Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 67 - AVS Forum
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post #1981 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

Are you guys experiencing vertical banding or DSE? I have vertical banding/DSE across my whole screen. I'm just wondering if this is normal for this set? I'm wi seeing if upgrading to the ZT will eliminate any of this?

I do...aiming for a swap tomorrow.

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post #1982 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't understand why anyone would spend gobs of extra money (say, beyond ST60 coin) in order to watch sports and tv shows. Again, I guess I'm alone here in feeling this way, but these flagship panels are only enjoyed at their full potential when viewing blu-ray content. And further, blu-ray content in at least a semi-dark room. And even further, the VT60 should be paired with a pretty nice sound system. The idea is to approach the movie theater experience (immersion, etc) in the comfort of our own space, I thought.

I suppose my "audiophile" is showing, but I'd analogize dropping over $2 grand on an HDTV in order to watch football or 30 Rock to investing over $20 grand in a hi-end component stereo in order to play primarily lossy MP3 files as background music.

That said, the more who buy the VT/ZT60 (or F8500), the better for us all. So ignore my remarks!

I agree somewhat. Especially the movie/blu ray part but, the audio, not so much. Thankfully i have a "decent" sound system, but its not required to enjoy a high end tv. One could say, if you're going to spend that much on a sound system, why wouldn't you have a high end projector?

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post #1983 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 10:57 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't understand why anyone would spend gobs of extra money (say, beyond ST60 coin) in order to watch sports and tv shows. Again, I guess I'm alone here in feeling this way, but these flagship panels are only enjoyed at their full potential when viewing blu-ray content. And further, blu-ray content in at least a semi-dark room. And even further, the VT60 should be paired with a pretty nice sound system. The idea is to approach the movie theater experience (immersion, etc) in the comfort of our own space, I thought.

I suppose my "audiophile" is showing, but I'd analogize dropping over $2 grand on an HDTV in order to watch football or 30 Rock to investing over $20 grand in a hi-end component stereo in order to play primarily lossy MP3 files as background music.

That said, the more who buy the VT/ZT60 (or F8500), the better for us all. So ignore my remarks!
OT but lossy MP3 has come a long way since its birth in the 90s. wink.gif Transparency is achieved around ~245 kbps (in 2-channel audio): http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=LAME#Recommended_encoder_settings

I prefer lossless but if that's unavailable, MP3 at such bitrates is virtually indistinguishable. Still, to add to your latter point, that's no excuse to not deck your theater with hifi equipment of the audiovisual variety (within reason). biggrin.gif
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post #1984 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't understand why anyone would spend gobs of extra money (say, beyond ST60 coin) in order to watch sports and tv shows. Again, I guess I'm alone here in feeling this way, but these flagship panels are only enjoyed at their full potential when viewing blu-ray content. And further, blu-ray content in at least a semi-dark room. And even further, the VT60 should be paired with a pretty nice sound system. The idea is to approach the movie theater experience (immersion, etc) in the comfort of our own space, I thought.

I suppose my "audiophile" is showing, but I'd analogize dropping over $2 grand on an HDTV in order to watch football or 30 Rock to investing over $20 grand in a hi-end component stereo in order to play primarily lossy MP3 files as background music.

That said, the more who buy the VT/ZT60 (or F8500), the better for us all. So ignore my remarks!

Speak for yourself I would concede bluray looks the best but superior contrast ratio, blacks, color accuracy benefits all content imo The VT series is not strictly a bluray machine

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post #1985 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:04 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I do...aiming for a swap tomorrow.
To the ZT or vt? I'm leaning towards the ZT. Hoping fan noise will be eliminated partially with the ZT as well.

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post #1986 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by dasanii19 View Post

To the ZT or vt? I'm leaning towards the ZT. Hoping fan noise will be eliminated partially with the ZT as well.

VT.

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post #1987 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't understand why anyone would spend gobs of extra money (say, beyond ST60 coin) in order to watch sports and tv shows. Again, I guess I'm alone here in feeling this way, but these flagship panels are only enjoyed at their full potential when viewing blu-ray content. And further, blu-ray content in at least a semi-dark room. And even further, the VT60 should be paired with a pretty nice sound system. The idea is to approach the movie theater experience (immersion, etc) in the comfort of our own space, I thought.

I want a good picture, just because its not blu-ray doesn't mean that I can't enjoy a good picture. I feel i've been burned, so to speak, on my past two plasma purchases so I'm making sure I don't feel that way again. If this means paying a bit more to get enjoyment out of my TV, then that is what I'll do. I have regrets buying the G10; it doesn't look that good and from 11 feet i can see the color banding, and the screen does not have even color. Watching hockey on it is annoying, as this shadow that is on the screen never fails to go away or move (its not burn in, i had a tech come out and he claimed that he's seen it before, offered the to change the panel but didn't guarantee the next panel wouldn't have the issue).

With that said, why wouldn't I spend a bit more to get the better panel? do you think these panels can't excel at providing a good picture on anything other than blu-ray?

Also I never told you what audio system I have hooked up to this, so why do you assume I don't have one? I have a very nice Klipsch with a very good Denon receiver.. Not top of the line, but it provides a great theater experience and gets the job done. Some want to put more money into the TV than the audio... some the reverse.. some even it out.. personal choice.

PQ is #1 to me, and I have 20/15 vision, at 11 feet I CAN see
  • color banding
  • interpolation dots
  • plasma green phosphor trails

So yes, I will spend more to get a better picture...
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post #1988 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Speak for yourself I would concede bluray looks the best but superior contrast ratio, blacks, color accuracy benefits all content imo The VT series is not strictly a bluray machine

Who else would I be speaking for? We all value money differently. I wouldn't buy a Porsche 911 C4S only to drive at 25mph back and forth to the grocery store. Of course, at 100 grand I won't be facing that problem. LOL. But that's how I think about the VT60. It's for blu-ray content. And tons of it. I don't see the point in spending so much only to watch sports and sitcoms.

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post #1989 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by wdwms View Post


Also I never told you what audio system I have hooked up to this, so why do you assume I don't have one?

I never did assume anything. I was simply furthering my point.

Please buy the VT60 or F8500. And while you are at Paul's, why not an ST60 for the bedroom and and S60 for the kitchen? We all need sales to rise!!

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post #1990 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Who else would I be speaking for? We all value money differently. I wouldn't buy a Porsche 911 C4S only to drive at 25mph back and forth to the grocery store. Of course, at 100 grand I won't be facing that problem. LOL. But that's how I think about the VT60. It's for blu-ray content. And tons of it. I don't see the point in spending so much only to watch sports and sitcoms.

I don't watch sitcoms btw but you presume to make decisions for some one else, you don't watch sports only watch blurays more power to you. I mix it up have owned both a previous st and gt line and and now a VT and it makes a discernable difference in all content imo all you have to do is look at the calibration charts and then sample content its pretty obvious

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post #1991 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 11:36 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I don't watch sitcoms btw but you presume to make decisions for some one else, you don't watch sports only watch blurays more power to you. I mix it up have owned both a previous st and gt line and and now a VT and it makes a discernable difference in all content imo all you have to do is look at the calibration charts and then sample content its pretty obvious

Totally agree.

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post #1992 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:02 PM
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I don't watch sitcoms btw but you presume to make decisions for some one else, you don't watch sports only watch blurays more power to you.

I don't recall presuming to make someone else's decision. If you disagree with my logic, then that is fine. We all aren't going to agree on this. I, personally, have too many other hobbies (passions) to justify buying a reference HDTV only to watch primarily non-reference content. That is my viewpoint coming from my background and my experiences and priorities, etc. I've shared this view and some will appreciate and others won't.

The more who buy reference HDTVs the better. That is the bottom line!

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post #1993 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I don't recall presuming to make someone else's decision. If you disagree with my logic, then that is fine. We all aren't going to agree on this. I, personally, have too many other hobbies (passions) to justify buying a reference HDTV only to watch primarily non-reference content. That is my viewpoint coming from my background and my experiences and priorities, etc. I've shared this view and some will appreciate and others won't.

The more who buy reference HDTVs the better. That is the bottom line!

Where did I say I only watch non-reference content ? But yeah you are right you have your viewpoint I have mine we agree to disagree

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post #1994 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I may be in the minority on this, but I don't understand why anyone would spend gobs of extra money (say, beyond ST60 coin) in order to watch sports and tv shows. Again, I guess I'm alone here in feeling this way, but these flagship panels are only enjoyed at their full potential when viewing blu-ray content. And further, blu-ray content in at least a semi-dark room. And even further, the VT60 should be paired with a pretty nice sound system. The idea is to approach the movie theater experience (immersion, etc) in the comfort of our own space, I thought.

I suppose my "audiophile" is showing, but I'd analogize dropping over $2 grand on an HDTV in order to watch football or 30 Rock to investing over $20 grand in a hi-end component stereo in order to play primarily lossy MP3 files as background music.

That said, the more who buy the VT/ZT60 (or F8500), the better for us all. So ignore my remarks!

you are not in the minority

My main Tv listening area is of 50/50 importance of audio and video...unless one has some serious high end audio gear already in place I dont see where the $1000-1500 invested in the VT/ZT (over the ST) would give anywhere near the same overall performance as that investment in better audio components

That being said...I will look at one of these when they hit the pricing where the left over VT50's and E8000's are going for right now


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post #1995 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

One could say, if you're going to spend that much on a sound system, why wouldn't you have a high end projector?

room/space restrictions



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post #1996 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

you are not in the minority

My main Tv listening area is of 50/50 importance of audio and video...unless one has some serious high end audio gear already in place I dont see where the $1000-1500 invested in the VT/ZT (over the ST) would give anywhere near the same overall performance as that investment in better audio components

That being said...I will look at one of these when they hit the pricing where the left over VT50's and E8000's are going for right now


Warren

Depends on what you value audio vs video

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post #1997 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Depends on what you value audio vs video

agreed...you can spend $3500 on a TV and $500 ( or less) on a sound system......as an example

I have not heard a modern receiver that could meet my requirements in my main HT area...therefore I run separates and have for many years

I can see the difference in my samsung E8000 vs the VT60/F8500

I can also hear the difference in the Anthem statement and my Onkyo pre/pro


though as a compromise in quality covering the most bases and no major flaws..I am good with the mix of A/V gear I have right now

Like I said earlier..until the F8500/VT60 come down to the current pricing of the outgoing 2012 models...I wont be making any TV moves...unless I am going to drop $4K in new audio gear the same day


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post #1998 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 01:03 PM
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Ok now that we've all vented on spending money which way and that...

What type of improvement over my G10 am I going to see? I've been disappointed from the start w/the G10... I want sharp picture that pops and looks great.. Watching tv on my 32" Panny LCD is actually more enticing compared to the 50" G10.. Understood as you scale up you loose detail; but still its not exciting. I sit about 12 feet from the G10...
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Can someone post link to Cnet settings for 65vt6o smile.gif

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post #2000 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 01:49 PM
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I have a G10 50" as well.. Looking to upgrade to maybe a VT60 now... From what I can tell it has true 24p playback abilities, so no more flicker like on the G10 when watching in 24p mode. not to mention better blacks and contrast... should be a noticeable difference from what I have been reading.
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post #2001 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by KanosWRX View Post

I have a G10 50" as well.. Looking to upgrade to maybe a VT60 now... From what I can tell it has true 24p playback abilities, so no more flicker like on the G10 when watching in 24p mode. not to mention better blacks and contrast... should be a noticeable difference from what I have been reading.

Good to know, i don't use 24p at all, so i'm looking for sharper picture and better contrast.. what is your feelings on the G10 now that you've had it for a few years?
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post #2002 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post



My main Tv listening area is of 50/50 importance of audio and video...unless one has some serious high end audio gear already in place I dont see where the $1000-1500 invested in the VT/ZT (over the ST) would give anywhere near the same overall performance as that investment in better audio components

So you're saying people can't enjoy reference picture quality without dropping 2k+ on audio? Uh...ok.

I don't understand why someone can't enjoy the outstanding picture of a high end tv with hd tv content or "sitcoms".

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post #2003 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

room/space restrictions

Well, maybe someone doesn't have room/space for audio gear either.

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post #2004 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by wdwms View Post

Ok now that we've all vented on spending money which way and that...

What type of improvement over my G10 am I going to see? I've been disappointed from the start w/the G10... I want sharp picture that pops and looks great.. Watching tv on my 32" Panny LCD is actually more enticing compared to the 50" G10.. Understood as you scale up you loose detail; but still its not exciting. I sit about 12 feet from the G10...

Considering how much of a step up the 60 series is over even the 30 and 50, I'd say you're going to be blown away. Amazing contrast, sharp picture. If you're not a gamer and don't absolutely need a reference level set consider the st60 as well.
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post #2005 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

So you're saying people can't enjoy reference picture quality without dropping 2k+ on audio? Uh...ok.

I don't understand why someone can't enjoy the outstanding picture of a high end tv with hd tv content or "sitcoms".

Exactly my point

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post #2006 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

agreed...you can spend $3500 on a TV and $500 ( or less) on a sound system......as an example

I have not heard a modern receiver that could meet my requirements in my main HT area...therefore I run separates and have for many years

I can see the difference in my samsung E8000 vs the VT60/F8500

I can also hear the difference in the Anthem statement and my Onkyo pre/pro


though as a compromise in quality covering the most bases and no major flaws..I am good with the mix of A/V gear I have right now

Like I said earlier..until the F8500/VT60 come down to the current pricing of the outgoing 2012 models...I wont be making any TV moves...unless I am going to drop $4K in new audio gear the same day


Warren


As an audiophile that has spent a ton more on my audio / home theater audio system as I did on my VT60, i don't really agree with all your points. I think it is funny how you will drop a lot on audio and consider that worth it but not in getting the VT60 over the ST60. Obviously you value audio over video but believe many will spend the difference to get a slight improvement in video. It's the nature of both hobbies, you spend a lot more for smaller improvements. Still with you being an audiophile, you should agree it isn't hard for a AV system to do home theater while it is another story to replicate great 2 channel music.

With saying the above, I find a lot more enjoyment with video as compared to critical 2 channel audio. After a lot of years & tons of money (Aerial Acoustic speakers, separate amps, AV processor), i come to find out no amount can compare to live well music, that which is well played. My daughter is at the highest level on the piano which we have a very good one. Sorry but i don't care if you have a billion dollars, I have yet to hear a system that sounds like the real thing. Yes, my system is very good with being able to hear treble decay and layering of music but still is not like live music. I have spent a lot of time and know audiophiles, some that is, will disagree. Still I have heard $100k plus systems that sound great but sorry, not as good as a great live concert in a venue that provides great acoustics.

With all this being said, paying the difference for the VT60 seems like a small price for the same type of money needed to be spent to get the same highend audio percent improvement. It is a video hobby so to me, it is the video that is most important since again it doesn't take a ton of money to get very goof home theater sound. This has been said way back during the early years of home theater. The improvements in black level, motion handling and other positives to me easily makes the price difference over the ST60 easily worth it. Now I might think a lot harder for the money difference to get the ZT60 but can understand the folks that want that bit of improvement (if in a brighter room the reviews say the ZT60 hold black level better....not saying it is brighter but hold better blacks due to improved filter....both displays equal in a dark viewing environment even though to me the VT60 has better built in speakers....yes, to me this is a big thing since i have folks in my house that have no desire to turn my AV system on for normal viewing. The VT30 I had which died had speakers that truly sucked, VT60 is actually has decent sound, at least very good for an HDTV flat panel).

To each his own I guess.
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post #2007 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

So you're saying people can't enjoy reference picture quality without dropping 2k+ on audio? Uh...ok.

I don't understand why someone can't enjoy the outstanding picture of a high end tv with hd tv content or "sitcoms".

You may not have the same values (preferences) as others. You might enjoy the 25mph drive to and from the grocery store in an Audi S4. It is better than a Camry, by far, and the interior will please you as you slowly make your way to and from. But to truly appreciate what it can do, then you've got to get out and drive. Hit the back roads, etc.

This analogy is how I think about this situation with reference TVs. Sure, a VT60 will present hockey better than an S60, but, TO ME, it only makes sense to invest in a VT60 for primarily blu-ray content. I'm happy that others feel differently, but I don't get it.

As for home theater audio, it doesn't make much sense to drop a couple grand plus on a panel only to totally ignore the lossless soundtracks on most blu-ray movies. That is my view, based on my own personal experiences. Also, it doesn't make sense TO ME to not use this audio system for a great deal of blu-ray content. The "dolby digital" (lossy) in a hockey game will not in any way allow the system to show what it can do.

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post #2008 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 03:16 PM
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So I've had my VT60 for a while but for various reasons I've been so busy I haven't watched more than a bit of various things on comcast.

I'm in a magnolia over the weekend and I check out the Sony 4K loop and I'm like wholly molly that's fantastic.

But then I finally relaxed and watched a blu-ray on my VT60. Wow! fantastic not sure 4K would beat it. Just goes to show how far broadcast tech has to go to catch up to 2K potential let alone 4K.

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post #2009 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 03:28 PM
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Ok now that we've all vented on spending money which way and that...

What type of improvement over my G10 am I going to see? I've been disappointed from the start w/the G10... I want sharp picture that pops and looks great.. Watching tv on my 32" Panny LCD is actually more enticing compared to the 50" G10.. Understood as you scale up you loose detail; but still its not exciting. I sit about 12 feet from the G10...

sounds like you may be a good candidate for the Samsung F8500...based on what I have heard and seen

you might look at the closeout sharp elite LED at magnolia home theater

I am a plasma guy...but I have to tell you that set is pretty amazing and one that I could enjoy as my main TV

Now that they are discontinued....people have been paying about VT/F8500 prices for them...especially on the east coast

In regard to what difference you will see in a new Panny VT...I would say the difference is going to be substantial in brightness. I have a buddy that has about the same vintage TV as you have...he has a V10
Incredible shadow detail...however the TV is a little dim and "non-punchy" for my taste


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post #2010 of 14796 Old 05-28-2013, 03:56 PM
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Who else would I be speaking for? We all value money differently. I wouldn't buy a Porsche 911 C4S only to drive at 25mph back and forth to the grocery store. Of course, at 100 grand I won't be facing that problem. LOL. But that's how I think about the VT60. It's for blu-ray content. And tons of it. I don't see the point in spending so much only to watch sports and sitcoms.
Agreed. I would get a lower model 911 for grocery duties. biggrin.gif
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