Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 85 - AVS Forum
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post #2521 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 08:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ray16kv View Post

So honestly guys, are the fans loud on this TV(VT60). ? I have been debating changing in my 3 month old VT50 for one My VT50 is very nice and quiet. Wondering if it is that much better of a TV?

My fans are completely silent. I wouldn't worry. Please keep in mind, on forums like these, you'll only hear the bad, the majority don't have issues but they don't come online to post.

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post #2522 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 PM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

LOL at this notion the ST60 has better blacks than the VT/ZT60. I just think it's funny how falsehoods like this spread as fact. Similar to how some tell us the F8500 doesn't have floating blacks (despite being measured) or that they are just as good as the Panasonics this year. smile.gif

For the record, D-Nice measured the ST60 at .0016 and at the Shootout the VT/ZT60 was at .0013.




I agree, the ST60 is the best bang for the buck and I considered it. However, I am damn picky and am willing to pay for small improvements in MLL and color as I notice very subtle differences even in grayscale at times. There have been a couple of occasions where I predicted to Chad where my set had shifted and sure enough once he put the meter to it, it was measured so.

The VT60 is superior in other areas, however. Better processing and 3D and even some other things if those so appeal to someone.

The vt is way better than the ST. A crap load of performance differences
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post #2523 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 08:48 PM
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I cannot wait so see it in person in a dedicated room with less light. thank you lJNb
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post #2524 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 09:21 PM
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Reading the forum I thought the fans would be a problem...After being the owner of a VT60 for the past two weeks with approx. 150 hours on my set. I can honestly say I have tried to listen for the fans due to other's posts on the forum, but I can only hear the fans when I put my ear on the back of the TV. Reading the forum I thought the fans would be a problem...Not in my case.....Anyone know of a great ISF Calibrator in the north Jersey area. I am 10 minutes from Newark LIberty International airport or the Holland Tunnel. Please PM me if you recommend anyone or have experiences....I have seen the list but would prefer someone's referral. Thanks in advance...
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post #2525 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 09:42 PM
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Originally Posted by morellana4 View Post

Reading the forum I thought the fans would be a problem...After being the owner of a VT60 for the past two weeks with approx. 150 hours on my set. I can honestly say I have tried to listen for the fans due to other's posts on the forum, but I can only hear the fans when I put my ear on the back of the TV. Reading the forum I thought the fans would be a problem...Not in my case.

Good news. What is the manufacturing date of your VT60?

TWD
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post #2526 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 09:46 PM
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Finally set up my VT60 on Monday. The picture was washed out yesterday but tonight it's great does it take a few hours to break in? the difference is startling. Can't hear any fan noise.
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post #2527 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 09:52 PM
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More good news regarding the fans. What is the manufacturing date of your set.

Regarding the break in. I experienced the same thing. Based on what I have read, the panel will change as it breaks in.

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post #2528 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 09:58 PM
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Just checked it...May 2013. Mine is not wall mounted. Not sure if that will change the fan noise.
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post #2529 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 10:02 PM
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I can't hear any noise on my fans either... (ZT though, pretty sure they'd be similar)

I hear the A/C, my HTPC far more...

IN fact I dont think i've ever perceived their presence, at all

But I have the back of mine fairly open and it may be that they are not running at as high an RPM as they might when closer to a wall...
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post #2530 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 10:28 PM
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How do you check the date?
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post #2531 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 10:35 PM
 
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Mine (also ZT) isn't close to a wall at the moment, but I can still hear the fans pulsating softly in complete silence. ANYTHING like the A/C or the fridge or any noise in a film will effectively drown them out.

Warren, it always pays to double-check the information you're spouting as fact. It seems we had a similar back-and-forth when we were debating the disappearance of full array in LG's LED panels. wink.gif
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post #2532 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 10:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redshift1 View Post

How do you check the date?

Sticker on the back of the TV.

Mine is May

PANASONIC VT50 FOR SALE!!!!

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post #2533 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 11:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Sgooter View Post


Per my above post, here are some so-so photos that show how the cables can be routed and attached. Unable to upload the full owners manual - too big.

Thanks man, and thanks to the rest of you also for your help on this issue.
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post #2534 of 14881 Old 06-11-2013, 11:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post



Sticker on the back of the TV.

Mine is May


On the wall now to late.
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post #2535 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

It's ok if you don't get it. A lot of us do. Please buy the f8500 and join that owners thread.

no... I "get it"

that's my point...its subjective...simple as that

not sure why you would make the assumption that I have or want to buy an F8500..it is not accurate
for now I am happy with my calibrated E8000 and ST50...that I paid less than 35% of MSRP for

If I were going to make the jump to spend almost 4K on a Tv my audio system would need an upgrade..IMO...from my current Onkyo pre/pro and Sherbourn amp set up


warren

Rm 1 Samsung 64F8500 Onkyo 5508 prepro Sherbourn 5/1500A amp Atlantic technology System 350 THX Ultra speakers
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post #2536 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 06:03 AM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Sorry but you're dead wrong. They did NOT say that. The ST wasn't even in the shootout. Bottom line, the VT and ZT measured identical, and better than the ST. Check your "facts".

The "splitting hairs" comment was between the ZT and VT.

The only thing the ST is better in, is brightness. That's it.

All this misinformation and flat out b.s. Is pathetic and misleading to those that come here for help in making purchase decision. Unfortunately there are those that THINK they know what they are talking about and they really don't.

look at the Q&A session at the end they talk about the black levels and mention the ST60 as well

There is also a comment from a few of them that differences that are close as those measured are " splitting hairs" from any of the top three in the shootout. They also speak to the value of the sets for their price points

you must be a professional calibrator..based on your statements....and clearly you disagree with them


Warren

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post #2537 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 07:25 AM
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Just got my VT60 a week ago. It's wall mounted using a Chief mount. Didn't notice the fan noise the first day or two of viewing, but definitely notice it now. I also have a VT50 that was previously on the wall and I never heard any fan noise or buzzing whatsoever from that set. Even if the room was totally quiet and the volume was muted, it was completely silent. On the VT60, as others have said, when the A/C is running or the dishwasher is running or anything for that matter that will create background noise, I don't hear the fans at all. If the room is quiet, but I have the volume up very high, I don't hear it. The problem is at night when the girlfriend goes to bed and I lower the volume to a low to moderate level. That's when I can hear the fan noise. The other times I can hear it is when I'm watching a movie (or tv show) and you have a scene where there is either no dialogue being spoken or it's being spoken at a very low tone. The fans just take over the sound and make it very difficult to hear. Funny thing is, I have low level hearing loss and Tinnitus, so my hearing is FAR from perfect, yet I can still hear the fans. If you mute the volume and the room is quiet, I can walk as far away as 15 to 20 feet and still hear them. Very frustrating. The picture is awesome, so I really don't want to go with another set. I contacted my dealer and Panasonic, who created a case file and they are going to replace the fans. My biggest concern is this might just be an inherited problem with the VT60 and a trade off you must make for the awesome picture quality. It's one of those issues like a rattle noise in the dashboard of a car. Some people will hear it and it will drive them nuts and others will never notice it even if it's there. I guess I'm in the former category. I've seen some of the ideas people have come up with to lessen the noise on the fans, but I'm worried doing anything like the top gun vents or air filters could lead to the tv overheating, not to mention you shouldn't have to do this with a $3,700 set. Even though the fans are running hard, the back of this set, especially on the right side (when you are facing the tv) is incredibly hot. If you were to leave your hand on the back of the set for about 5 or 10 seconds, you could easily burn your hand. On my 65" VT25 and 65" VT50, the backs get warm, but a lot of the heat comes through the front of the screen. On the VT60, all the heat goes to the back since the filter doesn't allow it to come through the front. I'd be interested to hear from anyone else having the fan issue and how they are dealing with it: using one of the fan covering options on the web, just dealing with it or contemplating a new set.
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post #2538 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:07 AM
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Using Calman 4 last night I calibrated my dad's tv in custom mode to compare it to cinema mode (with cnet settings). With a 100% IRE test pattern I measure 33 fl in cinema mode and only 23 fl in custom mode. Panel brightness was set to MID on both modes and no matter what I adjusted in the custom mode I couldn't get higher than ~24 fl. What am I missing here? I even adjusted the individual color luminances to no avail. What gives? Shouldn't I be able to calibrate this mode to look like any other mode if I wanted?
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post #2539 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Sorry but you're dead wrong. They did NOT say that. The ST wasn't even in the shootout. Bottom line, the VT and ZT measured identical, and better than the ST.
.
I have read nothing different than what you are saying. Anywhere for that matter.
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post #2540 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:11 AM
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As someone who has built PCs for a long while, changing fans CAN make a huge difference!

You could have fans that are defective and more noisy (bad bearings or something) or it could be Panasonic chose a fan model that is louder than they could have picked.

If possible, would be interesting to get a model # from the old fans and the new ones, see if they are the same.

If they are different, could be recognition from Panasonic that the fans originally selected were just a poorer quality model.... I am lucky in that in AC vent is directly above my TV dumping cold air on it too so maybe environmental vectors are making the issue more acute for some over others (i am expecting fans are dynamically powered up/down with a temp sensor)

(BTW I am still tinkering with fan profiles on my HTPC's CPU fans (both of them) and my GPU fan as my HTPC is FAR noisier than anything else around my TV - still havent found the right mix!)
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post #2541 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:26 AM
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I'm hoping that replacing the fans resolves the issue. I've been contemplating whether I wanted to switch to the F8500, or the Sony 4K or one of the large Sharp LED's because I know that living with that fan noise is going to bug the hell out of me. The thing is that I don't see any of these sets having the picture that I am getting on the VT60 right now and that's with less than 100 hours on the set and using the CNET calibration settings. Once I have a few hundred hours on it and get it professionally calibrated, I'm thinking the picture is going to be phenomenal. Maybe other sets will have pictures just as or almost as good, but certainly not better. I guess I'll find out soon enough once they come out and swap the fans. I'll have to pay attention when the guy is swapping them out to see if they are the exact same model number or if they are different fan.
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post #2542 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

LOL at this notion the ST60 has better blacks than the VT/ZT60. I just think it's funny how falsehoods like this spread as fact.

Yup, pretty funny. His logic and facts are definitely left a bit wanting. I'm not even sure putting the effort into correcting someone like that is even worth it. Kudos to you for trying though.
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post #2543 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post

Using Calman 4 last night I calibrated my dad's tv in custom mode to compare it to cinema mode (with cnet settings). With a 100% IRE test pattern I measure 33 fl in cinema mode and only 23 fl in custom mode. Panel brightness was set to MID on both modes and no matter what I adjusted in the custom mode I couldn't get higher than ~24 fl. What am I missing here? I even adjusted the individual color luminances to no avail. What gives? Shouldn't I be able to calibrate this mode to look like any other mode if I wanted?

What size windws are you using ? Apl windows ?

65VT60
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post #2544 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

look at the Q&A session at the end they talk about the black levels and mention the ST60 as well

There is also a comment from a few of them that differences that are close as those measured are " splitting hairs" from any of the top three in the shootout. They also speak to the value of the sets for their price points

you must be a professional calibrator..based on your statements....and clearly you disagree with them


Warren

Just a few things...

It was never stated the ST60 had better blacks. You really need to get your facts in order. The ST60 was NOT part of the Shootout. A little discussion of it at the Q&A session doesn't mean it was part of the Shootout.

D-Nice also stated the F8500 suffered from floating blacks and that he noticed it during the Dark Knight Rises clips. The floating blacks on F8500 are an issue for someone who does dark room viewing with a critical eye. More than splitting hairs here. Look at Zoyd's data and you will see how the Samsung contrast ratios shrink dramatically with various APLs at 40fl for example. I had the F8500 sitting right next to my VT60 for over a week, and the VT60 is without question more superior for dark room viewing which is why the calibrators at the Shootout chose the Panasonics. The blacks float a lot on the F8500 once you know what you are seeing. Heck, my ST30 measures better than the F8500 at some APLs. The VT60 has better blacks and more stable blacks. Also, look what happens to the Samsung MLLs at low to typical APLs. Which leads into this point: if you want to factor in or weigh in bright room viewing of the F8500 compared to the Panasonics, then the differences - OVERALL - become closer because the F8500 is without question superior for bright room viewing and by a good margin. Bright room viewing gives the F8500 a lot of weight (to those it matters). It should also be noted the Panasonics measured with slightly better color and motion, as well.
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post #2545 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 09:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Just a few things...

It was never stated the ST60 had better blacks. You really need to get your facts in order. The ST60 was NOT part of the Shootout. A little discussion of it at the Q&A session doesn't mean it was part of the Shootout.

D-Nice also stated the F8500 suffered from floating blacks and that he noticed it during the Dark Knight Rises clips. The floating blacks on F8500 are an issue for someone who does dark room viewing with a critical eye. More than splitting hairs here. Look at Zoyd's data and you will see how the Samsung contrast ratios shrink dramatically with various APLs at 40fl for example. I had the F8500 sitting right next to my VT60 for over a week, and the VT60 is without question more superior for dark room viewing which is why the calibrators at the Shootout chose the Panasonics. The blacks float a lot on the F8500 once you know what you are seeing. Heck, my ST30 measures better than the F8500 at some APLs. The VT60 has better blacks and more stable blacks. Also, look what happens to the Samsung MLLs at low to typical APLs. Which leads into this point: if you want to factor in or weigh in bright room viewing of the F8500 compared to the Panasonics, then the differences - OVERALL - become closer because the F8500 is without question superior for bright room viewing and by a good margin. Bright room viewing gives the F8500 a lot of weight (to those it matters). It should also be noted the Panasonics measured with slightly better color and motion, as well.
Even though you didn't compare with a ZT, we need this kind of reliable commentary in the F8500 vs ZT60 thread to counter the everpresent barrage of ABL fears to show that maybe the F8500 is not equivalent to the VT/ZT60 in dark room viewing.
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post #2546 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 09:52 AM
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Originally Posted by turnne1 View Post

for now I am happy with my calibrated E8000 and ST50...that I paid less than 35% of MSRP for



warren

Why are you in this thread then other to troll and incite problems? I'm sure there's an ST50 thread...

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you must be a professional calibrator..based on your statements....and clearly you disagree with them


Warren

Nope.I'm a professional photographer. And i don't disagree with anything the 3 calibrators at the shootout said. Its just clear you don't understand them or are making things up to satisfy yourself.
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I have read nothing different than what you are saying. Anywhere for that matter.

Thank you. Sadly he doesn't realize he's wrong. Or maybe he does...

PANASONIC VT50 FOR SALE!!!!

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post #2547 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Even though you didn't compare with a ZT, we need this kind of reliable commentary in the F8500 vs ZT60 thread to counter the everpresent barrage of ABL fears to show that maybe the F8500 is not equivalent to the VT/ZT60 in dark room viewing.

I only saw a few circumstances where ABL differences were notable. Even in the movie Castaway which has a 1:85 aspect ratio and most parts are very bright on the island, I only saw two scenes where the clouds looked a bit whiter and brighter compared to the VT60. I mean it wasn't as if the clouds looked dim on the VT60 either. There was one clip on Star Wars where I saw something similar. Hockey will show a bit brighter looking ice. On the Spears and Munsil disc which has various HD clips - some brighter - I didn't see any differences. I think some are confusing the greater light output of the F8500 as better ABL. If the F8500 has 5-10 more ftl of light output, this will give an illusion of less ABL. Now, make no mistake, there is less ABL on the F8500 and data proves this; however, when both sets are at similar light outputs, the differences will be non-existent on a lot of content. Occasionally here or there it will pop up, but unless the two displays are side by side, it's hard to even notice. I recall Tom Huffman (or someone else) tested a ton of movies where ABL would not play much of a factor because of the average APLs in them. This is not the case with the floating blacks. The floating blacks were far more distracting and noticeable on the F8500 compared to the ABL on the VT60. It was interesting to see Zoyd's numbers after the fact as it re-affirmed what my eyes had been telling me. I have been using an ST30 for the last year-and-a-half. I then got the F8500 and immediately started noticing the floating blacks (despite latest firmware) and that is when my disappointment arose - you may recall from my initial posts with Star Trek. Then and there I said to myself there is no way in hell I can "upgrade" to a display with worse black level stability. Obviously, that is a step backwards in my situation. I then ordered the VT60 and all of my problems were solved. I now feel like I am getting a strong, worthwhile upgrade.

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post #2548 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 10:14 AM
 
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Good to hear, it makes me more content with my decision because you have proven yourself to have eyes like a hawk in the videophile realm. It was being overemphasized to the point that it was made to sound like it caused a completely wrecked viewing experience.
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post #2549 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 10:28 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

What size windws are you using ? Apl windows ?

Not sure about the size but it looks like this:

HCFR_100IRE_window.jpg 16k .jpg file

All settings that I can find between the custom and cinema modes that relate to luminance are identical...what am I missing here?
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post #2550 of 14881 Old 06-12-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tbass2k View Post

Not sure about the size but it looks like this:

HCFR_100IRE_window.jpg 16k .jpg file

All settings that I can find between the custom and cinema modes that relate to luminance are identical...what am I missing here?

Not familiar with those patterns but why not use the AVS709 patterns ? The disc is free and there is a section of windows just for calman. Reason I asked is because of the abl effect if you use windows larger than 10% the effect becomes more pronounced. Contrast is maxed out on custom ?

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