Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 79 - AVS Forum
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post #2341 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

It can be hard to judge on broadcast sources as more variables come into play. If fbr exists, it should be repeatable on the particular piece of content you saw it (with the same settings, etc.). Was this Blu-ray, and if so, can you provide the time stamp? I've got TDR on Blu and can check it.

If you start it at 2:36:00 watch for the part where Robin is looking up at the rocks then stands on the rocks as they start to lift him up. The entire scene has it for me.

There's more throughout, but that's one example.

Thank you for checking!

How many hours do you have on your VT60?

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post #2342 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 05:49 PM
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Hope you don't mind my hopping in on your thread but not many ZT owners yet. Have any of you had HDMI handshake issues through the ARC input? I have to go into the Denon and turn the control off or on depending on if I want to stream or watch cable. Never had a problem with the VT50. Link settings are on. Same cable I used for the VT50 I had. Thanks!
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post #2343 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

How many hours do you have on your VT60?

About 100.

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post #2344 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 06:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

If you start it at 2:36:00 watch for the part where Robin is looking up at the rocks then stands on the rocks as they start to lift him up. The entire scene has it for me.

There's more throughout, but that's one example.

Thank you for checking!

I see absolutely no fbr. I tried the scene in 60hz and 96hz.

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post #2345 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 07:51 PM
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Glashub - no issues on my VT60 going to a Denon 4311.

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post #2346 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I see absolutely no fbr. I tried the scene in 60hz and 96hz.

Thank you. I appreciate you taking the time. Ill have to do some more testing on my panel.


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post #2347 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 08:10 PM
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So I've pretty much decided on the VT60 over the ST60 because of it's supposed improvements for 3D content and gaming. The only thing slightly holding me back is the concern of lag. I know the whole debate that some people may notice it and some people may not. But I read somewhere that it has an approximately 40ms lag which should be unnoticeable to humans. But I just have once question. It seems that something such as guitar hero would be the most sensitive to lag, even more so than FPS games. Has anyone tried guitar hero with this TV? I'm a big fan and often have people over to play. I realize the game has a built in lag adjustment but I've never had good luck with it while experimenting on other people's laggy HDTVs (doesn't it only delay, and not speed up?). Thanks for any help

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post #2348 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Dan134 View Post

I passed on the st because of lag (roommate owns one so I was able to test it). With that said, the vt is great for games. If you're a pro who needs less than 10ms lag, well...you're not going to be looking at these big screens to begin with. I haven't noticed a hint of lag with the vt60, except with game mode off and motion smoother set to high, which looks like garbage anyway. The vt60 is a great gaming set.
Doesn't the game mode significantly decrease picture quality though? And I'd be coming from a DLP with no lag whatsoever and consider myself pretty damn sensitive to it...what do you think? If I'm going to be shelling out over an extra $1000 for the VT over the ST for the sole purpose of improved gaming performance (well, also better 3D performance), I really have no choice to expect anything other than zero discernible lag, without sacrificing picture quality...I like my games to look as good as possible too.

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post #2349 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by headlesschickens View Post

Someone will certainly be able to provide you with the subjective comparison in PQ you're looking for, so I'm going to mention a different point that has nothing to do with picture quality: You're concerned about your ST60 lag, which means you're a gamer. So you're going to run your VT?? in Game mode. There's something critical you should know about the VT50 (and all the 2012 Panasonics) in that case: Game mode on the XX50 series enables forced dynamic contrast. You can turn it down by selecting the "graphics" content mode, but not disable it. Aside from increasing the brightness of a dark scene (it looks like the game has HDR enabled even if it doesn't), it crushes blacks. The VT60 can enable the low-latency game mode without forcing any unwanted processing, and still allows you to do full calibration (you can enable "game mode" in any picture mode, including one that's been fully calibrated).
Oh wow, this is excellent information. So what effect does enabling the "game mode" have on the picture quality then?

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post #2350 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 09:18 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Hope you don't mind my hopping in on your thread but not many ZT owners yet. Have any of you had HDMI handshake issues through the ARC input? I have to go into the Denon and turn the control off or on depending on if I want to stream or watch cable. Never had a problem with the VT50. Link settings are on. Same cable I used for the VT50 I had. Thanks!
I have a denon 2112 no issues here
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post #2351 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 09:43 PM
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I've been doing a lot of searching and reading through this thread and I've come upon another concerning issue. People are talking about "if you need the extra brightness, get the 8500 or lcd". Isn't there a certain standard that the brightness level should be at (in a given environment, I understand plasmas are not great bright room performers)? I mean just because the brightness output capability of these plasmas is not as high as other TVs, does not mean you need that brightness to make just as good of a bright picture, right? Basically what I'm asking is if the picture quality of a bright scene is not as good as that of other, higher-brightness TVs?

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post #2352 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 09:48 PM
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Thanks for all the info here. Just finished break-in, plugged in the cnet settings and was watching movies. The cnet settings seem very dark and dim although the colors look perfect. Any thoughts?
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post #2353 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by rocko1290 View Post

I've been doing a lot of searching and reading through this thread and I've come upon another concerning issue. People are talking about "if you need the extra brightness, get the 8500 or lcd". Isn't there a certain standard that the brightness level should be at (in a given environment, I understand plasmas are not great bright room performers)? I mean just because the brightness output capability of these plasmas is not as high as other TVs, does not mean you need that brightness to make just as good of a bright picture, right? Basically what I'm asking is if the picture quality of a bright scene is not as good as that of other, higher-brightness TVs?
There are two issues. Some people love a bright screen to the exclusion of calibrated PQ. The other issue is that some rooms are super bright during part of the day. The F8500 is the brightest plasma this year, and possibly ever. There is nothing wrong with being less bright than the brightest display ever. It depends entirely on your room and your tastes.

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post #2354 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 09:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eyedoc1971 View Post

Thanks for all the info here. Just finished break-in, plugged in the cnet settings and was watching movies. The cnet settings seem very dark and dim although the colors look perfect. Any thoughts?
Does CNet indicate what type of room lighting they were calibrating to?

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post #2355 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 10:07 PM
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

I have a denon 2112 no issues here
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post

Glashub - no issues on my VT60 going to a Denon 4311.

Thanks for the feedback Guys. I have a 4311. The VT and ZT are essentially the same so I appreciate your comments.
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post #2356 of 14956 Old 06-04-2013, 10:28 PM
 
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I did not see much of a difference thx cinema vs cnet.

Still have more testing to do
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post #2357 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 06:28 AM
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I was using CNET's settings before D-Nice Calibrated my TV and from what he told me...CNET's settings had way too much green.
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post #2358 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 06:31 AM
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I was using CNET's settings before D-Nice Calibrated my TV and from what he told me...CNET's settings had way too much green.

There is no magic bullet for settings because of panel variance, CNET might look good on one set and horrid on another you just don't know the basic settings might carry over even 2 point greyscale but after that its luck of the draw for 10 point greyscale and gamma they may or may not improve things

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post #2359 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 06:46 AM
 
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I was using CNET's settings before D-Nice Calibrated my TV and from what he told me...CNET's settings had way too much green.


Explains my green Zebras in LIFE of Pi

with any settings except bright THX
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post #2360 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

explains my green zebras in Life of PI


ROFL

You need a calibration for your individual set no way around it if you want to know with absolute certainty that your set is "reference"

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post #2361 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 07:05 AM
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Originally Posted by CSIG1001 View Post

Explains my green Zebras in LIFE of Pi

with any settings except bright THX

Yes I found the Cnet settings way too green.

The AVForum settings look much better to me.

http://www.avforums.com/forums/plasma-tvs/1779325-panasonic-tx-p65vt65-reviewers-recommended-best-settings.html
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post #2362 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 07:35 AM
 
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You need a calibration for your individual set no way around it if you want to know with absolute certainty that your set is "reference"


i understand that

or we need D-Nices settings to come out.. because my ST30 was more accurate
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post #2363 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 07:55 AM
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So guess it is up to each whether to use the CNET settings or not. Many find them to be excellent. I don't understand the green bias since my Pioneer Elite had that so I'm sensitive to seeing too much green which isn't the case on my VT60 display at least. On my Elite, the green bias provided an ever so slight green tint to pale faces, looked horrible. Many have said the CNET settings are great while a few here disagree so guess unless one gets a professional ISF calibration, all the talk about settings and waiting for the D-nice ones is really a waste of time since the point was made that there is too much variance from display to display to use any settings. I would have agreed with this in the past but the CNET setting are spot on with my eyes. THX Cinema setting has too much red that's for sure. The pre calibration charts I've seen for the colors of the VT60 are pretty much spot on with post calibration charts showing very little change so not really understanding how things could be that far off. Obviously the CNET settings did not mess with many of the individual IRE lines for this reason.

Someone mentioned the AV forum settings being better. I have no idea what these settings are since folks keep asking from time to time when the D-nice settings are going to be available.

To each his own I guess.
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post #2364 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 07:57 AM
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i understand that

or we need D-Nices settings to come out.. because my ST30 was more accurate

Even Dnice's setting are hit or miss due to panel variance
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post #2365 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by robertrobert View Post

So guess it is up to each whether to use the CNET settings or not. Many find them to be excellent. I don't understand the green bias since my Pioneer Elite had that so I'm sensitive to seeing too much green which isn't the case on my VT60 display at least. On my Elite, the green bias provided an ever so slight green tint to pale faces, looked horrible. Many have said the CNET settings are great while a few here disagree so guess unless one gets a professional ISF calibration, all the talk about settings and waiting for the D-nice ones is really a waste of time since the point was made that there is too much variance from display to display to use any settings. I would have agreed with this in the past but the CNET setting are spot on with my eyes. THX Cinema setting has too much red that's for sure. The pre calibration charts I've seen for the colors of the VT60 are pretty much spot on with post calibration charts showing very little change so not really understanding how things could be that far off. Obviously the CNET settings did not mess with many of the individual IRE lines for this reason.

Someone mentioned the AV forum settings being better. I have no idea what these settings are since folks keep asking from time to time when the D-nice settings are going to be available.

To each his own I guess.

You are still not taking panel variation into account it is known and documented. Not questioning the settings they obviously look great on your set but many of things like grayscale accuracy, color accuracy, gamma etc can not be judged by eye, your set with the CNET settings may very well be close to reference but without measuring that with a meter you will never really know. Not pushing anyone towards professional calibration if you find some settings you are happy with that's great my only point is that to truly know your set is "reference" it needs to be calibrated with the proper meter and software and CNET didn't use the advanced controls because they couldn't get them to work correctly not because they were not needed. If you think you have a reference calibration based on those settings then I say don't worry about what anyone else thinks, watch and enjoy smile.gif

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post #2366 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 08:24 AM
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You are still not taking panel variation into account it is known and documented. Not questioning the settings they obviously look great on your set but many of things like grayscale accuracy, color accuracy, gamma etc can not be judged by eye, your set with the CNET settings may very well be close to reference but without measuring that with a meter you will never really know. Not pushing anyone towards professional calibration if you find some settings you are happy with that's great my only point is that to truly know your set is "reference" it needs to be calibrated with the proper meter and software and CNET didn't use the advanced controls because they couldn't get them to work correctly not because they were not needed. If you think you have a reference calibration based on those settings then I say don't worry about what anyone else thinks, watch and enjoy smile.gif


Agree with all your points. I do plan on getting an ISF cal at some point but all I know right now is my VT60 display using the CNET settings is considerably better, and not by a small margin, than my VT30 was after a full ISF calibration by one of the best in the industry so very happy that I can get many hours on it without agonizing every single day until the ISF cal can be done. I've watched a lot of high quality HD movies and everything looks stunning on this set. Seems I don't read too much rave reviews so guessing folks on forums like this are never really that impressed no matter what. For the first time many have said the VT60 beats the KURO in many categories and just plain better overall but funny no one seems to agree on this point. I know the VT60 blows my Elite away with everything it does.

I did go to the link for the AV forum settings. This is on the VT65 so wonder if really better or not for the VT60. Also it lists WARM as the setting to use while the VT60 has WARM1 and WARM2 so which one is it I wonder?
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post #2367 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 08:26 AM
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Agree with all your points. I do plan on getting an ISF cal at some point but all I know right now is my VT60 display using the CNET settings is considerably better, and not by a small margin, than my VT30 was after a full ISF calibration by one of the best in the industry so very happy that I can get many hours on it without agonizing every single day until the ISF cal can be done.

I did go to the link for the AV forum settings. This is on the VT65 so wonder if really better or not for the VT60. Also it lists WARM as the setting to use while the VT60 has WARM1 and WARM2 so which one is it I wonder?

With it being a European model don't see how those settings would translate to a North American model but I guess its possible. I do agree from what I have seen of the cal reports that the oob settings appear much more accurate than past years good for Panasonic.

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post #2368 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 08:44 AM
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With it being a European model don't see how those settings would translate to a North American model but I guess its possible. I do agree from what I have seen of the cal reports that the oob settings appear much more accurate than past years good for Panasonic.


Exactly, really scratching my head on how settings for a EU model would translate closely to the US one especially when there are definitely some design / feature differences. Definitely would think there would be a lot more variation on this as compared to one US VT60 to another US VT60.

Cheers!
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post #2369 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 09:30 AM
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Yes I found the Cnet settings way too green.
All units are different, every set is unique there for the settings will be different..

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post #2370 of 14956 Old 06-05-2013, 10:48 AM
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...turns out D-Nice lives 20 mins away from me so I decided to get a professional cal by the man himself.
Thanks for posting your comments about having your display professionally calibrated. I missed your post a couple of weeks ago. It's now in the flat panel (post number two) lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.

Enjoy.

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Panasonic Tc P65vt60 65 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic , Panasonic Tcp65 65 Inch Vt25 3d Plasma Tv , Panasonic Tc P60vt60 60 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Tc P55vt60 55 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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