Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 442 - AVS Forum
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post #13231 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 11:18 AM
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I recently had my set calibrated by DeNice and it made a SIGNIFICANT improvement - both in brightness of the set and color accuracy. I still wish the set was a tad brighter during daytime viewing put putting it in Night ISF mode for watching a movie is perfection. The set was calibrated at about 300 hours and I did nothing other than watch normal content during the first 300 hours.

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post #13232 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 11:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

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Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

Well, when there's an 'official thread' for a given product it's hard to gauge what isn't or isn't "suitable" for discussing in it.

At a certain point it's good to branch stuff off onto different threads of their own. I think most folks would agree that the 'product' thread for an item isn't always the best place to wander off into the minutiae of details regarding stuff like calibration and stuff. Not that they aren't worth discussing, it's fascinating stuff. But it does tend to add a level of 'noise' that might not be all that welcome in the 'product' thread.

Me, I don't particularly care about the calibration stuff. Yeah, it's useful and some folks really do seem to be wow'ed by the outcome. But given it's just TV? Meh, I don't really care about how perfectly the colors look. I care more about whether or not there's artifacts that interrupt the overall viewing.

Poor calibration is going to potentially contribute to seeing more artifacts, banding, etc. I see posts like this all of the time.

Wouldn't it also be kind of nice to see colors the way they were meant to be seen especially given this is a reference quality display? If not, you might just have well purchased a Vizio or Insignia LED and saved a lot of money, but that's just my opinion. smile.gif I never understood the logic of buying an enthusiast display and not getting the best of it.

agree with everything said. Just thought I'd mention that I was a 'healthy' skeptic of the benefits of a good calibrator at one point myself. I suspect if he had a visit from buzz, chad, dewayne, etc he'd likely start singing the same songs we are smile.gif
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post #13233 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 12:32 PM
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I did a factory reset of my tv yesterday and put it in custom mode, and i have a feeling that the blurry faces on 50hz content has improved. got fi set to low, all other stuff off. no idea if it is a placebo effect but who knows...
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post #13234 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jugger View Post

Can some of you comment on how hot the back of your TVs are on the left and right side between and near the fans. Both of my 65vt60s are too hot to touch after a few hours of being on. This seams odd to me and concerning as I wonder how hot the components are inside the unit.

Thanks

Mine gets pretty hot as well. I even checked to make sure the fans were running. Nearing hotness of not being able to keep hand on back of set.

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post #13235 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 01:02 PM
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Quick ? for some of the more knowledgable peeps in here regarding technical specs. Anybody know what is the native bitdepth of the VT60 line (and possibly the ZT60/ST60/S60)? I ask because I've been playing with some of the new options out of MadVR (video renderer) on my HTPC as it allows you to select the bitdepth to more easily notice different dithering algorithms. The default has always been 8-bit, and I only begin to notice dithering changes at 6-bit and that peaked my curiosity.

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post #13236 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by MCF34 View Post

Mine gets pretty hot as well. I even checked to make sure the fans were running. Nearing hotness of not being able to keep hand on back of set.

Thanks for the feedback. Seems to be a mixed bag with some people very hot and others not so much. I posted the question somewhere and recieved the same mixed answers. I wonder if it has to do with the brightness settings of the TV or elevation of we're you live? My fans are also running but not on max.

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post #13237 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 03:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Thanks, Larry. Any data up to the 1000 and 2000 hour points?

David,

At about 1000 hours I put back the original 60VT60 calibration settings and here is the result. You csn see that things changed very slightly but hardly enough to matter since the deltaE remained below 2-3 which is the limit of visual perception for video.

slightly over 1000 hours



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post #13238 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 04:03 PM
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Thanks, Larry.

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post #13239 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

ss,

Please stop stalking me.

Larry

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Stalking you. ?????????rolleyes.gif

Here was my post that I guess you took issues with, note its not directed at you. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/13170#post_24408758

Here is your post that I guess you took issue with me and that would seem that your are stalking me. http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/13170#post_24408807
rolleyes.gif

Larry that is a very serous accusation you are making, please remove or show just cause for that post.




Whoa. This caught even me by surprise and I hope we can move on as I have been able to learn quite a few things from both of you over the last couple of months. I mostly frequent this thread because of your threads (including buzzards) and not the childish bullying that's been the norm here lately. I almost called it quits a short time back and your timely knowledgeable and technical posts were what pulled me back.

Let's call this a minor dust up/ misunderstanding and move on okay?
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post #13240 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 06:29 PM
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Hi.i had my vt60 for liker 6 months now and i ran avs hd 709 and went tru the basic on the disc,brightness etc,but when i come to colur the tint was way out i had to put tint on +6 and colour on 54 and i think that tint should be set right out of the box as my others plasmas have been.no vivid colour or etc is on and colour gamut is rec 709.i dont know why tint is so fare out?

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post #13241 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 06:42 PM
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That is not an accurate way to adjust color you need a meter to do it correctly

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post #13242 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That is not an accurate way to adjust color you need a meter to do it correctly

yea i know a meter is better but why should hd 709 setting tint så high when on my other plasma tvs my tint was always 0,and it should get me in a ball park with avs hd 709.i have used this disc on many tvs also led and tint has always been at 0 but not on my vt60 and i think that its strange.iam using professional mode1.and when i use thx cinema then tint is at +3.and could all of you who have vt60 to test the hd 709 disc on tint and see if you have to make any adjusment to tint,i think you should not.

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post #13243 of 15568 Old 02-27-2014, 07:20 PM
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Blue filters are not accurate period . Put it in thx mode adjust contrast and brightness and leave it alone

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post #13244 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

No ghosting on mine. I do however see fluctuations in brightness that's really distracting. If there is a scene with black in it it will change to grey for a second and then back to black. Not looking forward to watching Gravity 3D.

I have noticed this on three different blu-ray's:

Pacific Rim
Ender's Game
Thor: TDW

It only happened once or twice the entire film but is very distracting. It is like the "flucuating brightness" issue the st30's had. Anybody else have this problem. I need to check, but I believe i have the tv set to 96hz, could that be the issue?
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post #13245 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Mean Gene View Post

I have noticed this on three different blu-ray's:

Pacific Rim
Ender's Game
Thor: TDW

It only happened once or twice the entire film but is very distracting. It is like the "flucuating brightness" issue the st30's had. Anybody else have this problem. I need to check, but I believe i have the tv set to 96hz, could that be the issue?

Mine also has the brightness pops in 3D every few seconds or so. I also have a fair amount of ghosting. I've messed with the 3D settings, but can't cure these issues. Currently running in 96HZ.The 3D on my VT20 & ST30 seems to be better.
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post #13246 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 07:34 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.
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post #13247 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 07:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.

You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I'm linking your theories there for the others to see.

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post #13248 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post



Is that true? DCI 98% Coverage from a Panasonic ZT60/VT60 Consumer Display? or it's 100% marketing BS? Lets see.... wink.gif

Panasonic Consumer xx60 Series DCI / REC 709 Comparison Test.

In the name of science (the "S" in "AVS"), I am going to ask you again to provide the measurement data upon which that calculation is based. If forced to, I will estimate the measurements from the chromaticity charts in your post. I would prefer not to do that.

Thank you.

You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I'm linking your theories there for the others to see.

NativeGamut.zip 7k .zip file
Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD, post: 20401236, member: 545755 
You are missing some basic/required understanding about color science about how things works, since you believe that you will able to find the coverage area by comparing 2 CIE Pictures.

I do not believe that. You are categorically wrong about that. If you had paid attention to my post you would have noticed that I said I would prefer not to estimate measurements from the charts. The reason I would prefer not to do that is because that would not yield an accurate answer. However, in the absence of your data, you were leaving me no better choice. I am glad you have now (apparently) supplied the data and I thank you for that. It is a great pity, though, that it has been such a struggle to get it from you.

As I have emphasized before, I do not necessarily doubt your result. The importance of the data is that it may provide further interesting information beyond that in your earlier posts.

All I have been doing all along is asking for information. You are not linking to "theories", because I am not entertaining any "theories" at this point. Up until now you seem to have held the absurd opinion that you can just press some buttons and out pops a number and that is the end of the matter - you have thereby refuted Panasonic's marketing. In my opinion, if you are going to try to debunk the marketing - which may well be nonsense - you would do well to take a little more care than that.
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post #13249 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 08:27 AM
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So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

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post #13250 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 09:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

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post #13251 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

You are becoming far too emotional about this. I am not trying to rubbish your results, or support Panasonic's statement or personally discredit you.

This is all about looking more closely at the results you have in an effort to discover more about why the figure you have is 72% and not 98%.

And, btw, I have never said I believe the 98% claim. I have no idea where you got that idea from. To remind you, I wrote:

"Perhaps Panasonic use a perfectly acceptable alternative method of calculation and their figure is correct, too."

Notice the word "perhaps". It indicates uncertainty and makes a huge difference to the meaning of that sentence.

And thank you again for the data. I've had a quick glance at the file and my initial impression is that I may be able to do something useful with it. I will have another closer look at it when I'm next at my desktop computer.
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post #13252 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post

Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

I respect your graphic design interests and using the VT60 for that purpose - but nearly 99.9% of us do not use are displays for such content - jpgs. So out of curiosity what is the point of the 2 jpgs you posted and the error that will be present on the VT.. Thanks.

P.S. Because of that lower DCI coverage I am sending back my VT even though Gravity looked spectacular on it last night rolleyes.gif

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post #13253 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by _Michaelangelo_ View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

Yeah I'm also calling shenanigans on the Panasonic's PQ Marketing.

Proof: Display these on your Plasma ....

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_gradient.jpg
* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/blue_white_radial_gradient.jpg

Hello, I have display various Color Reproduction Patterns from my Calibration Disk and many others to various EU Plasma models the last 5 years.

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post #13254 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

So my results meant nothing to you and you still believe that Panasonic VT/ZT60 has 98% DCI P3 Coverage? Send us your own measurements to see, until that, yes, I'm correct, the Panasonic is bs with fake marketing.

You are becoming far too emotional about this. I am not trying to rubbish your results, or support Panasonic's statement or personally discredit you.

This is all about looking more closely at the results you have in an effort to discover more about why the figure you have is 72% and not 98%.

And, btw, I have never said I believe the 98% claim. I have no idea where you got that idea from. To remind you, I wrote:

"Perhaps Panasonic use a perfectly acceptable alternative method of calculation and their figure is correct, too."

Notice the word "perhaps". It indicates uncertainty and makes a huge difference to the meaning of that sentence.

And thank you again for the data. I've had a quick glance at the file and my initial impression is that I may be able to do something useful with it. I will have another closer look at it when I'm next at my desktop computer.

That's why It's used a Reference Lab Grade Spectro (JETI 1211 - 11.000$) and Pro software to prove that is bs.

How Panasonic is measuring the coverage?

It reminds me the way they measuring the 6.000.000:1 Contrast Ratio they advertise that is truly bs too.

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post #13255 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 12:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

I respect your graphic design interests and using the VT60 for that purpose - but nearly 99.9% of us do not use are displays for such content - jpgs. So out of curiosity what is the point of the 2 jpgs you posted and the error that will be present on the VT.. Thanks.

Yeah I knew the instant I posted that -someone- would try to make a pseudo claim that those aren't representative of "real-world" usage.

There are 3 points to consider ...

1. We can't even display lossless pictures such as .PNG or .TGA natively with the built-in firmware so .JPGs were used and saved with 100% Quality.

2. IIRC the YUV transencoding of the 8x8 macro blocks used in JPEG or MPEG are similar enough that the accuracy IS representative -- it doesn't matter if the content is a still image or moving pictures to stress test the PQ. Any other graphic programmers around here to confirm / deny?

3. The second radial gradient WAS inspired from actual content. I was watching this:

* http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/comcast-to-acquire-time-warner-cable-143000745.html

and noticed the horrible Mach Banding. I took a screenshot and converted it to .JPG to see how good (or bad) the Panny could display it.

* http://michael.peopleofhonoronly.com/plasma_calibration/yahoo_comcast_merger.jpg

There are tons of "special effects" being done in the grossly inadequate 8-bit / color channel (24-bit color, technically 32-bit with alpha) color depth instead of a proper 16-bit / color channel (48-bit -- technically 64-bit with alpha). Considering one of my 27" IPS monitors displays that yahoo_comcast_merger.jpg with less Mach Banding _inspite_ of the MPEG / JPEG quantization errors present I believe it IS fair to compare the PQ of a Plasma and Other displays. Think of it this way: The beauty is if we can get these "worse case" images to display properly imagine how good everything else looks !

I love my 60" VT60 as much as the next guy (last night I loved the opening panoramic shots of "The Shining"!) I just want the to understand the _limitations_ of the plasma display, see which ones are _still_ around from when I bought my 42" panny 10 years ago, how to work around the issues, and get the best picture possible. Posting screenshots that everyone can provide their collective wisdom is a good starting point. Sticking our head in the sand ignoring the problem does not make it go away.

THAT was the point, er, points. :-)

Edit.1 Added note about alpha channel

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post #13256 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 12:41 PM
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Hi,

I got a new 65VT60 two weeks ago. I have noticed along the left hand side of the screen a lighter band that can be seen at all times. Does anyone have any ideas of what the issue might be? The pic does not show it the best, it looks worse in person, especially on dark scenes.
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post #13257 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 12:42 PM
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So it was something streamed? No puesdo claim from me, I was wonderong how long it would take someone to say that about my question smile.gif

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post #13258 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 12:51 PM
 
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Originally Posted by charwood1111 View Post

Hi,

I got a new 65VT60 two weeks ago. I have noticed along the left hand side of the screen a lighter band that can been seen at all times. Does anyone have any ideas of what the issue might be? The pic does not show it the best, it look worse in person, especially on dark sence.
Selfmade's got your numba'. (he had the same....dumped his VT for a ZT with sep'ration anxiety wink.gif)
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post #13259 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post

Hello, I have display various Color Reproduction Patterns from my Calibration Disk and many others to various EU Plasma models the last 5 years.

Wow. Absolutely beautiful work ! Very, very nice.
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post #13260 of 15568 Old 02-28-2014, 03:36 PM
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Thanks, Larry.


David,

Just to add a bit more to the drift situation of the VT60 series. The grayscale curves that I showed a day or so ago used absolute 'Y' and the CIE2000 method to calculate the deltaE values. In the following charts, I used absolute 'Y' values but this time CIE94 which is more widely used by the professional calibrators. (I could have used gamma result in an relative manner to make the charts look really great but I decided to stay with the historical methodology. That's the basic reason of this post.)

just under 100 hours



just over 300 hours



slightly over 1000 hours





Larry
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