Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 497 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14881 of 16517 Old 08-21-2014, 11:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BldyBg View Post
When running screen wipe, a handful of pixels, 5-10, scattered throughout the newly lit area take a few milliseconds longer to light up than the rest of the vertical lit-up area. This is only noticeable up close. This will look like black dots at the end of the moving white rectangle.

Normal viewing seems fine, and this behavior is understandable since screen wipe probably takes up more power.

I just don't remember seeing this a few months ago, I've had it for a while. Does anybody else notice this? Is this a normal sign of aging? Status4 in Version info states its been on for a total of 6628hrs. I'm probably worrying about nothing, just curious about your thoughts.

Thanks.
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Originally Posted by Jason626 View Post
That behavior sounds like mine. My tv has about 1200 hours on it. I think that it's normal.
Yeah I see the black dots as well when running the screen wipe, I am at 900 hours.

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post #14882 of 16517 Old 08-23-2014, 06:15 PM
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Most noticable on flesh tones

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Quote:Originally Posted by hazel_wu

I just got my 60VT60 not too long ago and was watching Insidious Chapter 2. At around 6:30 mark there is a panning shot of a woman walking through rooms. There are some white candles close to the camera. During the panning shot, I noticed right away that there are some rainbow, or wrong colors on the candles. The candles should be white, but during motion it has some green/red colors. It is seen on both 48hz and 96hz but never on 60hz. Motion smoother settings does not change the bad color effect. The bad colors fade right away when the camera stops panning. It is seen only during motion and only with 48hz and 96hz, but since it is not happening with 60hz I am sure it is not something wrong with the way the movie was compressed. I can not see the problem if I pause the movie during the panning either. On another movie, the same effect happened during a panning shot across the room on someone's face. It happens both from PC and my PS3 BD at 1080p/24 so I'm pretty sure it is the TV that is causing this.

Anyone else experienced something similar? I think I found one person reported something similar but no one ever replied to him.
Any settings that can fix this problem?


Yes, I experience that artifact - which is called false contouring - several times during any movie at 96hz which is why I avoid it and use 60hz exclusively. 96hz will also exhibit very subtle image flickering on some very bright scenes. 96hz will give slightly smoother panning in some scenes, but 60hz is still good and more robust.


I have this issue on mine though it shows itself mostly with movement of people. Its almost like the red/green/blue isn't synced up right


Any ideas? Switching between 96/60 hz doesn't do much

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post #14883 of 16517 Old 08-23-2014, 10:27 PM
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Using Panel Brightness Low

Anyone tried using panel rightness low with their VT60s? The one thing that gets to me with my 65VT60 is dithering probably because I only sit 9.5 feet away and can't move any further back (small living room ). I know overall brightness is a sacrifice in this scenario but I wanted to see if some of the more knowledgeable calibrators here have been able to get an acceptable sharp picture for dark night time viewing.

I'll definitely bring this up with D-Nice when he comes to calibrate my set which I hope will be very soon.....
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post #14884 of 16517 Old 08-24-2014, 06:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake518 View Post
I've had my VT60 for about 8 months now and the other night there was a click sound while I was watching the TV and the left four inches of the screen went black. I've tried changing the inputs, disconnecting the tv and reconnecting everything, and it just looks like those four inches are black.

I've called Panasonic and they informed me it must be a bad screen, but since the VT60's aren't made any longer, they don't have the parts to repair it. The only silver lining is they said they'll completely refund the TV for me, since it's under warranty. It's a shame though... I really loved this TV and the picture quality was amazing.

Oh well... time to find a new TV
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
Man, what a bummer. Sorry to hear that. It's ashamed such a great TV at what was a very reasonable price is no longer being made.
Ask for a replacement....65" AX800U
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post #14885 of 16517 Old 08-24-2014, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Anyone tried using panel rightness low with their VT60s? The one thing that gets to me with my 65VT60 is dithering probably because I only sit 9.5 feet away and can't move any further back (small living room ). I know overall brightness is a sacrifice in this scenario but I wanted to see if some of the more knowledgeable calibrators here have been able to get an acceptable sharp picture for dark night time viewing.

I'll definitely bring this up with D-Nice when he comes to calibrate my set which I hope will be very soon.....
It sounds like a calibration and/or source issue as you're not going to see dithering from 9.5 feet back.


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post #14886 of 16517 Old 08-24-2014, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MeatHead88 View Post
I have this issue on mine though it shows itself mostly with movement of people. Its almost like the red/green/blue isn't synced up right


Any ideas? Switching between 96/60 hz doesn't do much
The false contouring definitely doesn't happen at 60hz, so it sounds like it could be another issue. Do you see it on Blu-ray sources too?
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post #14887 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 02:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
...Also, is THX Cinema available when using Netflix? I'm only able to use Custom, Cinema, Prof1, Prof2, and Vivid.

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Originally Posted by Donat76 View Post
I don't think it's available for Netflix. I used either Home Theater or Cinema, I can't remember for sure.

I know for a fact you cannot choose THX Cinema! What puzzles (and annoys) me is why they have designed it like this. Why would you disable the best (non pro cal) setting in all the apps? It basically makes the internal Netflix app unusable, forcing you to use an external player/box. (Unless of course you go for a pro calibration $$$)


Can anybody explain this?
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post #14888 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 04:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Anyone tried using panel rightness low with their VT60s? The one thing that gets to me with my 65VT60 is dithering probably because I only sit 9.5 feet away and can't move any further back (small living room ). I know overall brightness is a sacrifice in this scenario but I wanted to see if some of the more knowledgeable calibrators here have been able to get an acceptable sharp picture for dark night time viewing.

I'll definitely bring this up with D-Nice when he comes to calibrate my set which I hope will be very soon.....
The other downside to low panel brightness is degraded blacks, definitely will reduce dithering guess it depends on whether the reduced light output and elevated mll are more important than the dithering.

55EG9100 calibrated by Chad_B
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My JS9500 Calibration review(CHADB)http://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-lc...l#post36534866

Last edited by chunon; 08-25-2014 at 06:37 AM.
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post #14889 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Anyone tried using panel rightness low with their VT60s? The one thing that gets to me with my 65VT60 is dithering probably because I only sit 9.5 feet away and can't move any further back (small living room ). I know overall brightness is a sacrifice in this scenario but I wanted to see if some of the more knowledgeable calibrators here have been able to get an acceptable sharp picture for dark night time viewing.

I'll definitely bring this up with D-Nice when he comes to calibrate my set which I hope will be very soon.....
Ooops...misread your post and see you mentioned low panel brightness...what Chunon said.


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post #14890 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 08:44 AM
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Would you guys have any concerns or reservations purchasing a VT60 with zero hours and no warranty coverage.
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post #14891 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Would you guys have any concerns or reservations purchasing a VT60 with zero hours and no warranty coverage.
Depends on what you are paying ? Its a calculated risk but the odds are in your favor for the set lasting for a while. 4250 hours and going strong for me

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post #14892 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by butch666 View Post
I know for a fact you cannot choose THX Cinema! What puzzles (and annoys) me is why they have designed it like this. Why would you disable the best (non pro cal) setting in all the apps? It basically makes the internal Netflix app unusable, forcing you to use an external player/box. (Unless of course you go for a pro calibration $$$)


Can anybody explain this?
Another thing that puzzles me is the fact that there is no aspect ratio control with apps and streaming services... I watch a lot of old DOCTOR WHO episodes on Amazon Prime, and they are all 4:3, of course. There is no way to zoom in, stretch the image using "H Fill Mode", etc., and I'm always worried about IR in those cases, so I have to limit my viewing to 20 minute intervals or so. Really frustrating...
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post #14893 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Jake518 View Post
Thanks for the condolences on the issues I've had with my VT60. I just received word from Panasonic that the shipping company will be picking up the TV in the new few days. As nice as Panasonic has been, I really wish they'd have tried to repair the TV. What people have said about having trouble finding an adequate replacement seems true. Though I have some cash to get a new TV, I don't think I'm going to find anything as good in that price range (~$2000).

Right now, I'm looking at the Samsung 64" F8500 as a possibility, if I can find a good deal over the next few months (currently out of my price range). If anyone has any other recommendations for ~65" tv (plasma/lcd/led), I'm all ears. Feel free to PM me. As much as I love researching stuff, I was completely happy with the VT60, so kind of frustrated. Thanks!
If you are OK with no smart features, no AR filter, and pentile screen, the 64H5000 can be had for around $1000. It's blacks are lower than the F8500, and you'd save $1000 that you could put towards an OLED in a couple years.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h...1403143657.htm
http://televisions.reviewed.com/cont...asma-tv-review
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post #14894 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 09:37 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
If you are OK with no smart features, no AR filter, and pentile screen, the 64H5000 can be had for around $1000. It's blacks are lower than the F8500, and you'd save $1000 that you could put towards an OLED in a couple years.
Where can you find this set for around $1K?
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post #14895 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post
If you are OK with no smart features, no AR filter, and pentile screen, the 64H5000 can be had for around $1000. It's blacks are lower than the F8500, and you'd save $1000 that you could put towards an OLED in a couple years.

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/pn64h...1403143657.htm
http://televisions.reviewed.com/cont...asma-tv-review
That's a definite possibility. I really can't afford the extra $800-$1000 a F8500 would cost me. So instead of going high end, get something reasonable right now that look towards an OLED down the line.

Upon my suggestion for a replacement panel, Panasonic did mention they were going to see if they could locate a ST60 as a replacement. As long as they credit the difference in cost between the ST to VT, I'd be willing to make the downgrade. I should know later today or tomorrow if they can make that happen.
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post #14896 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by gosas View Post
Thank you very much mo

Does it make a difference if its an expensive transformer instead of the cheapest one I can find in ebay? and how can I judge witch one is right for a TV? I really love this set and I dont want anything to go *BOOM* in there :S I have blown things like that in the past

using a PAL/NTSC convertion will give judder to the image right? I guess there no way on fixing that what a shame

EDIT: also would flashing a European firmware in the tv enable pal? or is it hardware related?
In the transformer department I don't really know enough to really comment. The electricity stability from one country to the next can be spotty and the voltages can vary a lot throughout the day, so I guess you'd need a transformer that is more likely to handle where you'll be better.

The conversion will add Judder just like you suspect - how visible it is to you is of course dependent on how sensitive you are to judder in the first place.

Firmware should theoretically be able to make it work since we know that the display components are physically capable of 50hz, but I don't think the EU software will be compatible with the US set since the components are different and the firmware deals with more than just the display refresh.

If you can try it on the cheap, might as well give it a shot.

I wish you luck!
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post #14897 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Would you guys have any concerns or reservations purchasing a VT60 with zero hours and no warranty coverage.
Since the hours can be reset to zero, I would suspect the owner's story unless there was a way to verify it. Without more detailed information it's hard to say how suspicious it is.
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post #14898 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by butch666 View Post
I know for a fact you cannot choose THX Cinema! What puzzles (and annoys) me is why they have designed it like this. Why would you disable the best (non pro cal) setting in all the apps? It basically makes the internal Netflix app unusable, forcing you to use an external player/box. (Unless of course you go for a pro calibration $$$)


Can anybody explain this?
If the streaming application takes control, then you would have to make your choices before you run the application. Have you tried that?
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post #14899 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
Since the hours can be reset to zero, I would suspect the owner's story unless there was a way to verify it. Without more detailed information it's hard to say how suspicious it is.
Are resetting the hours a simple task? Can they be easily confirmed?
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post #14900 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chere View Post
Anyone tried using panel rightness low with their VT60s? The one thing that gets to me with my 65VT60 is dithering probably because I only sit 9.5 feet away and can't move any further back (small living room ). I know overall brightness is a sacrifice in this scenario but I wanted to see if some of the more knowledgeable calibrators here have been able to get an acceptable sharp picture for dark night time viewing.

I'll definitely bring this up with D-Nice when he comes to calibrate my set which I hope will be very soon.....
Your problem isn't with low, mid panel brightness. Its in how you have adjusted your contrast, brightness and sharpness controls. Of-course this is saying what you are seeing is not caused by your source player/material.

For now use one of the THX modes.
Download the free AVS HD 709 calibration disc or better still Ted's calibration disc.
Run the Brightness flashing pattern, using your brightness control set your brightness in a dark room, seeing no more than the 18 flashing bar (17 bar almost, if not gone completely).
Use the flashing contrast pattern. Adjust your contrast control to at-least seeing the 242 or higher flashing pattern.
With both the contrast and brightness patterns you should only see different shades of gray.
Set sharpness to 0.

Its also best to disable any enhancements. If you are using a Darbee, turn it down and see if that helps.

When D-Nice comes out, he will set your grayscale, gamma, rgb balance, gamut/CMS, ect.

I sit between 8 and 9 feet from my 65VT60, I see no problems at all. At night all the lights are off and I can view for hours with no eye fatigue. My peak white is about 35FL and black level is about 0.0013FL, therefore contrast ratio is very good. That's what make's the picture really pop, if the player/material is well mastered.

ss
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post #14901 of 16517 Old 08-25-2014, 10:51 PM
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Does anyone know where or if there is a calibration settings thread for the vt60?? I could of swore there used to be one?

Panasonic GT50 55"
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post #14902 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 12:48 AM
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Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
If the streaming application takes control, then you would have to make your choices before you run the application. Have you tried that?

As far as I can tell (= 99.9% sure) pre-selecting THX cinema, and then switching to the application doesn't make a difference. As soon as the app is launched the picture setting is changed.
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post #14903 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 12:55 AM
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Originally Posted by B T C View Post
Are resetting the hours a simple task? Can they be easily confirmed?
I don't own a VT60 but I suspect that it's easy to do. No matter what the price or hours, it's going to be up to you to decide if you can afford to take a total loss on the set. If the owner bought the set from a dealer he will have a receipt giving the price, date of purchase, and if it's a new set with full warranty. Many demo sets are sold with full warranties too. I'm not sure about opened box sets that have been returned.

Panasonic doesn't seem to have any replacement panels for their 2013 models, but they have been refunding the purchase price. One big worry is that the owner has found what he thinks is a micro crack in the screen that a buyer might not spot. Tiny cracks grow bigger and when they get big enough the panel dies.

The combination of no warranty and zero hours doesn't make sense to me.
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post #14904 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 04:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htwaits View Post
I don't own a VT60 but I suspect that it's easy to do. No matter what the price or hours, it's going to be up to you to decide if you can afford to take a total loss on the set. If the owner bought the set from a dealer he will have a receipt giving the price, date of purchase, and if it's a new set with full warranty. Many demo sets are sold with full warranties too. I'm not sure about opened box sets that have been returned.

Panasonic doesn't seem to have any replacement panels for their 2013 models, but they have been refunding the purchase price. One big worry is that the owner has found what he thinks is a micro crack in the screen that a buyer might not spot. Tiny cracks grow bigger and when they get big enough the panel dies.

The combination of no warranty and zero hours doesn't make sense to me.
The set would still be under warranty to the current owner, but Panasonic's warranty would not transfer to a new owner, and the current owner did not purchase a transferable extended warranty. I just wanted to clarify that the no warranty situation would apply to whoever purchases the set. I believe he is selling due to an uncontrollable lighting situation in the house.

I understand the total loss risk.
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post #14905 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post
Your problem isn't with low, mid panel brightness. Its in how you have adjusted your contrast, brightness and sharpness controls. Of-course this is saying what you are seeing is not caused by your source player/material.

For now use one of the THX modes.
Download the free AVS HD 709 calibration disc or better still Ted's calibration disc.
Even using only a calibration disk needs some basic knowledge of the display controls etc. and the purpose of using them.

Can we say that by using a calibration disk only that a display is calibrated? No, this requires meter/software/knowledge, but can improve a lot the factory default settings and it’s better solution from copying display settings from web.

We can say that using a calibration disk without having meter/software you can do plenty of things, for example using Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk:



1. Display a Brightness Pattern to set the Black Level (Brightness Control) of the Display; to prevent crushing of shadow details or raised black levels.



2. Display a Contrast Pattern to set the White Level (Contrast Control) of the Display; to prevent color detail clipping up to peak white levels and above reference white level color shifts/discoloration. The limitation to this is that you don’t know you peak output without a meter/software to measure the 100% White patch.



3. Use Sharpness Pattern to prevent edge enhancement (halo/ringing effect) or soft contouring (blurring of the image details).

You can check using that Sharpness Pattern some display settings like: Reality Creation, Noise Reduction, MPEG Noise Reduction, Dot Noise Reduction, Noise Filtering, Detail Enhancer, Edge Enhancer, Super Resolution, Digital Clear View to see how they are affecting your image resolution.



4. Use Color Clipping Pattern to prevent clipping of each color channel (RGB), this sometimes can be fixed be removing some clicks from the contrast control also.

You can check display settings like Live Color, Dynamic Color or Color Enhancer etc.



5. Display a Grayscale Ramp Pattern and find by swapping thru the available color temperature modes (normal/warm1/warm2 etc) of your display; which looks more neutral to your eyes. (It's guessing by the user selection), but Don’t try to fix the RGB Balance based to your eyes and tweak the RGB-High/Low Controls without meter/software.



6. Display a Grayscale Full Step Pattern and check your various enhancements controls of your display; Advance Contrast, Black Tone, Black Correction, Advanced Contrast Enhancer, Auto Light Limiter, Clear White, Dynamic Contrast, Cinema Black, Smooth Gradationetc. to have a better view of the problems they introducing and to realize why you need to leave them untouched to prevent new problems. (no smooth color graduations, distortions, discoloration, clipping, banding, posterization, crushed shadow details, raised black levels etc.)



7. Display a convergence pattern to find which mode of your TV provides you the 1:1 Pixel Mapping, to be able to view the correct full 1920x1080 pixel resolution of your display.

We can say that by using only a calibration disk we can’t meet the REC.709 standards, this requires meter/software, but it will be a good improvement for a small amount of money or by downloading a free one from web.

Also is an introduction to what a display calibration can do, the user maybe be interested to buy meter/software to do DIY or hire a pro for this job.

But by using only a Calibration Disk you can't set your peak light output, perform RGB Balance of your grayscale, calibrate your Primary/Secondary Colors (Hue/Saturation/Lightness), fix your gamma levels etc. for REC.709 without a meter/software...... but for sure you can improve your image in case you do the above steps with the correct way.

There available a lot of videos online to help for the first steps any newcomer to calibration world.

For a starters it's better idea to get the free AVSHD with the video examples or the Disney WOW where it features a lot of video examples too before moving to a more complex/advanced disk like Spears & Munsil or Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk.

I recommend Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk to enthusiasts or those who are coming from other calibration disks. Experienced users will understand better the value of that disk and the the purpose and what to look for by viewing the 152 Color Reproduction Patterns, to evaluate visually any 1D/3D LUT display/projector.

For a starters it's better idea to get the free AVSHD with the video examples or the Disney WOW where it features a lot of video examples too.

But you can find some basic patterns to pre-calibrate your display by free downloading theTed's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk (Free Version) which is a 'lite' version of the Full Version. This required a black Blu-Ray Disk to burn it). by downloading the Free and popular AVSHD Disk you can burn it using blank DVD disk at AVCHD format which is compatible with blu-ray players.

Ted's LightSpace CMS Calibration Disk Free Version for Free Calibration Software: LightSpace DPS / CalMAN ColorChecker / HCFR
S/W: LightSpace CMS, SpaceMan ICC, SpaceMatch DCM, CalMAN 5, CalMAN RGB, ChromaPure, ControlCAL
V/P: eeColor 3D LUT Box - P/G: DVDO AVLab TPG
Meters: JETI Specbos 1211, Klein K-10A, i1PRO2, i1PRO, SpectraCAL C6, i1D3, C5
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post #14906 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony1 View Post
Does anyone know where or if there is a calibration settings thread for the vt60?? I could of swore there used to be one?
I think you're looking for this:

2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread
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post #14907 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 12:40 PM
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Thank you kind sir!


Quote:
Originally Posted by whipit View Post
I think you're looking for this:

2013 Panasonic Settings/Issues Thread

Panasonic GT50 55"
Pansaonic VT60 60"
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post #14908 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 12:49 PM
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No thread; settings are within this one, then you have CNET, DNice, Silly Sally's, and others. Try using the AVS search function, it works pretty well especially if you are willing to use a few different key words before giving up.
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post #14909 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 05:53 PM
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Cool

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post
The false contouring definitely doesn't happen at 60hz, so it sounds like it could be another issue. Do you see it on Blu-ray sources too?

So I don't have bluray, i rip all to ISOs (no compression) and play on my PopcornHour A-400 from my NAS.


Seems motion and this effect is worse on popcornhour than my XBOX One.


On my XBOX I mostly watch Netflix, hulu and play games. Motion seems better but not what I thought it would be.


I now have 500 hours on this set and its not any better than the day i bought it. I should have tried returning it


I had an older, lower end, Panasonic plasma before this one as well and motion was not an issue.


Everything goes directly through my Yamaha RX-A2020 as it did before with no issues....


Its like the different colors are not in sync. Is that even possible?


Now my girlfriend of course doesn't notice and is amazed by the picture, but I can see it. (I want to un-see it so bad!) I'm sure this is the case with most of us in this forum when we notice a visual anomaly!

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post #14910 of 16517 Old 08-26-2014, 08:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ConnecTEDDD View Post
Even using only a calibration disk needs some basic knowledge of the display controls etc. and the purpose of using them.

Can we say that by using a calibration disk only that a display is calibrated? No, this requires meter/software/knowledge, but can improve a lot the factory default settings and it’s better solution from copying display settings from web.

We can say that using a calibration disk without having meter/software you can do plenty of things, for example using
Yes Ted, that's why I said "better yet get Ted's disc.

ss
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Setup dispcalGUI, 2nd link settings for 65EF9500
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