F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 138 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4111 of 4140 Old 03-27-2015, 04:50 PM
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I just got my brand new 51" last night and I'm super impressed with it. Definitely the best tv I've ever owned, or even seen personally. I'm using the pieandchips settings now, which look outstanding, but I will probably try a few more and pick favorites.
Has anyone had any trouble accessing the cal day and night options from the service menu? I use my tv for movies and gaming in relatively bright and dim settings, so it would be extremely helpful for me to have a couple more calibrations saved on my tv. But if I bricked my tv, it would take me a long time to recover emotionally from such a blow. I've seen the instructions kindly posted by wxman earlier in the thread, but I'm wondering if even by following those instructions carefully I could still slip and mess something up permanently.
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post #4112 of 4140 Old 03-27-2015, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Trentaferd View Post
I just got my brand new 51" last night and I'm super impressed with it. Definitely the best tv I've ever owned, or even seen personally. I'm using the pieandchips settings now, which look outstanding, but I will probably try a few more and pick favorites.
Has anyone had any trouble accessing the cal day and night options from the service menu? I use my tv for movies and gaming in relatively bright and dim settings, so it would be extremely helpful for me to have a couple more calibrations saved on my tv. But if I bricked my tv, it would take me a long time to recover emotionally from such a blow. I've seen the instructions kindly posted by wxman earlier in the thread, but I'm wondering if even by following those instructions carefully I could still slip and mess something up permanently.
I reset my tv after every FW update. So I have to reactivate day/night cal every time. I never had a problem when following the instructions. Just do it slowly and you will be fine.
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post #4113 of 4140 Old 03-29-2015, 04:36 PM
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Is the only difference between, say, movie mode and standard the ability to do the 10 pt calibration? It seems to my eye that when I've got the same numbers plugged in on both modes, with 10 pt set to auto on movie, that the picture is not identical between them, with standard being noticeably brighter. Perhaps I don't fully understand how 10 pt works, or there is something intangible to me that is operating to cause the pictures to be different.
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post #4114 of 4140 Old 03-29-2015, 04:56 PM
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^ Standard Mode is brighter than Movie Mode. It's not an optical illusion.
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post #4115 of 4140 Old 03-29-2015, 08:01 PM
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That's interesting. Do the other two modes, relaxed and, I forget what the other one is, have unique quirks as well? How do Cal day and Cal night compare to the other modes?
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post #4116 of 4140 Old 03-29-2015, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trentaferd View Post
That's interesting. Do the other two modes, relaxed and, I forget what the other one is, have unique quirks as well? How do Cal day and Cal night compare to the other modes?
Cal Day and night are basically 2 more Movie modes. So in reality you get 3 movie modes which you can take your originally calibrated movie mode, plug into day and night and adjust cell brightness for each. Movie/Day/Night are the most accurate OOTB and closest to D65.
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post #4117 of 4140 Old 03-29-2015, 09:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Trentaferd View Post
Is the only difference between, say, movie mode and standard the ability to do the 10 pt calibration? It seems to my eye that when I've got the same numbers plugged in on both modes, with 10 pt set to auto on movie, that the picture is not identical between them, with standard being noticeably brighter. Perhaps I don't fully understand how 10 pt works, or there is something intangible to me that is operating to cause the pictures to be different.
Movie mode is the closest to D65 OOTB. Standard runs much cooler. White looks more blue and skin tones more pink on Standard mode vs Movie.
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post #4118 of 4140 Old 03-30-2015, 01:39 PM
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Thanks again for the help, everyone. I feel a bit clueless with all of the questions I'm asking, but I do have one more if you'd indulge me. I've been looking online for the past hour or so and I can't find any recommended values for the 3d sub-menu, such as 3D Perspective and Depth. Is it just a matter of personal preference? Not sure what the L/R change means either.
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post #4119 of 4140 Old 03-31-2015, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Trentaferd View Post
Thanks again for the help, everyone. I feel a bit clueless with all of the questions I'm asking, but I do have one more if you'd indulge me. I've been looking online for the past hour or so and I can't find any recommended values for the 3d sub-menu, such as 3D Perspective and Depth. Is it just a matter of personal preference? Not sure what the L/R change means either.
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure those settings are only used when you are converting a 2D source to 3D. If you're watching a 3D blu ray or a 3D title on Netflix, those settings do nothing.
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post #4120 of 4140 Old 04-02-2015, 04:00 PM
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For those of you who are/have calibrated your sets with a meter and are not just plugging in random settings, what have you found is the best gamma to target for dim viewing on my iDisplay Pro with Calman? I target 32ftL as my max output. Always have. But haven't quite figured out what would be an ideal gamma setting for my environment. It seems that a lot of people are just leaving their Gamma at 0, which I think translates to somewhere in the flat 2.3 range if I'm not mistaken? Without individual 10-point gamma controls, I'm sure I'd go insane trying to get a BT1886 curve.

Coming from my Panasonics, where most people end up with somewhere in the 2.20-2.25 range regardless, I was wondering what gamma target you think looks best on the 8500 in a dim viewing environment? And I guess while I'm at it, what about CMS? Are you guys mostly doing a traditional 100/75 or a 75/75 adjustment?

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post #4121 of 4140 Old 04-02-2015, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
For those of you who are/have calibrated your sets with a meter and are not just plugging in random settings, what have you found is the best gamma to target for dim viewing on my iDisplay Pro with Calman? I target 32ftL as my max output. Always have. But haven't quite figured out what would be an ideal gamma setting for my environment. It seems that a lot of people are just leaving their Gamma at 0, which I think translates to somewhere in the flat 2.3 range if I'm not mistaken? Without individual 10-point gamma controls, I'm sure I'd go insane trying to get a BT1886 curve.

Coming from my Panasonics, where most people end up with somewhere in the 2.20-2.25 range regardless, I was wondering what gamma target you think looks best on the 8500 in a dim viewing environment? And I guess while I'm at it, what about CMS? Are you guys mostly doing a traditional 100/75 or a 75/75 adjustment?
BT1886 really isn't anymore difficult to do than a 'flat' curve. you make adjustments exactly the same way, so it's really the same difficulty imo. i'm not sure why you'd do either without using the 10pt controls though...

for CMS, it seems like you're better off looking at 75% saturations, and then do minor tweaks when you run the full sweep, if necessary.

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post #4122 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 06:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
For those of you who are/have calibrated your sets with a meter and are not just plugging in random settings, what have you found is the best gamma to target for dim viewing on my iDisplay Pro with Calman? I target 32ftL as my max output. Always have. But haven't quite figured out what would be an ideal gamma setting for my environment. It seems that a lot of people are just leaving their Gamma at 0, which I think translates to somewhere in the flat 2.3 range if I'm not mistaken? Without individual 10-point gamma controls, I'm sure I'd go insane trying to get a BT1886 curve.

Coming from my Panasonics, where most people end up with somewhere in the 2.20-2.25 range regardless, I was wondering what gamma target you think looks best on the 8500 in a dim viewing environment? And I guess while I'm at it, what about CMS? Are you guys mostly doing a traditional 100/75 or a 75/75 adjustment?
I'm making the same transition myself, I was always a fan of a modified 2.1 to 2.3 gamma for night viewing on my Vt60 will be trying the same thing on the 8500.
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post #4123 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 07:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alettiere View Post
For those of you who are/have calibrated your sets with a meter and are not just plugging in random settings, what have you found is the best gamma to target for dim viewing on my iDisplay Pro with Calman? I target 32ftL as my max output. Always have. But haven't quite figured out what would be an ideal gamma setting for my environment. It seems that a lot of people are just leaving their Gamma at 0, which I think translates to somewhere in the flat 2.3 range if I'm not mistaken? Without individual 10-point gamma controls, I'm sure I'd go insane trying to get a BT1886 curve.

Coming from my Panasonics, where most people end up with somewhere in the 2.20-2.25 range regardless, I was wondering what gamma target you think looks best on the 8500 in a dim viewing environment? And I guess while I'm at it, what about CMS? Are you guys mostly doing a traditional 100/75 or a 75/75 adjustment?
I use HCFR rather than Calman and since it exposes more of the raw numbers to you it's more likely to drive you a bit crazy when trying to reach gamma targets. Having said that I ended up leaving Gamma at 0 because it seemed like the numbers lined up better through the grayscale. When I adjusted it to -1 I had to fight things a little bit more in ten point. In any case I've learned not to aim for the perfect chart and try to follow a less is more approach.

And I agree with those that say BT.1886 is pretty easy to do. You just end up throwing more gang adjustments into the lower ranges...no big deal. However I did find 'default BT.1886' to look a bit washed out since it evened out at around 2.2 gamma so I adjusted the calculation to get a similar curve out of black but even off around 2.3.

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post #4124 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 09:24 AM
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I use HCFR rather than Calman and since it exposes more of the raw numbers to you it's more likely to drive you a bit crazy when trying to reach gamma targets. Having said that I ended up leaving Gamma at 0 because it seemed like the numbers lined up better through the grayscale. When I adjusted it to -1 I had to fight things a little bit more in ten point. In any case I've learned not to aim for the perfect chart and try to follow a less is more approach.

And I agree with those that say BT.1886 is pretty easy to do. You just end up throwing more gang adjustments into the lower ranges...no big deal. However I did find 'default BT.1886' to look a bit washed out since it evened out at around 2.2 gamma so I adjusted the calculation to get a similar curve out of black but even off around 2.3.
How do you think a flat 2.4 looks? I am trying to figure out what a good target is to start with. What are the pros using? I know that 2.4 on my VT only looks good on newer reference content. Anything older is unwatchable.

The reason why I would think it wouldbe harder is because there isn't a 10 point gamma control like the Panasonics have. Panasonics have the three RGB adjustments at each 10 point and one for each gamma point. How do you adjust it on the Samsungs? I thought there is just a single gamma control. Not multiple.
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post #4125 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 09:38 AM
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How do you think a flat 2.4 looks? I am trying to figure out what a good target is to start with. What are the pros using? I know that 2.4 on my VT only looks good on newer reference content. Anything older is unwatchable.

The reason why I would think it wouldbe harder is because there isn't a 10 point gamma control like the Panasonics have. Panasonics have the three RGB adjustments at each 10 point and one for each gamma point. How do you adjust it on the Samsungs? I thought there is just a single gamma control. Not multiple.
IMO 2. 4 looked fine in a dark room but I wanted to be able to turn the lights on occasionally without changing the settings so I brightened it up a bit. After a while it is just splitting hairs.

On the Samsung you raise or lower all three equally in ten point to make gamma adjustments. Some people call that a 'gang' adjustment. Pretty much does the same thing as ten point gamma controls on the Panny.

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post #4126 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
IMO 2. 4 looked fine in a dark room but I wanted to be able to turn the lights on occasionally without changing the settings so I brightened it up a bit. After a while it is just splitting hairs.

On the Samsung you raise or lower all three equally in ten point to make gamma adjustments. Some people call that a 'gang' adjustment. Pretty much does the same thing as ten point gamma controls on the Panny.
I understand now. Makes sense.

So what gamma is usually easiest to hit a 2.4? 0, -1, -2? I'm just trying to get a good baseline of where to start after I am done with break in.
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post #4127 of 4140 Old 04-03-2015, 11:15 AM
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-1 is closer to 2.4, pretty easy to verify for yourself
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post #4128 of 4140 Old 04-07-2015, 10:04 AM
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Well I've come full circle and Cinema Smooth is back to On.

It's harder to calibrate and I see flicker from time to time in content (it is VERY apparent in 25% APL grayscale test patterns but not as bad with moving images) but it seems to be the best compromise for ME when watching 1080p/24 Blu-rays.

Motion Judder Canceller set to Standard provides pretty incredible motion resolution with 1080p/24 (The level of visible detail really IS amazing) but it's way too smooth most of the time.

Running at 60hz is too blurry for me due to the pulldown. And most of the motion resolution goes down the toilet. I really wish Samsung did this better. My old ST60 looked great in 60hz with their motion smoothing set to low but the F8500 can't hang in its available 60hz modes.

Cinema Smooth On seems to be about in the middle in all respects. Smooth but not too smooth with decent detail. Only downside other than the flicker is some oddness that looks like frame skipping from time to time.

So I guess I'll be living with some occasional flicker....at least until I change my mind again or go to recalibrate and get irritated with how jumpy the readings are.
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post #4129 of 4140 Old 04-07-2015, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AMartin56 View Post
Well I've come full circle and Cinema Smooth is back to On.

It's harder to calibrate and I see flicker from time to time in content (it is VERY apparent in 25% APL grayscale test patterns but not as bad with moving images) but it seems to be the best compromise for ME when watching 1080p/24 Blu-rays.

Motion Judder Canceller set to Standard provides pretty incredible motion resolution with 1080p/24 (The level of visible detail really IS amazing) but it's way too smooth most of the time.

Running at 60hz is too blurry for me due to the pulldown. And most of the motion resolution goes down the toilet. I really wish Samsung did this better. My old ST60 looked great in 60hz with their motion smoothing set to low but the F8500 can't hang in its available 60hz modes.

Cinema Smooth On seems to be about in the middle in all respects. Smooth but not too smooth with decent detail. Only downside other than the flicker is some oddness that looks like frame skipping from time to time.

So I guess I'll be living with some occasional flicker....at least until I change my mind again or go to recalibrate and get irritated with how jumpy the readings are.

You just like to calibrate
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post #4130 of 4140 Old 04-08-2015, 04:24 PM
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Every week I measure white balance and it goes down by 2-3% in red. So I bump up the red gain and the next week it happens again.
Is this continuing for you? I have also measured a small decrease in red luminance over the last couple of weeks, panel is at ~1100 hours.
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post #4131 of 4140 Old 04-08-2015, 05:20 PM
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Is this continuing for you? I have also measured a small decrease in red luminance over the last couple of weeks, panel is at ~1100 hours.
I haven't looked since posting. I will look this weekend. I have a theory that there is a limiter in the circuitry that is decreasing red when the brightness is too high. I run at 174cdm2. So I will try and decrease blue and green instead of bumping red and maybe that will work although with slightly less brightness.

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post #4132 of 4140 Old 04-17-2015, 05:30 PM
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I reset my tv after every FW update. So I have to reactivate day/night cal every time. I never had a problem when following the instructions. Just do it slowly and you will be fine.
I don't reset my tv everytime after a firmware update. Is there something I am missing here ? I only do this when I have problems after a Firmware update, which was once since ownership.
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post #4133 of 4140 Old 04-17-2015, 10:47 PM
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I don't reset my tv everytime after a firmware update. Is there something I am missing here ? I only do this when I have problems after a Firmware update, which was once since ownership.
Thanks,
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I do it because I'm a bit OC with FW updates. No need to do it at all if you have no issues. I just like a fresh start after each update. However, I have stopped doing the updates since I don't use Smarthub, and that's basically all these FW updates do anymore.
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post #4134 of 4140 Old 04-19-2015, 12:33 PM
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Would someone speak specifically on how black optimizer achieves its results?

If it is using pulse width modulation, is it shortening the pulse duration, increasing the timing between pulses or something entirely different to achieve a darker black level?

In whatever it does to achieve the blacker black level, are there any negative side effects?

Seems that most of us are using "dark room" setting. I'm just wondering if that's necessarily the best setting when viewed in light (yes...a pun) of other moving image elements.

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post #4135 of 4140 Old 04-19-2015, 01:31 PM
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zoyd,

Who calibrated your F8500 and what firmware were you running when calibrated?

Thanks!

Yours,

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post #4136 of 4140 Old 04-19-2015, 01:53 PM
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Would someone speak specifically on how black optimizer achieves its results?

If it is using pulse width modulation, is it shortening the pulse duration, increasing the timing between pulses or something entirely different to achieve a darker black level?

In whatever it does to achieve the blacker black level, are there any negative side effects?

Seems that most of us are using "dark room" setting. I'm just wondering if that's necessarily the best setting when viewed in light (yes...a pun) of other moving image elements.
The dark room setting has the minimum number of reset pulses (probably just one). During the reset pulse the pixel is primed for primary discharge by creating a bit of wall charge and it's this glow that you see as MLL. The downside of only 1 reset pulse is that it can create misfires when the previous state was one of high luminance. So that's why you can't crank it up as high with it set to dark room. Other than that it has no affect on actual content rendering.
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post #4137 of 4140 Old 04-19-2015, 01:54 PM
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zoyd,

Who calibrated your F8500 and what firmware were you running when calibrated?

Thanks!

Yours,

Byrdman
Hi - I calibrated it and the firmware version has not had any effect on the settings.
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post #4138 of 4140 Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM
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Zoyd,

I read somewhere you have firmware version 1206. Just curious if you can still get into the advanced service menu. Not the standard service menu but the advanced where you need to enter 0000 to activate it. I can't anymore using my factory service remote.

Thanks,
Steve

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Hi - yes, the advance menu is still accessible with 1206.
Thanks!

I must be doing something wrong. I'll program my Harmony and try it from there.

Steve
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