F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 124 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3691 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post
So here are my new charts. I am still not sure I am where I need to be. Yes, all my errors are below 3.0 but that is not convincing me I am correctly doing what I need to do to get the best picture I can.

Running the 75%/75% sweep there are some colors that are above 3.0 when running the primary and secondaries but when I run the saturation sweep at 100% luminance the errors are improved over the 75% sweep and drop below 3.0.

This was targeting a 2.4 gamma. I also needed to raise my color to 59 to get things more in line. Red seems pretty off still. Very frustrating spending so many hours and not really knowing if you are doing more harm then good. Also noticing a red push in whites after this run.
the graphs look good, but it's the numbers that matter.


my 'prettiest' graphs did not yield my best results. in fact, it was one of my 'uglier' looking graphs that I have settle on, and am most happy with right now. especially when dealing with the colors, the CIE chart doesn't tell the story. the dE's are more revealing.


look at the delta luminance of your colors. if they are too high, increase your color and readjust the CMS to line up the points again. if it's too low, decrease the color and then readjust the CMS.
for example, with color at 50, and my 100% all under 1.0 dE's, I had delta luminances of +20 to +30 with several colors, and dE's over 4.0. with color increased(around 56), I didn't get any better dE's at 100%(adjusted cms to compensate of course), but my delta luminance values decreased to between -5 to +7, and my dE's were now almost all under 2.0
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post #3692 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Are people using zoyd or fierces settings?
if it helps you decide, Zoyd has a LOT more experience than I do!


you may also want to decide based on production date. I have an Apr 2013 build, I believe Zoyd's is a 2014 that seems to have slightly different MLL, which makes me wonder if anything else is different as well. not that anybody else calibration will ever be 100% accurate, but maybe matching a 2014 to a 2014 will at least be more accurate.


in any event, I'm not sure I'd recommend one of my earlier attempts. it wasn't until my last 2 calibrations that i use the ps3 to display patterns to make sure my htpc wasn't 'off'. and i did make some small but significant changes to my video card settings. for example, in my early settings i had brightness around 42, but with the ps3, it needed to be higher, around 46.

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post #3693 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrutchin View Post
I also prefer Cinema Smooth off with my Sony Blu-ray player (BDP-S3100). I think it's due to some combination of the player's processing and the CS effect. I even played around with the CS on/off with different video settings on the Sony player and always came back to CS off on the F8500 and Cinema Conversion Mode and BD-ROM 24p Output set to "Auto" on my Sony. With those settings, cadence appears most natural and film-like to my eyes. Turning on CS over my Sony player's settings seems to add a very subtle soap-opera effect that's only really noticeable in scenes with quick pans or actors moving quickly (it's nowhere near the Motion Judder Canceller, but it's there). I'm sure Cinema Smooth can look great if your Blu-ray player plays nice with it, but I think my player is already doing what CS does, so turning it on only gets in the way.
Thanks for the info. I see exactly the same thing with my Oppo 103D. I'm thinking the Darbee processor on my player has something to do with that.
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post #3694 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hove131 View Post
Maybe I need to bite bullet and get it calibrated ..where can I get contact info for Kevin miller or dnice?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/586330/isf...post-here/3060
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post #3695 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:57 PM
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It must be something Mac related, I'm using Safari, i get a window to open but you can't open any file, it says no permission. I tried again using my PC and it worked fine. Thanks for the reply.
I modified my signature so that Safari should now work. Would you be so kind to test it and let me know what happens, please?
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post #3696 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Are people using zoyd or fierces settings?
if it helps you decide, Zoyd has a LOT more experience than I do!


you may also want to decide based on production date. I have an Apr 2013 build, I believe Zoyd's is a 2014 that seems to have slightly different MLL, which makes me wonder if anything else is different as well. not that anybody else calibration will ever be 100% accurate, but maybe matching a 2014 to a 2014 will at least be more accurate.


in any event, I'm not sure I'd recommend one of my earlier attempts. it wasn't until my last 2 calibrations that i use the ps3 to display patterns to make sure my htpc wasn't 'off'. and i did make some small but significant changes to my video card settings. for example, in my early settings i had brightness around 42, but with the ps3, it needed to be higher, around 46.
Thanks. I will toy around with it some, got delivered last night and all is done is an with it.

I'm also going to be getting a meter and learning calibration myself since I'm never satisfied
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post #3697 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 02:42 PM
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played around with numerous settings. My 51" looks fantastic when viewing blu-rays or streaming via Netflix. I seem to be having an issue when watching programming on my Dish Hopper DVR. Especially football. Not sure how to explain it but seems out of focus. Not as "sharp" as my GT Panasonic plasma. Not sure how to fix this as I'm using the same movie settings on both inputs.
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post #3698 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:13 PM
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Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
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post #3699 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Maybe it's just me and more pleasing to watch at 60fps than 96. I remember from this review from Kevin Miller about this very issue and how he preferred CS off. Too me, CS tries to remove too much judder and makes panning more blurry. Perhaps it's the processing the OPPO does combined with CS on, that creates visual issues for me.
Have you tried viewing 24p with Netflix or Amazon video? That is what I am using. That may give you a point of comparison to your Oppo.

Samsung PN60F8500, TiVo Roamio, ASRock Vision 3D HTPC, Chromecast
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post #3700 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
Software - HCFR, open source; developer and several knowledgeable users are frequent contributors to this forum.

Meter - i1Display Pro; ~$150 when on sale/rebate.

Calibration Discs - AVS HD 709 and GCD; links can be found on AVS.

Guide - http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457; it's dated, but provides good basic knowledge.
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post #3701 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:39 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
Software - HCFR, open source; developer and several knowledgeable users are frequent contributors to this forum.

Meter - i1Display Pro; ~$150 when on sale/rebate.

Calibration Discs - AVS HD 709 and GCD; links to both can be found on AVS.

Guide - http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457; it's dated, but provides good basic knowledge.
Thanks; I will also head over to the calibration forum. Found some used i1pros on amazon...looks like delivered Saturday. Will be a fun weekend.

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post #3702 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:43 PM
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Thanks; I will also head over to the vibration forum. Found some used i1pros on amazon...looks like delivered Saturday. Will be a fun weekend.
Don't know anything about the vibration forum, but if you can dial in an enduring calibration with no prior knowledge in one weekend I'll begin to ask you questions.

Good luck.

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post #3703 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?

This guide was written over two years ago for the Samsung D series using HCFR, the i1 LT (D2) or i1 Pro meters, and the AVS HD 709 calibration disk. However the basics remain the same and it may help clarify some of the subtleties. Adapting the general methodology for the calibrating the newer F model with the newer i1 Display Pro, the newer version of HCFR, and the newer disks should not be difficult.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5I...dkU/edit?pli=1

Hope it is of some use.

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post #3704 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WPWoodJr View Post
Have you tried viewing 24p with Netflix or Amazon video? That is what I am using. That may give you a point of comparison to your Oppo.
I don't stream Netflix or Amazon, so I have nothing to compare it with. I am impressed with CS off and do not see 3:2 pulldown hitches that I saw on my previous tv. CS on, in my eyes, does too much processing. I know some people have issues visually with the added processing, just like some that can see rainbowing, etc. I guess I am one of the "weird" ones.
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post #3705 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 05:40 PM
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This might be a stretch to post in the settings thread but I am going to ask here anyway.

I upgraded to a 60" F8500 in November from a 34" Toshiba HR CRT. My primary source is a Windows 7 64bit HTPC running Media Center with a Ceton Cablecard tuner. My GPU is an Nvidia GT720 card.

Here are my questions:

1. What are the optimal settings for the GPU? Right now I have it set to the native resolution of the F8500 so upscaling of 720p content (like ESPN and ABC) is done on the HTPC also 1080i (i.e. NBC) content is de-interlaced on the HTPC/GPU. Is it better to have the F8500 do the upscaling and de-interlacing? If so, how do you set the GPU/HTPC to send unprocessed video on to the plasma display? I can do this with my extender using a setting called "native" which will send the unadulterated content to the display but I don't know how to do the equivalent with the Nvidia GPU.

2. What is the best way to adjust picture quality with an HTPC setup? I do not currently have a BR disk player.

3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
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post #3706 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 06:03 PM
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This might be a stretch to post in the settings thread but I am going to ask here anyway.

I upgraded to a 60" F8500 in November from a 34" Toshiba HR CRT. My primary source is a Windows 7 64bit HTPC running Media Center with a Ceton Cablecard tuner. My GPU is an Nvidia GT720 card.

Here are my questions:

1. What are the optimal settings for the GPU? Right now I have it set to the native resolution of the F8500 so upscaling of 720p content (like ESPN and ABC) is done on the HTPC also 1080i (i.e. NBC) content is de-interlaced on the HTPC/GPU. Is it better to have the F8500 do the upscaling and de-interlacing? If so, how do you set the GPU/HTPC to send unprocessed video on to the plasma display? I can do this with my extender using a setting called "native" which will send the unadulterated content to the display but I don't know how to do the equivalent with the Nvidia GPU.

2. What is the best way to adjust picture quality with an HTPC setup? I do not currently have a BR disk player.

3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
1. With my AMD card there's no way to output 'native' so the gpu upconverts all to 1080p. Pixel setting is RGB Studio (Limited.) I'm pleased with the results.

Be aware of the color space (amd dynamic range, 8500 HDMI black level) settings on the equipment chain. Mine: gpu = 0-255, AVR = auto, 8500 = low. This is optimized for 'video' as I don't game or typically use the 8500 as a pc display. If it weren't for Zoyd's recommendations, I'd still be dinking with the gpu and chain settings.

2. I found calibration results more in-line with others only when using a BR player as the source. At first I tried using Windows 7 Media Center to source the calibration patterns, but the results were wonky.

Your xbox should work fine, but again be aware of the color space settings on all devices.

3. 5.1 over optical should work for the 8500's apps. My only source that uses optical is the 8500's Netflix app, now hosed by Netflix turning off in early September 5.1 audio for our model and other 'select' Sammy's.

Apparently 5.1 cannot be passed from the 8500's apps to an AVR via HDMI ARC; it's either an 8500 hardware or DRM issue, I forget which.

Not certain the gpu/EDID interacts in the scenario I outlined.

Last edited by bmcn; 01-01-2015 at 06:32 PM.
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post #3707 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 06:30 PM
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1. With my AMD card there's no way to output 'native' so the gpu upconverts all to 1080p. Pixel setting is RGB Studio (Limited.) I'm pleased with the results.

Be aware of the color space (amd dynamic range) settings on the equipment chain. Mine: gpu = 0-255, AVR = auto, 8500 = low. This is optimized for 'video' as I don't game or typically use the 8500 as a pc display. If it weren't for Zoyd's recommendations, I'd still be dinking with the gpu and chain settings.
I thought the "low" setting on the 8500 was for 16-235 color space? AFAIK, Windows media center outputs 16-235 unless you do a registry hack. Where are Zoyd's recommendations?

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3. 5.1 over optical should work. My only source that uses optical is the 8500's Netflix app, now hosed by Netflix turning off 5.1 audio for our model and other 'select' Sammy's.

Apparently 5.1 cannot be passed from the 8500's apps to an AVR via HDMI ARC; it's either an 8500 hardware or DRM issue, I forget which.
Yes, it should work but does not because of EDID issues. Don't really care about ARC functionality since my AVR does not have that feature. Yeah, I've been hoping Netflix would get a fix sooner than later but I've stopped holding my breath.
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post #3708 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 06:44 PM
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I thought the "low" setting on the 8500 was for 16-235 color space? AFAIK, Windows media center outputs 16-235 unless you do a registry hack. Where are Zoyd's recommendations?



Yes, it should work but does not because of EDID issues. Don't really care about ARC functionality since my AVR does not have that feature. Yeah, I've been hoping Netflix would get a fix sooner than later but I've stopped holding my breath.
You're correct 8500's low = 16-235. I didn't apply the hack. For my setup, the key to consistency was setting the amd gpu to 0-255.

Google is your friend to find Zoyd's gpu/chain recommendations from Sept/Oct, which iirc are on this thread.

Don't believe the EDID interacts with the GPU when using optical for the 8500's apps.

Until Netflix turned off 5.1 in Sept, many 8500 users enjoyed 5.1 from Netflix using optical to AVR. Amazon's 8500 app apparently has no problem delivering 5.1 via optical today.

Not certain what Netflix's 5.1 problem is other than a wonky implementation of DD; I doubt the 8500's EDID has anything to do with the Netflix bug, but I could be proven wrong.

Netflix in stereo not 5.1

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post #3709 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 07:12 PM
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You're correct 8500's low = 16-235. I didn't apply the hack. For my setup, the key to consistency was setting the amd gpu to 0-255.
OK, a little confused. I would think for consistency you would set the gpu color space to 16-235 to match the 8500s "low" setting and the wmc color space.

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Don't believe the EDID interacts with the GPU when using optical for the 8500's apps.
It doesn't; but it DOES prevent compressed audio (DD and DTS) from being sent over the HDMI cable to the 8500. Read my original post again.

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Until Netflix turned off 5.1 in Sept, many 8500 users enjoyed 5.1 from Netflix using optical to AVR. I believe Amazon's app has no problem delivering 5.1 via optical today.

Netflix in stereo not 5.1
Yeah, 5.1 works great on the Amazon app and the HBO GO app. Don't know why Netflix can't get their act together.
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post #3710 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 07:24 PM
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OK, a little confused. I would think for consistency you would set the gpu color space to 16-235 to match the 8500s "low" setting and the wmc color space.



It doesn't; but it DOES prevent compressed audio (DD and DTS) from being sent over the HDMI cable to the 8500. Read my original post again.


Yeah, 5.1 works great on the Amazon app and the HBO GO app. Don't know why Netflix can't get their act together.
It's evidently counterintuitive. With the AMD gpu, combining the RGB Limited pixel setting with the 16-235 'dynamic range' setting apparently causes the gpu to perform two 'compress/expand' operations, leading to repeatable black level clipping in my setup.

No need to reread: my first reply pointed out HDMI ARC doesn't support 5.1 for the 8500's apps.

Agreed.

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post #3711 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 07:49 PM
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No need to reread: my first reply pointed out HDMI ARC doesn't support 5.1 for the 8500's apps.
I never mentioned HDMI ARC or 8500 apps in my first post so I don't really know why you brought it up.

What I want to do is pass through the 5.1 compressed audio to the Toslink optical output on the 8500. This can be done with HDMI sources that are capable of ignoring the 8500's EDID such as the Xbox. I need to get my GPU to ignore the EDID but I don't know if that is possible.
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I never mentioned HDMI ARC or 8500 apps in my first post so I don't really know why you brought it up.

What I want to do is pass through the 5.1 compressed audio to the Toslink optical output on the 8500. This can be done with HDMI sources that are capable of ignoring the 8500's EDID such as the Xbox. I need to get my GPU to ignore the EDID but I don't know if that is possible.
Try googling "EDID Override"
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post #3713 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 08:03 PM
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Try googling "EDID Override"
Thanks, as mentioned in my first post already tried that. Might try a Dr. HDMI device but kinda pricy.
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Thanks, as mentioned in my first post already tried that. Might try a Dr. HDMI device but kinda pricy.
Sorry. That does seem to be an overpriced box. Maybe a used one from fleabay?

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post #3715 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 08:41 PM
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3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
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post #3716 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 09:25 PM
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Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
Yep, that's why ARC is useless. Less headaches using optical. Better yet, connect all devices to AVR first and have AVR process audio signal for 5.1.
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post #3717 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 09:47 PM
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Originally Posted by DanF8500 View Post
Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
Interesting. I know for a fact that I can do it with my Xbox connected via HDMI and turning off "display discovery" feature on the Xbox. I can run the Xbox as a WMC extender and am able to play live TV while passing through DD 5.1 through the optical out to my AVR. Works like a charm. My guess is that Samsung is relying on the EDID (if you run moninfo on the 8500 you will see that it only allows 2 channel PCM) on their HDMI ports to stop DD video. If you defeat this, it works.
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post #3718 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 09:53 PM
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Yep, that's why ARC is useless. Less headaches using optical. Better yet, connect all devices to AVR first and have AVR process audio signal for 5.1.
I do this now but wanted a little cleaner setup. instead of two toslink cables (one from HTPC to AVR and one from 8500 to AVR) I would like to have one cable and not have to switch sources on the AVR when view app videos on the 8500. I am also having some slight lip sync issues which might be alleviated by going the HDMI audio route.
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post #3719 of 4168 Old 01-01-2015, 11:03 PM
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I do this now but wanted a little cleaner setup. instead of two toslink cables (one from HTPC to AVR and one from 8500 to AVR) I would like to have one cable and not have to switch sources on the AVR when view app videos on the 8500. I am also having some slight lip sync issues which might be alleviated by going the HDMI audio route.
I can relate to the lip sync issues. For me it was issues connecting devices to AVR and then to tv. My DirecTV box would occasionally have HDMI handshake issues causing the audio to drop completely with just annoying static sound while picture was still showing. Had to power AVR off and on to reestablish handshake. Would do that once or twice a day. Since I only have a 2.1 system, decided optical was an easier and more stable route for my system.
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post #3720 of 4168 Old 01-02-2015, 07:30 AM
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I just received my PN51F8500 and have a quick question about gamma on this set. What is the average gamma at 0 and how does it change in each direction (is. 0=2.2, -1=2.3, etc)? Thanks!
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