Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 478 - AVS Forum
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post #14311 of 14890 Old 05-25-2014, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Wurlitzer-1015 View Post

Yep, I agree, would be just too hard and costly for Panasonic to do that.  I bought my set off Amazon as a "new and unused" but who knows what that means.

Seen a few references to factory burn-in here's just one thread than mentions it, see the posting from "donleforet"

controlcal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1006
You purchased it from Amazon 10 days ago? Can't imagine how that would be a new TV. Was it a warehouse deal? What size and how much did you pay?

Also, what was the manufactured month? To echo what others have said, it is highly unlikely the hours were put on at the factory. I also had a new VT60 delivered from Amazon and it was zero hours when I received it.

You should probably call Amazon and they might compensate you since the TV was obviously not new. Are you sure it wasn't sold as "like new"?

Also, take a picture as proof just in case showing the hours on the TV compared to the hours the TV has been in your home.

The bottom line though, if the panel looks good and you do not see any IR I wouldn't worry about it but would try and get money back from Amazon, of course depending on what was actually stated on the sale page.
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post #14312 of 14890 Old 05-25-2014, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post


You purchased it from Amazon 10 days ago? Can't imagine how that would be a new TV. Was it a warehouse deal? What size and how much did you pay?

Also, what was the manufactured month? To echo what others have said, it is highly unlikely the hours were put on at the factory. I also had a new VT60 delivered from Amazon and it was zero hours when I received it.

You should probably call Amazon and they might compensate you since the TV was obviously not new. Are you sure it wasn't sold as "like new"?

Also, take a picture as proof just in case showing the hours on the TV compared to the hours the TV has been in your home.

The bottom line though, if the panel looks good and you do not see any IR I wouldn't worry about it but would try and get money back from Amazon, of course depending on what was actually stated on the sale page.

 I took delivery 10 or so days ago, this is my second VT60, but it was purchased from Amazon 3 months ago. In the interim it was in the shippers warehouse here in Singapore as I was away.

There are no signs at all that it was a used set, everything was pristine, nothing opened, no marks, all plastic packets sealed etc so it was a brand new set and wasn't advertised as factort re-condtioned etc.

I'm really please with the set, 100% perfect (no fan noise :).  I don't know where to find the manufacture date.

I ceratinly won't return it, it would nearly $750 in freight from Singapore.

Panasonic Plasmas we're unavailable in Singapore since September 2013 so that's why I ordered from Amazon.


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post #14313 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 02:26 AM
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Thank you, fcb.

Your tips are great.

 

As for the gamut: WOW

I did not expect such a wide beast from this TV.

 

Even if the measures are not 100% correct, the tendency is obvious.

As I already guessed, correcting primaries does not add to quality at all. Just tweaked a tiny little bit.

 

The result from dispCalGUI:

 

99.3 % sRGB

88.x% AdobeRGB

 

HCFR:

120+ cd/m^2

6700-6850K

Gamma ~2.3

 

The computer still can only send 8bpp -> next step to take.

 

I wonder how to verify whether the source really sends 3x10 bpp. I only have a DP outlet and use a (hopefully) quality converter in between.

 

I didn't notice any difference in colour when playing videos from the comp. maybe the colour profile compensates for the reduced set of video values.

The 'straight' lines between the native primaries and Rec.709 secondaries pass exacty through the Rec.709 primaries.

Well - this is a 2d view, so may not mean anything valuable as gamuts are always 3d.

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post #14314 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wurlitzer-1015 View Post

 I took delivery 10 or so days ago, this is my second VT60, but it was purchased from Amazon 3 months ago. In the interim it was in the shippers warehouse here in Singapore as I was away.
There are no signs at all that it was a used set, everything was pristine, nothing opened, no marks, all plastic packets sealed etc so it was a brand new set and wasn't advertised as factort re-condtioned etc.
I'm really please with the set, 100% perfect (no fan noise smile.gif.  I don't know where to find the manufacture date.
I ceratinly won't return it, it would nearly $750 in freight from Singapore.
Panasonic Plasmas we're unavailable in Singapore since September 2013 so that's why I ordered from Amazon.
Everything looks good and you are enjoying the TV then I doesn't even matter if someone watched the thing already or not. lol

Just keep enjoying that thing!
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post #14315 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 06:10 AM
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Hi guys, I now have about 121 hours on my 55VT60.

I was going to book a calibration in - should I wait longer or will this be enough 'break in'?

I haven't run slides or anything, just using it as I would any other TV. Gaming, movies, TV (SD and HD content) and even have a Macbook plugged in to it I use as a home theatre PC. Haven't had any IR at all, not even from game HUDs etc. Haven't worried about black bars on blu ray movies either - I use THX Cinema for just about all my settings.
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post #14316 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 06:28 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Everything looks good and you are enjoying the TV then I doesn't even matter if someone watched the thing already or not. lol
!

Yes it does matter. Had I been mis-sold I'd be furious and want some compensation. Amazon are usually reasonable as well.

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post #14317 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 03:29 PM
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Got the 55VT60 here, been a year now and I just learned that Rec. 709 applies to (16-235) only. Explains why the colors on my PC always looked washed out when gaming with PC. As soon as I set it to Native color, yay. The red is gorgeous. Now, can anyone tell me how in the world I'm supposed to calibrate for Full RGB (0-255) ? I'm assuming the usual Spears & Munsil won't do very well. I tried it and had to set Color to 55. I was a little skeptical going from 47 to 55.

Or should I just game in YCbCr 4:4:4? I'll be able to use the same calibration and leave "Pure Direct" on. Or will I still lose the (0-15,236-255)? Any help is appreciated, been confused about this for a while now. Just wanna get the best out of this beauty.
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post #14318 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post


On bright scenes and mid-bright scenes, right? I can say the same with my ZT60 then

Right.

With low APL, you are not going to see blacks as deep as the bezel on any any of these flat panels...except maybe OLED...perhaps Vinny can chime in on that.

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post #14319 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 08:54 PM
 
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Yes, the holy grail of black levels is here. Those waiting for both greater size and flatness may have to hold on a bit longer wink.gif
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post #14320 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 10:12 PM
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I can wait. My VT60 still amazes me and and that should help to tide me over until (hopefully) a large, flat OLED is available at a reasonable price.

"For small creatures such as we the vastness is bearable only through love."

--Carl Sagan
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post #14321 of 14890 Old 05-26-2014, 11:44 PM
 
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I'm not trying to be a salesperson, but I was summoned. Absolute black is a joy, and I have been rewatching my collection on the OLED (something I had planned to do with the ZT60 but got preempted by the price drops and an evil impulse). A thing to keep in mind is these guys are more susceptible to uneven wear than our hallowed Kuros and Vieras, so here's hoping for generational improvement in that regard (since cinema encompasses a whole lot more than just 1.85:1).
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post #14322 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 12:27 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I'm not trying to be a salesperson, but I was summoned. Absolute black is a joy, and I have been rewatching my collection on the OLED (something I had planned to do with the ZT60 but got preempted by the price drops and an evil impulse). A thing to keep in mind is these guys are more susceptible to uneven wear than our hallowed Kuros and Vieras, so here's hoping for generational improvement in that regard (since cinema encompasses a whole lot more than just 1.85:1).
Even 1.78:1. smile.gif
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post #14323 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 04:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jakirk View Post

Hi guys, I now have about 121 hours on my 55VT60.

I was going to book a calibration in - should I wait longer or will this be enough 'break in'?

I haven't run slides or anything, just using it as I would any other TV. Gaming, movies, TV (SD and HD content) and even have a Macbook plugged in to it I use as a home theatre PC. Haven't had any IR at all, not even from game HUDs etc. Haven't worried about black bars on blu ray movies either - I use THX Cinema for just about all my settings.
You want at least 300 hours on your VT60 if you are going to pay for a pro calibration. If you want something sooner then later then you should just run slides to get there quicker.
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post #14324 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I'm not trying to be a salesperson, but I was summoned. Absolute black is a joy, and I have been rewatching my collection on the OLED (something I had planned to do with the ZT60 but got preempted by the price drops and an evil impulse). A thing to keep in mind is these guys are more susceptible to uneven wear than our hallowed Kuros and Vieras, so here's hoping for generational improvement in that regard (since cinema encompasses a whole lot more than just 1.85:1).

Yeah, that's really what I meant. I want an OLED fiercely but realistically I can't afford one and the longevity concerns are enough to give me pause even if the prices were more reasonable.

I now avoid the display unit at my local bestbuy because all it does is lessen my VT60. Lol!
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post #14325 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 10:34 AM
 
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Rest assured that your VT60 does motion better (unless you're one of those poor souls afflicted by phosphor lag/trails...which I don't think you are biggrin.gif).
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post #14326 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 11:58 AM
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I see phosphor trails, but I don't think that's going to make me feel better about worse motion rez eek.gif
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post #14327 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post

Got the 55VT60 here, been a year now and I just learned that Rec. 709 applies to (16-235) only. Explains why the colors on my PC always looked washed out when gaming with PC. As soon as I set it to Native color, yay. The red is gorgeous. Now, can anyone tell me how in the world I'm supposed to calibrate for Full RGB (0-255) ? I'm assuming the usual Spears & Munsil won't do very well. I tried it and had to set Color to 55. I was a little skeptical going from 47 to 55.

Or should I just game in YCbCr 4:4:4? I'll be able to use the same calibration and leave "Pure Direct" on. Or will I still lose the (0-15,236-255)? Any help is appreciated, been confused about this for a while now. Just wanna get the best out of this beauty.

I made some checkerboard patterns to set black and white points but the ones for individual color are on another computer, black level is controlled by the brightness setting and noone has explained to me how to set the white point on Panasonic consumer models, on mine its a 64 point adjustment called 'input level'

The patterns are here, like I said I use different ones now but the checkerboard gets the job done
http://ge.tt/3CNsw2i1/v/0

For black level the idea is to reduce brightness until the checkerboard is invisible then go back up one tick, if you don't see all three colors at the low end dont worry it doesn't matter we are not particularly sensitive to color in shadows anyway, I actually crush green purposely because the on/off flicker of green really bothers me for some reason.

The white point might be set by the 'IRE' control but I have no idea, the whitelevel.gif image flickers between 255 and 254 and just like setting black level you will need to be in a dark room and the image needs to be in full screen for you to see what you are doing, when you are setting white level peripheral vision sometimes works better than looking straight at the screen

edit: also make sure HDMI is set to use full range in your graphics driver and on the display, DVI will default to 0-255 but you are still going through HDMI at the display end
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post #14328 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 02:08 PM
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Is it true that the VT60 crushes white? I forgot about that
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post #14329 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 02:33 PM
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Is it true that the VT60 crushes white? I forgot about that


No. It is not true.

Please post a link that shows such erroneous data.

Thanks,
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post #14330 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 03:00 PM
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Thats good to know, someone must have spread that rumor because I remember people talking about it a year ago
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post #14331 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 03:42 PM
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Thank god I don't see those! smile.gif


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Nice deal if you live in Las Vegas
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Is this a good deal?

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post #14334 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 04:49 PM
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They're both outstanding deals!
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post #14335 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 08:14 PM
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Thats good to know, someone must have spread that rumor because I remember people talking about it a year ago
That was probably referring to panel brightness high mode in the Professional picture modes. Panel brightness mid has always been fine, and now with certain calibration techniques high can be fine up to level 237 or so.
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post #14336 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post

Got the 55VT60 here, been a year now and I just learned that Rec. 709 applies to (16-235) only. Explains why the colors on my PC always looked washed out when gaming with PC. As soon as I set it to Native color, yay. The red is gorgeous. Now, can anyone tell me how in the world I'm supposed to calibrate for Full RGB (0-255) ? I'm assuming the usual Spears & Munsil won't do very well. I tried it and had to set Color to 55. I was a little skeptical going from 47 to 55.

Or should I just game in YCbCr 4:4:4? I'll be able to use the same calibration and leave "Pure Direct" on. Or will I still lose the (0-15,236-255)? Any help is appreciated, been confused about this for a while now. Just wanna get the best out of this beauty.

Do you have a link to where you read about Rec. 709 applying to limited RGB only and should be set to "native". I've never heard of this and have had my HTPC set to Rec. 709 all this time as well...
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post #14337 of 14890 Old 05-27-2014, 11:58 PM
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Do you have a link to where you read about Rec. 709 applying to limited RGB only and should be set to "native". I've never heard of this and have had my HTPC set to Rec. 709 all this time as well...

Rec 709 is a color space, it has nothing to do with video levels, Rec 709 can be 0-255 or 16-235 or 16-255 for 8-bit content....

u can either setup the VT60 to just receive 16-235 (there is a direct setting for that), or you can set up your content source (HTPC | Disc Player | Console) to output 16-235 if you just want the content to be limited to video levels (16-235)....

What BldyBg calls "native color" is again not a video levels setting (16-235 | 0-255) but rather a gamut setting, and if he sets the gamut of the VT60 to Native then the screen will have a wider gamut than Rec 709, that's why he loves the "red" so much, as it has more saturation now... biggrin.gif

for games (PC | Video game consoles) this can be okay as they usually are not mastered to a standard (--> specific color space), but for general video content (OTA | Blu-ray | DVD) you would want to display in Rec 709 as that is the mastering format...

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post #14338 of 14890 Old 05-28-2014, 12:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pdawg17 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post

Got the 55VT60 here, been a year now and I just learned that Rec. 709 applies to (16-235) only. Explains why the colors on my PC always looked washed out when gaming with PC. As soon as I set it to Native color, yay. The red is gorgeous. Now, can anyone tell me how in the world I'm supposed to calibrate for Full RGB (0-255) ? I'm assuming the usual Spears & Munsil won't do very well. I tried it and had to set Color to 55. I was a little skeptical going from 47 to 55.

Or should I just game in YCbCr 4:4:4? I'll be able to use the same calibration and leave "Pure Direct" on. Or will I still lose the (0-15,236-255)? Any help is appreciated, been confused about this for a while now. Just wanna get the best out of this beauty.

Do you have a link to where you read about Rec. 709 applying to limited RGB only and should be set to "native". I've never heard of this and have had my HTPC set to Rec. 709 all this time as well...

The sRGB standard used for computer monitors is based on Rec.709, the difference being the gamma specified as 2.2 for sRGB. Of course, we use PC levels for monitors. If the VT60 is like the ST60, setting the gamut to Native is going to oversaturate the colors big-time. If that "fixes" anything, it's due to either a levels mismatch or misplaced expectations, and in either case, it isn't a correct fix.
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post #14339 of 14890 Old 05-28-2014, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad B View Post

That was probably referring to panel brightness high mode in the Professional picture modes. Panel brightness mid has always been fine, and now with certain calibration techniques high can be fine up to level 237 or so.


Hi, Chad. Could be but a year ago I was researching the VT60 models and I do not remember any mention of white crush. I bought my 65VT60 in late June '13 and my 60VT60 in October and even then there was no talk about it of any consequence that I remember.

Like much of the stuff chatted about in these forums, if a discussion existed, it was due to the FUD factor that is irresistible to the OCD crowd. biggrin.gif


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post #14340 of 14890 Old 05-28-2014, 03:02 PM
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Hi All. I have been trying to adjust brightness and contrast levels using the Disney WOW disk on my VT60 however I noticed in Professional Modes that Contrast does not seem to change or make any noticeable difference when I adjust contrast above the 50 setting. Is this normal or is there an issue with my screen? If I change to Normal mode or Custom mode I am able to increase contrast above 50 without any problem at all.

Panasonic P55VT60, PS3, Apple TV, ReadyNAS Ultra2+, Logitech Z5500, Sennheiser RS170
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