Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 484 - AVS Forum
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post #14491 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 04:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post
So are the VT60's "inky" blacks only supposed to make their debut during bright scenes? Mine only get deep during that, otherwise I can faintly see the frame of the set from the black 16:9 bars.


My girlfriend commented on the black level without me even saying anything by saying that "the thing where you couldn't tell the difference between the bars and the edge of the TV isn't as good on this one" my other TV was a 50ST60 and I'm now on a 65VT60. Can't decide whether on not the glow of my blacks is normal or not?
What type of room lighting are you watching in? Are you sure your brightness level is set correctly using a test pattern to confirm?
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post #14492 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 09:03 AM
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The blacks will change based on content. They also seem to get deeper as the set ages. Consider getting your set calibrated to improve the shadow and black detail.
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post #14493 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
What type of room lighting are you watching in? Are you sure your brightness level is set correctly using a test pattern to confirm?
Pitch black? My walls are white though and I have a 65 in a small room so I'm thinking it's lighting the room up. Still it wouldn't cause what I'm seeing here.
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post #14494 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 09:37 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
What type of room lighting are you watching in? Are you sure your brightness level is set correctly using a test pattern to confirm?
Pitch black? My walls are white though and I have a 65 in a small room so I'm thinking it's lighting the room up. Still it wouldn't cause what I'm seeing here.
Temper your expectations. The screen will still glow with low APL content in a pitch black room. Just keep your eyes on the upcoming OLEDs...
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post #14495 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Temper your expectations. The screen will still glow with low APL content in a pitch black room. Just keep your eyes on the upcoming OLEDs...

Well I understand that, it just seems that my 50" ST60 had deeper blacks? Does size impact perceived black level at all?
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post #14496 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 11:44 AM
 
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I imagine it could since it's a significantly greater surface area.
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post #14497 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 12:34 PM
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I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.
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post #14498 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Vegeta View Post
Purchased a 55VT60 although I already had a 50GT60. I've noticed the VT60 is much duller (about 30% less brighter) than the GT60 which I didn't expect. There also doesn't seem to be any difference between contrast at 80 or 100. Is this normal?


My GT60 got eye searing bright.

Just being doing some testing. The brightness of my VT60 is fine for watching TV programs and movies but didn't look very punchy like the GT60 for gaming. Setting panel luminance to HIGH and contrast to 60 matches what the GT60 could do with panel luminance at MID and contrast at 70 but I have read it is difficult to calibrate the picture with the HIGH luminance setting. Any advice?

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Originally Posted by glemsom View Post
I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.

I have a VT60 and it is far more resistant to image retention than the GT60 that I also have. It varies set to set but also model to model.
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post #14499 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 02:24 PM
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So I was watching a redbox 2D BD rental of the movie "Her" when "3D signal detected" warning came up about 3 times during the movie. I just ignored it but was wondering if this is a disc issue more than anything else as I've never seen this before on my set.

Anyone rented this movie yet from redbox?
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post #14500 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by glemsom View Post
I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.
Welcome to AVS.

There is image retention information that you may find helpful, but unfortunately is seems that the new AVS web software has corrupted links to older information for the time being. Normally I would include links to other posts discussing the nature of image retention and some cures that help. We hope that AVS will get the bugs worked out ASP.

You do not have burn-in, but it sounds like you have some stubborn image retention. With time and some effort on your part, your problem can be solved.

First, burn-in is permanent and image retention (IR) is temporary. Some IR takes very little time to go away, but other types of IR may take much longer. There is no way to predict how long a given case of IR will take to dissipate. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the time it takes to get IR, and the time it takes to get rid of it.

Methods that have worked for vast numbers of plasma owners include avoiding the fixed image logo that is causing your problem and let nature take it's course by continuing to use your TV. To speed things up a lot of people have had good results using the pixel flipper that's included in the Disney WoW calibration disk, and a lot of others have had good luck using Pixar movies with 1.78:1 aspect ratios. The point is to age the pixels randomly until the area effected by IR comes in line with the rest of the screen.

You can also look into the settings you are using on your display. The brighter the screen settings, the more likely that a bright fixed image (some logos) will be retained. Other channels with low contrast and transparent logos aren't as dangerous.

Good luck.
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post #14501 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Chere View Post
So I was watching a redbox 2D BD rental of the movie "Her" when "3D signal detected" warning came up about 3 times during the movie. I just ignored it but was wondering if this is a disc issue more than anything else as I've never seen this before on my set.

Anyone rented this movie yet from redbox?
I've actually had this happen when watching a movie on dvr that i recorded from cable.
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post #14502 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rickydenim View Post

Thanks for this! I changed the RBG HDMI setting to full on the VT60 and then to Full on the PS4 and at first thought it looked OK but then realised it it washed out with greyish blacks. I've gone back to limited on the PS4 and 'Normal' on the VT60 and the blacks are back. Are there any other settings I'm missing to be able to use Full properly?

Thanks!
Not a problem, but it should have looked the same as Limited with Full on both devices. You should also try leaving the VT60 on Auto range for RGB (so far it's been detecting correctly for me), and then try switching formats on output devices. This way the VT60 will always be set correctly. Just make sure you really are getting correct blacks, because you might be so used to crushed blacks, correct looks washed out. A 0-25 black shade pattern like this should help, using the PS4 browser.[/QUOTE]

Hmm..I'll try the auto setting and see how the pattern looks. I did load that pattern into the PS4 browser and used 'full screen' but the first few boxes were way to bright/grey. That's when I realised it wasn't right. When I changed back they were nice and inky but could be still differentiated. I'll see how this goes!
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post #14503 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by glemsom View Post
I've had my ST60 for a few months now.
It's great for watching movies - but, I must admit it's not very usefull for watching TV!
As a lot of people tell you, the days are ower with burn-in issues in plasma are over... This does NOT count for the ST60.
I watched a rather long movie (about 4 hours) on this TV, and now I have a permanent channel logo burned into the screen. I've tried running the "screen wash" for hours, but no luck at all... the logo is still there.

So, if you need a set for watching bluray/dvd's - this is perfect!! Just don't use it for watching TV channels with logo's.
Welcome to AVS.

There is image retention information that you may find helpful, but unfortunately is seems that the new AVS web software has corrupted links to older information for the time being. Normally I would include links to other posts discussing the nature of image retention and some cures that help. We hope that AVS will get the bugs worked out ASP.

You do not have burn-in, but it sounds like you have some stubborn image retention. With time and some effort on your part, your problem can be solved.

First, burn-in is permanent and image retention (IR) is temporary. Some IR takes very little time to go away, but other types of IR may take much longer. There is no way to predict how long a given case of IR will take to dissipate. There doesn't seem to be any correlation between the time it takes to get IR, and the time it takes to get rid of it.

Methods that have worked for vast numbers of plasma owners include avoiding the fixed image logo that is causing your problem and let nature take it's course by continuing to use your TV. To speed things up a lot of people have had good results using the pixel flipper that's included in the Disney WoW calibration disk, and a lot of others have had good luck using Pixar movies with 1.78:1 aspect ratios. The point is to age the pixels randomly until the area effected by IR comes in line with the rest of the screen.

You can also look into the settings you are using on your display. The brighter the screen settings, the more likely that a bright fixed image (some logos) will be retained. Other channels with low contrast and transparent logos aren't as dangerous.

Good luck.
I thought I'd just briefly add my experience of IR (or perhaps burn-in) on my VT60.
When I bought my VT60 (my first plasma) a few months ago I was naive and just starting watching it without due care and attention on THX cinema. I soon got three areas of IR (FOX SPORTS HD, SKY NEWS HD a,d BBC World News). I tried everything, the inbuilt screen wipe for days, various slide sequences recommended to remove IR etc etc. Nothing worked and I was becoming resigned to having "burn-in".
After reading this forum I became aware of dnice's setting for the VT60 but as the set had over 500 hours on it it seemed pointless to run his slides for 100 hours before using his settings. I just set the TV up with his settings (amazing). Once this was done I ran the screen wipe for around 6 hours, the 3 areas of IR were gone!
It might have been the high contrast and bright panel settings that made the difference but whatever it was I was really amazed at how quickly the screen cleared-up.
The pros on this forum may have some comment and especially on running the screen wipe using dnice settings but for me it worked a treat.

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post #14504 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 05:32 PM
 
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I take it you used his night settings and not the more recently shared day settings (as the latter uses high panel brightness). That's interesting how quickly and thoroughly the wipe function worked with his settings specifically. Everyone seems to have a slightly different solution when it comes to IR removal success stories on these beasts.
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post #14505 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 06:01 PM
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I take it you used his night settings and not the more recently shared day settings (as the latter uses high panel brightness). That's interesting how quickly and thoroughly the wipe function worked with his settings specifically. Everyone seems to have a slightly different solution when it comes to IR removal success stories on these beasts.
Actually I was using the day settings for the wipe, I have those set under Professional 1 and the night under Professional. The panel brightness was high therefore during the wipe. I agree with you for sure, the IR issue seems to have different solutions but finding this one that cleared it so effectively and quickly has me sold on it.

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post #14506 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 06:02 PM
 
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Well, maybe you inadvertently honed in on a solution...panel brightness high!
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post #14507 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 06:06 PM
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Well, maybe you inadvertently honed in on a solution...panel brightness high!
Not sure that it was just the panel brightness but you could be right, panel brightness may have played a big part in it. The setting I was using were as per dnice's post from around a year ago, Has he updated these do you know?

2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread

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post #14508 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 06:18 PM
 
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I think it was only in the last several months that he added high panel brightness settings. It was just the regular ISF night setting he had shared previously.
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post #14509 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 06:19 PM
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I think it was only in the last several months that he added high panel brightness settings. It was just the regular ISF night setting he had shared previously.
Ah, I see, thanks.

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post #14510 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 07:37 PM
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Interesting. I assume the screen wipe had an internal setting that was set by Panasonic and not affected by picture presets. I'll have to check that out.

I've mostly used cnet settings at first. Now been using dnice setting for awhile. I have pixel orbitor on. My ir hasn't been stubborn. Everything has disappeared. I do tend to watch a lot of diffrent channels and shows.
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post #14511 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 07:47 PM
 
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Yea, I hadn't thought of that...you'd think the screen wipe settings were hardcoded and not configurable. I had been watching a lot of Netflix on the ZT60...but that navigation bar did it in.
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post #14512 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by eaayoung View Post
They also seem to get deeper as the set ages.
Is this with most high end Panasonic's or just VT60/ZT65s?
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post #14513 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 08:22 PM
 
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No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...

Last edited by vinnie97; 06-15-2014 at 08:45 PM.
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post #14514 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 08:41 PM
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Knew it was too good to be true.
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If anything, I'm seeing the opposite (that's what an OLED in the adjacent room will do to your perception ).
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post #14516 of 15379 Old 06-15-2014, 09:16 PM
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They also seem to get deeper as the set ages.
Is this with most high end Panasonic's or just VT60/ZT65s?
Only mean in first 100 hours. But, maybe just my imagination. Blacks also looked better after being calibrated.
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post #14517 of 15379 Old 06-16-2014, 04:07 AM
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No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...
Actually, cnet shows they do improve over the first few hundred hours before the inevitable drift upwards.

Mine certainly did. Out of the box my VT60 was actually a bit 'less black' than my fathers ST50. And yes we had them side by side.
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post #14518 of 15379 Old 06-16-2014, 04:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dabois09 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
Temper your expectations. The screen will still glow with low APL content in a pitch black room. Just keep your eyes on the upcoming OLEDs...

Well I understand that, it just seems that my 50" ST60 had deeper blacks? Does size impact perceived black level at all?
I have both the ST60 and the VT60, the VTs blacks are noticeably darker.

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post #14519 of 15379 Old 06-16-2014, 09:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post
No actual measurements have shown that to be the case as of yet (deeper blacks with age)...
Actually, cnet shows they do improve over the first few hundred hours before the inevitable drift upwards.

Mine certainly did. Out of the box my VT60 was actually a bit 'less black' than my fathers ST50. And yes we had them side by side.
I must've missed that Cnet memo/remark/finding.

Actually, I was thinking long-term here, beyond the break-in and into the thousands of hours of usage. Inevitable upwards drift? I would like to see some evidence of that as well. I know some Kuros have done it (along with more extreme cases with Viera models from earlier years) but have seen no evidence to suggest that yet on the 2013 models.

Last edited by vinnie97; 06-16-2014 at 09:50 AM.
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post #14520 of 15379 Old 06-16-2014, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I have both the ST60 and the VT60, the VTs blacks are noticeably darker.
I have the 50GT60 and 55VT60 and the blacks look the same but the GT60 is noticeably brighter at the same settings. Probably due to the screen filter on the VT60 and it being 5" bigger and power limits.

BTW, anyone have any lumps on the speaker grills of the VT60? I can see them if I look closely, especially in the sunlight and feel them if I run my finger down the grills. I have 2 on the left grill near the middle. I can't capture it clearly on camera.
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