F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 124 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3691 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Are people using zoyd or fierces settings?
if it helps you decide, Zoyd has a LOT more experience than I do!


you may also want to decide based on production date. I have an Apr 2013 build, I believe Zoyd's is a 2014 that seems to have slightly different MLL, which makes me wonder if anything else is different as well. not that anybody else calibration will ever be 100% accurate, but maybe matching a 2014 to a 2014 will at least be more accurate.


in any event, I'm not sure I'd recommend one of my earlier attempts. it wasn't until my last 2 calibrations that i use the ps3 to display patterns to make sure my htpc wasn't 'off'. and i did make some small but significant changes to my video card settings. for example, in my early settings i had brightness around 42, but with the ps3, it needed to be higher, around 46.

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post #3692 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Scrutchin View Post
I also prefer Cinema Smooth off with my Sony Blu-ray player (BDP-S3100). I think it's due to some combination of the player's processing and the CS effect. I even played around with the CS on/off with different video settings on the Sony player and always came back to CS off on the F8500 and Cinema Conversion Mode and BD-ROM 24p Output set to "Auto" on my Sony. With those settings, cadence appears most natural and film-like to my eyes. Turning on CS over my Sony player's settings seems to add a very subtle soap-opera effect that's only really noticeable in scenes with quick pans or actors moving quickly (it's nowhere near the Motion Judder Canceller, but it's there). I'm sure Cinema Smooth can look great if your Blu-ray player plays nice with it, but I think my player is already doing what CS does, so turning it on only gets in the way.
Thanks for the info. I see exactly the same thing with my Oppo 103D. I'm thinking the Darbee processor on my player has something to do with that.
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post #3693 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by hove131 View Post
Maybe I need to bite bullet and get it calibrated ..where can I get contact info for Kevin miller or dnice?
http://www.avsforum.com/t/586330/isf...post-here/3060
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post #3694 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 02:57 PM
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It must be something Mac related, I'm using Safari, i get a window to open but you can't open any file, it says no permission. I tried again using my PC and it worked fine. Thanks for the reply.
I modified my signature so that Safari should now work. Would you be so kind to test it and let me know what happens, please?
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post #3695 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 02:58 PM
 
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Are people using zoyd or fierces settings?
if it helps you decide, Zoyd has a LOT more experience than I do!


you may also want to decide based on production date. I have an Apr 2013 build, I believe Zoyd's is a 2014 that seems to have slightly different MLL, which makes me wonder if anything else is different as well. not that anybody else calibration will ever be 100% accurate, but maybe matching a 2014 to a 2014 will at least be more accurate.


in any event, I'm not sure I'd recommend one of my earlier attempts. it wasn't until my last 2 calibrations that i use the ps3 to display patterns to make sure my htpc wasn't 'off'. and i did make some small but significant changes to my video card settings. for example, in my early settings i had brightness around 42, but with the ps3, it needed to be higher, around 46.
Thanks. I will toy around with it some, got delivered last night and all is done is an with it.

I'm also going to be getting a meter and learning calibration myself since I'm never satisfied
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post #3696 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 03:42 PM
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played around with numerous settings. My 51" looks fantastic when viewing blu-rays or streaming via Netflix. I seem to be having an issue when watching programming on my Dish Hopper DVR. Especially football. Not sure how to explain it but seems out of focus. Not as "sharp" as my GT Panasonic plasma. Not sure how to fix this as I'm using the same movie settings on both inputs.
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post #3697 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:13 PM
 
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Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
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post #3698 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wxman View Post
Maybe it's just me and more pleasing to watch at 60fps than 96. I remember from this review from Kevin Miller about this very issue and how he preferred CS off. Too me, CS tries to remove too much judder and makes panning more blurry. Perhaps it's the processing the OPPO does combined with CS on, that creates visual issues for me.
Have you tried viewing 24p with Netflix or Amazon video? That is what I am using. That may give you a point of comparison to your Oppo.

Samsung PN60F8500, TiVo Roamio, ASRock Vision 3D HTPC, Chromecast
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post #3699 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
Software - HCFR, open source; developer and several knowledgeable users are frequent contributors to this forum.

Meter - i1Display Pro; ~$150 when on sale/rebate.

Calibration Discs - AVS HD 709 and GCD; links can be found on AVS.

Guide - http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457; it's dated, but provides good basic knowledge.
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post #3700 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:39 PM
 
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?
Software - HCFR, open source; developer and several knowledgeable users are frequent contributors to this forum.

Meter - i1Display Pro; ~$150 when on sale/rebate.

Calibration Discs - AVS HD 709 and GCD; links to both can be found on AVS.

Guide - http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457; it's dated, but provides good basic knowledge.
Thanks; I will also head over to the calibration forum. Found some used i1pros on amazon...looks like delivered Saturday. Will be a fun weekend.

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post #3701 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:43 PM
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Thanks; I will also head over to the vibration forum. Found some used i1pros on amazon...looks like delivered Saturday. Will be a fun weekend.
Don't know anything about the vibration forum, but if you can dial in an enduring calibration with no prior knowledge in one weekend I'll begin to ask you questions.

Good luck.

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post #3702 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Anyone have a link to a calibration guide or material so I can learn? Also, what meter do most use?

This guide was written over two years ago for the Samsung D series using HCFR, the i1 LT (D2) or i1 Pro meters, and the AVS HD 709 calibration disk. However the basics remain the same and it may help clarify some of the subtleties. Adapting the general methodology for the calibrating the newer F model with the newer i1 Display Pro, the newer version of HCFR, and the newer disks should not be difficult.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5I...dkU/edit?pli=1

Hope it is of some use.

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post #3703 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by WPWoodJr View Post
Have you tried viewing 24p with Netflix or Amazon video? That is what I am using. That may give you a point of comparison to your Oppo.
I don't stream Netflix or Amazon, so I have nothing to compare it with. I am impressed with CS off and do not see 3:2 pulldown hitches that I saw on my previous tv. CS on, in my eyes, does too much processing. I know some people have issues visually with the added processing, just like some that can see rainbowing, etc. I guess I am one of the "weird" ones.
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post #3704 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 06:40 PM
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This might be a stretch to post in the settings thread but I am going to ask here anyway.

I upgraded to a 60" F8500 in November from a 34" Toshiba HR CRT. My primary source is a Windows 7 64bit HTPC running Media Center with a Ceton Cablecard tuner. My GPU is an Nvidia GT720 card.

Here are my questions:

1. What are the optimal settings for the GPU? Right now I have it set to the native resolution of the F8500 so upscaling of 720p content (like ESPN and ABC) is done on the HTPC also 1080i (i.e. NBC) content is de-interlaced on the HTPC/GPU. Is it better to have the F8500 do the upscaling and de-interlacing? If so, how do you set the GPU/HTPC to send unprocessed video on to the plasma display? I can do this with my extender using a setting called "native" which will send the unadulterated content to the display but I don't know how to do the equivalent with the Nvidia GPU.

2. What is the best way to adjust picture quality with an HTPC setup? I do not currently have a BR disk player.

3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
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post #3705 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 07:03 PM
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This might be a stretch to post in the settings thread but I am going to ask here anyway.

I upgraded to a 60" F8500 in November from a 34" Toshiba HR CRT. My primary source is a Windows 7 64bit HTPC running Media Center with a Ceton Cablecard tuner. My GPU is an Nvidia GT720 card.

Here are my questions:

1. What are the optimal settings for the GPU? Right now I have it set to the native resolution of the F8500 so upscaling of 720p content (like ESPN and ABC) is done on the HTPC also 1080i (i.e. NBC) content is de-interlaced on the HTPC/GPU. Is it better to have the F8500 do the upscaling and de-interlacing? If so, how do you set the GPU/HTPC to send unprocessed video on to the plasma display? I can do this with my extender using a setting called "native" which will send the unadulterated content to the display but I don't know how to do the equivalent with the Nvidia GPU.

2. What is the best way to adjust picture quality with an HTPC setup? I do not currently have a BR disk player.

3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
1. With my AMD card there's no way to output 'native' so the gpu upconverts all to 1080p. Pixel setting is RGB Studio (Limited.) I'm pleased with the results.

Be aware of the color space (amd dynamic range, 8500 HDMI black level) settings on the equipment chain. Mine: gpu = 0-255, AVR = auto, 8500 = low. This is optimized for 'video' as I don't game or typically use the 8500 as a pc display. If it weren't for Zoyd's recommendations, I'd still be dinking with the gpu and chain settings.

2. I found calibration results more in-line with others only when using a BR player as the source. At first I tried using Windows 7 Media Center to source the calibration patterns, but the results were wonky.

Your xbox should work fine, but again be aware of the color space settings on all devices.

3. 5.1 over optical should work for the 8500's apps. My only source that uses optical is the 8500's Netflix app, now hosed by Netflix turning off in early September 5.1 audio for our model and other 'select' Sammy's.

Apparently 5.1 cannot be passed from the 8500's apps to an AVR via HDMI ARC; it's either an 8500 hardware or DRM issue, I forget which.

Not certain the gpu/EDID interacts in the scenario I outlined.

Last edited by bmcn; 01-01-2015 at 07:32 PM.
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post #3706 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 07:30 PM
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1. With my AMD card there's no way to output 'native' so the gpu upconverts all to 1080p. Pixel setting is RGB Studio (Limited.) I'm pleased with the results.

Be aware of the color space (amd dynamic range) settings on the equipment chain. Mine: gpu = 0-255, AVR = auto, 8500 = low. This is optimized for 'video' as I don't game or typically use the 8500 as a pc display. If it weren't for Zoyd's recommendations, I'd still be dinking with the gpu and chain settings.
I thought the "low" setting on the 8500 was for 16-235 color space? AFAIK, Windows media center outputs 16-235 unless you do a registry hack. Where are Zoyd's recommendations?

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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
3. 5.1 over optical should work. My only source that uses optical is the 8500's Netflix app, now hosed by Netflix turning off 5.1 audio for our model and other 'select' Sammy's.

Apparently 5.1 cannot be passed from the 8500's apps to an AVR via HDMI ARC; it's either an 8500 hardware or DRM issue, I forget which.
Yes, it should work but does not because of EDID issues. Don't really care about ARC functionality since my AVR does not have that feature. Yeah, I've been hoping Netflix would get a fix sooner than later but I've stopped holding my breath.
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post #3707 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 07:44 PM
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I thought the "low" setting on the 8500 was for 16-235 color space? AFAIK, Windows media center outputs 16-235 unless you do a registry hack. Where are Zoyd's recommendations?



Yes, it should work but does not because of EDID issues. Don't really care about ARC functionality since my AVR does not have that feature. Yeah, I've been hoping Netflix would get a fix sooner than later but I've stopped holding my breath.
You're correct 8500's low = 16-235. I didn't apply the hack. For my setup, the key to consistency was setting the amd gpu to 0-255.

Google is your friend to find Zoyd's gpu/chain recommendations from Sept/Oct, which iirc are on this thread.

Don't believe the EDID interacts with the GPU when using optical for the 8500's apps.

Until Netflix turned off 5.1 in Sept, many 8500 users enjoyed 5.1 from Netflix using optical to AVR. Amazon's 8500 app apparently has no problem delivering 5.1 via optical today.

Not certain what Netflix's 5.1 problem is other than a wonky implementation of DD; I doubt the 8500's EDID has anything to do with the Netflix bug, but I could be proven wrong.

Netflix in stereo not 5.1

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post #3708 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 08:12 PM
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You're correct 8500's low = 16-235. I didn't apply the hack. For my setup, the key to consistency was setting the amd gpu to 0-255.
OK, a little confused. I would think for consistency you would set the gpu color space to 16-235 to match the 8500s "low" setting and the wmc color space.

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Don't believe the EDID interacts with the GPU when using optical for the 8500's apps.
It doesn't; but it DOES prevent compressed audio (DD and DTS) from being sent over the HDMI cable to the 8500. Read my original post again.

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Until Netflix turned off 5.1 in Sept, many 8500 users enjoyed 5.1 from Netflix using optical to AVR. I believe Amazon's app has no problem delivering 5.1 via optical today.

Netflix in stereo not 5.1
Yeah, 5.1 works great on the Amazon app and the HBO GO app. Don't know why Netflix can't get their act together.
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post #3709 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 08:24 PM
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OK, a little confused. I would think for consistency you would set the gpu color space to 16-235 to match the 8500s "low" setting and the wmc color space.



It doesn't; but it DOES prevent compressed audio (DD and DTS) from being sent over the HDMI cable to the 8500. Read my original post again.


Yeah, 5.1 works great on the Amazon app and the HBO GO app. Don't know why Netflix can't get their act together.
It's evidently counterintuitive. With the AMD gpu, combining the RGB Limited pixel setting with the 16-235 'dynamic range' setting apparently causes the gpu to perform two 'compress/expand' operations, leading to repeatable black level clipping in my setup.

No need to reread: my first reply pointed out HDMI ARC doesn't support 5.1 for the 8500's apps.

Agreed.

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post #3710 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 08:49 PM
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No need to reread: my first reply pointed out HDMI ARC doesn't support 5.1 for the 8500's apps.
I never mentioned HDMI ARC or 8500 apps in my first post so I don't really know why you brought it up.

What I want to do is pass through the 5.1 compressed audio to the Toslink optical output on the 8500. This can be done with HDMI sources that are capable of ignoring the 8500's EDID such as the Xbox. I need to get my GPU to ignore the EDID but I don't know if that is possible.
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post #3711 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 08:58 PM
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I never mentioned HDMI ARC or 8500 apps in my first post so I don't really know why you brought it up.

What I want to do is pass through the 5.1 compressed audio to the Toslink optical output on the 8500. This can be done with HDMI sources that are capable of ignoring the 8500's EDID such as the Xbox. I need to get my GPU to ignore the EDID but I don't know if that is possible.
Try googling "EDID Override"
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post #3712 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 09:03 PM
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Try googling "EDID Override"
Thanks, as mentioned in my first post already tried that. Might try a Dr. HDMI device but kinda pricy.
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post #3713 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 09:06 PM
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Thanks, as mentioned in my first post already tried that. Might try a Dr. HDMI device but kinda pricy.
Sorry. That does seem to be an overpriced box. Maybe a used one from fleabay?

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post #3714 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 09:41 PM
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3. I would prefer to send the DD 5.1 stream across the HDMI so that it will pass through to the optical out port on the F8500 and on to my AVR. In principle this will work (disabling "display discovery" on my Xbox proves that DD 5.1 is passed through to the optical out on the plasma) but the EDID of the F8500 is telling the GPU that it will only accept 2 channel PCM and no compressed formats. So far I have not been able to get an EDID override to work. If anyone has any other suggestions for this would be appreciated.
Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
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post #3715 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 10:25 PM
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Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
Yep, that's why ARC is useless. Less headaches using optical. Better yet, connect all devices to AVR first and have AVR process audio signal for 5.1.
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post #3716 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 10:47 PM
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Not possible with this tv. Here's a pic from Samsung Support showing the audio out limitations of the tv from an hdmi source, in addition to other inputs.
Interesting. I know for a fact that I can do it with my Xbox connected via HDMI and turning off "display discovery" feature on the Xbox. I can run the Xbox as a WMC extender and am able to play live TV while passing through DD 5.1 through the optical out to my AVR. Works like a charm. My guess is that Samsung is relying on the EDID (if you run moninfo on the 8500 you will see that it only allows 2 channel PCM) on their HDMI ports to stop DD video. If you defeat this, it works.
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post #3717 of 4076 Old 01-01-2015, 10:53 PM
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Yep, that's why ARC is useless. Less headaches using optical. Better yet, connect all devices to AVR first and have AVR process audio signal for 5.1.
I do this now but wanted a little cleaner setup. instead of two toslink cables (one from HTPC to AVR and one from 8500 to AVR) I would like to have one cable and not have to switch sources on the AVR when view app videos on the 8500. I am also having some slight lip sync issues which might be alleviated by going the HDMI audio route.
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post #3718 of 4076 Old 01-02-2015, 12:03 AM
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Originally Posted by fiteclub View Post
I do this now but wanted a little cleaner setup. instead of two toslink cables (one from HTPC to AVR and one from 8500 to AVR) I would like to have one cable and not have to switch sources on the AVR when view app videos on the 8500. I am also having some slight lip sync issues which might be alleviated by going the HDMI audio route.
I can relate to the lip sync issues. For me it was issues connecting devices to AVR and then to tv. My DirecTV box would occasionally have HDMI handshake issues causing the audio to drop completely with just annoying static sound while picture was still showing. Had to power AVR off and on to reestablish handshake. Would do that once or twice a day. Since I only have a 2.1 system, decided optical was an easier and more stable route for my system.
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post #3719 of 4076 Old 01-02-2015, 08:30 AM
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I just received my PN51F8500 and have a quick question about gamma on this set. What is the average gamma at 0 and how does it change in each direction (is. 0=2.2, -1=2.3, etc)? Thanks!
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post #3720 of 4076 Old 01-02-2015, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
a) I'm not going to trust a display that hasn't been measured and calibrated to use as my reference. why would I buy a meter, and spend hours with software if all I had to do was match it to a stock display? sorry, but I don't trust a MacBook pro over actual calibration software and tools, even if they are relatively basic ones
I'm not suggesting that you don't use your meter to calibrate your TV. It would be very difficult to calibrate your TV just by comparing it to another display. However, once you have calibrated your TV, it is useful (and reassuring) to compare movies and images on it to a calibrated monitor, that has been calibrated with something like i1Profiler to the same gamma as your TV. i1Profiler creates a LUT that can result in very accurate display of images on your computer.

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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
b) the camera isn't supposed to change anything, your display might, and that's why these photos are never really that useful. if the screen cap looks the same as the photo, then the camera hasn't changed anything, and my photo will look like the screen cap on your display as well. still can't get it to show on your display the way it shows on my display, so none of this is really worth THAT much trouble. but for the sake of me learning the controls and how to take a photo, I can't imagine a better comparison.
If you are displaying the screen capture and your photo on the TV, and they look exactly the same, then what you have done is to create a photo that has the same RGB values as the original screen capture. This doesn't tell you how your TV is performing as to whether it has a proper calibration or not. Which is why I suggest comparing images on your TV to images (not photos) on a properly calibrated monitor.

I am going to calibrate my TV with i1Profiler and compare images on the TV with and without the color profile created by i1Profiler. If there is no change in the displayed image when I turn the color profile on and off, then I will know that I have a good TV calibration. If there is some change, I will be able to tell where I need to work on the TV calibration.

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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
c) if my display has a red spike, or whatever, the photo should exaggerate that, when it doesn't, I'd argue it's MORE likely a sign that I don't have a red spike. it's super unlikely I've figured out the exact compensation in the camera to eliminate that, and not change anything else. especially when I'm not playing with any white balance controls or stuff like that.
Yes, agree you would be unlikely to exactly compensate for a red spike. But if you don't know that the photo is a good representation of what's on the TV, it is of limited usefulness as a calibration check. For instance, if you don't set white balance or contrast, the photo will suggest issues that aren't really there (for example crushed blacks).

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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
d) basically my picture matching has NOTHING to do with showing you what I see. that's simply not possible. my calibration can't not be seen on another display. what I'm trying to do is take a more accurate picture, haha.
Fair point. I'm trying to take the most accurate photo so that I can show you guys what my TV looks like. I'm not trying to use my photos as a calibration tool.

Samsung PN60F8500, TiVo Roamio, ASRock Vision 3D HTPC, Chromecast
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