Official Panasonic VT60/VT65 Series Discussion Thread [No Street Price Talk] - Page 98 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2911 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 05:33 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

lol OK. Because of your advice I will never look at a tv again at BB. Thanks.

I never said not to look at a tv at Best Buy. Look all you want. As to drawing conclusions, well, I don't see how that's possible unless one brings a "dark room tent" and calibration gear, etc. Even then there's a good chance that the panel hasn't been broken in, etc. I doubt that D-Nice would opine on PQ based on a momentary BBY viewing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

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post #2912 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 06:37 AM
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Well then I guess I am ok that I brought my last 3 TV's at best buy.

I did exactly that, took my gear over to BB and ran some quick profiles on there VT60, in on-screen mode.
Yes it was a little off, when I did the quick profile the black level measured .0012 FL. After I ran a full profile (4913 color points) on my VT60 my black level is .0011 FL.


Of-course most folks can't do what I did, but making a few easy adjustments to a few different modes and playing a Blu Ray disc that you know well should give you a good idea of what a TV can do.

It sure beats buying on line never having the chance to get any idea how it preforms, and then if you don't like the TV get ready to jump through some hops sending it back.

ss

I should add that it seems that you should use Custom Mode to get that low of a black reading, Pro 1 & 2 seem to come in around .0020 FL.

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post #2913 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 06:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Well then I guess I am ok that I brought my last 3 TV's at best buy.

I did exactly that, took my gear over to BB and ran some quick profiles on there VT60, in on-screen mode.
Yes it was a little off, when I did the quick profile the black level measured .0012 FL. After I ran a full profile (4913 color points) on my VT60 my black level is .0011 FL.


Of-course most folks can't do what I did, but making a few easy adjustments to a few different modes and playing a Blu Ray disc that you know well should give you a good idea of what a TV can do.

^Agree. Well done!

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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

It sure beats buying on line never having the chance to get any idea how it preforms, and then if you don't like the TV get ready to jump through some hops sending it back.

There aren't many HDTVs (at or near the top) to consider, so for some of us it's best to rely on reviews combined with experiences of reliable sources (such as yourself, etc) as opposed to drawing poor conclusions doing a Best Buy drive-by.


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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

I should add that it seems that you should use Custom Mode to get that low of a black reading, Pro 1 & 2 seem to come in around .0020 FL.

^The Pro 1/2 versus Custom mode is a bit confusing. What mode was used at the shoot-out. What mode are ChadB, D-Nice and other pros using for their "dark room" calibration?

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post #2914 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 07:41 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

This was the question I was answering:

"If my viewing distance is 10-15 ft, is the 65" too small?"

and the answer (for the sake of clarification) again:

"Yes, certainly at 15 feet, though 10 feet would be sufficient."
That is a choice, "most would say" at 15FT go bigger than 65". However if you want a plasma the cost skyrockets for the 85" Panasonic, which adds other decisions.
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post #2915 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 08:41 AM
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Thank you to everyone for the feedback on my questions. Just ordered the 65" VT60 to be delivered this weekend. Wohoo biggrin.gif
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post #2916 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 09:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sillysally 
I should add that it seems that you should use Custom Mode to get that low of a black reading, Pro 1 & 2 seem to come in around .0020 FL.

That is a very interesting find.
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post #2917 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 09:29 AM
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At the shoot out they were getting .0013 in the professional modes.

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post #2918 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by TWD View Post

At the shoot out they were getting .0013 in the professional modes.

Is it certain that they were using Pro 1 or 2? (as opposed to Custom)

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post #2919 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 10:43 AM
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How do you access the PRO ISF modes? I can only access the initial 8 modes.
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post #2920 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 11:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove View Post

Thank you to everyone for the feedback on my questions. Just ordered the 65" VT60 to be delivered this weekend. Wohoo biggrin.gif

Congrats on your new VT60! I hope you enjoy it as much as I do.

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post #2921 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by PRO-630HD View Post

How do you access the PRO ISF modes? I can only access the initial 8 modes.

It's an option in Setup at the bottom I believe. Says professional Mode ISF On / Off

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post #2922 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I never said not to look at a tv at Best Buy. Look all you want. As to drawing conclusions, well, I don't see how that's possible unless one brings a "dark room tent" and calibration gear, etc. Even then there's a good chance that the panel hasn't been broken in, etc. I doubt that D-Nice would opine on PQ based on a momentary BBY viewing. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Well, not every consumer watches in a dark room enviroment, and the typical best buy customer wont be getting a pro calibration. For that rather large segment of the consumer base, they will be able to make conclusions at best buy.

Not everyone is in the same situation as you.

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post #2923 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jconjason View Post

Well, not every consumer watches in a dark room enviroment, and the typical best buy customer wont be getting a pro calibration. For that rather large segment of the consumer base, they will be able to make conclusions at best buy.

Not everyone is in the same situation as you.

Those consumers, the masses, will make yet another in a long line of ill informed, random purchases. We are here because we care more about how we spend money.

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post #2924 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 03:41 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Those consumers, the masses, will make yet another in a long line of ill informed, random purchases. We are here because we care more about how we spend money.

I don't disagree with you. My point was that most will made buying decisions on what they see at a local store and they will be happy with the purchase. How's the saying go..... Ignorance is bliss.

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post #2925 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by vp4lifehva View Post

Chad did my VT60 yesterday.
Thanks for posting your calibration comments. I've added a link to your post in the flat panel (post number two) lists that are linked in the signature area at the bottom of my post.

If you have further comments to make about your calibration, it would be great if you could use the edit command to add them to your original post. Enjoy. smile.gif
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post #2926 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post


^The Pro 1/2 versus Custom mode is a bit confusing. What mode was used at the shoot-out. What mode are ChadB, D-Nice and other pros using for their "dark room" calibration?

D-Nice calibrated the Pro / ISF modes for both the VT60 and ZT60, he also used/uses ControlCAL G/VT30 Edition v2 for display control on them as does Chad B.
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post #2927 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

^Agree. Well done!
There aren't many HDTVs (at or near the top) to consider, so for some of us it's best to rely on reviews combined with experiences of reliable sources (such as yourself, etc) as opposed to drawing poor conclusions doing a Best Buy drive-by.
^The Pro 1/2 versus Custom mode is a bit confusing. What mode was used at the shoot-out. What mode are ChadB, D-Nice and other pros using for their "dark room" calibration?

Yes you should read the reviews and then compare for the use of the same key words.

I don't know how D-Nice or ChadB calibrated the VT60 and there use of the controls at the shoot out, or what modes were used. That makes no difference to me in how I calibrate.

In real world testing/profiling (on my 65VT60, in my man cave) using a very specialized software (Light Space, they don't have it) and high end meter (I think they used the same meter as I use, K10-A). The profiling of my VT60 and that of the VT60 at best buy came out about the same, .0011FL for Custom mode and about .0020FL for the Pro modes.

What this tells me is that for a reference LUT/calibration, I am better off using Custom mode if I want to get the lowest back level on my VT60. If I want the sharpest PQ then I will use the Pro modes but giving up a little back level.
imo, that's what calibration is all about give and take. Its for that reason why I have moved away from a normal calibration to a very detailed LUT/Calibration (less give, more take).
That said, I am sure D-Nice and ChadB will do a great job using the tools they have to work with.

ss

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post #2928 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 08:49 PM
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In the THX modes what is the panel brightness set too? Mid? This section is locked out so I was just curious.
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post #2929 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 11:27 PM
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that's a good question...i'd be interested in some info on that as well. also, I know i'm in the wrong section to ask this question but, I always see most of the pro calibrators commenting in this thread as well as the panny 2013 setting/issue thread. so, I was wondering if someone that's been in the game for a while. if you could refer a pro calibrator that's in the boston area? this is my first plasma and would like to get the best pq possible on the vt60.

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post #2930 of 16958 Old 06-25-2013, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by dBrasco View Post

that's a good question...i'd be interested in some info on that as well. also, I know i'm in the wrong section to ask this question but, I always see most of the pro calibrators commenting in this thread as well as the panny 2013 setting/issue thread. so, I was wondering if someone that's been in the game for a while. if you could refer a pro calibrator that's in the boston area? this is my first plasma and would like to get the best pq possible on the vt60.
Contact turbe for names and contact information. Several well known calibrators do tours in your area. You can check references in the "customer" link that's in the signature area at the bottom of my posts. Flat panel lists are in post number two.

Here are a few.

Gregg Loewen
D-Nice
Bill Miller (?)
Jeff Meier (UMR at AVS)
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post #2931 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 05:58 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes you should read the reviews and then compare for the use of the same key words.

I don't know how D-Nice or ChadB calibrated the VT60 and there use of the controls at the shoot out, or what modes were used. That makes no difference to me in how I calibrate.

In real world testing/profiling (on my 65VT60, in my man cave) using a very specialized software (Light Space, they don't have it) and high end meter (I think they used the same meter as I use, K10-A). The profiling of my VT60 and that of the VT60 at best buy came out about the same, .0011FL for Custom mode and about .0020FL for the Pro modes.

What this tells me is that for a reference LUT/calibration, I am better off using Custom mode if I want to get the lowest back level on my VT60. If I want the sharpest PQ then I will use the Pro modes but giving up a little back level.
imo, that's what calibration is all about give and take. Its for that reason why I have moved away from a normal calibration to a very detailed LUT/Calibration (less give, more take).
That said, I am sure D-Nice and ChadB will do a great job using the tools they have to work with.

ss

I'm not willing to sacrifice so much black level. What is "Light Space" and should I expect a pro to have this specialized software or one that is better? I expect .0013FL, but I'm not willing to pay a decent chunk of change if I can't get both "the sharpest PQ" and the lowest black level.

Hoping others can chime in here. This whole Pro v. Custom thing is disturbing.

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post #2932 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

I'm not willing to sacrifice so much black level. What is "Light Space" and should I expect a pro to have this specialized software or one that is better?
.

LightSpace is professional (as in movie studios and post houses) software, and no, the pro calibrators on this forum do not have it, yet. There is none better. Eventually the hardware to accommodate LightSpace's abilities should find its way into higher end consumer displays. Presently, certain studio monitors are breaking ground.

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This whole Pro v. Custom thing is disturbing.

A firmware update should be able to fix the MLL differential.
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post #2933 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 08:04 AM
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A firmware update should be able to fix the MLL differential.

Appreciated!

Are you aware of an upcoming firmware update? I should think that Custom, Pro 1 and Pro 2 should each be able to be calibrated to the same level. Hoping you are suggesting that there is a known problem and that black level of .0013 FL (or so) will be achieved without compromises mentioned a few posts above.

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post #2934 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by sillysally View Post

Yes you should read the reviews and then compare for the use of the same key words.

I don't know how D-Nice or ChadB calibrated the VT60 and there use of the controls at the shoot out, or what modes were used. That makes no difference to me in how I calibrate.

In real world testing/profiling (on my 65VT60, in my man cave) using a very specialized software (Light Space, they don't have it) and high end meter (I think they used the same meter as I use, K10-A). The profiling of my VT60 and that of the VT60 at best buy came out about the same, .0011FL for Custom mode and about .0020FL for the Pro modes.

What this tells me is that for a reference LUT/calibration, I am better off using Custom mode if I want to get the lowest back level on my VT60. If I want the sharpest PQ then I will use the Pro modes but giving up a little back level.
imo, that's what calibration is all about give and take. Its for that reason why I have moved away from a normal calibration to a very detailed LUT/Calibration (less give, more take).
That said, I am sure D-Nice and ChadB will do a great job using the tools they have to work with.

ss

I have never measured anything like the above in the 25+ 60 series displays I have calibrated to date. I get a consistent 0.0012-0.0013fL MLL in Cinema, Custom, ISF-Day and ISF-Night. IF you are getting these measurements with your display, it's either your display, settings or software.
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post #2935 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I have never measured anything like the above in the 25+ 60 series displays I have calibrated to date. I get a consistent 0.0012-0.0013fL MLL in Cinema, Custom, ISF-Day and ISF-Night. IF you are getting these measurements with your display, it's either your display, settings or software.

Thanks DeWayne. Drama ended. smile.gif

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post #2936 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 08:37 AM
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".0011FL for Custom mode and about .0020FL for the Pro modes"

sillysally - check settings all the same for Custom, Pro, ISF

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post #2937 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

I have never measured anything like the above in the 25+ 60 series displays I have calibrated to date. I get a consistent 0.0012-0.0013fL MLL in Cinema, Custom, ISF-Day and ISF-Night. IF you are getting these measurements with your display, it's either your display, settings or software.

Cinema, Custom, ISF. What about Pro 1 and Pro 2?

Hoping to conclude which mode to have calibrated for the very best "cave" viewing.

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post #2938 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

ISF. What about Pro 1 and Pro 2?

Same for Pro 1 / Pro 2
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post #2939 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 09:40 AM
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Same for Pro 1 / Pro 2

Ok, hoping to hear more from SillySally. Appreciate the feedback!

HT: Panasonic DMP-UB900 | JVC RS600 | 106" x 45" Stewart ST 100 | Marantz AV7005 | NAD M27 | Elac Uni-Fi UF5, UC5, Debut B6; Focal CMS Sub
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post #2940 of 16958 Old 06-26-2013, 10:20 AM
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Same for Pro 1 / Pro 2

Just to be clear, Pro modes are the ISF modes, correct?
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