Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 64 - AVS Forum
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post #1891 of 14863 Old 05-24-2013, 11:45 PM
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I would appreciate it if anyone with a VT60 can put up some gray patterns at various IREs to look at the screen uniformity. I do notice on some pans when watching content, some of these very faint thin vertical bands are noticeable at times.

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post #1892 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Yes, the F8500 is still definitely above the VT60 for ABL, but the blacks and contrast are just notably stronger on the VT60 giving it a clear edge in a dark room. No question.

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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I do not know the numbers, but I am willing to believe the VT60 has a significantly higher ansi constrast ratio. Yes, I know that test is not perfect, but in this case viewing both sets side by side in my living room, there is no question the VT60 holds its blacks much better and do get notably deeper. The increased contrast with both sets at similar light outputs is evident on the VT60.

@All - Dave & I have been PMing for a couple weeks about the relative merits of the VT60 & F8500

@Dave - If you've set up black properly with the disc I'm a bit surprised by your "notably stronger" comment which is contrary to the "almost indistinguishable" comments re: black level made at the VE Shootout. In any case, don't turn in the F8500 until you have to because.....

@sillysally - Use ControlCal and the K10-A to get some basic setup numbers for ISF Day & Night so that Dave can put them in the VT60 Custom mode for side by side comparisons with the 8500. Also, give us some readings for 100% White windows patterns at Mid & High panel brightness. Check and see if the VT60 is even worth calibrating at PnlBrt High - probably not if history repeats itself.

I'm leaving early tomorrow AM for my WI digs and have an F8500 scheduled for calibration later in the week.
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post #1893 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I would appreciate it if anyone with a VT60 can put up some gray patterns at various IREs to look at the screen uniformity. I do notice on some pans when watching content, some of these very faint thin vertical bands are noticeable at times.

I don't notice this on mine at all with gray patterns and I do no what to look for. I do notice DSE on panning shots, but I'm pretty sure it is from the AR filter as they not perfectly shaped lines per se and looks like the typical un-even coating. There was another poster who mentioned they had 2 vertical lines on theirs and had it replaced.

The only non-issue issues I have with mine are fan noise and line bleeding. We have discovered that putting filters over the fans works to quite the fan noise, and line bleeding goes with the territory.
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post #1894 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


@All - Dave & I have been PMing for a couple weeks about the relative merits of the VT60 & F8500

@Dave - If you've set up black properly with the disc I'm a bit surprised by your "notably stronger" comment which is contrary to the "almost indistinguishable" comments re: black level made at the VE Shootout. In any case, don't turn in the F8500 until you have to because.....

@sillysally - Use ControlCal and the K10-A to get some basic setup numbers for ISF Day & Night so that Dave can put them in the VT60 Custom mode for side by side comparisons with the 8500. Also, give us some readings for 100% White windows patterns at Mid & High panel brightness. Check and see if the VT60 is even worth calibrating at PnlBrt High - probably not if history repeats itself.

I'm leaving early tomorrow AM for my WI digs and have an F8500 scheduled for calibration later in the week.


One of the things mentioned in the CNET review of the F8500 was that the mll was raised when using 24p playback for bluray, while it is actually lowered using 24p playback on the VT60. Perhaps David is basing his assessment of the black levels between the 2 using bluray playback at 24p?
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post #1895 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post


@All - Dave & I have been PMing for a couple weeks about the relative merits of the VT60 & F8500

@Dave - If you've set up black properly with the disc I'm a bit surprised by your "notably stronger" comment which is contrary to the "almost indistinguishable" comments re: black level made at the VE Shootout. In any case, don't turn in the F8500 until you have to because.....

@sillysally - Use ControlCal and the K10-A to get some basic setup numbers for ISF Day & Night so that Dave can put them in the VT60 Custom mode for side by side comparisons with the 8500. Also, give us some readings for 100% White windows patterns at Mid & High panel brightness. Check and see if the VT60 is even worth calibrating at PnlBrt High - probably not if history repeats itself.

I'm leaving early tomorrow AM for my WI digs and have an F8500 scheduled for calibration later in the week.

Yes I will but not until I get some hours on my VT60. I am running it 24/7 using D-nice's slides , Full screen Bly Ray movies and the sweeper that now has no time limit.
btw, the VT60 has a setting that turns on full access to ISF modes without any software. However you still have to use the remote to change the setting, so don't worry Turbe your Controlcal still has its very good value. wink.gif

I did run some QP on the 60VT60 that was at Best Buy, from what I can tell the contrast adjustment on the VT60 is not the same as it is on the VT50. However those reads I did was using the same pre calibration settings that I used on the VT50. The only thing I have done to change settings is run the 1st S&M disc to set contrast and brightness using two of the VT60's pre set modes.

Bottom line, its going to be at-least a week from this Sunday before I do any testing and or run a full LUT. redface.gif(

ss
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post #1896 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

It just didn't make sense to me to pay more for the exact same performance in a dark room.

That was my thinking also.

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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I would appreciate it if anyone with a VT60 can put up some gray patterns at various IREs to look at the screen uniformity. I do notice on some pans when watching content, some of these very faint thin vertical bands are noticeable at times.

PM sent.

ss
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post #1897 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guvadc View Post

One of the things mentioned in the CNET review of the F8500 was that the mll was raised when using 24p playback for bluray, while it is actually lowered using 24p playback on the VT60. Perhaps David is basing his assessment of the black levels between the 2 using bluray playback at 24p?

I even tried keeping the Cinema Smooth turned off and the VT60 black levels were still notably stronger than the F8500. I cannot help but thinking something if off on the F8500 for the difference to be this notable, but I have re-checked brightness and settings again with the Spears and AVS disc.

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post #1898 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 06:47 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I even tried keeping the Cinema Smooth turned off and the VT60 black levels were still notably stronger than the F8500. I cannot help but thinking something if off on the F8500 for the difference to be this notable, but I have re-checked brightness and settings again with the Spears and AVS disc.

Whats funny is this tv still hasnt had a firmware update but the F8500 has been through 3 already?
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post #1899 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

Okay, not sure I understand your point. I'm not going to disagree that very few can see the difference, probably true but sure more could see it side by side which is how CNET did it with the VT60 directly compared to their reference KURO.
There is no question the VT60 is a reference display, but there are many who feel the Kuro is still a better unit, that is the point I was saying. To each his own, as it is close........
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post #1900 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 07:10 AM
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I don't notice this on mine at all with gray patterns and I do no what to look for. I do notice DSE on panning shots, but I'm pretty sure it is from the AR filter as they not perfectly shaped lines per se and looks like the typical un-even coating. There was another poster who mentioned they had 2 vertical lines on theirs and had it replaced.

The only non-issue issues I have with mine are fan noise and line bleeding. We have discovered that putting filters over the fans works to quite the fan noise, and line bleeding goes with the territory.

Yes, on panning shots where there is a brighter (particularity more white or lighter gray back ground) I do see something sometimes. It looks like DSE just a bit. But I can see something on gray patterns. Some refer to it as banding, but not sure if that is that is the right thing to call these very faint streaks? Started running slides to get some hours on this thing to see if it changes. I will keep an eye on it. I am going to make a drive to a Magnolia to see if their VT60 exhibits it as I will bring my test discs.

When I first bought my ST30, I noticed the same but they seemed to fade after a bit and perhaps the grayscale calibration helped a bit, not sure.

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post #1901 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 07:18 AM
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@ the folks who have tried a fan filter, could you please provide your feedback? Would you say the filters have reduced the fan noise slightly, significantly or completely? Also, did you cover both fans? The one on the right (if I face the TV from my seating position) is louder in my case, and that part of the unit gets REALLY hot after about 1 hour or so... Is this normal?
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post #1902 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 08:42 AM
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My PC Richards had this tv(vt60) and they are asking $2,700 but it was a return and has a repair tag which is scary. They are not able to tell me what happened to it...they claim they dont know.Any thoughts on how I can find out more about what the problem was and whether I should take my chances and but it? Thanks.

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post #1903 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 09:55 AM
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While running errands I happened to be in a BB neighborhood so I stopped in for a look at the F8500 and VT60 because there are no Magnolias within a hundred miles of my summer place and this is my last day in the south until October. They had them on the same wall so a visual comparison was easy and I can see how people can be so fooled because of BB's lack of setup knowledge. The F looked good, especially with its memory in mind as I walked in my living room and saw the PN51D8000 with its moderate luminance in the exceptionally bright room. The VT looked terrible and coulda been 10 times better - they had the black level set so high that even without a meter I knew it could be displaying video level 5 or so - eg. there was NO black, only grays. How they can sub out calibrators but leave the premium displays in such a state is beyond stupid. rolleyes.gif

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post #1904 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 10:34 AM
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Actually called the repair dept and gave the numbers on the tag and they said it was never a repair but a return by an installer. Not sure if that is good or bad. This is for my post above....thought I quoted...

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post #1905 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 11:47 AM
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@DavidHir

I saw you switched from the 8500 to the VT. Congrats on your pick up. I saw your impressions and mine are basically identical to yours for my ZT. In regards to the vertical banding mine is basically the same as well. I get vertical bands that are very very very faint on some grays on the left side of the display. What I did was switched out the standard 12 color slides to the 120 color slides and I was able to see 1-2 more vertical bands on the right side. All at higher IRE. About 2-3 steps from white on some blues and purple/pinkish tones. Whats funny is much like yours you have to actually look for it. And even then when you try to see it at times it just gets lost. You almost have to focus on it in a certain way to see it.

Also I also felt that THX Bright gets pretty damn bright so glad I'm not the only one, but at the same time my last display was set at 33.4 ftL

Also thanks for your comment on the 8500 "sharpness" as I had a feeling it was doing some sort of edge enhancement. Do you know if it had any kind of motion smoother or frame correction that couldn't be disabled?

@Buzz

I asked David Mackenzie on HDJ about the panel brightness since they stated how much like the 2011 models the 2013's were and he said they had to calibrate at MID panel brightness because you get a S type curve. So I assume much like the 2011's it will start low, spike, drop, and spike again.

I swore Panasonic released a fix though later on that corrected that and allowed for panel brightness high. Also I think there was a work around that involved the increase in magenta when calibrating. I'll have to check my emails on that one though.

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post #1906 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esteban Medaglia View Post

@ the folks who have tried a fan filter, could you please provide your feedback? Would you say the filters have reduced the fan noise slightly, significantly or completely? Also, did you cover both fans? The one on the right (if I face the TV from my seating position) is louder in my case, and that part of the unit gets REALLY hot after about 1 hour or so... Is this normal?

I currently do not have a filter on mine, but had come up with the idea of taping a regular vent filter over the fan. When I did that it significantly reduced the noise. I got the idea after placing my hand over the area where the fan is and noticed how much the sound was reduced. Like yours, my fan noise is more significant on the right side as you described it and I only messed around with that fan.

Like I said, I currently don't have anything covering the fans and am "living" with the noise. It does get drowned out under most normal listening levels from my 7.1 sound system, so I'm not in a big hurry to do something about it. I kind of have some sort of piece of mind knowing that I can always do something about it if I need to. When I get around to it, I think I might order the parts from amazon and apply the elegant solution that JonThomasDesign came up with. just look for his post about this a few pages back to see what I'm taking about if you haven't done so already.
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post #1907 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 12:08 PM
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Actually called the repair dept and gave the numbers on the tag and they said it was never a repair but a return by an installer. Not sure if that is good or bad. This is for my post above....thought I quoted...
vt60 has a self test in the menu try that. also little money but have tech come out test itif fine .WHAT a bargain u got..right smile.gif

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post #1908 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 12:10 PM
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vt60 has a self test in the menu try that. also little money but have tech come out test itif fine .WHAT a bargain u got..right smile.gif

I did not buy it yet. THey said they would sell it for $2,500 but ffrom what I read you can get this tv for $3,000 before tax so it does not seem like that great of a deal for an "open box/return"...not sure though.

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post #1909 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 12:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

@

@Buzz

I asked David Mackenzie on HDJ about the panel brightness since they stated how much like the 2011 models the 2013's were and he said they had to calibrate at MID panel brightness because you get a S type curve. So I assume much like the 2011's it will start low, spike, drop, and spike again.

I swore Panasonic released a fix though later on that corrected that and allowed for panel brightness high. Also I think there was a work around that involved the increase in magenta when calibrating. I'll have to check my emails on that one though.

Oh yeah, I remember that comment. I think they said the 10 point couldn't correct it.

I don't think they fixed much of anything on the 30s. The red push was bad enough that the required Color reduction killed the beauty. Too bad the 60s don't calibrate solidly like the 50s. At least it can be done but it seems that patience is required.

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post #1910 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 12:53 PM
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Here are some screen shots of the QP I did at BB on there 60VT60, under very bad conditions. I had set the contrast at about 78 or 79 and the brightness at 0. That's all I did for settings in custom mode, other than turn off enhancements.
]


ss

btw Buzz, looking at these charts I think a large LUT profile will probably get very good results.Its just a mater of finding the sweet spot for contrast and of few other things. Not to tough.
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post #1911 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 01:20 PM
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hello!! I figure its finally time I post here. can someone please tell me if the 55 and 60 inch vt 60 have the same black levels this year? thanx
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post #1912 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 01:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

@DavidHir

I saw you switched from the 8500 to the VT. Congrats on your pick up. I saw your impressions and mine are basically identical to yours for my ZT. In regards to the vertical banding mine is basically the same as well. I get vertical bands that are very very very faint on some grays on the left side of the display. What I did was switched out the standard 12 color slides to the 120 color slides and I was able to see 1-2 more vertical bands on the right side. All at higher IRE. About 2-3 steps from white on some blues and purple/pinkish tones. Whats funny is much like yours you have to actually look for it. And even then when you try to see it at times it just gets lost. You almost have to focus on it in a certain way to see it.

Also I also felt that THX Bright gets pretty damn bright so glad I'm not the only one, but at the same time my last display was set at 33.4 ftL

Also thanks for your comment on the 8500 "sharpness" as I had a feeling it was doing some sort of edge enhancement. Do you know if it had any kind of motion smoother or frame correction that couldn't be disabled?.

Hey Sammie,

The only thing that concerned me about the faint vertical lines/banding I saw is, I caught glimpse of them on content mostly with panning scenes.

Do these improve over time, or stay the same? Sometimes looking at them it seems they are in the filter or perhaps beneath the glass. They don't seem to be in the grayscale, but not 100% either.

I was considering to swap out for another just to be safe.

I also see pink spots, but that is definitely grayscale as my ST30 had that and it faded with proper calibration. It also had some of this faint banding and it faded too, but I am not sure if this issue is 100% the same.

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post #1913 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 02:02 PM
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How can I check the hours on a VT60?Thanks.

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post #1914 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 03:10 PM
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Well some sucker bought it for $3,100 and I called this afternoon to talk to a guy I usually deal with there and told him someone else told me $2,700. He said he would do $2,400. Can't see buying that tv in open box/repair condition for $3,100

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post #1915 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Here are some screen shots of the QP I did at BB on there 60VT60, under very bad conditions. I had set the contrast at about 78 or 79 and the brightness at 0. That's all I did for settings in custom mode, other than turn off enhancements.

btw Buzz, looking at these charts I think a large LUT profile will probably get very good results.Its just a mater of finding the sweet spot for contrast and of few other things. Not to tough.
.

You schlepped your gear into BestBuy???? That's a riot. I hope their calibrators didn't see you and think you were using a telescope instead of a colorimeter. lolololololololol

Looks like the VT60 has some halfway decent color separation and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when you do a 17 point display characterization. Gamma can always get funky with PDP but this one looks fairly good out of the box. The grayscale, or should we call it BlueScale, is pretty typical. We know why they do that, but, really, why do they do that????? mad.gif

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post #1916 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:04 PM
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Can someone pleae walk me through how I turn off the red "on" led on the front of the VT60? Thanks in advance.
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post #1917 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:15 PM
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.

You schlepped your gear into BestBuy???? That's a riot. I hope their calibrators didn't see you and think you were using a telescope instead of a colorimeter. lolololololololol

Looks like the VT60 has some halfway decent color separation and I'm looking forward to seeing what happens when you do a 17 point display characterization. Gamma can always get funky with PDP but this one looks fairly good out of the box. The grayscale, or should we call it BlueScale, is pretty typical. We know why they do that, but, really, why do they do that????? mad.gif

The funny thing was that the bouncer ( guy at the door) and the guys in the TV department all thought I was a Panasonic rep so nobody even ask me what I was doing. Setup did my thing and left, no questions asked.

I don't really see much of a Blue scale using THX Cinema mode, the dark clouds are dark gray, no hint of cyan or green, no blue tint. Blue seems ok, and red is red.
The one thing that is missing is the depth that I am use to, but we know how to fix that. wink.gif
As I said the only problem I see is setting the contrast/brightness, if that can be set properly I think there is a fair chance the rest will fall into place.

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post #1918 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:21 PM
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Can someone pleae walk me through how I turn off the red "on" led on the front of the VT60? Thanks in advance.


http://www.lightdims.com/

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post #1919 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Esteban Medaglia View Post

@ the folks who have tried a fan filter, could you please provide your feedback? Would you say the filters have reduced the fan noise slightly, significantly or completely? Also, did you cover both fans? The one on the right (if I face the TV from my seating position) is louder in my case, and that part of the unit gets REALLY hot after about 1 hour or so... Is this normal?

Esteban, I put together a filter for my fans and it seems to help but I would not say significantly. I think part of my problem is that my room doesn't have high ceilings and the TV is 9" away from the wall so sounds are bouncing everywhere. I am going to try and build a deflector and modify this a little: http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1775475-panasonic-vt65-fan-noise-4.html. Going to use black foam posterboard and put foam on the inside, and have it encase the fan filters I bought. I did call the vendor I bought it from and they told me to call Panasonic to see if they can send someone out to determine if the noise is outside their boundaries. We'll see what happens with that...

My room dimensions: 7.5' H x 11.2' x 18'; TV sits 3' from ceiling and 9" from wall.
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post #1920 of 14863 Old 05-25-2013, 04:37 PM
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Nice product plug, but I have been told there is a way to turn it off from the menu. I would be interested in that information. Thanks.
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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