F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 130 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #3871 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 01:25 PM
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odd, the photo should be showing up as an attachment.
I think he means your PetSmart link doesn't link to any specific item, just a page full of PetSmart products.
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post #3872 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 02:05 PM
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I think he means your PetSmart link doesn't link to any specific item, just a page full of PetSmart products.
Yes, thank you. I should have been clearer.

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post #3873 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 02:09 PM
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So I was about to buy one of the ideal lume bias lights today....but when I was at petsmart buying dog food I saw they had a 6500k fish light on clearance for 20 bucks...couldn't resist.

http://m.petsmart.com/h5/hub?id=fish..._id%3D36-16486

IPhone pic below. Gotta stop playing with settings and stuff...driving wife crazy
My last bias light setup used a different bulb, but one made for the same application. I just can't figure out where all the magic comes from to justify the name brand bias light's price.

Here's the one I used. 6500K CCT. 98 CRI.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002AQA8E/
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post #3874 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 06:43 PM
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AVS Brightness Calibration question

On my PN51F8500, when using AVS Brightness Calibration 47 & 48 work, showing everything up to bar 16. With 46, bar 17 disappears and with 49, the entire screen dithers green. Should I got with 47 or 48?
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post #3875 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
On my PN51F8500, when using AVS Brightness Calibration 47 & 48 work, showing everything up to bar 16. With 46, bar 17 disappears and with 49, the entire screen dithers green. Should I got with 47 or 48?

I had a similar decision to make. With 48 I got a little red dithering in letter boxes when playing movies. With 47 the letter boxes were full black (black optimizer is set to dark room if it matters and Cinema Smooth is on). I decided I prefer the look of 47 but I think either setting would be close enough to being correct.
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post #3876 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
I had a similar decision to make. With 48 I got a little red dithering in letter boxes when playing movies. With 47 the letter boxes were full black (black optimizer is set to dark room if it matters and Cinema Smooth is on). I decided I prefer the look of 47 but I think either setting would be close enough to being correct.
I have black optimizer at auto since, in the day, the tv gets quite a bit of sun. I decided to settle on 48 as I feel I get more shadow detail while not crushing blacks. Letter boxes show no dithering either.
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post #3877 of 4117 Old 01-12-2015, 08:52 PM
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Does anyone and pieandchips settings for this tv?
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post #3878 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 09:14 AM
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I have had my PN64F8500 for a while, and I have to say that for dark room viewing it has never impressed me. In a totally dark room, the screen is easily visible (appearing only a dark grey even with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room) and I notice a significant amount of image retention. When viewing content the screen looks okay, but the black bars with movies and the Oppo home screens have never impressed me. In a dark room I am not happy with the performance of this set. I have installed some bias lighting which improves the performance quite a bit, but I would like to make the most of my set in addition to augmenting it with external help.

I have seen some posts about people getting into the service menu and lowering the mll by playing around with voltages and such. Are any of these safe to try for an inexperienced user?

I did have it calibrated at purchase, and supposedly the mll was measured to be .003 ftl with a max brightness of 40 ftl in Cal-Night (Cell Light = 14) and 50 ftl in Cal-Day (Cell Light = 20).
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post #3879 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebefspz View Post
I have had my PN64F8500 for a while, and I have to say that for dark room viewing it has never impressed me. In a totally dark room, the screen is easily visible (appearing only a dark grey even with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room) and I notice a significant amount of image retention. When viewing content the screen looks okay, but the black bars with movies and the Oppo home screens have never impressed me. In a dark room I am not happy with the performance of this set. I have installed some bias lighting which improves the performance quite a bit, but I would like to make the most of my set in addition to augmenting it with external help.



I have seen some posts about people getting into the service menu and lowering the mll by playing around with voltages and such. Are any of these safe to try for an inexperienced user?



I did have it calibrated at purchase, and supposedly the mll was measured to be .003 ftl with a max brightness of 40 ftl in Cal-Night (Cell Light = 14) and 50 ftl in Cal-Day (Cell Light = 20).

Buy an OLED and your "issues" will be solved it has been known for sometime that it is a very dark grey not complete black on this set. Bias lighting will help, but if you are looking for uniform black blacks then OLED will be your only solution in a dark room. All Plasma and LCDs will have a slight glow somewhere.


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post #3880 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by exhaile View Post
Does anyone and pieandchips settings for this tv?
PieAndChips settings (PN51F8500)

F8500 Recommended Settings Thread.....

Is your search this thread broken?
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post #3881 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebefspz View Post
I have had my PN64F8500 for a while, and I have to say that for dark room viewing it has never impressed me. In a totally dark room, the screen is easily visible (appearing only a dark grey even with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room) and I notice a significant amount of image retention. When viewing content the screen looks okay, but the black bars with movies and the Oppo home screens have never impressed me. In a dark room I am not happy with the performance of this set. I have installed some bias lighting which improves the performance quite a bit, but I would like to make the most of my set in addition to augmenting it with external help.

I have seen some posts about people getting into the service menu and lowering the mll by playing around with voltages and such. Are any of these safe to try for an inexperienced user?

I did have it calibrated at purchase, and supposedly the mll was measured to be .003 ftl with a max brightness of 40 ftl in Cal-Night (Cell Light = 14) and 50 ftl in Cal-Day (Cell Light = 20).
Hmm.... when was this calibrated and by who? 40ftl is really high for cell light 14 and 50ftl even at 20 cell is high. Mine calibrated from myself on movie mode with 20 cell light with black optimizer set to dark room is shooting out 38.5ftl...

While all plasmas will emit a slight glow... the blacks should not be what you are describing. The VT series and Kuro series will challenge the f8500 for deepest blacks but not by much.

There is a thread for voltage tweaks but I would not touch that... especially if you paid someone to do a calibration.. you will need to redo it.
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post #3882 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Hmm.... when was this calibrated and by who? 40ftl is really high for cell light 14 and 50ftl even at 20 cell is high. Mine calibrated from myself on movie mode with 20 cell light with black optimizer set to dark room is shooting out 38.5ftl...

While all plasmas will emit a slight glow... the blacks should not be what you are describing. The VT series and Kuro series will challenge the f8500 for deepest blacks but not by much.

There is a thread for voltage tweaks but I would not touch that... especially if you paid someone to do a calibration.. you will need to redo it.
When I had my 64F8500 calibrated last February, movie mode with a cell light of 16 produced 42 ftl, and 20 produced 51 ftl.
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post #3883 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ebefspz View Post
I have had my PN64F8500 for a while, and I have to say that for dark room viewing it has never impressed me. In a totally dark room, the screen is easily visible (appearing only a dark grey even with Black Optimizer set to Dark Room) and I notice a significant amount of image retention. When viewing content the screen looks okay, but the black bars with movies and the Oppo home screens have never impressed me. In a dark room I am not happy with the performance of this set. I have installed some bias lighting which improves the performance quite a bit, but I would like to make the most of my set in addition to augmenting it with external help.

I have seen some posts about people getting into the service menu and lowering the mll by playing around with voltages and such. Are any of these safe to try for an inexperienced user?

I did have it calibrated at purchase, and supposedly the mll was measured to be .003 ftl with a max brightness of 40 ftl in Cal-Night (Cell Light = 14) and 50 ftl in Cal-Day (Cell Light = 20).

I get 40 ftL or so with 16 Cell light and contrast at 96 so that seems about right. My panel only gets down to .004 ftL.


What you are experiencing is normal. I had a ST60 prior to the F8500 and it was certainly 'blacker' (and it measured at .002 ftL). I just bought a used Kuro 5020FD and it looks blacker in a dark room as well (I got .001 on my iD3 with it once but that's rare...it usually can't measure it at all).


The F8500 isn't the king of mll unfortunately. I would suggest a little room lighting or a bias light. It will look better in those conditions.
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post #3884 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:35 AM
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I just mounted my 64" F8500 with a tilting slim mount...I only have about 1.5 inches of clearance behind the TV.


Do you guys think that's enough...I know it asks for 4"
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post #3885 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:43 AM
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Additional comments on my 2014 panel. On the ANSI contrast pattern I was only able to get a mll of .007 or so (it fluctuates between .007 and .008) and just for yucks I ran ten snapshots of the letter box while a movie was running (Ran a ten point grayscale in HCFR but used the letter box for all readings) and each reading was in the .010 to .011 range with what I would call 'medium brightness' in the content area of the film. I'd say all of this is consistent with what Zoyd has measured as APL increases. For a frame of reference my side lit LED has darker letter boxes (I think it was in the .004 range with the same test). But they achieve this with local dimming so it's not like that set is an overall superior display.


The F8500 has many strengths and is a pretty versatile display but they weren't going for ultimate black that's for sure.
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post #3886 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jeff2112 View Post
I just mounted my 64" F8500 with a tilting slim mount...I only have about 1.5 inches of clearance behind the TV.


Do you guys think that's enough...I know it asks for 4"

Well, FWIW, Samsung sells a wall mount that is listed as compatible with the F8500, and this official Samsung wall mount only provides 0.6" clearance


http://www.samsung.com/us/video/tvs-...s/WMN3000BX/ZA


http://www.samsung.com/us/system/con...cSheet_R06.pdf
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post #3887 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 11:49 AM
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I purchased the set from Value Electronics, and it was calibrated by Kevin Miller. I just went back to check the email I received containing the measurements I mentioned, and my memory was correct: MLL = .003 fL, peak light output Cal-Day = 50.5 fL (Cell Light = 20). Given that each click of Cell Light changes light output by approximately 1.5 fL, with Cell Light set at 14 in Cal-Night the light output should be about 40 fL.

I do realize that the screen will always be visible in a totally dark room and that the blacks will never be 'perfect.' I did have a ZT60 before this, however (it broke), and subjectively the black bars on movies are much more noticeable (to where they are distracting) and the Oppo screens not nearly as deep. I was surprised the first time I turned on the set, and over time my impression hasn't changed. In a totally darkened room, I don't remember the black level being this distracting on either my old Panasonic TC-P65S2 or the TC-P65ST60 that I tried out.

This is the only aspect of the F8500 that I don't like, so I am just looking to see if there are any tweaks I can try to boost the black level performance a little more.
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post #3888 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 12:20 PM
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I get 40 ftL or so with 16 Cell light and contrast at 96 so that seems about right. My panel only gets down to .004 ftL.


What you are experiencing is normal. I had a ST60 prior to the F8500 and it was certainly 'blacker' (and it measured at .002 ftL). I just bought a used Kuro 5020FD and it looks blacker in a dark room as well (I got .001 on my iD3 with it once but that's rare...it usually can't measure it at all).


The F8500 isn't the king of mll unfortunately. I would suggest a little room lighting or a bias light. It will look better in those conditions.
Today's calibration, using your workflow (thanks), gives 33 or 34 ftL on my 64, cell 13, contrast 95. One tick of the cell usually gives a 2-3 ftL change at contrast 95.

This must have been asked before, why does the AVS HCFR APL large pattern I used today yield much different dE's from measuring with the AVS HCFR Windows, both with the same settings?

Was using the Windows patterns until recently reading both Zoyd's and Sotti's recommendation to use APL large with plasmas.

Depending on the pattern the black measures either 0.009 (APL) or 0.003 (windows.)

Today's gray scale/gamma calibration looks great, just don't understand the magic of the APL patterns.
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post #3889 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Today's calibration, using your workflow (thanks), gives 33 or 34 ftL on my 64, cell 13, contrast 95. One tick of the cell usually gives a 2-3 ftL change at contrast 95.

This must have been asked before, why does the AVS HCFR APL large pattern I used today yield much different dE's from measuring with the AVS HCFR Windows, both with the same settings?

Was using the Windows patterns until recently reading both Zoyd's and Sotti's recommendation to use APL large with plasmas.

Depending on the pattern the black measures either 0.009 (APL) or 0.003 (windows.)

Today's gray scale/gamma calibration looks great, just don't understand the magic of the APL patterns.
I also struggle with the APL Patterns. When I use small apl, i get contrast of 10-14k... I am also able to get great dE results. However, with large apl, my contrast is always in the 5k range.... my ten point balance has -10 and +10s just to get my rgb flat lined.... but then I am unable to adjust gamma because iv maxed my 10 point. Anyone experience this? I seriously can only use small apl for it to work for me.
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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
I also struggle with the APL Patterns. When I use small apl, i get contrast of 10-14k... I am also able to get great dE results. However, with large apl, my contrast is always in the 5k range.... my ten point balance has -10 and +10s just to get my rgb flat lined.... but then I am unable to adjust gamma because iv maxed my 10 point. Anyone experience this? I seriously can only use small apl for it to work for me.
Today's results, same settings:
APL Large: Avg Gamma 2.29, Contrast 3744
Windows: Avg Gamma 2.36, Contrast 9728

I thought the APL contrast measured too low, but it looks great.

Just don't understand how the same settings can yield wildly different measurements, depending on pattern.

My 10 pt for comparison:
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post #3891 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 01:00 PM
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Plasmas have a load dependent transfer function. This is most easily noticed when using large windows as a fall off in luminance at high stimulus (ABL). But they also vary at the opposite end when average luminance is low (10% or so windows on a black background) so APL patterns are recommended because they are closer to the load levels the display will have during average content.
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post #3892 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by bmcn View Post
Today's results, same settings:
APL Large: Avg Gamma 2.29, Contrast 3744
Windows: Avg Gamma 2.36, Contrast 9728

I thought the APL contrast measured too low, but it looks great.

Just don't understand how the same settings can yield wildly different measurements, depending on pattern.

My 10 pt for comparison:
My 10 point is different but my white space is close. Again, I can get a good calibration measure with small apl... but am 100% unable to even touch gamma with the large apl because I will have a + or - 10.... something seems wrong with that.
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My 10 point is different but my white space is close. Again, I can get a good calibration measure with small apl... but am 100% unable to even touch gamma with the large apl because I will have a + or - 10.... something seems wrong with that.
I'm pleased with the 2pt, best ever for me, and only 1/30 10pts are >4. Weird you have vastly different 10 pt measures.

I'm certain someone will chime in and state how much better it is if one uses 20pt APL Large.

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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Plasmas have a load dependent transfer function. This is most easily noticed when using large windows as a fall off in luminance at high stimulus (ABL). But they also vary at the opposite end when average luminance is low (10% or so windows on a black background) so APL patterns are recommended because they are closer to the load levels the display will have during average content.
magic explained; thanks.
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post #3895 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jeff2112 View Post
I just mounted my 64" F8500 with a tilting slim mount...I only have about 1.5 inches of clearance behind the TV.


Do you guys think that's enough...I know it asks for 4"
Yes it's enough. My manual only specifies 4" around the 4 sides of the display, not the back.

More on this can be found in the owners' thread.
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post #3896 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 03:21 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Plasmas have a load dependent transfer function. This is most easily noticed when using large windows as a fall off in luminance at high stimulus (ABL). But they also vary at the opposite end when average luminance is low (10% or so windows on a black background) so APL patterns are recommended because they are closer to the load levels the display will have during average content.
Any idea why the large apl windows make it uncalibratable for me? Its seriously like an average dE of 5 with default setting vs an average dE of like 2 with a max of 5 with small apl. Contrast is 12k vs 5k. By the time I go through 2pt and 10pt and flatten my rgb... i have + and - 10s... so when I go to add or substract green to adjust gamma curve I am unable to modify RB to match. Really frustrating. Obviously I get good measures with Small APL and to my eye, a good image... but I wonder if this is even correct.

I also want to know why when I run the constant measure to adjust 10pt... why the numbers flicker and go up and down so often and never stabelize? Lastly, do you measure with the blue slider (where you adjust the number value), or do you back out of settings and measure just the window then reopen to adjust slider. I ask because my numbers are different with the slider open vs closed.

Sorry for all the questions but now that I got the meter, have ran a few calibrations... im ready to get this nice and tight.
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I believe the RGB flickering you describe occurs for the same reason the 'probe' returns a different frequency each time one synchronizes it with the panel at the beginning of a session. The output (refresh) of the panel varies on a subsecond basis.

At higher values (~>30%) the RGB measurement will eventually stabilize. On near blacks (10, 20%), it typically measures a wider band, but usually 'flickers' consistently between two dE's, so if the meter doesn't settle down, I use the mid point. More accurate (expensive) meters take more readings in the same amount of time compared to the i1.

No doubt the blue slider influences the B value, perhaps by one tick. After adjusting B, I remove the slider and remeasure.

Iirc, one can change 2pt and 10pt from the service menu, which could make calibrations less tedious.

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post #3898 of 4117 Old 01-13-2015, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeff2112 View Post
I just mounted my 64" F8500 with a tilting slim mount...I only have about 1.5 inches of clearance behind the TV.


Do you guys think that's enough...I know it asks for 4"
To play it safe I would buy 2 USB fans and place them in back /top of TV's vents blowing outward and up.

I planning on doing this and I have my TV on the stand.

Plasmas give off heat so any help would be a good thing and never hurt. Just make sure you do your research and get some quiet fans.


Just place fans vertically on top vents blowing upward as oppose to back vents and outwards. These TV's are meant to vent heat from top (vertical) vents.

coolerguys are the go to for fans.

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Originally Posted by MrGoomba View Post
Any idea why the large apl windows make it uncalibratable for me? Its seriously like an average dE of 5 with default setting vs an average dE of like 2 with a max of 5 with small apl. Contrast is 12k vs 5k. By the time I go through 2pt and 10pt and flatten my rgb... i have + and - 10s... so when I go to add or substract green to adjust gamma curve I am unable to modify RB to match. Really frustrating. Obviously I get good measures with Small APL and to my eye, a good image... but I wonder if this is even correct.

I also want to know why when I run the constant measure to adjust 10pt... why the numbers flicker and go up and down so often and never stabelize? Lastly, do you measure with the blue slider (where you adjust the number value), or do you back out of settings and measure just the window then reopen to adjust slider. I ask because my numbers are different with the slider open vs closed.

Sorry for all the questions but now that I got the meter, have ran a few calibrations... im ready to get this nice and tight.
i had similarly poor results when i tried using the large APL patterns.

i tried using the small APL patterns, and compared to the windows patterns. i didn't see any improvement using the APL patterns personally, and the measured results were 'close'. it affected gamma slightly, and the ends of the grayscale, but i couldn't be confident of which one was 'more correct' so i just stick with the windows for now.

i think for me, the on/off nature is more important than 'ansi'. i don't know if those are the right terms to explain it, but for gamma, i'm more sensitive to a full dark image being 'off' than i am a high contrast scene. i think(i assume really) the APL patterns would yield better results for an image displaying bright and dark at the same time, but the windows patterns might be better when the content shifts from fully bright scenes to fully dark scenes. i don't think with plasma there is a way to get the best of both.

anyway, i think whatever you choose, should be an improvement. i decided to opt for basic windows. but if you want to use APL patterns, i'd suggest just sticking with the small apl patterns. i think the large ones are too bright and make it harder to get dark scenes looking there best.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #3900 of 4117 Old 01-14-2015, 07:47 AM
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2 pt. setting question:

I recall reading somewhere that when setting 2 pt white it is more accurate to reduce the R&B offsets and gains, rather than increasing same to achieve balance.
Is there an advantage with this approach?
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