Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 494 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14791 of 16517 Old 07-28-2014, 02:10 PM
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The Roku 3 streaming device only outputs RGB there is no other option. Is there a setting on the VT60 that will change it to the correct setting without turning the TV of and then on again. I suppose I could program a power cycle on the TV into my harmony one when choosing the watch Roku activity if necessary but that seems like a kluge. Thanks.

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post #14792 of 16517 Old 07-28-2014, 04:03 PM
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No.

It sounds like some source is outputting PC range or signaling PC range, 0-255. Your VT60 is expecting video range 16-235.
Therefor your black level will be as you described. Should have noting to do with RGB, as long as the signal is video range.

You could try and recycle your source when a change is made.

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Last edited by sillysally; 07-28-2014 at 04:14 PM.
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post #14793 of 16517 Old 07-28-2014, 04:27 PM
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What do the auto settings on RGB Range on the VT60 do then? With the HDMI/DVI RGB Range set to Auto shouldn't the TV auto detect the RGB range and adjust accordingly. The Roku does not have a setting option for PC or Video range. I guess I will play with it some more and see if I can come up with something, or reprogram the Harmony to power cycle the TV as the Roku does not have a power cycle command, it plugs in and that is it.

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post #14794 of 16517 Old 07-28-2014, 06:26 PM
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Hi all -

I have an odd issue.

I'm currently using my 55 VT60 as a computer monitor, primarily for playing games (Diablo 3). The PC is connected to the TV via a 15 foot HDMI cable.

My issue is that every minute or so (it's a bit random), text on screen shifts colors slightly and becomes out of focus, before focusing again. I've turned off all post processing aside from 444 direct, which I did toggle to test to see if that's what was doing this. I've tried HDMI 1 and HDMI 3, and even tried running the PC through my receiver and the problem persists.

I've got two other monitors connected via DVI and this issue isn't happening on those monitors.

I thought it might be the HDMI cable, but don't HDMI cables either work or don't work? Or is this a symptom of a bad HDMI cable? Is this a problem anyone else here has encountered?

I understand this is a strange issue, but if anyone has a solution or ideas for what might be causing this, I'm all ears.
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post #14795 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 04:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan134 View Post
Hi all -

My issue is that every minute or so (it's a bit random), text on screen shifts colors slightly and becomes out of focus, before focusing again.

I understand this is a strange issue, but if anyone has a solution or ideas for what might be causing this, I'm all ears.
You might try turning off Pixel Orbiter to see if that helps.
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post #14796 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 08:21 AM
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Pretty sure it's the pixel orbiter which is causing what you are seeing.

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post #14797 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 10:08 AM
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Most everything is based on RGB, and somewhere along the line are decoders and transcoders (conversion) involved.

I would suggest you start here to better understand about RGB and YCbCr .
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/YCbCr

You may even want to check out your HDMI cable, you would want a high speed 1.3 HDMI cable.

You also said something about a AVR in your chain, if you are running your Roku through your AVR look there also.
Also check out any Roku threads for issues.

The other things you could try with your VT60 is.
Turn Off 1080 Pure Direct.
HDMI content Type Off
Auto detail settings, Cinema Off
Try a different HDMI port in your VT60.
Do a factory reset.

When you say you switch to your Roku your backs get messed up, leads me to believe there is a miss communication somewhere in your chain.

There are many combinations (settings) in a video chain involving AVR, Roku, PS3, cable box, Blu Ray players, ect.

If none of the above suggestions help, I would run each device directly to your VT60 and see if there is any problems. At-least that way you can pin point the problem and go from there.

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post #14798 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 11:51 AM
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I have been using my HTPC with the VT60 since day 1. First thing to do (amongst other things on PC, like hide desktop icons and auto-hide taskbar) is turn Graphics OFF in HDMI Content Type. If you turn HDMI content type off completely, Game Mode will not turn on and off automatically when playing AAA games. Some indie games don't send the gaming flag to the TV for some reason. Leaving Pixel Orbiter on will slow down image retention but will show ghosting on text every minute or so. It is noticeable mostly on red text. I only turn it off when it's time for a Blu-Ray.

Now, about 1080p Pure Direct. Question for the experts. I only started leaving it on for PC a couple of months ago. The chroma sharpness finally matched my monitor's. I read that with an RGB signal, the VT60 converts RGB>YUV>RGB and it's best to leave Pure Direct off with RGB (the test was probably done with Limited Range RGB (16-235)). Can anyone else confirm this? If the set can only do YUV at 444, should I just set my GPU to YCbCr444? Or is Full RGB still more advantageous with this model?

Last edited by BldyBg; 07-30-2014 at 01:38 PM.
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post #14799 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 03:57 PM
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Hey guys, it was the pixel orbiter! Thanks for the quick response. I'll probably leave it on, but I just wanted to make sure nothing was wrong with my (very expensive) tv.
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post #14800 of 16517 Old 07-29-2014, 04:07 PM
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The other things you could try with your VT60 is.
Turn Off 1080 Pure Direct. This is already off
HDMI content Type Off I turned this off, it was set to Auto, not sure if it made a difference yet
Auto detail settings, Cinema Off This is also off as are all enhancement settings

I originally thought the issue was that video conversion was turned on in the AVR (Pioneer SC-1222), I switched the video conversion off so that the AVR is pass through only on video. The black level issue (blacks and black bars looked gray only on Roku, no other sources) persisted on the Roku when switching from another source (dish 722 dvr). Did some reading in the Roku forum here and someone said that it output only RGB not YCbCr and suggested changing the HDMI RGB Range setting and that it had fixed the same issue for them. The first time I changed this setting it immediately changed the black level on the Roku so that it was darker and looked correct. The next time I used the Roku I noticed the gray-blacks again. I tried power cycling the TV and that fixed it. Have been doing that manually for several weeks but would like to actually fix the issue rather than have to correct it manually. If the Roku is outputting PC video levels rather than normal video levels it seems that there should be a setting on the TV that will allow it to automatically detect the video level and adjust itself accordingly.

The Roku is a simple streaming device with minimal settings, no power on off command, the wall wart plugs into the wall and the power cord plugs into the back that is how you power it up. The only video options is setting it to 720 or 1080.

I will experiment with the HDMI input and taking the AVR out of the chain and see what if anything I find out from that. Thanks for the suggestions.

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post #14801 of 16517 Old 07-30-2014, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post
I have been using my HTPC with the VT60 since day 1. First thing to do (amongst other things on PC, like hide desktop icons and auto-hide taskbar) is turn Graphics OFF in HDMI Content Type. If you turn HDMI content type off completely, Game Mode will not turn on and off automatically when playing AAA games. Some indie games don't send the gaming flag to the TV for some reason. Leaving Pixel Orbiter on will slow down image retention but will show ghosting on text every minute or so. It is noticeable mostly on red text. I only turn it off when it's time for a Blu-Ray.

Now, about 1080p Pure Direct. Question for the experts. I only started leaving it on for PC a couple of months ago. The chroma sharpness finally matched my monitor's. I read that with an RGB signal, the VT60 converts RGB>YUV>RGB and it's best to leave Pure Direct off with RGB (the test was probably done with Limited Range RGB (16-235)). Can anyone else confirm this? If the set can only do YUV at 444, should I just set my GPU to YCbCr444? Or is Full RGB still more advantageous with this model?
Wow...you just figured something out for me that has bugged me since I bought my VT60 9 months ago!!!!

I have been manually turning Game mode on/off every time because when I first set up the TV I used some custom settings (DNice, SS etc which all say to turn all HDMI content types to "off". I thought that was the right move and that it only affected the picture. I did not realize it also affected the ability to autodetect games and change the game mode automatically...so now I have all of them turned off except for "Games".

Thanks so much!!

UPDATE: I have realized however that very few games actually apply this "flag" (at least the games I have). Only 1 PC game out of 4 and haven't found a PS3, PS4 or Xbox One game that does it...oh well...

Last edited by pdawg17; 07-31-2014 at 11:04 AM.
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post #14802 of 16517 Old 07-31-2014, 05:26 PM
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Silly Sally, Thanks for the recommendations, turning HDMI Content Type to off appears to have fixed the problem with the black levels when switching sources to the Roku box.

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post #14803 of 16517 Old 07-31-2014, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by pdawg17 View Post
Wow...you just figured something out for me that has bugged me since I bought my VT60 9 months ago!!!!

I have been manually turning Game mode on/off every time because when I first set up the TV I used some custom settings (DNice, SS etc which all say to turn all HDMI content types to "off". I thought that was the right move and that it only affected the picture. I did not realize it also affected the ability to autodetect games and change the game mode automatically...so now I have all of them turned off except for "Games".

Thanks so much!!

UPDATE: I have realized however that very few games actually apply this "flag" (at least the games I have). Only 1 PC game out of 4 and haven't found a PS3, PS4 or Xbox One game that does it...oh well...
My pleasure! Yes, not all games activate Game Mode. Most PC games that are available on consoles activate it. I've noticed that it's very likely linked to Vertical Sync.

You can try setting v-sync to Always On in your GPU control panel. If all else fails, and if you have an NVIDIA GPU, go to Adjust Desktop Color and change the last option to Games. This way, every time you switch the input to PC, Game Mode will always turn on. It's especially helpful if you use a mouse with the TV.
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post #14804 of 16517 Old 07-31-2014, 07:53 PM
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My pleasure! Yes, not all games activate Game Mode. Most PC games that are available on consoles activate it. I've noticed that it's very likely linked to Vertical Sync.

You can try setting v-sync to Always On in your GPU control panel. If all else fails, and if you have an NVIDIA GPU, go to Adjust Desktop Color and change the last option to Games. This way, every time you switch the input to PC, Game Mode will always turn on. It's especially helpful if you use a mouse with the TV.
So do you find that console games consistently turn on Game Mode for you? I tried a few last night and couldn't get any of them to do it...
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post #14805 of 16517 Old 07-31-2014, 08:32 PM
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So do you find that console games consistently turn on Game Mode for you? I tried a few last night and couldn't get any of them to do it...
I couldn't say because I ditched consoles for good when my PS3 died, and that happened a while before the VT60 was released. Unless you still mean PC games that are also released on consoles? Then I can name a few. All recent Ubisoft games (AC2 to AC4, FC3, Rayman Legends), all Square Enix games (Deus Ex: HR, Hitman: Absolution, Thief 2014), all the latest Bethesda games, all Rockstar games and all the upcoming big budget (AAA) games should turn it on. Basically, all the cross-platforms. I assume you're playing in Fullscreen (not windowed OR borderless). I can tell you for sure it's not something the TV is detecting or analyzing. It's an HDMI flag being sent to the TV, or something of the sort.
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post #14806 of 16517 Old 07-31-2014, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post
I couldn't say because I ditched consoles for good when my PS3 died, and that happened a while before the VT60 was released. Unless you still mean PC games that are also released on consoles? Then I can name a few. All recent Ubisoft games (AC2 to AC4, FC3, Rayman Legends), all Square Enix games (Deus Ex: HR, Hitman: Absolution, Thief 2014), all the latest Bethesda games, all Rockstar games and all the upcoming big budget (AAA) games should turn it on. Basically, all the cross-platforms. I assume you're playing in Fullscreen (not windowed OR borderless). I can tell you for sure it's not something the TV is detecting or analyzing. It's an HDMI flag being sent to the TV, or something of the sort.
Thanks for all the help. The PC now switches to game mode every time. Interestingly my Xbox One and PS3 do not switch yet the PS4 does as soon as it boots up...thanks again...
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post #14807 of 16517 Old 08-01-2014, 04:32 AM
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I've been running my PS4 with RGB full and the VT60 HDMI range to 'auto' and black level and color etc are great. Should I be setting Pure Direct to on also? Will it introduce latency?
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post #14808 of 16517 Old 08-01-2014, 08:52 PM
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Ok, I think I have a major issue with my VT60. As per above, I've been noticing a greenish tinge to white writing that's been noticeable for while. I've just popped my S&M disc in and ran the Chroma plate test. It's very clear from the white cross in the middle that it has magenta down one side and green on the other of everything white. So white is NOT solid. The color bars in the diamonds are also not centered and are to the left/right. The best I could get those was to set Oppo to output 4:2:2 instead of RGB.

I took the disc to my Kuro and it was perfect with the white cross in the centre perfectly solid. I then went back to the VT60 and on a close look, I can see the magenta/green outline even on the writing that comes up in the TV menu's - this rules out the Oppo or faulty HDMI cables etc.

Anyone have any ideas or should I be calling Panasonic?
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post #14809 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 06:06 AM
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Interesting!

I must admit, it was annoying going through a pack of six every 3 months but I tried to keep short quick blasts to make it last.
We used to use a scuba tank with an air blower attachment, good clean dry air.
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post #14810 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 01:27 PM
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Ok,
I've just popped my S&M disc in and ran the Chroma plate test. It's very clear from the white cross in the middle that it has magenta down one side and green on the other of everything white. So white is NOT solid. The color bars in the diamonds are also not centered and are to the left/right. The best I could get those was to set Oppo to output 4:2:2 instead of RGB.


Anyone have any ideas or should I be calling Panasonic?
Is there a Darbee in your video chain, when you ran the S&M disc chroma test.?

Pure Direct setting in your VT60 (as it says) is for 4:4:4.

I doubt there is anything basically wrong with your VT60.
You can try and use THX night mode with default settings, connect your Oppo directly (default settings) to your VT60 and see what happens.

If you are a critical viewer, you may want to get your VT60 calibrated by someone that is very good, and uses very high end meters.

Or DIY using at-least a D3 and a I1pro to profile your D3 to your display. Get a eecolor box and learn how to use ArgyllCMS software.

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post #14811 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 05:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Is there a Darbee in your video chain, when you ran the S&M disc chroma test.?

Pure Direct setting in your VT60 (as it says) is for 4:4:4.

I doubt there is anything basically wrong with your VT60.
You can try and use THX night mode with default settings, connect your Oppo directly (default settings) to your VT60 and see what happens.

If you are a critical viewer, you may want to get your VT60 calibrated by someone that is very good, and uses very high end meters.

Or DIY using at-least a D3 and a I1pro to profile your D3 to your display. Get a eecolor box and learn how to use ArgyllCMS software.

ss
I do have a Darby and did think it to be the culprit but I have taken it out of the chain and tested directly - still there. I've found that it's actually on the TV menu itself so I don't think the Oppo/settings etc is it.

Can you confirm if it's normal to see purple on the left, green on the right as a halo around white when looking very closely at the screen? I did find an old thread a few years back where someone had the same issue but the replies said this was basically the pixel structure and was normal. Perhaps my eyes are more sensitive to it so I am picking it up from further away?
The only thing is that I don't see this at all on my Kuro - different plasma tech possibly?

Purple and green halo around everything. Is this a characteristic of plasmas or is there a problem?
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post #14812 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 07:39 PM
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I think my vt has this too. You really have to be up close to the screen to see it. Do you notice the rainbow effect if you move your eyes left and right across your screen. Comparing it to your kuro. I just thought it was pixel structure.
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post #14813 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 08:28 PM
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I think my vt has this too. You really have to be up close to the screen to see it. Do you notice the rainbow effect if you move your eyes left and right across your screen. Comparing it to your kuro. I just thought it was pixel structure.
I don't really see the rainbow effect but just more of a green after-trail sort of thing. My wife can't see it all!

Doesn't happen on the Kuro at all which is why I thought it may be an issue.
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post #14814 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 09:49 PM
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From what you said about the "Chroma plate test", I think what you mean is the Chroma Alignment test.

I had one stand alone Darbee and there is a Darbee in my Lumagen 2041. With both Darbee's there was errors in the Chroma test using S&M disc. This has been reported by others also.

You can do one of two simple test's.
Run the Screen wipe or download a 100% full screen white pattern to a thumb drive, plug it into your VT60 and display it. Use THX Cinema mode.

Now do you see the magenta or green bars on each side. If you do its time to call Panasonic, if not the issue is in your settings or in your video chain.

The VT60 is very capable of being fairly close to reference. But you need the right tools and software to get it there.

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post #14815 of 16517 Old 08-02-2014, 11:56 PM
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Sorry, you are correct - it was the Chroma alignment test.

I took a quick screen shot with my phone to show you what I am seeing. I literally just turned the TV on with no other components and pressed Menu. This is right up as close as I could get and it shows the effect I'm seeing - it's not as bad as the pic looks obviously from a distance but I'm noticing it all the same.
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post #14816 of 16517 Old 08-03-2014, 09:28 AM
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^^

What you're seeing is completely normal. The blue-red-green sub-pixels that make up a full pixel are located adjacent to one another. Since it takes illumination of all three sub-pixels to make a white full pixel, you'll see blue color fringing on the left side of white text and green color fringing on the right.
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post #14817 of 16517 Old 08-04-2014, 01:57 AM
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^^

What you're seeing is completely normal. The blue-red-green sub-pixels that make up a full pixel are located adjacent to one another. Since it takes illumination of all three sub-pixels to make a white full pixel, you'll see blue color fringing on the left side of white text and green color fringing on the right.
Thanks for the info. Do you think I'm seeing this more-so due to it's size? (65") I can get right up close to my Kuro and not see this at all - different pixel illumination method perhaps?
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post #14818 of 16517 Old 08-08-2014, 06:48 AM
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I STILL have BURN IN in my 60VT60...

I've tried all these screen wipes on Youtube, I tried the screen wipe built into the TV... It won't go away..

The worst part is it's in the middle of the screen!! Its a little bar. It was from playing Pandora on my Oppo Player. (There's no screen saver on it.) Without realizing that it would burn in.

Does anyone have any fixes for burn in???
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post #14819 of 16517 Old 08-08-2014, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Ejs71 View Post
I STILL have BURN IN in my 60VT60...

I've tried all these screen wipes on Youtube, I tried the screen wipe built into the TV... It won't go away..

The worst part is it's in the middle of the screen!! Its a little bar. It was from playing Pandora on my Oppo Player. (There's no screen saver on it.) Without realizing that it would burn in.

Does anyone have any fixes for burn in???
First, don't freak out!

The following is all from (bad) experience. This is not something that will go away anytime soon, no matter how much you wipe or worry about it. Every night, before you go to bed, set the timer to 90 minutes and leave screen wipe on. Or forget the timer, enable the auto "Power Off after 4 hours" function (which should already be enabled), and screen wipe will go on for 4 hours.

If you use the timer with TV content, the little timer logo will show for the last 3 minutes and risk burning in as well. This does not happen during screen wipe. You should start seeing results from a few weeks to a few months.

Basically, accept that it's there and try to forget about it. You had two options while using Pandora: using Screen Wipe while playing music, or turning "Screen Display" off which is specifically intended for music. Remember these.
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post #14820 of 16517 Old 08-08-2014, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ejs71 View Post
Does anyone have any fixes for burn in???
There is no way to "fix" burn in.

That's not what you have.

You have image retention, and it will go away over time if you avoid the activity that caused it.
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