F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 10 - AVS Forum
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Plasma Flat Panel Displays > F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....
airgas1998's Avatar airgas1998 04:56 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

I've noticed everyone sets sharpness to 0. Does this make the original source more 'blurry' or is it actually displaying the original movie as is.

Blu-ray I leave at zero, all other sources are tweaked between 5-8.

pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 04:58 PM 05-15-2013
Sharpness is a preference thing. Go anywhere up to a max of 20 IMO. I prefer 0.

Saying that I've just got a Darbee and that on level 25 combined with a sharpness of 17 on the TV for cable source is really nice. The HD channels are much more crisp to the eye (the eyes are being fooled! I'm not telling them!).
Ph8te's Avatar Ph8te 05:01 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

I've noticed everyone sets sharpness to 0. Does this make the original source more 'blurry' or is it actually displaying the original movie as is.

Sharpness is adding processing when there doesnt need to be any most of the time wink.gif Since Samsung usually already does a good job at 0, adding sharpness can add other artifacts into the picture that are unwanted......Sharpness at 0 would be closer to a "source to screen" type of setitng IMO.....
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 05:14 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Sharpness is a preference thing. Go anywhere up to a max of 20 IMO. I prefer 0.

Saying that I've just got a Darbee and that on level 25 combined with a sharpness of 17 on the TV for cable source is really nice. The HD channels are much more crisp to the eye (the eyes are being fooled! I'm not telling them!).

Pie,

Calibrators do not consider sharpness a matter of preference. The sharpness control is adjusted using the calibration screens for determining the proper setting. All calibration disks that I am familiar with contain a sharpness display.

BTW, there is no rule such as 'sharpness should always be set to ...' Use the diagrams for setting sharpness. Anyone can download one or more free disks over in the calibration forum.

One other question: Do you have the Darbee in-line when you calibrate the TV?

Larry
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:17 PM 05-15-2013
^ No Larry, I deliberately turn that off. I've only had it two days and the last cal was without Darbee processing.
I won't use it for a calibration just in case it screws with the readings.

I'm just using it for cable / MP4 etc. It's kinda fun to screw around with those sources.

For Blu-Ray it is off. No need for it smile.gif
eric3316's Avatar eric3316 05:19 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Pie,

Calibrators do not consider sharpness a matter of preference. The sharpness control is adjusted using the calibration screens for determining the proper setting. All calibration disks that I am familiar with contain a sharpness display.

BTW, there is no rule such as 'sharpness should always be set to ...' Use the diagrams for setting sharpness. Anyone can download one or more free disks over in the calibration forum.

One other question: Do you have the Darbee in-line when you calibrate the TV?

Larry
I had thought any sharpness above zero was considered artificial?
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:22 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

All calibration disks that I am familiar with contain a sharpness display.

Larry, this is really born from the CRT days where it was important to set the right level(?)
For PDPs and LCDs, if you run a sharpness slide (moire etc.), for Samsungs, 0 is the level where no post processing occurs. It is different on the latest Sony's I hear (thanks to D-Nice). You have to select a level above 0 to reach '0'.
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 05:24 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

I had thought any sharpness above zero was considered artificial?

Some TVs in the past (and possibly today) needed a sharpness way above zero to be correct. That's why I just said "there is no rule such as 'sharpness should always be set to ..." There is only one correct setting and it is determined by calibration sharpness patterns.

Larry
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 05:27 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Larry, this is really born from the CRT days where it was important to set the right level(?)
For PDPs and LCDs, if you run a sharpness slide (moire etc.), for Samsungs, 0 is the level where no post processing occurs. It is different on the latest Sony's I hear (thanks to D-Nice). You have to select a level above 0 to reach '0'.

It has nothing to do with CRT technology exclusively. It has to do with how the design engineer wanted the control to behave.

Come on, guys. It's not rocket science. biggrin.gif

Larry
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:33 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Come on, guys. It's not rocket science. biggrin.gif

I'll see your five and raise you ten wink.gif

It's been too much for me the last couple of weeks lol.
Information overload biggrin.gif The damn thing has consumed me. I finally got where I needed to be, so I can now sleep tongue.gif
I'm happy to start tweaking what I have instead of the continual search for better...
surfmlb's Avatar surfmlb 05:40 PM 05-15-2013
I like sharpness at 20 I don't care what the calibration screens say wink.gif At least with cable content that is.
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:42 PM 05-15-2013
Next up - A Klein K10-A eek.gif


[sorry]
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:44 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I like sharpness at 20 I don't care what the calibration screens say wink.gif At least with cable content that is.

It's up to you! There are no rules when it all comes down to how you like to view.
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767 05:45 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Pie,

Calibrators do not consider sharpness a matter of preference. The sharpness control is adjusted using the calibration screens for determining the proper setting. All calibration disks that I am familiar with contain a sharpness display.

BTW, there is no rule such as 'sharpness should always be set to ...' Use the diagrams for setting sharpness. Anyone can download one or more free disks over in the calibration forum.

One other question: Do you have the Darbee in-line when you calibrate the TV?

Larry

rolleyes.gif Remembering the plethora of threads in the Display Calibration forum with all the bad info and crazy theories regarding how to set Sharpness.

There is but one way to set sharpness. Use a pattern. Increase Sharpness until you see an increase in luminance (even a teeny bit) along the dark lines. Reduce Sharpness until the increased luminance is gone. Done!!!! And leave it alone forever.

Darbee tech does not increase sharpness this way. It's decidedly different and there are literally thousands of posts on various forums about it.
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 05:47 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by surfmlb View Post

I like sharpness at 20 I don't care what the calibration screens say wink.gif At least with cable content that is.

That's fine. Since I have no way to calibrate my D7000 through my Directv box, I also use 20 for that source because it looks more like the calibrated source. But for Blu-ray, I use the correctly calibrated value of 10.

Larry
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:51 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Darbee tech does not increase sharpness this way. It's decidedly different and there are literally thousands of posts on various forums about it.

I totally agree. It's the way the two techs combine that makes it fun smile.gif
At least for poor sources.

-What are your thoughts on the Darbee, Buzz may I ask?
It's pretty much a toy.

I didn't tell my wife I got one, and set it up for her Coronation Street (don't ask). TV Sharpness at 0.

She said "I can see all their zits!' for the close ups.

It's an artificial thing alright, but still fun to frig with for the lower quality sources. It will probably get it's place as an optional menu item in TV's as long as they can license it well.
coresare's Avatar coresare 05:51 PM 05-15-2013
Thanks for the info guys.
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 05:55 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

rolleyes.gif Remembering the plethora of threads in the Display Calibration forum with all the bad info and crazy theories regarding how to set Sharpness.

[snip]


Oh yes, I do remember them. And it still comes up over there periodically -- with the same zombie theories. cool.gif

Larry
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:56 PM 05-15-2013
^ Larry,

Excuse me, I didn't ask you but meant to;

Any Darbee impressions you'd like to share?
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 05:58 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

I use the correctly calibrated value of 10.
Larry

At the shootout, the F8500 was set to 0.
Is this specific to models for Samsung?
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 06:01 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

At the shootout, the F8500 was set to 0.
Is this specific to models for Samsung?

The correct setting of 10 that I referred to was for my D7000. That's why a pattern must be used for each TV.

Larry
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 06:12 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

[snip]

There is but one way to set sharpness. Use a pattern. Increase Sharpness until you see an increase in luminance (even a teeny bit) along the dark lines. Reduce Sharpness until the increased luminance is gone. Done!!!! And leave it alone forever.

[snip]

For a cable or sat box, sharpness can be set the same way using a program that has some stationary relatively small text that is horizontally narrow. Increase the sharpness to where ringing occurs and then reduce it until is it sharp and the ghosting (ringing) disappears. The Weather Channel works fine for this.

Larry
buzzard767's Avatar buzzard767 06:17 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

I totally agree. It's the way the two techs combine that makes it fun smile.gif
At least for poor sources.

-What are your thoughts on the Darbee, Buzz may I ask?
It's pretty much a toy.

I didn't tell my wife I got one, and set it up for her Coronation Street (don't ask). TV Sharpness at 0.

She said "I can see all their zits!' for the close ups.

It's an artificial thing alright, but still fun to frig with for the lower quality sources. It will probably get it's place as an optional menu item in TV's as long as they can license it well.

The Darblet is my dark secret sometimes used defiance of image fidelity. When it first arrived on the scene I got one out of curiosity and have since purchase two more, one of which was forwarded to a buddy in Greece. I spent many hours trying to figure out if there was a truly simple explanation of how the processing was done and came up empty handed. There is nothing measurable with calibrator meters and patterns - believe me I tried. I spend another couple of hours with a magnifying glass studying the behavior of individual pixels. Yes, I could see what was happening but never concluded why in some areas of the picture and not in others. My non scientific thought was that the Darblet was doing more processing to individual small physical area patterns on the screen than to larger ones, but why? I have no answer.

One thing is for sure, the effect is much more visible, and amazing, viewing a paused image. Turn the motion on and 90% of the effect is gone but there is still something there. I have an F8000 LED on which the Blur Reduction control is very effective but Darblet results are close to the same no matter what setting is used.

It might be a toy, but it's getting taken seriously. The new Lumagen Radiance 2121 video processor is incorporating the tech. And why the increased perceived clarity of the 8500? Is Samsung doing something similar?
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 06:27 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Is Samsung doing something similar?

Cool info thanks.
Do you think there is a Korean copy franchise? cool.gif

Anything can be copied nowadays....
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 06:38 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

The correct setting of 10 that I referred to was for my D7000. That's why a pattern must be used for each TV

Well, crap on a stick!

Do you know what the average agreed value the 51F8500 should be set to?
I presume it's a discernible value dependent on the eye viewing the material.
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 06:57 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Well, crap on a stick!

Do you know what the average agreed value the 51F8500 should be set to?
I presume it's a discernible value dependent on the eye viewing the material.

Yes, it is discernible. No, it is not dependent on the eye. The process is performed using a specific pattern. It is viewed up close to the screen while adjusted and once set, it is correct for any viewing distance or material from that input.

I don't have enough data to say what the calibrated range is for any of the new models.

Larry
markus46's Avatar markus46 06:57 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Do you know what the average agreed value the 51F8500 should be set to?
I presume it's a discernible value dependent on the eye viewing the material.

Hi Pie,

Well, 0 has been the 'traditional' value for Samsungs. As Larry says, calibrate with a test pattern.
Go to http://www.avsforum.com/t/948496/avs-hd-709-blu-ray-mp4-calibration and download & burn the Bluray disc image. There's an excellent sharpness test pattern you can use.

Cheers
Mark

Hopefully joining the F8500 club this Saturday wink.gif
pieandchips's Avatar pieandchips 07:30 PM 05-15-2013
^ I have been there smile.gif
I noticed change at +1.
rocketcity's Avatar rocketcity 08:11 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

biggrin.gif

It's up.
Link in sig.
Remember to set gamma back to 0, all my previous ones were gamma +1.
Have fun smile.gif

[edit]
I have learned to try and set values just as though I was dating a lady: Very gently, cautiously, with care.
If calibration was an engine, I was putting my foot down and revving it to the limiter, which was all fine and well, but it was a dirty way to get good results. This in turn I think introduced unwanted artifacts and was generally a bad thing, even though the results said otherwise.

In this latest calibration, the results are not almost perfect, they are slightly off, yet the picture quality is far superior to anything I have done before.

Thanks very much LarryInRI for the great help smile.gif

Where is the link? I cannot see it. Thanks for the info.
LarryInRI's Avatar LarryInRI 08:17 PM 05-15-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketcity View Post

Where is the link? I cannot see it. Thanks for the info.

It's in his signature. If you don't see it, go to your preferences at the bottom of this page and allow user signatures to show.

Larry
Tags: Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv
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