Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 463 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #13861 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by guvadc View Post

Just curious, what was your contrast set at on the vt60 when you got IR?

I feel the same as you. If I had it to do over again I myself think I would have gone with the f8500. They do seem to be a lot less susceptible to the long duration IR. I hardley ever use my set anymore and only have maybe 500 hours on it now. I'm actually thinking about selling it. Does anyone know what a fair price is to ask for on a 65vt60?

Probably 40. I think standard is 30, so I probably bumped it up a bit to make it brighter. I've also thought about selling mine, but I figure telling someone it has IR will turn off most buyers. I'm not willing to take a $500 hit over it. I can live with it, but it does bother me.
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post #13862 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post

I had posted this question a while back and for some reason never get any feedback. If anyone's using a sound bar connected to a blu ray player hooked up to their VT60 and using their VT60's remote to control their volume operation- let me know what the heck I'm doing wrong biggrin.gif

What happens when you simply use the Roamio remote to watch TV and control volume?

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post #13863 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 10:25 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Achilles00 View Post

Just figured I'd chime in and share my experience with a stubborn and annoying case of IR. When I got my 55" VT60, I ran a combination of slides and mostly full screen content to try and break it in. Normally, I might run the set 10 hours a week, but for the first 3 weeks I ran it more like 20 hours a week. If I wasn't watching something, I ran the slides for a couple of hours.

Anyway, I also did some gaming. I played Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze for probably 6-8 hours over the course of 3 days, and between 2 hour sessions I ran slides and watched movies. Yet, the image of the health meter is clearly visible against certain backgrounds (mostly on light blue skies). I have run the Disney WOW pixel flipper for several days and have since logged about 150 more hours of full screen content on the set without playing any more Donkey Kong, and yet the IR is still there. 99% of the time it's not noticeable, but I just can't seem to shake it.

I'm definitely surprised since my old 42" Panasonic plasma never had IR that lasted more than a couple of minutes, and I never even bothered to try to break that set it. Had the contrast cranked to 85 on it, too. If I could do it over again, I would not spend the $1500 on this set. As good as it looks, the image retention is a real kick in the balls because I don't feel that I was negligent or irresponsible. And the whole idea that you can't just watch your TV--that instead you need to run slides every so often and break it in--takes away from my enjoyment of the TV. Now I'm paranoid about getting IR from other sources, too. I'd like to calibrate my set, but I don't know if I should continue to try to get rid of the IR before doing it. At 200+ hours, I feel like it's probably not IR but burn-in.

Just my experience, for whatever it's worth to anyone else.
The ZT, which shares a panel, is no different. I am running the pixel flipper as we speak and also thinking of selling it for this reason, but I need something that can deliver PQ on par and/or better as a replacement. The F8500 doesn't fit the bill suffice to say.
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post #13864 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 10:42 AM
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Ir susceptibility really varies panel to panel I have a vt that was abused for over 3300 hours as a floor model and only minor ir from the espn banner is present

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post #13865 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:08 AM
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I've actually put mine on Craiglist once but took myself off the ledge. I still go back and forth once in awhile but I don't know what I would replace it with either...

I expect IR but as others have stated my 7 year old 9UK had very little even with my HTPC and gaming habits.
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post #13866 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:18 AM
 
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LG has something coming out later this year in the same size that will be better in most respects, but it won't come cheap.

I'm just going to have to hook up my LCD in the main viewing area while this runs 24/7 for a week (or 2) to see if I've made any progress on the IR front. I'm glad these have a 100,000-hour rating until half-life.
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post #13867 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Ir susceptibility really varies panel to panel I have a vt that was abused for over 3300 hours as a floor model and only minor ir from the espn banner is present

And so does the method to remove it.

I've found that Pixel Flipper alone doesn't work nearly as well as including the Evangelos slides. I pretty much got rid of the dreaded Panasonic logo demo that was used on my 60ST60 floor model. It suffered over 3200 hours of that deno abuse and I've managed to fade nearly all of it. It is unnoticable with normal content and I'm loosely watching hockey now.

My 60ZT60, which I no longer watch, doesn't suffer from persistent IR from logos either. But again, I don't watch the ZT anymore and will likely sell it. The NBC logo from this Winter Olympics was a non-issue. And, the immaculate 65VT60 I just recently picked up for dirt cheap (I had no interest in another TV at the time) won't get IR no matter how hard I try.
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post #13868 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:40 AM
 
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Thanks for the reminder. I found slides worked very well for some uneven wear on a new OLED. I might try them out on my 1800+ hour ZT60 for the heck of it.
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post #13869 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:43 AM
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I just stopped worrying about it and just watch tv normally it will either go away or it won't

The st60 that I moved to other room had some espn ir but that is completely gone now just from normal viewing

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post #13870 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 11:59 AM
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On my vt I never had any trace if ir until about 250 hour mark. The first sign I saw from ir was from history channel logo. The ir that I see most frequently is from dish guide menu upper right corner dish logo with that red i. It all does fade away fairly quick I'd say probably 15 minutes. I don't game on mine and have really watch one channel all day to see how bad a channel logo could get. I do tend to be conscientious about what I'm watching too. On my end nothing too worry some yet, nearing 500 hour mark.
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post #13871 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 12:03 PM
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Mistakenly left a paused video game on all last night, probably 6-7hrs with contrast set to 75. Been running pixel wiper today and I'd say the IR is 90% gone so far, hopefully it's all gone by 2mro.

Chad is coming on Tuesday to calibrate it so the timing on this isn't good ;(
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post #13872 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 12:12 PM
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So, I've been looking up some calibration settings for the set. They all advise putting the contrast really high; one even advocates setting it at 91. Seems like that powerful of a contrast might be hard on the display and make IR more likely. Sure does look nice, though. I've decided to basically give up on the Donkey Kong IR I have. It's there but only noticeable under certain circumstances. I'm just paranoid about further IR/burn-in. I can live with what's there but don't want it, or another case of it, to get worse.
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post #13873 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 12:16 PM
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That 91 contrast is for a day mode using high panel brightness if you don't need that level of light output stick with settings using mid panel brightness

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post #13874 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 12:28 PM
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Do you guys know if Apple's wireless keyboard pairs with the VT60?
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post #13875 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 01:03 PM
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Thanks. I bumped it down to around 80, which is what CNET's settings advised. My old set was at 85, and that looked fine to me, but then again I never experienced lasting IR/burn-in. This set, however, already has some of those issues from a contrast setting of 40...
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post #13876 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 01:08 PM
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I don't think contrast plays as big a part as some folks think

It's more content and panel variance related IMO

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post #13877 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 02:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ab2ab View Post

And so does the method to remove it.

I've found that Pixel Flipper alone doesn't work nearly as well as including the Evangelos slides. I pretty much got rid of the dreaded Panasonic logo demo that was used on my 60ST60 floor model. It suffered over 3200 hours of that deno abuse and I've managed to fade nearly all of it. It is unnoticable with normal content and I'm loosely watching hockey now.

My 60ZT60, which I no longer watch, doesn't suffer from persistent IR from logos either. But again, I don't watch the ZT anymore and will likely sell it. The NBC logo from this Winter Olympics was a non-issue. And, the immaculate 65VT60 I just recently picked up for dirt cheap (I had no interest in another TV at the time) won't get IR no matter how hard I try.

Are the slides at this link the Evangelos slides? I think they are, but figured I'd double check with someone who uses them. Thanks.

http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/hdtv-video-displays-processors/52673-plasma-break-how-properly-break-your-new-plasma-display.html
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post #13878 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 03:08 PM
 
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Robert is legit, so that is probably fine. But this is another confirmed source: http://www.eaprogramming.com/downloads/download_main.htm
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post #13879 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Oakley View Post

What happens when you simply use the Roamio remote to watch TV and control volume?

I tried that and it's a no go. I figured a Panasonic Soundbar hooked up to a blu ray player going to a panasonic PDP wouldn't be hard to operate with the display's remote but apparently not mad.gif
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post #13880 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Achilles00 View Post

Normally, I might run the set 10 hours a week, but for the first 3 weeks I ran it more like 20 hours a week. If I wasn't watching something, I ran the slides for a couple of hours.
So at the end of three weeks you had about 60 hours on your set.
Quote:
Anyway, I also did some gaming.
During the first three weeks?
Quote:
I played Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze for probably 6-8 hours over the course of 3 days
About 13% of your set's first 60 hours was Donkey Kong.
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Yet, the image of the health meter is clearly visible against certain backgrounds (mostly on light blue skies).
A lot of people wouldn't have been surprise, because they think that as a panel ages it gets less vulnerable to IR. I don't know if that true.
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I have run the Disney WOW pixel flipper for several days and have since logged about 150 more hours of full screen content on the set without playing any more Donkey Kong, and yet the IR is still there.
Is your pixel flipper time a portion of the 150 hours of full screen content? How many of those additional hours were flipper hours?
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99% of the time it's not noticeable, but I just can't seem to shake it.
It sounds like there may have been some improvement. Is that right?
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And the whole idea that you can't just watch your TV--that instead you need to run slides every so often and break it in--takes away from my enjoyment of the TV.
That's probably why some people go with LCD technology.
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Now I'm paranoid about getting IR from other sources, too. I'd like to calibrate my set, but I don't know if I should continue to try to get rid of the IR before doing it.
I'm not sure what you mean by calibration, but if you mean having the setup menu on for several hours, that's probably not a good idea right now.
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At 200+ hours, I feel like it's probably not IR but burn-in.
200+ hours isn't very long. and I don't see any reason to suspect that you have burn-in. More likely you have buyers remorse. wink.gif

Here is some information about IR that you may find helpful.

Two Types of IR - Part I

Two Types of IR - Part II

Avoid and Remove IR.
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post #13881 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 08:01 PM
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lol at Donkey Kong. biggrin.gif

Actually, I was even worse. For the first 100 hours, I played Phantasy Star Online, an RPG game, and lifebar was stuck for a few hours. biggrin.gif Did I care? No~ I knew I won't be suffering from long term IR and I still am not.
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post #13882 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 08:41 PM
 
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^Sega Dreamcast flashback. eek.gif
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

A lot of people wouldn't have been surprise, because they think that as a panel ages it gets less vulnerable to IR. I don't know if that true.
That theory has to be re-evaluated with the Panasonic 2013 line, at least through 2000 hours in my experience, lest someone ceases to remain vigilant and has an unpleasant surprise after wrongly assuming the danger is (mostly) over.
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post #13883 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post

So at the end of three weeks you had about 60 hours on your set.
During the first three weeks?
About 13% of your set's first 60 hours was Donkey Kong.

Is your pixel flipper time a portion of the 150 hours of full screen content? How many of those additional hours were flipper hours?
It sounds like there may have been some improvement. Is that right?
That's probably why some people go with LCD technology.
I'm not sure what you mean by calibration, but if you mean having the setup menu on for several hours, that's probably not a good idea right now.
200+ hours isn't very long. and I don't see any reason to suspect that you have burn-in. More likely you have buyers remorse. wink.gif

Here is some information about IR that you may find helpful.

Two Types of IR - Part I

Two Types of IR - Part II

Avoid and Remove IR.

I see your point about 13% of my panel's life being devoted to DK, but I ran other content between sessions--and I didn't start playing DK until I had at least 40 hours on the set already.

The Pixel Flipper has been a part of the other 150 hours. I'd guess at least 10 hours worth. Otherwise, I've been watching movies, playing other games, running slides, and letting BBC nature videos like Planet Earth play on repeat for 4-5 hours at a time. There was improvement after the first few hours of playing other content, but for the past 145 hours it's been more or less the same. I ran the Evangelos slides today, though, and that seems to have made things better.

By calibration, I mean use the advanced tools on the Disney WOW disc to get a picture I'm happy with. I probably won't go beyond that sort of calibration.

Trust me, it's not the $1500 that bothers me. It's that my old Panny ran like a champ without issue, even after marathon sessions of Dead Rising 2. Never had IR last more than a couple of minutes. If I have remorse, it's only because this set's performance isn't consistent with my other set's performance.

Anyway, I appreciate all of the inout. Thanks for the links, too.

Long live Donkey Kong!
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post #13884 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Achilles00 View Post

Long live Donkey Kong!

biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

best comment in a long time smile.gif

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post #13885 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:12 PM
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biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif

best comment in a long time smile.gif

Dude, I'm just glad that the Wii U lets me play on the tablet controller! Sounds like I'd better avoid displaying DK on my screen until the IR fully fades (hopefully it does, but I'm not so sure). At least this way I can actually finish the game, which is a lot of fun.
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post #13886 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Achilles00 View Post

Dude, I'm just glad that the Wii U lets me play on the tablet controller! Sounds like I'd better avoid displaying DK on my screen until the IR fully fades (hopefully it does, but I'm not so sure). At least this way I can actually finish the game, which is a lot of fun.

back in the day, DK Country on the SNES with developer Rare in it's prime... and no IR to worry about ! biggrin.gif

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post #13887 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:27 PM
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back in the day, DK Country on the SNES with developer Rare in it's prime... and no IR to worry about ! biggrin.gif

I think DK Country 2 has to be one of my top 5 games ever. Such a brilliant combination of music, graphics, control and design. Also, since someone mentioned the Dreamcast, I'll also mention that Shenmue is probably also in my top 5 all-time.

The new DK is really good, though. One of the more challenging games I've played since, well, the last DK on the original Wii.
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post #13888 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Achilles00 View Post

I think DK Country 2 has to be one of my top 5 games ever. Such a brilliant combination of music, graphics, control and design. Also, since someone mentioned the Dreamcast, I'll also mention that Shenmue is probably also in my top 5 all-time.

The new DK is really good, though. One of the more challenging games I've played since, well, the last DK on the original Wii.

I'm still waiting for Shenmue 3 to finish the story..... rolleyes.gif

DC was the best console of that generation with a company (SEGA) that just didn't know how to market it...

On the VT60 here after longer sessions of FPS with static health bars and all, I get some slight IR which vanishes very, very quickly....

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post #13889 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:46 PM
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IR vanishes quickly for me too EXCEPT for the Xbox One logo on menus - beware of that nasty, nasty thing...
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post #13890 of 16437 Old 04-06-2014, 09:59 PM
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Yea, that's what I was used to with my old Panny. But the DK stuff is stubbornly clinging to the screen. Hoping to turn a corner on it because otherwise the set is awesome. Pretty much everything I've ever wanted in a TV.

Oh, and I heard a rumor that Shenmue 3 might be partially funded through Kickstarter. At least that's a consideration, though with what games cost to make, it'd need to be a massive pledge drive.

Iron Mike, did you ever calibrate your set or break it in? Just wondering how many hours you logged before you were able to play without lasting IR.
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