Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 439 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #13141 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

I think you're on [to] something. So, I did a search on Amazon for A/V tar; unfortunately it's not listed...yet. Maybe I should check Monoprice. What quantity should I get for a VT65? Gotta get better blacks, whatever it takes.

Just make sure it's ISF certified tar. The non ISF kind is less neutral looking.
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post #13142 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post

I think you're on [to] something. So, I did a search on Amazon for A/V tar; unfortunately it's not listed...yet. Maybe I should check Monoprice. What quantity should I get for a VT65? Get better blacks, whatever it takes.
Well, I think it is still in beta phase. They still need to work on making it more transparent. The more I watch the more I realize all I see is black but man the blacks are sick! I just need to be able to see other colors. Wonder if they make tar in red blue and green? That might work without taking away from the black. Man the pop it will have.

Oh, and maybe a bright white. I will show those F8500's owners once and for all!
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post #13143 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Well, I think it is still in beta phase. They still need to work on making it more transparent. The more I watch the more I realize all I see is black but man the blacks are sick! I just need to be able to see other colors. Wonder if they make tar in red blue and green? That might work without taking away from the black. Man the pop it will have.
I'm no expert, but it sounds like it might be time to have the plasma gas recharged. Someone said the Geek Squad does a good job.

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post #13144 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by SeLfMaDe111985 View Post

I'm glad jokes are being made and I haven't posted here in a while. Can tell you guys get out a lot. Guess you have to bash someone in order to justify your purchase. wink.gif

can never tell tone when reading text. Anyway I figured it was another diabolical scheme by eric1336. Hats off to you sir. Btw the electrical tape didn't work so instead I put a beach all sized hole in it...now it's like I'm starting into a black vortex..sickest blacks I have ever seen

It's all in good fun and no one has trouble justifying their purchase(s) more than you do. When's the last time you saw the core group of posters on this thread regret their purchase, no regrets here and I bought in May. I think most of us wish we were like others who have two or three of these babies (ST/VT/ZT). If you started a poll you would find nearly all of us - including Dr. Evil (aka Diabolical or Eric) - want you to finally find bliss/peace/ISF tar blacks/colors that pop/quite fans/buzzless/no fractures/no bevel scratches/no dead pixels/no banding/no dithering/no phosphor trails/fans, what fans, with whatever you end up owning for a display. We are on your side and any time you feel like the TV gods don't love you search using Somelogin smile.gif
I have my fingers crossed on your ZT - peace out.
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post #13145 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 03:35 PM
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Went to mount my VT to my omnimount echo moda stand-- which fit my 50" panasonic perfectly-- and the damn mounting holes don't line up! I thought about taking it over to my grand dad's to use his drill press but decided against it as I was going to need to buy a new stand for the 50 anyways and decided I mine as we'll put that money towards a new stand. Am I glad I did: picked this little sweetheart up for less than half price at target of all places. I know we can't talk price but suffice to say this stand was barely 3 figures. Outstanding deal and went together fairly easily, super solid, and I especially like the adjustability of display mount (tilt and turn). It's manufactured by Z line. Pardon the mess as I just finished painting and was simply seeing how the set looked against this wall.

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post #13146 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post

Don't you mean Pixels per Inch or DPI ? Compare and contrast ...

* A 65" HD display has Pixels / Inch = 1920 px / 56 inches = 34.2 DPI
* A 30" 2560x1440 monitor is 2560 px / 23 inches = 111 DPI
* A 15" 2880x1800 Apple Retina display, with AR=1.6 = 16:10 = 2880 px / 12.7 inches = 226 DPI

Large displays have absolutely terribly low DPI, but they make it up in size ! That is, you can have: DPI, Size, or Lower-Price. Pick 2. ;-)

Edit: Specified px and inches units consistently.


The member was asking about comparing two specific panels -- a 65 inch 1920*1080 pixel matrix and a 50 inch 1366*768. Your post is totally irrelevant to his question. And for displays, pixels per inch are equivalent to dots per inch.

If you do the math, you will find that the individual pixel size for the 65 inch VT60 is about the same as that of the smaller 50 inch pixel size with its fewer total pixels.

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post #13147 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

SS, have you runned Klein Flicker Analysis to your VT60 to see how is the real refreshing rate for 24p or 60i signal?

No I have never seen the need. The K10-A adjusts automatically and is great in the full video range accuracy, with very solid repeatably readings.

ss
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post #13148 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 06:26 PM
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Honestly IMO the stupid jokes are getting tiresome. I'm here to comment on and learn more about my TV, not spend time watching people poke at each other. It's okay once in a while but seems excessive at the moment.
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post #13149 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Oh, and the electrical tape was for the actual screen. I had asked if it might be a good idea to use for better blacks then someone took it off topic and asked if they can use that for their trim. I don't have a problem with the trim, I removed the silver trim from my VT60 completely and now I don't have to worry about it's reflections. I actually ended using a butter knife to remove it. It came out okay.

As for the better blacks, I just ended up using tar. It is pretty dark and during the day I get absolutely no reflections. Even when the TV is on it still looks completely off. I am trying to calibrate it now with the panel set to high because it seems like I need more light output to penetrate the tar. It is still a work in progress but so far I have been more then pleased with the results. Every show I have watched so far has looked like a black slide. Just a little more brighter and I should almost be there!

I am having a hard time getting the tar smooth. It is kind of looking like how I put cold peanut butter on bread. Should I use a butter knife, a putty knife, or tar brush? But the colors are liquidy!

Has anyone tried using black licorice?

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post #13150 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Yeti1234 View Post

Honestly IMO the stupid jokes are getting tiresome. I'm here to comment on and learn more about my TV, not spend time watching people poke at each other. It's okay once in a while but seems excessive at the moment.
Personally I enjoy the stupid jokes. I never seem to get the smart jokes.

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post #13151 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:41 PM
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I wish some people would post pictures of the beautiful images on their VT60s. There is a whole thread where Kuro owners post gorgeous photos of their images. I see those photos and I drool. So if someone would post some images here of their VT60 images, that would even things out.

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post #13152 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Personally I enjoy the stupid jokes. I never seem to get the smart jokes.

Have you considered starting a new thread devoted to stupid jokes? They are truly inappropriate in this VT60 thread and add even more noise to the signal.

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post #13153 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:49 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Have you considered starting a new thread devoted to stupid jokes? They are truly inappropriate in this VT60 thread and add even more noise to the signal.

Larry

Apparently some people aren't here to have a good time, so yes I did start a new thread for comedy.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519161/humor-funny-stories-comedy-and-jokes

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post #13154 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

I wish some people would post pictures of the beautiful images on their VT60s. There is a whole thread where Kuro owners post gorgeous photos of their images. I see those photos and I drool. So if someone would post some images here of their VT60 images, that would even things out.
We all own the TV here, why do we need to see pictures?

Plus, seeing a picture of a TV is so inaccurate of the actual picture since there are so many variables between the actual picture on the TV to how you are seeing it, it would be worse then using someone else's settings. lol
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post #13155 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 08:44 PM
 
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I second XBR. It's a nice showcase of the dynamic range of the TVs (I know, also limited by the screen on which it is being viewed) if nothing else. If I ever get a decent cam, I will be doing the same for the ZT.
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post #13156 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

I wish some people would post pictures of the beautiful images on their VT60s. There is a whole thread where Kuro owners post gorgeous photos of their images. I see those photos and I drool. So if someone would post some images here of their VT60 images, that would even things out.
This 100%!

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post #13157 of 16725 Old 02-24-2014, 10:53 PM
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Hey! Which settings are preferred for gaming (PS3)?
I've messed around a bit with the RGB range while playing The Last of Us but I feel the picture either looks washed out or crushed.
Recommendations?
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post #13158 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

I wish some people would post pictures of the beautiful images on their VT60s. There is a whole thread where Kuro owners post gorgeous photos of their images. I see those photos and I drool. So if someone would post some images here of their VT60 images, that would even things out.

 

Here's a few I took the other night of my 65VT60, as mentioned above, pictures don't come close to doing it justice but since a few people requested it here ya go. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

PS....perhaps Eric can now see the blacks some of us are getting with no tar, tape or anything! lol

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post #13159 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 08:16 AM
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Nice shots CatchersDad.

This thread may be of interest to some as well.....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475972/official-panasonic-st-gt-vt-zt60-pictures-thread

Urga and the others who post do a very good job as far as photo accuracy. But unfortunately, the representation is only as good as the display you are using to view these threads.

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post #13160 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Nice shots CatchersDad.

This thread may be of interest to some as well.....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1475972/official-panasonic-st-gt-vt-zt60-pictures-thread

Urga and the others who post do a very good job as far as photo accuracy. But unfortunately, the representation is only as good as the display you are using to view these threads.

 

Very true dsskid, forgot to mention that and it's also very hard to get good clear shots of a moving image in the dark on a TV unless you have an equally good camera, which I do not. 

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post #13161 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by dsskid View Post

Urga and the others who post do a very good job as far as photo accuracy. But unfortunately, the representation is only as good as the display you are using to view these threads.
EXACTLY, I've never understood the intent of showing pictures like this unless you're using them to show a specific flaw you're exhibiting, they're worthless to anyone since they're being displayed on your monitor/tablet/smartphone screen
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post #13162 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 08:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Have you considered starting a new thread devoted to stupid jokes? They are truly inappropriate in this VT60 thread and add even more noise to the signal.

Larry

Quote:
Originally Posted by XBR11 View Post

Apparently some people aren't here to have a good time, so yes I did start a new thread for comedy.

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1519161/humor-funny-stories-comedy-and-jokes
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it's not that they don't "appreciate it" it's that there's just no reason to have them in this thread, its one thing to occasionally take a pot shot at another user that's off base, but come on, what possible interest was your series of irrelevant comments on things like battery country origins? head over to OT or another thread, they weren't even amusing, and I'd like to think I've got a pretty good sense of humor.
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post #13163 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by CatchersDad View Post

Very true dsskid, forgot to mention that and it's also very hard to get good clear shots of a moving image in the dark on a TV unless you have an equally good camera, which I do not. 
You posted nice shots nonetheless.
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post #13164 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

The member was asking about comparing two specific panels -- a 65 inch 1920*1080 pixel matrix and a 50 inch 1366*768. Your post is totally irrelevant to his question. And for displays, pixels per inch are equivalent to dots per inch.

If you do the math, you will find that the individual pixel size for the 65 inch VT60 is about the same as that of the smaller 50 inch pixel size with its fewer total pixels.

Larry

I'm quite well aware that PPI and DPI are equivalent for digital displays.

For the past 30 years I've been doing graphics programming and graphic design These days I care about 1/16 sub-pixel placement @ ~96 DPI for icons and fonts so I am extremely sensitive to DPI. Back then I started with a resolution of 280 x 192 pixels on a 12" screen. Even a half pixel mattered for monochrome fonts.

In my professional experience and opinion inch / per pixel is totally irrelevant. Dot pitch is an archaic metric -- when you have 3+ Megapixels displays small minute changes are too hard to compare. One of the easiest, fastest, and accurate ways to compare PQ is to examine DPI.

I have a 27" 2560 x 1440 and a 27" 1920 x 1080 monitor. Same diagonal size yet the DPI is significantly different and I find the 1080p one to be vastly inferior to the 1440p.

* 1440p = 108 DPI
* 1080p = 81 DPI

Let's do the math as you suggest:

65 * sin( atan( 1920/1080 ) ) = 56.65" width ::: 33.89 DPI
50 * sin( atan( 1366 / 768 ) ) = 43.58" width ::: 31.34 DPI

So that's only +/- 2 DPI. Big deal, right?

Considering the fact that our eyes can easily resolve between 300 and 1200 DPI small relative changes in the extremely low side of DPI _may_ look vastly different for the user. I don't know how good his eyes are. Do you?

Upgrading from the 50" to the 65" is a good upgrade for a number of reasons:

* I have always found resolution to be more important then size as that bumps up the DPI.
* The larger display has a slightly sharper DPI; it is important not to _lose_ DPI, IMHO <--
* The increased resolution is also good.
* Lastly the screen size will be much appreciated.

I was simply pointing out one needs to consider multiple perspectives in order to judge the PQ. IF the DPI went _down_ then I would be leery of "upgrading".

Lastly, for analogy: It is like comparing 30 fps, 60 fps, and 120 fps. Just because some people can't tell the difference between 30 Hz and 60 Hz does not imply there is no difference. There is a huge quality difference between all three.

What is _your_ experience that justifies DPI being an irrelevant metric???

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post #13165 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:04 AM
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EXACTLY, I've never understood the intent of showing pictures like this unless you're using them to show a specific flaw you're exhibiting, they're worthless to anyone since they're being displayed on your monitor/tablet/smartphone screen

Well, pride, excitement in their new display? No harm.

Actually, if you view the pictures of various displays, on the same monitor, you can catch subtle differences between displays, and the dynamic contrast and pop tends to come through.

Not stating 100% accurate, but nice to look at regardless.

Hell of a lot more enjoyable than complaining, arguing and endless debating.

After all....it's just TV.
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post #13166 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
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EXACTLY, I've never understood the intent of showing pictures like this unless you're using them to show a specific flaw you're exhibiting, they're worthless to anyone since they're being displayed on your monitor/tablet/smartphone screen

 

Not to mention the photos are highly compressed jpgs of 1080i OTA source material. None of the ones I posted are over 300 kb which is a very small image file for a 1000 pixel wide image. So if you think these photos look good on whatever you are looking at them on, just imagine what one of these things looks like in real life from a good 1080p source!

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post #13167 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:12 AM
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Well, pride, excitement in their new display? No harm.

Actually, if you view the pictures of various displays, on the same monitor, you can catch subtle differences between displays, and the dynamic contrast and pop tends to come through.

Not stating 100% accurate, but nice to look at regardless.

Hell of a lot more enjoyable than complaining, arguing and endless debating.

After all....it's just TV.

 

True, especially if the photographer used the same camera on the same settings under the same conditions to take the photos of different panels and then compressed them for internet viewing with the same software settings.

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post #13168 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
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We all own the TV here, why do we need to see pictures?

There are a few reasons:

Before I had my 60" and 42" plasmas I would constantly be amazed at Rich's (and other) gorgeous shots.

It helps inspire those of us to take better pictures.

It helps show us where the bar is.

Because it is important for those who _don't_ own a plasma. Think of it as "Free Marketing" ;-)

This is a perfect example -- I would love to have that marketing wallpaper !


Now as to whether pictures should be in here or in another thread, I'll leave that to the admins to decide. Do they go in a pictures-thread or the model-thread? Both? That is a meta problem with tagging.

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post #13169 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:22 AM
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I hate when they make tv's with stands that rely on the outer edges of the set for stability - don't they realize how hard it is to get a decent tv stand that's wide enough for the bigger sizes?
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post #13170 of 16725 Old 02-25-2014, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post

There are a few reasons:

Before I had my 60" and 42" plasmas I would constantly be amazed at Rich's (and other) gorgeous shots.

It helps inspire those of us to take better pictures.

It helps show us where the bar is.

Because it is important for those who _don't_ own a plasma. Think of it as "Free Marketing" ;-)

Now as to whether pictures should be in here or in another thread, I'll leave that to the admins to decide. Do they go in a pictures-thread or the model-thread? Both? That is a meta problem with tagging.
I don't mind pictures being posted in here, I just don't think it really represents the actual picture that you would see in person. I have looked through the picture threads here and they are very misleading. You look at some of those pictures and you would think they were OLED's which clearly is not the case in person. Then you get those people wondering why their TV's black levels don't look as good as the persons TV who is posting the pics.
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