Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 451 - AVS Forum
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post #13501 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I was skeptical too but I trust Chad's measurements, granted not a Klein 10 but the i1d3 is certainly capable of readings that low, and I can only surmise the 96hz reading would be even better. I have nothing to compare it to except my ST60, subjectively the blacks are signficantly deeper to my eye and we know the ST weighs in about .0016 in 96hz mode. Chad did say he has measured one other 65" display with similar hours at that level.


.....Which begs the question as to why you didn't have him measure 96hz. I'm assuming maybe you run out of time or thought you'd be borderline kidnapping him if you'd kept him any longer.... biggrin.gif
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post #13502 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 03:38 PM
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So here is my question, on Xbox one and ps4 that support the full range RGB options, should I enable that on my vt60 and Xbox? Also is there any other similar options that I can enable for those inputs that usually are advised to be off? Thanks
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post #13503 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

.....Which begs the question as to why you didn't have him measure 96hz. I'm assuming maybe you run out of time or thought you'd be borderline kidnapping him if you'd kept him any longer.... biggrin.gif

Didn't think to ask honestly, he had spent a lot of time on my set including some extra gamma measurements for my curiosity. We didn't use 96hz for either mode so would have required him re-synching the meter.

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post #13504 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:12 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Didn't think to ask honestly, he had spent a lot of time on my set including some extra gamma measurements for my curiosity. We didn't use 96hz for either mode so would have required him re-synching the meter.

did u guys do a full 101 pt GS run to actually see what is really going on with the Gamma ?

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post #13505 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:15 PM
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Yes but I will let Chad speak to that, we did see some issues in the 90 to 100 area. I don't have those reports, Chad might share them if he is so inclined.

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post #13506 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Jumbo Jet View Post

Had an amazingly informative day with Barry from Orlando Digital TV in Orlando, FL last Saturday. Made an appointment with Barry to calibrate my new 60" VT60 and fine tune my new 5.1 system. Barry was great, he spent 6 hours at my house, answering all of my questions, getting scientific and nerdy with me. I had a blast and learned so much from him. We spent hours going through the VT60 and fine tuning every setting. He even took the time to properly set up my PS3, Apple TV and UVerse box. He spent the time and made sure everything was correct. I really appreciated his impeccable attention to detail.

The latter part of the day was properly tuning my new 5.1 system which consists of :

Marantz 1504
NHT Absolute Zero - fronts
NHT TwoC Center
NHT B-10d - sub
Polk Audio RC60i - in ceiling rears

I was breaking the tv in on"THX Cinema" and thought that it looked pretty damn good. But I wanted peace of mind knowing that my VT60 was looking the best that it possibly could. Barry locked my new settings in on Professional 1. The picture is stunning. Colors are so natural, and things just seem to pop. Black levels are insane. We watched the Star Wars marathon last week and I couldn't get over just how black space looked. Blue Rays are phenomenal. We had movie night and watched Elysium with Matt Damon. Again, the space scenes were breathtaking and the picture was so sharp and accurate. Audio was beautiful, dialog was crystal clear from the TwoC Center, I finally had great separation from the fronts and the b10-d was shaking the house.

The years of knowledge that Barry shared with me in those 6 short hours was so well appreciated. I took in as much as I could and had a great time. I highly recommend an ISF calibration for anyone with a VT or ZT60.

My results:


96795e5edda6d359d10250b1c21cc5ec_zps1fe42b5a.jpg

2b9bf3b2680e99840b9be16183815cc3_zpsbb0963ce.jpg

bb22eb4534d7ffcadad171b4511cbf0e_zps20101282.jpg

bffaa06f724f7f90ecb454f45ee21ff6_zpse88073c5.jpg

862e683c1fc7c0833be287a2d120b937_zps4580c398.jpg

Hi Jumbo Jet,

do u have any reports that show at least 21pt or preferably more pt evaluation of the display's performance ?

The VT60 is a fantastic display, but 10 pt evaluation on (any display) can be very misleading, even 21 pt...

The VT60's have severe Gamma inconsistencies see the post in my signature...


Glad you like the picture !

- M

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post #13507 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Yes but I will let Chad speak to that, we did see some issues in the 90 to 100 area. I don't have those reports, Chad might share them if he is so inclined.

okay, just making sure...

even if he saw (the usual) crazy spikes, there's not much u can do about it with the 10 pt controls... u need a LUT to somewhat smooth things out...

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post #13508 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 04:20 PM
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Yeah that high end was pretty spikey for sure. I am sure a lut would improve things but I am completely satisfied with my calibration smile.gif

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post #13509 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 05:15 PM
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This was the first time I'd ever measured a set with 1% steps, so I made a custom levels set in CalMAN going from 1-101%. The profiled i1D3 was set to 1.5 sec exposure for optimal stability/repeatability, and I believe I used a 1.3 second pattern delay. Day mode was measured, which used panel brightness high. Light output at 100% was 46.1 fL in the 1% run. There is a discrepancy between the gamma results here and what I measured using 5% steps using the same settings, and I am not sure if it is due to panel fatigue or something else. The gamma as measured in a 5% step run maintained closer to the target line at the high end.


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post #13510 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 05:29 PM
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Here is the 5% measurement run, using the same settings.

EDIT: my bad, the first one had a different scale. Here it is with the same scaling as the 1% graph.

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post #13511 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 05:32 PM
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Chad, I hope people pay attention to the y axis scale differences in the charts.

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post #13512 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 05:34 PM
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Chad, I hope people pay attention to the y axis scale differences in the charts.

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Yeah, I just caught that and corrected it. smile.gif

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post #13513 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 05:54 PM
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^^^^^^ Chad could you talk about the low black levels on calibrated VT60s with 3000+ hours on em. I believe you had at least one other set that measured really low in 60hz and was wondering if you you did a 96hz reading on it as well. How low can these sets really go?
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post #13514 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 06:09 PM
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Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.
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post #13515 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 06:25 PM
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A few quick questions before you go, Chad:

1. Did you use 4% windows on a 20-25% APL screen?

2. Was the D3 in contact with the screen? I'm not asking because of temperature considerations. Once the meter has reached the screen level, its thermal compensation and its own thermal inertia should be sufficient to take care of the few degree change during a five minute 101 point run.


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post #13516 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

A few quick questions before you go, Chad:

1. Did you use 4% windows on a 20-25% APL screen?

2. Was the D3 in contact with the screen? I'm not asking because of temperature considerations. Once the meter has reached the screen level, its thermal compensation and its own thermal inertia should be sufficient to take care of the few degree change during a five minute 101 point run.


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I used either 6 or 7% size, 22% APL windows. With the recent CalMAN builds you can specify size and APL% in 1% steps on some generators.

Yes, I always use the i1D3 in contact mode on flat panels.

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post #13517 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 06:39 PM
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Thanks, Chad.

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post #13518 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.


Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?

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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That is nearing the Pioneer 500M territory, the best seen from any Panasonic ever as far as I can tell! I don't get these low-level anomalies. They are amazing but hard to believe given the known capability of the panel and already established readings from the rest of D-Nice, McKenzie, and co. If the hours are contributing to this, it makes me wonder if the aging algorithms of the panel itself are resulting in this improvement.


How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
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post #13519 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 07:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?

Yes, except the LG OLED (last review in my signature). Chris said those just had a major price drop... I sure hope that someone starts making a bigger, flat OLED soon to take over as the videophile's choice. With the Pannys discontinued, I have a tough time recommending anything (except to people who are OK with a 55" curved screen). frown.gif

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post #13520 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 08:11 PM
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How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
Here's my input, I don't own a 500m but my tweaked 101fd was measured at .0002

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post #13521 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 08:14 PM
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I know 2 sets out of many is not enough to conclusively say that these incredible black level readings are indicative of the same numbers for all the other sets that are past 3450 hours but Iam seriously intrigued if it might actually be the case. I've been following this thread for quite a while and I can't remember if we've had any other owner other than Chunon that had an ISF calibration done after 3000+ hours. If so please speak up because Iam right now having dreams of Panasonic engineers throwing us a little surprise knowing this was going to be their last hoorah and wanted to go out in style.


Wait. Now they could be the same engineers that were folded into Panasonic once Pioneer closed up shop so you never know. We all know those guys left a nice Christmas present to those lucky 500M owners smile.gif


'Back to earth now but it was nice to dream for a second there biggrin.gif
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post #13522 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.
Have you been able to test the lower limit of your i1D3, or is 0.0005 the lowest you've measured? Regardless, that's very impressive!

It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.
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post #13523 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yes, except the LG OLED (last review in my signature). Chris said those just had a major price drop... I sure hope that someone starts making a bigger, flat OLED soon to take over as the videophile's choice. With the Pannys discontinued, I have a tough time recommending anything (except to people who are OK with a 55" curved screen). frown.gif

So glad I bought my ZT!
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post #13524 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 09:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?
How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
0.0005 is equivalent to a stock 500M. Tweaked is 0.0002 or 0.0001 or unable to be read. smile.gif My ZT60 was approximately equal to the 111FD I sold last summer. I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near 500M levels, stock or otherwise (currently at ~1600 hours).
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It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.
Is there a spec sheet for it somewhere so we can lay this to rest? What meter does D-Nice use? Reason I ask is because he routinely tries to get the best from his Kuros and those he himself owns, so this means a lot of very low level reads.
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post #13525 of 14961 Old 03-11-2014, 11:23 PM
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D-Nice uses a K10 meter.
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post #13526 of 14961 Old 03-12-2014, 12:45 AM
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Is the black level of the VT60 the same in high panel mode and mid panel mode?

I know blacks are raised slightly in low panel mode, but can't find any figures for the black level in high panel mode.
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post #13527 of 14961 Old 03-12-2014, 01:31 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Is there a spec sheet for it somewhere so we can lay this to rest? What meter does D-Nice use? Reason I ask is because he routinely tries to get the best from his Kuros and those he himself owns, so this means a lot of very low level reads.
No official spec sheet that says the range of the i1D3 AFAIK. And again, it has been said that it can measure down to ~0.001fL, but I haven't actually seen anyone attempt anything below this number (until Chad that is).

As SS said, D-Nice uses a Klein K-10 colorimeter, which I believe has an insane measuring range, down to something like 0.00005fL.
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post #13528 of 14961 Old 03-12-2014, 02:33 AM
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Originally Posted by pitto View Post

Is the black level of the VT60 the same in high panel mode and mid panel mode?

I know blacks are raised slightly in low panel mode, but can't find any figures for the black level in high panel mode.
Others will have to double check, but I believe Chad said that black levels remained the same when he calibrates with high.

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post #13529 of 14961 Old 03-12-2014, 04:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.

I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.

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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post


It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.

Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

D-Nice uses a K10 meter.

@ss (couldn't resist) - what are you getting for black on your 65VT60 with your K10-A?

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post #13530 of 14961 Old 03-12-2014, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.
Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.
@ss (couldn't resist) - what are you getting for black on your 65VT60 with your K10-A?

Buzz,

I get the same on my VT60 with the K10-A....

Thing is obviously that brt has to be set correctly in order to take a valid measurement...

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