Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 451 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:29 PM
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Here is the 5% measurement run, using the same settings.

EDIT: my bad, the first one had a different scale. Here it is with the same scaling as the 1% graph.

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Old 03-11-2014, 06:32 PM
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Chad, I hope people pay attention to the y axis scale differences in the charts.

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Old 03-11-2014, 06:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Chad, I hope people pay attention to the y axis scale differences in the charts.

Larry
Yeah, I just caught that and corrected it. smile.gif

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Old 03-11-2014, 06:54 PM
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^^^^^^ Chad could you talk about the low black levels on calibrated VT60s with 3000+ hours on em. I believe you had at least one other set that measured really low in 60hz and was wondering if you you did a 96hz reading on it as well. How low can these sets really go?
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:09 PM
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Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:25 PM
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A few quick questions before you go, Chad:

1. Did you use 4% windows on a 20-25% APL screen?

2. Was the D3 in contact with the screen? I'm not asking because of temperature considerations. Once the meter has reached the screen level, its thermal compensation and its own thermal inertia should be sufficient to take care of the few degree change during a five minute 101 point run.


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Old 03-11-2014, 07:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

A few quick questions before you go, Chad:

1. Did you use 4% windows on a 20-25% APL screen?

2. Was the D3 in contact with the screen? I'm not asking because of temperature considerations. Once the meter has reached the screen level, its thermal compensation and its own thermal inertia should be sufficient to take care of the few degree change during a five minute 101 point run.


Larry
I used either 6 or 7% size, 22% APL windows. With the recent CalMAN builds you can specify size and APL% in 1% steps on some generators.

Yes, I always use the i1D3 in contact mode on flat panels.

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Old 03-11-2014, 07:39 PM
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Thanks, Chad.

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Old 03-11-2014, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.


Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?

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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

That is nearing the Pioneer 500M territory, the best seen from any Panasonic ever as far as I can tell! I don't get these low-level anomalies. They are amazing but hard to believe given the known capability of the panel and already established readings from the rest of D-Nice, McKenzie, and co. If the hours are contributing to this, it makes me wonder if the aging algorithms of the panel itself are resulting in this improvement.


How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?

Yes, except the LG OLED (last review in my signature). Chris said those just had a major price drop... I sure hope that someone starts making a bigger, flat OLED soon to take over as the videophile's choice. With the Pannys discontinued, I have a tough time recommending anything (except to people who are OK with a 55" curved screen). frown.gif

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Old 03-11-2014, 09:11 PM
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How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
Here's my input, I don't own a 500m but my tweaked 101fd was measured at .0002

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Old 03-11-2014, 09:14 PM
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I know 2 sets out of many is not enough to conclusively say that these incredible black level readings are indicative of the same numbers for all the other sets that are past 3450 hours but Iam seriously intrigued if it might actually be the case. I've been following this thread for quite a while and I can't remember if we've had any other owner other than Chunon that had an ISF calibration done after 3000+ hours. If so please speak up because Iam right now having dreams of Panasonic engineers throwing us a little surprise knowing this was going to be their last hoorah and wanted to go out in style.


Wait. Now they could be the same engineers that were folded into Panasonic once Pioneer closed up shop so you never know. We all know those guys left a nice Christmas present to those lucky 500M owners smile.gif


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Old 03-11-2014, 09:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Unfortunately I did not check the hours on the other one that measured really low. Normally, I get black level readings around .0014-.0017 on the VT/ZT60 in 60 Hz and about .0007 in 96Hz mode. Chunon's and one other I did very recently measured .0006-.0007 in 60Hz. I re-measured the other one in 96Hz mode because I couldn't believe it at first- I thought I had inadvertently measured it in 96Hz, but I hadn't. 96Hz mode measured around .0005.

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.
Have you been able to test the lower limit of your i1D3, or is 0.0005 the lowest you've measured? Regardless, that's very impressive!

It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

Yes, except the LG OLED (last review in my signature). Chris said those just had a major price drop... I sure hope that someone starts making a bigger, flat OLED soon to take over as the videophile's choice. With the Pannys discontinued, I have a tough time recommending anything (except to people who are OK with a 55" curved screen). frown.gif

So glad I bought my ZT!
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

Wow. Is it safe to assume that no recently produced sets you've calibrated except maybe for the ZT60 approach these numbers?
How close is .0005 to those tweaked 500Ms Vinnie?
0.0005 is equivalent to a stock 500M. Tweaked is 0.0002 or 0.0001 or unable to be read. smile.gif My ZT60 was approximately equal to the 111FD I sold last summer. I'd be surprised if it was anywhere near 500M levels, stock or otherwise (currently at ~1600 hours).
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It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.
Is there a spec sheet for it somewhere so we can lay this to rest? What meter does D-Nice use? Reason I ask is because he routinely tries to get the best from his Kuros and those he himself owns, so this means a lot of very low level reads.
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Old 03-12-2014, 12:23 AM
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D-Nice uses a K10 meter.
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Old 03-12-2014, 01:45 AM
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Is the black level of the VT60 the same in high panel mode and mid panel mode?

I know blacks are raised slightly in low panel mode, but can't find any figures for the black level in high panel mode.
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Old 03-12-2014, 02:31 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Is there a spec sheet for it somewhere so we can lay this to rest? What meter does D-Nice use? Reason I ask is because he routinely tries to get the best from his Kuros and those he himself owns, so this means a lot of very low level reads.
No official spec sheet that says the range of the i1D3 AFAIK. And again, it has been said that it can measure down to ~0.001fL, but I haven't actually seen anyone attempt anything below this number (until Chad that is).

As SS said, D-Nice uses a Klein K-10 colorimeter, which I believe has an insane measuring range, down to something like 0.00005fL.
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Old 03-12-2014, 03:33 AM
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Is the black level of the VT60 the same in high panel mode and mid panel mode?

I know blacks are raised slightly in low panel mode, but can't find any figures for the black level in high panel mode.
Others will have to double check, but I believe Chad said that black levels remained the same when he calibrates with high.

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Old 03-12-2014, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

I use a 5 second exposure LH on the i1D3 for all plasma black level measurements. This results in very repeatable readings, but the absolute accuracy down there is undocumented on the i1D3.

I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post


It has been said that the D3 is capable of reading down to 0.0009/0.001fL, so I'm surprised you got a reading that low. I don't have a display to test the capabilities of my D3 so I'm curious.

Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.

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D-Nice uses a K10 meter.

@ss (couldn't resist) - what are you getting for black on your 65VT60 with your K10-A?

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Old 03-12-2014, 05:58 AM
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I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.
Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.
@ss (couldn't resist) - what are you getting for black on your 65VT60 with your K10-A?

Buzz,

I get the same on my VT60 with the K10-A....

Thing is obviously that brt has to be set correctly in order to take a valid measurement...

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Old 03-12-2014, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.
Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.
@ss (couldn't resist) - what are you getting for black on your 65VT60 with your K10-A?

Buzz,

I get the same on my VT60 with the K10-A....

Thing is obviously that brt has to be set correctly in order to take a valid measurement...

- M

Brightness was set correctly. Here's from http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467563/official-panasonic-vt60-vt65-series-discussion-thread-no-street-price-talk/12720#post_24358446

65VT60 212 Hours HDMI2 Pro1

60HZ .005 nits .00145 FtL
96HZ .0035 nits .001015 FtL

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Old 03-12-2014, 06:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron Mike View Post

Buzz,

I get the same on my VT60 with the K10-A....

Thing is obviously that brt has to be set correctly in order to take a valid measurement...

- M

Pretty sure Chad possesses that skill

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Old 03-12-2014, 11:05 AM
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Reference? I think Tom Huffman came up with .003 Nits which is close to .001.
Tom is my reference. smile.gif

In his review, I don't think he attempts anything below 0.001fL (or 0.0034 nits / cdm2).
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:51 AM
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Pretty sure Chad possesses that skill

Really???? LOL!

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Old 03-12-2014, 12:27 PM
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Really???? LOL!

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Old 03-12-2014, 04:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

I'm measuring about .0014 with a K10-A on my 65VT60. I doubt the black level lowers with age (mine has 350 hours) but time will tell.

[snip]

Recently in another thread here I posted that for my 65VT60 I get 0.00149 ftL with my i1 D3 using a 0.5 second integration time. I had well over 2000 hours on the unit. I'll have to try the 5 second period that Chad used with his D3.

I have not checked my 60VT60 since the last calibration when it had only a few hundred hours on it and measured 0.00152 ftL

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Old 03-12-2014, 04:28 PM
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Recently in another thread here I posted that for my 65VT60 I get 0.00149 ftL with my i1 D3 using a 0.5 second integration time.

Larry

In HCFR that 0.5 is the base setting for bright levels, adaptive integration will kick in for black and drive the integration time up to a max around 20 seconds.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:31 PM
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Thanks much, zoyd. So I'll just save some time and forget about a re-check right now. smile.gif

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Old 03-12-2014, 05:41 PM
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I have had 4 LED TVs and this is my first plasma and I am amazed with the quality of the picture. There is one effect that I cannot seem to ignore which is flashes or blurs of a redish color when objects move fast. I see this when watching cable and even blueray movies. This same redish blur was present on the first 65vt60 I had before this one as well. Is this abnormal, my eyes playing tricks on me or do i need to get used to watching plasma TVs? I was under the impression the refresh rate was better on the plasma TVs.

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