Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 562 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16831 of 16853 Old 04-26-2017, 06:24 AM
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post #16832 of 16853 Old 04-26-2017, 11:51 AM
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Hello! An interesting item appeared in our local Craigslist: a brand-new factory-sealed TC-P60VT60! The seller's asking $5,550 for it but he says the price is negotiable. I'm guessing that a price of $1K or less (as there's no warranty) would be in order. I've never owned one before but it would be a final plasma upgrade from my 2010 Samsung 58" plasma (which is still working but how often is one going to find a brand new TC-P60VT60?). As I understand it this model is only second to the TC-P60ZT60 for PQ, correct? Or is it better to save the funds for a new OLED down the road as their prices continue to inch down? Thanks!
NIB is cool but I wouldn't pay a premium for it. VT60 is still new enough where you can get them used with low hours. For a 2013 VT60 I would consider "low hours" to be 6000 and under. I'd value a "low hrs" 60VT60 at around $800. A NIB around $1400.
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post #16833 of 16853 Old 04-26-2017, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by seabrook View Post
Hello! An interesting item appeared in our local Craigslist: a brand-new factory-sealed TC-P60VT60! The seller's asking $5,550 for it but he says the price is negotiable. I'm guessing that a price of $1K or less (as there's no warranty) would be in order. I've never owned one before but it would be a final plasma upgrade from my 2010 Samsung 58" plasma (which is still working but how often is one going to find a brand new TC-P60VT60?). As I understand it this model is only second to the TC-P60ZT60 for PQ, correct? Or is it better to save the funds for a new OLED down the road as their prices continue to inch down? Thanks!
In a dark room, I doubt you could tell the difference between the VT60 and ZT60. The only real differences between the two sets in terms of things that might affect the image are that the ZT60 had a better anti glare filter, which is a nice to have in rooms where ambient light cannot be controlled, and no air gap between the front glass and the panel. The front glass was fused directly to the panel on the ZT60, which reduced or eliminated reflections. I believe the primary benefit of that might manifest during extreme off angle viewing. Otherwise, the displays are essentially identical. The VT60 had better built in speakers and came with a pop up webcam that could be used with Skype.

I have two VT60s, a 65" and a 55". They produce a very good viewing experience, imo. Most of my viewing is done during evening hours when it's dark and for the most part I can control the amount of light entering my room during the day.

You should be aware that the last generation Panasonic plasmas are very prone to image retention and burn in. As long as you are aware of it, it can be managed, but I feel it's something that should be considered.

Having said all that, I believe the chances of the seller getting $5,550 are slim to none. If it were a 65", he might be able to find someone willing to pay 2K considering that it's new in box. If I desperately needed a tv, I might even be willing to pay that, but I don't believe I would ever consider paying 2K for a 60". It would need to be quite a bit less to pique my interest.
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post #16834 of 16853 Old 04-26-2017, 09:06 PM
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In a dark room, I doubt you could tell the difference between the VT60 and ZT60. The only real differences between the two sets in terms of things that might affect the image are that the ZT60 had a better anti glare filter, which is a nice to have in rooms where ambient light cannot be controlled, and no air gap between the front glass and the panel. The front glass was fused directly to the panel on the ZT60, which reduced or eliminated reflections. I believe the primary benefit of that might manifest during extreme off angle viewing. Otherwise, the displays are essentially identical. The VT60 had better built in speakers and came with a pop up webcam that could be used with Skype.

I have two VT60s, a 65" and a 55". They produce a very good viewing experience, imo. Most of my viewing is done during evening hours when it's dark and for the most part I can control the amount of light entering my room during the day.

You should be aware that the last generation Panasonic plasmas are very prone to image retention and burn in. As long as you are aware of it, it can be managed, but I feel it's something that should be considered.

Having said all that, I believe the chances of the seller getting $5,550 are slim to none. If it were a 65", he might be able to find someone willing to pay 2K considering that it's new in box. If I desperately needed a tv, I might even be willing to pay that, but I don't believe I would ever consider paying 2K for a 60". It would need to be quite a bit less to pique my interest.
Thank you for your assessment.

"You should be aware that the last generation Panasonic plasmas are very prone to image retention and burn in."

I have a 2006 720p Panasonic that never sufferred from IR. When did this start to be a systemic problem with Panasonics? Is the "last generation" simply the 2013 model year? If so then does that imply the 2012 models are the ones that should be sought out?

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post #16835 of 16853 Old 04-26-2017, 10:49 PM
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It became (more) systemic when they entered the thinness race in earnest (something had to give from an engineering standpoint). Anecdotally speaking, the 2015 models seemed to have less complaints about IR/burn-in.
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post #16836 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 03:36 AM
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Forget where I read it, I heard that 3D panels was to blame for IR.

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post #16837 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 04:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Test Ickles View Post
NIB is cool but I wouldn't pay a premium for it. VT60 is still new enough where you can get them used with low hours. For a 2013 VT60 I would consider "low hours" to be 6000 and under. I'd value a "low hrs" 60VT60 at around $800. A NIB around $1400.
Value to an enthusiast/Panasonic lover maybe. I enjoy the heck out of my 60VT60 but I also got it for $500 (~7000 hours).

No way I would've paid $300 more than what I paid for my 55B6, NIB or not. No plasma is worth that much nowadays, that simple.
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post #16838 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 05:15 AM
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"Anecdotally speaking, the 2015 models seemed to have less complaints about IR/burn-in."

Umm, didn't Panasonic cease production after 2013?

Last edited by seabrook; 04-27-2017 at 12:58 PM.
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post #16839 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 05:43 AM
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You should be aware that the last generation Panasonic plasmas are very prone to image retention and burn in. As long as you are aware of it, it can be managed, but I feel it's something that should be considered.


I always find it interesting when I read this. I have owned a 60VT60 for just over a year now, and before that I had a V10 series plasma for 5 years or so. The IR on my V10 was so much worse than VT60 its almost not even comparable. I don't even think about IR anymore, where it used to be something I had to consider with my V10.

@seabrook - Just as a price point for you, I bought my 60VT60 in January of last year. They still had the box and all packing material, and the TV had less than 500 hours on it. So not NIB like you're looking at, but still pretty comparable. I believe I paid $1200 for it, but I would assume it would be less now due to the gains made by OLED (and even LCD to an extent).

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #16840 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 06:41 AM
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I always find it interesting when I read this. I have owned a 60VT60 for just over a year now, and before that I had a V10 series plasma for 5 years or so. The IR on my V10 was so much worse than VT60 its almost not even comparable. I don't even think about IR anymore, where it used to be something I had to consider with my V10.
I had a 2010 S2 series and I never worried about IR or burn in on that set, but I've also never closely inspected it via color slides etc. to see if it exists. I am certain that even if it does have some IR or Burn In, the experience is completely different in comparison to the 60 series I own.

I have two VT60s. I believe the 55" has a July 2013 build date and I believe the 65" has an October 2013 build date. Both of them are IR magnets. Based upon the nature of the static image being displayed, IR can set in within just a couple of minutes, if not less. Based upon my experience with two sets, and numerous reports from other owners, I always find it hard to believe when someone posts that they have no issues with IR on one of the 60 series. If in fact you have a 60 series that is not severely prone to IR, I believe that you should count yourself lucky.
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post #16841 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 06:56 AM
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Yeah, I don't really know what to think about it. It's not that I don't know what IR is or what to look for, as it was very prevalent on my V10.


The best example I can give is when I watch the Minnesota Wild on Fox Sports North. FSN has a pretty nasty logo in the top right of the screen, and if I watched a few games in a row without watching anything else on my V10, I could see the IR from that logo while watching other content. It actually made me nervous enough that I would set the timer on my V10 for 1 hour after the game was over and just play some full screen content.


With my VT60, (and the same viewing habits, same room lighting, same relative screen brightness, etc) I haven't even looked for that logo IR since the first few months of owning the set, because I never saw it once.


The only thing I would wonder is if the number of hours on the set makes a difference. Mine is still quite new, relatively speaking. I haven't looked in a while, but I would be surprised if I had more than 1500 hours on it.

I turn the sharpness on my TV all the way up, because that's how I like my picture... real sharp.
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post #16842 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 08:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve Kuester View Post
Yeah, I don't really know what to think about it. It's not that I don't know what IR is or what to look for, as it was very prevalent on my V10.


The best example I can give is when I watch the Minnesota Wild on Fox Sports North. FSN has a pretty nasty logo in the top right of the screen, and if I watched a few games in a row without watching anything else on my V10, I could see the IR from that logo while watching other content. It actually made me nervous enough that I would set the timer on my V10 for 1 hour after the game was over and just play some full screen content.


With my VT60, (and the same viewing habits, same room lighting, same relative screen brightness, etc) I haven't even looked for that logo IR since the first few months of owning the set, because I never saw it once.


The only thing I would wonder is if the number of hours on the set makes a difference. Mine is still quite new, relatively speaking. I haven't looked in a while, but I would be surprised if I had more than 1500 hours on it.
I can't say that I've noticed much difference as my panels have aged, but some people feel it actually gets worse. I can only hope that's not the case.
My 55" has just over 2,000 hours and the 65" is probably getting up to around 4,000. I would have to check. Those types of images, meaning static station logos that are prominently displayed during sporting events, wreak havoc on my sets within just a few minutes. I'm always running the screen wiper during commercials etc. and afterwards. A lot of the hours on my sets are nothing but the screen wiper. I fairly regularly run the screen wiper on both sets when I'm not watching any content.

it does seem weird that it's such a big issue for some people, while others seem to have no problems at all. It makes you wonder what's different between the sets.
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post #16843 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 05:59 PM
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The only IR I get on my 65VT60 is when I first turn it on. The 54G10 and 50ST30 don't suffer from this and don't have any IR or burnin concerns. They all have been used for tv programing. Once a few years ago I marathon gamed on the G10 for a few weeks through a game when I could. It gained IR from a hud but that slowly fizzled away. I never tried that on the other two. I am getting a pink blob on the middle right side though. I inspected it with my FLIR camera and see more heat there so it may be caused by that. I wonder if the blob is the AR coating reacting. I only notice it on certain white backgrounds while none on others. weird... I haven't tried slides to test... a bit afraid to
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post #16844 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 06:20 PM
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IR here as well on all 65VT60s...

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post #16845 of 16853 Old 04-27-2017, 10:18 PM
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Value to an enthusiast/Panasonic lover maybe. I enjoy the heck out of my 60VT60 but I also got it for $500 (~7000 hours).

No way I would've paid $300 more than what I paid for my 55B6, NIB or not. No plasma is worth that much nowadays, that simple.
Maybe you wouldn't pay that but that is what it is worth. NIB 60VT60 I would list at $1400 and probably settle for $1200.
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post #16846 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 04:41 AM
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Maybe you wouldn't pay that but that is what it is worth. NIB 60VT60 I would list at $1400 and probably settle for $1200.
What you think something is worth and what it sells for are two different things.

If you look at eBay, the 65VT60 which is far more desirable has gone for less than $1,200 on average.

$500-700 seems right for a 60VT60 considering you can pick up kuros for a fraction of that.
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post #16847 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 06:29 AM
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What you think something is worth and what it sells for are two different things.

If you look at eBay, the 65VT60 which is far more desirable has gone for less than $1,200 on average.

$500-700 seems right for a 60VT60 considering you can pick up kuros for a fraction of that.
NIB? That's a bit low $500-700
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post #16848 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 07:48 AM
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NIB? That's a bit low $500-700
I'd probably pay a $100-150 premium for a NIB one but when you're getting up near the $1k mark, you might as well get an OLED for a bit more than a grand. 4k/HDR and infinite blacks do make a considerable difference in a dark room.


The NIB isn't really the factor it is like with the Kuros which progressively get worse (essentially), especially in the 60 inch models (which can't be tweaked to nearly the same degree as the 50s). Are you really going to get anywhere near the point where the picture dims significantly if you buy one with less than <5k hours? I doubt it. On the off chance a board fails or something, having it NIB isn't going to save you any coin because it won't be covered anyway.


These sets are still great as secondary tvs IMO but I wouldn't pay a premium for one considering I'd want my primary set to have capabilities plasma never got to.
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post #16849 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 08:47 AM
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Man this talk is depressing me. Maybe I'll just give mine away to a deserving family member. Especially since I won't go 4K for at least another year.

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post #16850 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 11:31 AM
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Man this talk is depressing me. Maybe I'll just give mine away to a deserving family member. Especially since I won't go 4K for at least another year.




Don't let me dissuade you. You can probably get more if you're willing to wait or have a motivated buyer. I'm just conveying what I've seen in 6 months or so of monitoring Craigslist and eBay for these things. If you live near a major metropolitan area, the prices are probably near what I suggested. Further out and there aren't as many options, so you might find someone willing to pay more.


And I'm 100% not badmouthing the Panasonics. I wouldn't trade my VT60 for any LCD sans a Z9D or something similar, even with all the newfangled options. I love blacks, and for that there's no replacement for OLED. My tweaked 50" kuros were close but ultimately fell short, and while the panny's are a little further from hallowed ground in terms of ultimate (or perceivably) ultimate blacks, they're no slouches and have the advantage of size/lower weight.
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post #16851 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 11:59 AM
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I'm still a year away because I'm still very happy with my 60VT60. But I am champing at the bit for 4K, but all these recent updates (HDR10+, HLG, HDMI 2.1, etc) are swaying me away for now.

When all the dust settles, I will make the jump. Although I know there's always something new around the corner, if one waits, you'll wait forever.

It also opens the floodgates for more 4K stuff (UHD Blu-ray player, ATV, Roku, cables, etc). My Yamaha 1050 is already on the fringe of being obsolete. But at least UHD BD players have two HDMI outs...for now...

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post #16852 of 16853 Old Yesterday, 03:36 PM
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I paid $1,300 for my 65" VT it was on it's way out as a return unit (had minor burn in) used that set for about a year. When Panasonic announced that they were done done with them I posted it on Craigslist and a man drove 437 miles to pick it up for $1300 bucks from me.

So over the course of using it for a year I got $100 back! That was in Summer 2014 I believe when I sold it. I immediately bought a 55" EC9300 1080P OLED - I was disappointed with it - kept it for a year and had repair work done the entire time. Ultimately I ended up getting my money back for it and moving on to a E6 OLED the next year and I'm much much happier with that set.
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post #16853 of 16853 Old Today, 08:29 AM
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Haven't posted in a while.... But please to report the IR/Burn-in on my ZT is just about gone. I stopped watching the Today show over one year ago. With the change in viewing habits, the Channel 5 logo is getting really hard to see in the lower right corner of my ZT. Mind you, it could only be seen with a solid background anyway. But glad it's finally fading.

This is as close I've come to burn-in any plasma tv's I've owned since I purchased my first in 2004. That 50" 500U is going strong and has a great picture. I've own 5 Panasonic plasma tvs over the years but only 4 currently. All five continue to work and have excellent pictures. But the ZT is the best of the bunch even with the pesky IR.
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