Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 484 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by glemsom View Post
I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.
Welcome to AVS.

There is image retention information that you may find helpful, but unfortunately is seems that the new AVS web software has corrupted links to older information for the time being. Normally I would include links to other posts discussing the nature of image retention and some cures that help. We hope that AVS will get the bugs worked out ASP.

You do not have burn-in, but it sounds like you have some stubborn image retention. With time and some effort on your part, your problem can be solved.

First, burn-in is permanent and image retention (IR) is temporary. Some IR takes very little time to go away, but other types of IR may take much longer. There is no way to predict how long a given case of IR will take to dissipate. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the time it takes to get IR, and the time it takes to get rid of it.

Methods that have worked for vast numbers of plasma owners include avoiding the fixed image logo that is causing your problem and let nature take it's course by continuing to use your TV. To speed things up a lot of people have had good results using the pixel flipper that's included in the Disney WoW calibration disk, and a lot of others have had good luck using Pixar movies with 1.78:1 aspect ratios. The point is to age the pixels randomly until the area effected by IR comes in line with the rest of the screen.

You can also look into the settings you are using on your display. The brighter the screen settings, the more likely that a bright fixed image (some logos) will be retained. Other channels with low contrast and transparent logos aren't as dangerous.

Good luck.
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Old 06-15-2014, 03:48 PM
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So I was watching a redbox 2D BD rental of the movie "Her" when "3D signal detected" warning came up about 3 times during the movie. I just ignored it but was wondering if this is a disc issue more than anything else as I've never seen this before on my set.

Anyone rented this movie yet from redbox?
I've actually had this happen when watching a movie on dvr that i recorded from cable.
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Old 06-15-2014, 04:49 PM
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Thanks for this! I changed the RBG HDMI setting to full on the VT60 and then to Full on the PS4 and at first thought it looked OK but then realised it it washed out with greyish blacks. I've gone back to limited on the PS4 and 'Normal' on the VT60 and the blacks are back. Are there any other settings I'm missing to be able to use Full properly?

Thanks!
Not a problem, but it should have looked the same as Limited with Full on both devices. You should also try leaving the VT60 on Auto range for RGB (so far it's been detecting correctly for me), and then try switching formats on output devices. This way the VT60 will always be set correctly. Just make sure you really are getting correct blacks, because you might be so used to crushed blacks, correct looks washed out. A 0-25 black shade pattern like this should help, using the PS4 browser.[/QUOTE]

Hmm..I'll try the auto setting and see how the pattern looks. I did load that pattern into the PS4 browser and used 'full screen' but the first few boxes were way to bright/grey. That's when I realised it wasn't right. When I changed back they were nice and inky but could be still differentiated. I'll see how this goes!
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Old 06-15-2014, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glemsom View Post
I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.
Welcome to AVS.

There is image retention information that you may find helpful, but unfortunately is seems that the new AVS web software has corrupted links to older information for the time being. Normally I would include links to other posts discussing the nature of image retention and some cures that help. We hope that AVS will get the bugs worked out ASP.

You do not have burn-in, but it sounds like you have some stubborn image retention. With time and some effort on your part, your problem can be solved.

First, burn-in is permanent and image retention (IR) is temporary. Some IR takes very little time to go away, but other types of IR may take much longer. There is no way to predict how long a given case of IR will take to dissipate. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the time it takes to get IR, and the time it takes to get rid of it.

Methods that have worked for vast numbers of plasma owners include avoiding the fixed image logo that is causing your problem and let nature take it's course by continuing to use your TV. To speed things up a lot of people have had good results using the pixel flipper that's included in the Disney WoW calibration disk, and a lot of others have had good luck using Pixar movies with 1.78:1 aspect ratios. The point is to age the pixels randomly until the area effected by IR comes in line with the rest of the screen.

You can also look into the settings you are using on your display. The brighter the screen settings, the more likely that a bright fixed image (some logos) will be retained. Other channels with low contrast and transparent logos aren't as dangerous.

Good luck.
I thought I'd just briefly add my experience of IR (or perhaps burn-in) on my VT60.
When I bought my VT60 (my first plasma) a few months ago I was naive and just starting watching it without due care and attention on THX cinema. I soon got three areas of IR (FOX SPORTS HD, SKY NEWS HD a,d BBC World News). I tried everything, the inbuilt screen wipe for days, various slide sequences recommended to remove IR etc etc. Nothing worked and I was becoming resigned to having "burn-in".
After reading this forum I became aware of dnice's setting for the VT60 but as the set had over 500 hours on it it seemed pointless to run his slides for 100 hours before using his settings. I just set the TV up with his settings (amazing). Once this was done I ran the screen wipe for around 6 hours, the 3 areas of IR were gone!
It might have been the high contrast and bright panel settings that made the difference but whatever it was I was really amazed at how quickly the screen cleared-up.
The pros on this forum may have some comment and especially on running the screen wipe using dnice settings but for me it worked a treat.

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Old 06-15-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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I take it you used his night settings and not the more recently shared day settings (as the latter uses high panel brightness). That's interesting how quickly and thoroughly the wipe function worked with his settings specifically. Everyone seems to have a slightly different solution when it comes to IR removal success stories on these beasts.
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
I take it you used his night settings and not the more recently shared day settings (as the latter uses high panel brightness). That's interesting how quickly and thoroughly the wipe function worked with his settings specifically. Everyone seems to have a slightly different solution when it comes to IR removal success stories on these beasts.
Actually I was using the day settings for the wipe, I have those set under Professional 1 and the night under Professional. The panel brightness was high therefore during the wipe. I agree with you for sure, the IR issue seems to have different solutions but finding this one that cleared it so effectively and quickly has me sold on it.

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Old 06-15-2014, 06:02 PM
 
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Well, maybe you inadvertently honed in on a solution...panel brightness high!
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:06 PM
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Well, maybe you inadvertently honed in on a solution...panel brightness high!
Not sure that it was just the panel brightness but you could be right, panel brightness may have played a big part in it. The setting I was using were as per dnice's post from around a year ago, Has he updated these do you know?

2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread

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Old 06-15-2014, 06:18 PM
 
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I think it was only in the last several months that he added high panel brightness settings. It was just the regular ISF night setting he had shared previously.
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Old 06-15-2014, 06:19 PM
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I think it was only in the last several months that he added high panel brightness settings. It was just the regular ISF night setting he had shared previously.
Ah, I see, thanks.

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Old 06-15-2014, 07:37 PM
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Interesting. I assume the screen wipe had an internal setting that was set by Panasonic and not affected by picture presets. I'll have to check that out.

I've mostly used cnet settings at first. Now been using dnice setting for awhile. I have pixel orbitor on. My ir hasn't been stubborn. Everything has disappeared. I do tend to watch a lot of diffrent channels and shows.
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Old 06-15-2014, 07:47 PM
 
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Yea, I hadn't thought of that...you'd think the screen wipe settings were hardcoded and not configurable. I had been watching a lot of Netflix on the ZT60...but that navigation bar did it in.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:07 PM
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They also seem to get deeper as the set ages.
Is this with most high end Panasonic's or just VT60/ZT65s?
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...

Last edited by vinnie97; 06-15-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:41 PM
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Knew it was too good to be true.
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Old 06-15-2014, 08:46 PM
 
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If anything, I'm seeing the opposite (that's what an OLED in the adjacent room will do to your perception ).
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Old 06-15-2014, 09:16 PM
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They also seem to get deeper as the set ages.
Is this with most high end Panasonic's or just VT60/ZT65s?
Only mean in first 100 hours. But, maybe just my imagination. Blacks also looked better after being calibrated.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:07 AM
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No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...
Actually, cnet shows they do improve over the first few hundred hours before the inevitable drift upwards.

Mine certainly did. Out of the box my VT60 was actually a bit 'less black' than my fathers ST50. And yes we had them side by side.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:29 AM
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Temper your expectations. The screen will still glow with low APL content in a pitch black room. Just keep your eyes on the upcoming OLEDs...

Well I understand that, it just seems that my 50" ST60 had deeper blacks? Does size impact perceived black level at all?
I have both the ST60 and the VT60, the VTs blacks are noticeably darker.

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Old 06-16-2014, 09:45 AM
 
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No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...
Actually, cnet shows they do improve over the first few hundred hours before the inevitable drift upwards.

Mine certainly did. Out of the box my VT60 was actually a bit 'less black' than my fathers ST50. And yes we had them side by side.
I must've missed that Cnet memo/remark/finding.

Actually, I was thinking long-term here, beyond the break-in and into the thousands of hours of usage. Inevitable upwards drift? I would like to see some evidence of that as well. I know some Kuros have done it (along with more extreme cases with Viera models from earlier years) but have seen no evidence to suggest that yet on the 2013 models.

Last edited by vinnie97; 06-16-2014 at 09:50 AM.
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Old 06-16-2014, 03:09 PM
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I have both the ST60 and the VT60, the VTs blacks are noticeably darker.
I have the 50GT60 and 55VT60 and the blacks look the same but the GT60 is noticeably brighter at the same settings. Probably due to the screen filter on the VT60 and it being 5" bigger and power limits.

BTW, anyone have any lumps on the speaker grills of the VT60? I can see them if I look closely, especially in the sunlight and feel them if I run my finger down the grills. I have 2 on the left grill near the middle. I can't capture it clearly on camera.
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Old 06-16-2014, 04:13 PM
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Sorry if this has been covered but I'm about to pick up a PS4. Can you anyone suggest the correct settings for the VT60? Mostly concerned with output - RGB Full/Limited etc.
If you don't want YCbCr, then set PS4 to RGB Full. The VT60 is set to Limited by default, you'll have to go to Advanced Picture>HDMI/DVI RGB Range and set your input to Auto(recommended) or Nonstandard.

Question for the videophiles. Since the VT60 can do true YCbCr 4:4:4, should I use YCbCr444 on PC gaming with "1080p Pure Direct"? Or does Full RGB really give me the best result?

It's just getting really annoying switching between the two color formats for games and movies, topped by the "Pure Direct" setting since apparently it decodes RGB very badly.
I will tell you that when Chad B. Calibrated my TV he determined setting my Oppo 103 to RGB provided best detail and color resolution.
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Old 06-17-2014, 02:29 AM
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I will tell you that when Chad B. Calibrated my TV he determined setting my Oppo 103 to RGB provided best detail and color resolution.
Interesting! Might give that a try and run some tests. Can you tell me what other settings he used for the 103? Deep Color etc?
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:54 AM
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I will tell you that when Chad B. Calibrated my TV he determined setting my Oppo 103 to RGB provided best detail and color resolution.
When my zt-60 was calib by D-nice it was done in rgb movies mastered in 4k like Elysium look spectacular
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Old 06-17-2014, 10:42 PM
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I must've missed that Cnet memo/remark/finding.

Actually, I was thinking long-term here, beyond the break-in and into the thousands of hours of usage. Inevitable upwards drift? I would like to see some evidence of that as well. I know some Kuros have done it (along with more extreme cases with Viera models from earlier years) but have seen no evidence to suggest that yet on the 2013 models.
David Mackenzie has some interesting remarks to make about his S60 with 7000+ hours on the clock:

"Black level measured at 0.009 cd/m2, the same as the 50-series when new. I wonder what it was when this thing was new? Either way, it's excellent and would suggest Panasonic did fix the rising black issue."

Source link:

http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9172.0

Different model, but nevertheless that does make me somewhat hopeful.
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Old 06-18-2014, 04:32 AM
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David Mackenzie has some interesting remarks to make about his S60 with 7000+ hours on the clock:

"Black level measured at 0.009 cd/m2, the same as the 50-series when new. I wonder what it was when this thing was new? Either way, it's excellent and would suggest Panasonic did fix the rising black issue."

Source link:

http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9172.0

Different model, but nevertheless that does make me somewhat hopeful.
My understanding is that the rising black "feature" was eliminated in 2012 when Panasonic changed the panel driving method. I have never seen any reports of rising blacks on either the 2012 or 2013 models.

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Old 06-18-2014, 11:00 AM
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My understanding is that the rising black "feature" was eliminated in 2012 when Panasonic changed the panel driving method. I have never seen any reports of rising blacks on either the 2012 or 2013 models.
Agreed.


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Old 06-18-2014, 11:47 AM
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My understanding is that the rising black "feature" was eliminated in 2012 when Panasonic changed the panel driving method. I have never seen any reports of rising blacks on either the 2012 or 2013 models.
Certainly, the black level of my 2012 model (UK GT50) did not rise in any visible way.
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Old 06-18-2014, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by fluxo View Post
David Mackenzie has some interesting remarks to make about his S60 with 7000+ hours on the clock:

"Black level measured at 0.009 cd/m2, the same as the 50-series when new. I wonder what it was when this thing was new? Either way, it's excellent and would suggest Panasonic did fix the rising black issue."

Source link:

http://forums.hdtvtest.co.uk/index.php?topic=9172.0

Different model, but nevertheless that does make me somewhat hopeful.
Ya and this is a s60 which were measured around .0025 in a few reviews last year, looks like the blacks didn't budge after 7000+ hours.

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Old 06-18-2014, 09:36 PM
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I've noticed absolutely zero IR on my VT60 thus far. It's remarkable to me because my ST60 would seriously display IR in mere seconds of displaying content even when at a modest 55 contrast.

I game a lot and the VT in my opinion is the best gaming set out right now no doubt. We'll see how it fairs next week when I'm playing tons of EA UFC on it - it should be fine being that I'm playing at a pedestrian 55 contrast (still fantastic pop).
65" VT60 here.

World of Tanks has left a faint circle on the bottom of both sides, where the map and tank view (whatever it's called) are. Have run screen wipe a bit. Got a little better, but still there.
Have not been playing the game for hours and hours on end with no break. A couple hours in the evenings.
Hope it'll get better. Pretty disappointed about it right now. Had the TV since Thanksgiving, no issues with it so far until now.
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