Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 442 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13231 of 16437 Old 02-27-2014, 06:29 PM
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Hi.i had my vt60 for liker 6 months now and i ran avs hd 709 and went tru the basic on the disc,brightness etc,but when i come to colur the tint was way out i had to put tint on +6 and colour on 54 and i think that tint should be set right out of the box as my others plasmas have been.no vivid colour or etc is on and colour gamut is rec 709.i dont know why tint is so fare out?

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post #13232 of 16437 Old 02-27-2014, 06:42 PM
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That is not an accurate way to adjust color you need a meter to do it correctly

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post #13233 of 16437 Old 02-27-2014, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That is not an accurate way to adjust color you need a meter to do it correctly

yea i know a meter is better but why should hd 709 setting tint så high when on my other plasma tvs my tint was always 0,and it should get me in a ball park with avs hd 709.i have used this disc on many tvs also led and tint has always been at 0 but not on my vt60 and i think that its strange.iam using professional mode1.and when i use thx cinema then tint is at +3.and could all of you who have vt60 to test the hd 709 disc on tint and see if you have to make any adjusment to tint,i think you should not.

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post #13234 of 16437 Old 02-27-2014, 07:20 PM
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Blue filters are not accurate period . Put it in thx mode adjust contrast and brightness and leave it alone

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post #13235 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

No ghosting on mine. I do however see fluctuations in brightness that's really distracting. If there is a scene with black in it it will change to grey for a second and then back to black. Not looking forward to watching Gravity 3D.

I have noticed this on three different blu-ray's:

Pacific Rim
Ender's Game
Thor: TDW

It only happened once or twice the entire film but is very distracting. It is like the "flucuating brightness" issue the st30's had. Anybody else have this problem. I need to check, but I believe i have the tv set to 96hz, could that be the issue?
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post #13236 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mean Gene View Post

I have noticed this on three different blu-ray's:

Pacific Rim
Ender's Game
Thor: TDW

It only happened once or twice the entire film but is very distracting. It is like the "flucuating brightness" issue the st30's had. Anybody else have this problem. I need to check, but I believe i have the tv set to 96hz, could that be the issue?

Mine also has the brightness pops in 3D every few seconds or so. I also have a fair amount of ghosting. I've messed with the 3D settings, but can't cure these issues. Currently running in 96HZ.The 3D on my VT20 & ST30 seems to be better.
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post #13237 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.
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post #13238 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.

You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I'm linking your theories there for the others to see.

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post #13239 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.

You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I'm linking your theories there for the others to see.

NativeGamut.zip 7k .zip file
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD, post: 20401236, member: 545755 
You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I do not believe that. You are categorically wrong about that. If you had paid attention to my post you would have noticed that I said I would prefer not to estimate measurements from the charts. The reason I would prefer not to do that is because that would not yield an accurate answer. However, in the absence of your data, you were leaving me no better choice. I am glad you have now (apparently) supplied the data and I thank you for that. It is a great pity, though, that it has been such a struggle to get it from you.

As I have emphasized before, I do not necessarily doubt your result. The importance of the data is that it may provide further interesting information beyond that in your earlier posts.

All I have been doing all along is asking for information. You are not linking to "theories", because I am not entertaining any "theories" at this point. Up until now you seem to have held the absurd opinion that you can just press some buttons and out pops a number and that is the end of the matter - you have thereby refuted Panasonic's marketing. In my opinion, if you are going to try to debunk the marketing - which may well be nonsense - you would do well to take a little more care than that.
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post #13240 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 08:27 AM
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So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

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post #13241 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

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post #13242 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

You are becoming far too emotional about this. I am not trying to rubbish your results, or support Panasonic's statement or personally discredit you.

This is all about looking more closely at the results you have in an effort to discover more about why the figure you have is 72% and not 98%.

And, btw, I have never said I believe the 98% claim. I have no idea where you got that idea from. To remind you, I wrote:

"Perhaps Panasonic use a perfectly acceptable alternative method of calculation and their figure is correct, too."

Notice the word "perhaps". It indicates uncertainty and makes a huge difference to the meaning of that sentence.

And thank you again for the data. I've had a quick glance at the file and my initial impression is that I may be able to do something useful with it. I will have another closer look at it when I'm next at my desktop computer.
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post #13243 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

I respect your graphic design interests and using the VT60 for that purpose - but nearly 99.9% of us do not use are displays for such content - jpgs. So out of curiosity what is the point of the 2 jpgs you posted and the error that will be present on the VT.. Thanks.

P.S. Because of that lower DCI coverage I am sending back my VT even though Gravity looked spectacular on it last night rolleyes.gif

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post #13244 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

Hello, I have display various Color Reproduction Patterns from my Calibration Disk and many others to various EU Plasma models the last 5 years.

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post #13245 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

You are becoming far too emotional about this. I am not trying to rubbish your results, or support Panasonic's statement or personally discredit you.

This is all about looking more closely at the results you have in an effort to discover more about why the figure you have is 72% and not 98%.

And, btw, I have never said I believe the 98% claim. I have no idea where you got that idea from. To remind you, I wrote:

"Perhaps Panasonic use a perfectly acceptable alternative method of calculation and their figure is correct, too."

Notice the word "perhaps". It indicates uncertainty and makes a huge difference to the meaning of that sentence.

And thank you again for the data. I've had a quick glance at the file and my initial impression is that I may be able to do something useful with it. I will have another closer look at it when I'm next at my desktop computer.

That's why It's used a Reference Lab Grade Spectro (JETI 1211 - 11.000$) and Pro software to prove that is bs.

How Panasonic is measuring the coverage?

It reminds me the way they measuring the 6.000.000:1 Contrast Ratio they advertise that is truly bs too.

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post #13246 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I respect your graphic design interests and using the VT60 for that purpose - but nearly 99.9% of us do not use are displays for such content - jpgs. So out of curiosity what is the point of the 2 jpgs you posted and the error that will be present on the VT.. Thanks.

Yeah I knew the instant I posted that -someone- would try to make a pseudo claim that those aren't representative of "real-world" usage.

There are 3 points to consider ...

1. We can't even display lossless pictures such as .PNG or .TGA natively with the built-in firmware so .JPGs were used and saved with 100% Quality.

2. IIRC the YUV transencoding of the 8x8 macro blocks used in JPEG or MPEG are similar enough that the accuracy IS representative -- it doesn't matter if the content is a still image or moving pictures to stress test the PQ. Any other graphic programmers around here to confirm / deny?

3. The second radial gradient WAS inspired from actual content. I was watching this:

* http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/comcast-to-acquire-time-warner-cable-143000745.html

and noticed the horrible Mach Banding. I took a screenshot and converted it to .JPG to see how good (or bad) the Panny could display it.

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/yahoo_comcast_merger.jpg

There are tons of "special effects" being done in the grossly inadequate 8-bit / color channel (24-bit color, technically 32-bit with alpha) color depth instead of a proper 16-bit / color channel (48-bit -- technically 64-bit with alpha). Considering one of my 27" IPS monitors displays that yahoo_comcast_merger.jpg with less Mach Banding _inspite_ of the MPEG / JPEG quantization errors present I believe it IS fair to compare the PQ of a Plasma and Other displays. Think of it this way: The beauty is if we can get these "worse case" images to display properly imagine how good everything else looks !

I love my 60" VT60 as much as the next guy (last night I loved the opening panoramic shots of "The Shining"!) I just want the to understand the _limitations_ of the plasma display, see which ones are _still_ around from when I bought my 42" panny 10 years ago, how to work around the issues, and get the best picture possible. Posting screenshots that everyone can provide their collective wisdom is a good starting point. Sticking our head in the sand ignoring the problem does not make it go away.

THAT was the point, er, points. :-)

Edit.1 Added note about alpha channel

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post #13247 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 12:41 PM
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Hi,

I got a new 65VT60 two weeks ago. I have noticed along the left hand side of the screen a lighter band that can be seen at all times. Does anyone have any ideas of what the issue might be? The pic does not show it the best, it looks worse in person, especially on dark scenes.
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post #13248 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 12:42 PM
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So it was something streamed? No puesdo claim from me, I was wonderong how long it would take someone to say that about my question smile.gif

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Hi,

I got a new 65VT60 two weeks ago. I have noticed along the left hand side of the screen a lighter band that can been seen at all times. Does anyone have any ideas of what the issue might be? The pic does not show it the best, it look worse in person, especially on dark sence.
Selfmade's got your numba'. (he had the same....dumped his VT for a ZT with sep'ration anxiety wink.gif)
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post #13250 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 01:04 PM
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Hello, I have display various Color Reproduction Patterns from my Calibration Disk and many others to various EU Plasma models the last 5 years.

Wow. Absolutely beautiful work ! Very, very nice.
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post #13251 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 03:36 PM
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Thanks, Larry.


David,

Just to add a bit more to the drift situation of the VT60 series. The grayscale curves that I showed a day or so ago used absolute 'Y' and the CIE2000 method to calculate the deltaE values. In the following charts, I used absolute 'Y' values but this time CIE94 which is more widely used by the professional calibrators. (I could have used gamma result in an relative manner to make the charts look really great but I decided to stay with the historical methodology. That's the basic reason of this post.)

just under 100 hours



just over 300 hours



slightly over 1000 hours





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post #13252 of 16437 Old 02-28-2014, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.


This is all about looking more closely at the results you have in an effort to discover more about why the figure you have is 72% and not 98%.



Here are the results. Time to drop the speculation. The VT60 exceeds Rec.709 by a little in Green and Red, but barely makes it in Blue. As far as DCI P3, not even close. Read the number at the bottom.

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post #13253 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 01:43 AM
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@buzzard

Hi. Thank you very much for that.

I wonder if you mind revealing some of the TV settings you used (picture mode, advanced settings etc.). There are a lot of settings, so it would be unreasonable to request the full list. But if you could provide a subset, that would be really nice, thanks.
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post #13254 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 03:22 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Here are the results. Time to drop the speculation. The VT60 exceeds Rec.709 by a little in Green and Red, but barely makes it in Blue. As far as DCI P3, not even close. Read the number at the bottom.

Hey Buzz, did you measured the native gamut, without touching any CMS, K-10A Profiled from i1PRO1 right?

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post #13255 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 03:28 AM
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Here are my readings on a 9261 point Profile for both 709 and P3 using same profile I used a K10-A and a Jeti 1211.





ss
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post #13256 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 03:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here are my readings on a 9261 point Profile for both 709 and P3 using same profile I used a K10-A and a Jeti 1211.

ss

Yeah, this is exactly the actual coverage, since you measured a full cube of a display, to know better with more color point measuring the best view of the capabilities of the display and present a more precisely coverage number.

Just there was not enough time to measure a full cube from ST60/VT60/ZT60, so I did a Quick Profiling. wink.gif

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post #13257 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Here are the results. Time to drop the speculation. The VT60 exceeds Rec.709 by a little in Green and Red, but barely makes it in Blue. As far as DCI P3, not even close. Read the number at the bottom.

Hey Buzz, did you measured the native gamut, without touching any CMS, K-10A Profiled from i1PRO1 right?

Correct. The VT60 is a consumer panel and I don't see what the big deal is all about. If you're a professional studio or post facility dealing with P3 you'll be using a display designed for the purpose. What is nice is that the VT60 reaches Rec.709. The 99% that sillysally (that's what I get too) reports is more like 99.999% rounded down. LightSpace will not ever show 100% that I know of.
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post #13258 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 07:59 AM
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Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

@buzzard

Hi. Thank you very much for that.

I wonder if you mind revealing some of the TV settings you used (picture mode, advanced settings etc.). There are a lot of settings, so it would be unreasonable to request the full list. But if you could provide a subset, that would be really nice, thanks.

The settings, except for the selection of Native Gamut, don't mean much. In the 1st graphic below, the outer points (circles) represent the VT60 Native capability. The second graphic is the same thing as produced by a different software and the 3rd is Native vs DCI P3.

On another note, peeps are always using the description "like looking out a window". Well, the real world window is the entire colored area in the two dimensional CIE chart and a TV obviously can't cover it nor do we need it. Our VT60's are among the very best consumer displays produced so far so enjoy.





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post #13259 of 16437 Old 03-01-2014, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Blue filters are not accurate period . Put it in thx mode adjust contrast and brightness and leave it alone

OK.i use professinal1.
Contrast-60
brightness-+8
colour-50
tint-0
sharpness-0
colour temp-warm
gamma-2.4

i think gamma at 2.2 looks a littel washed out and find 2.4 better.
contrast i dont know how to use it would not blend or show any colour shifting so i leave it at 60.

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post #13260 of 16437 Old 03-02-2014, 12:33 AM
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Just thought I'd pop in to say that I tested out the S&V 3D settings and found them not as good as the default THX Cinema 3D mode. Guess I'll leave it at that until I get a pro calibration. Man this TV is really starting to come in to its own. Using SS settings I'm just astounded at the PQ. I've used this setting for 360 gaming also and looks amazing. I gamed for over 2 hours last night (The Witcher 2) and had no image retention/burn in at all. Pixel orbiter turned to on.

For me, this set is killing my 8th gen Kuro. 65" vs 50" helps but it owns it in motion, black level and detail.
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