F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 139 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #4141 of 4170 Old 04-21-2015, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
Hi - yes, the advance menu is still accessible with 1206.
Thanks!

I must be doing something wrong. I'll program my Harmony and try it from there.

Steve
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post #4142 of 4170 Old 04-30-2015, 09:01 AM
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Shadow detail and brightness issues

Hi all, i'm having an issue with shadow detail on my 51" samsung 8500. Long story short, overall my picture looks great: deep dark blacks, great contrast, bright picture. This is in comparison to my panasonic st-60. But i'm getting relatively poor shadow detail, much worse than my st-60, even in a dark room at night (though tv filter is so good it doesn't make an enormous difference). Where there should be detail, there is only blackness. So far I have only watched netflix and amazon prime via the tv's built-in apps, so i am somewhat limited in the picture adjustments i can make (though I think black optimizer is the only important setting grayed out). Also, i have probably only had the tv on for a total of 100 or so hours total. Finally, initially i was watching the tv with a panel light setting of 13 or 14, but i found it to be so bright that it was hurting my eyes over extended viewing, so i have it at a panel brightness of 3 now! I know that seems rediculously low, but it honestly seems plenty bright to me. Contrast is set to mid to high 90s and brightness is in the 50s. I discovered recently that Standard mode seems to have better shadow detail than movie mode with other settings being equal. I now have the most recent firmware installed (1207 or 1208 i think). So, my questions:

1. What is the best way to increase shadow detail? Brightness, contrast, gamma, or panel light (or a combination)?

2. Should lower panel light output increase or decrease shadow detail? I feel like it increases shadow detail but that could be because my other settings aren't right.

3. Will further panel burn in help my situation?

4. Is there something wrong with my eyes or my tv that i have it set to panel light setting of 3? At this setting i feel that it is roughly as bright as my panasonic st-60 (which is a great, modern plasma tv).

5. Would resetting my settings help?

6. Is it possible this problem is exclusive to the netflix and amazon prime apps? Or possibly a consequence of not watching content through an hdmi port?

Thanks in advance everyone!
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post #4143 of 4170 Old 04-30-2015, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon1 View Post
Hi all, i'm having an issue with shadow detail on my 51" samsung 8500. Long story short, overall my picture looks great: deep dark blacks, great contrast, bright picture. This is in comparison to my panasonic st-60. But i'm getting relatively poor shadow detail, much worse than my st-60, even in a dark room at night (though tv filter is so good it doesn't make an enormous difference). Where there should be detail, there is only blackness. So far I have only watched netflix and amazon prime via the tv's built-in apps, so i am somewhat limited in the picture adjustments i can make (though I think black optimizer is the only important setting grayed out). Also, i have probably only had the tv on for a total of 100 or so hours total. Finally, initially i was watching the tv with a panel light setting of 13 or 14, but i found it to be so bright that it was hurting my eyes over extended viewing, so i have it at a panel brightness of 3 now! I know that seems rediculously low, but it honestly seems plenty bright to me. Contrast is set to mid to high 90s and brightness is in the 50s. I discovered recently that Standard mode seems to have better shadow detail than movie mode with other settings being equal. I now have the most recent firmware installed (1207 or 1208 i think). So, my questions:

1. What is the best way to increase shadow detail? Brightness, contrast, gamma, or panel light (or a combination)?

2. Should lower panel light output increase or decrease shadow detail? I feel like it increases shadow detail but that could be because my other settings aren't right.

3. Will further panel burn in help my situation?

4. Is there something wrong with my eyes or my tv that i have it set to panel light setting of 3? At this setting i feel that it is roughly as bright as my panasonic st-60 (which is a great, modern plasma tv).

5. Would resetting my settings help?

6. Is it possible this problem is exclusive to the netflix and amazon prime apps? Or possibly a consequence of not watching content through an hdmi port?

Thanks in advance everyone!
I think a professional calibration would help greatly. Otherwise, use movie mode, warm1 instead of warm 2. Lower brightness to around 45. I know you don't like a higher cell light, but with movie mode you should be able to raise it to 13 or 14 and it will look better. I tried a low cell light under 10, and detail is lost. Standard is very bright compared to movie mode. Movie mode is much closer to 65K out of the box, compared to Standard, which is way too cool. Plus gamma in Movie mode is better than Standard model. Choose a gamma of zero or +1.
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post #4144 of 4170 Old 04-30-2015, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon1 View Post
Hi all, i'm having an issue with shadow detail on my 51" samsung 8500. Long story short, overall my picture looks great: deep dark blacks, great contrast, bright picture. This is in comparison to my panasonic st-60. But i'm getting relatively poor shadow detail, much worse than my st-60, even in a dark room at night (though tv filter is so good it doesn't make an enormous difference). Where there should be detail, there is only blackness. So far I have only watched netflix and amazon prime via the tv's built-in apps, so i am somewhat limited in the picture adjustments i can make (though I think black optimizer is the only important setting grayed out). Also, i have probably only had the tv on for a total of 100 or so hours total. Finally, initially i was watching the tv with a panel light setting of 13 or 14, but i found it to be so bright that it was hurting my eyes over extended viewing, so i have it at a panel brightness of 3 now! I know that seems rediculously low, but it honestly seems plenty bright to me. Contrast is set to mid to high 90s and brightness is in the 50s. I discovered recently that Standard mode seems to have better shadow detail than movie mode with other settings being equal. I now have the most recent firmware installed (1207 or 1208 i think). So, my questions:

1. What is the best way to increase shadow detail? Brightness, contrast, gamma, or panel light (or a combination)?

2. Should lower panel light output increase or decrease shadow detail? I feel like it increases shadow detail but that could be because my other settings aren't right.

3. Will further panel burn in help my situation?

4. Is there something wrong with my eyes or my tv that i have it set to panel light setting of 3? At this setting i feel that it is roughly as bright as my panasonic st-60 (which is a great, modern plasma tv).

5. Would resetting my settings help?

6. Is it possible this problem is exclusive to the netflix and amazon prime apps? Or possibly a consequence of not watching content through an hdmi port?

Thanks in advance everyone!
I would think that your source material has a lot to do with your dissatisfaction. Try Blu Ray or at least HD cable or satellite.
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post #4145 of 4170 Old 04-30-2015, 04:13 PM
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Netflix via the tv app should not look like it lacks detail. If you are getting HD from Netflix it should look as good satellite or cable tv HD.
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post #4146 of 4170 Old 05-01-2015, 04:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solomon1 View Post
Hi all, i'm having an issue with shadow detail on my 51" samsung 8500. Long story short, overall my picture looks great: deep dark blacks, great contrast, bright picture. This is in comparison to my panasonic st-60. But i'm getting relatively poor shadow detail, much worse than my st-60, even in a dark room at night (though tv filter is so good it doesn't make an enormous difference). Where there should be detail, there is only blackness. So far I have only watched netflix and amazon prime via the tv's built-in apps, so i am somewhat limited in the picture adjustments i can make (though I think black optimizer is the only important setting grayed out). Also, i have probably only had the tv on for a total of 100 or so hours total. Finally, initially i was watching the tv with a panel light setting of 13 or 14, but i found it to be so bright that it was hurting my eyes over extended viewing, so i have it at a panel brightness of 3 now! I know that seems rediculously low, but it honestly seems plenty bright to me. Contrast is set to mid to high 90s and brightness is in the 50s. I discovered recently that Standard mode seems to have better shadow detail than movie mode with other settings being equal. I now have the most recent firmware installed (1207 or 1208 i think). So, my questions:

1. What is the best way to increase shadow detail? Brightness, contrast, gamma, or panel light (or a combination)?

2. Should lower panel light output increase or decrease shadow detail? I feel like it increases shadow detail but that could be because my other settings aren't right.

3. Will further panel burn in help my situation?

4. Is there something wrong with my eyes or my tv that i have it set to panel light setting of 3? At this setting i feel that it is roughly as bright as my panasonic st-60 (which is a great, modern plasma tv).

5. Would resetting my settings help?

6. Is it possible this problem is exclusive to the netflix and amazon prime apps? Or possibly a consequence of not watching content through an hdmi port?

Thanks in advance everyone!
Cell light of 3 is pretty low. For dark room viewing, the lowest I ever go is around 8. If you feel like you are missing out on shadow detail, try changing your gamma to +1. Make sure you recheck your brightness/contrast setting so they are right/not clipping.
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post #4147 of 4170 Old 05-01-2015, 05:17 AM
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Make sure you properly set black level and contrast. Raise cell light somewhere around 17, the adjust gamma (0 or + 1 should be what you're looking for)

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post #4148 of 4170 Old 06-17-2015, 10:16 AM
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post #4149 of 4170 Old 06-23-2015, 07:44 AM
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Did a new firmware update last night to 1208. Anybody know what it was for.
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post #4150 of 4170 Old 06-23-2015, 10:59 AM
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Did a new firmware update last night to 1208. Anybody know what it was for.
As always, since 1116 (or maybe 1117), app updates only.
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post #4151 of 4170 Old 07-09-2015, 09:39 AM
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As always, since 1116 (or maybe 1117), app updates only.

Try 1209; it reduced mll on my 2014 panel from 0.006 fl to 0.0033.
Attached Files
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File Type: zip 8500 Settings 070915.zip (7.5 KB, 28 views)

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post #4152 of 4170 Old 07-09-2015, 10:04 AM
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Try 1209; it reduced mll on my 2014 panel from 0.006 fl to 0.0033.
I've got a gorgeous Chad B calibration applied to my 64F8500 (which took him many hours to do).


If 1209 really does reduce mll and improve black level as some people are saying, will I screw up my calibration if I apply the update?
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post #4153 of 4170 Old 07-09-2015, 10:18 AM
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I've got a gorgeous Chad B calibration applied to my 64F8500 (which took him many hours to do).


If 1209 really does reduce mll and improve black level as some people are saying, will I screw up my calibration if I apply the update?
My 8500 calibration is a work in progress that's taken 6 months thus far.

This morning I used a grayscale/gamma calibration from earlier in the week as a baseline for today's color cal session. Other than the mll improvement I didn't notice any significant changes. I attribute the inconsistent color dE's in the spreadsheet to my lack of experience and I fine tuned r&b in 10 pt this morning, so the two sessions aren't directly comparable. It's possible 1209 tinkered with the color; ask Chad or Zoyd.
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post #4154 of 4170 Old 07-09-2015, 11:55 AM
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I have a feeling if it does it is only tweaking the black optimizer, which would not change the calibration. However, I would welcome any insight Zoyd might have on the matter.

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post #4155 of 4170 Old 07-13-2015, 05:41 PM
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for what it's worth, i ran a quick pass(greyscale and color) on my fw 1204, ran the update, and then ran another quick pass. the fw update did not affect anything, i've had less consistent results running back to back sweeps without making any changes...

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post #4156 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 10:24 AM
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for what it's worth, i ran a quick pass(greyscale and color) on my fw 1204, ran the update, and then ran another quick pass. the fw update did not affect anything, i've had less consistent results running back to back sweeps without making any changes...
Did you check the MLL?
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post #4157 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 11:06 AM
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Test Patterns Dimming During Calibration

While using a 25% APL and 10% window to calibrate, I've noticed that the luminance of test patterns 50 IRE and higher will slowly decline with time. For example, I'll measure a peak brightness of 41 ftL at the start of greyscale calibration and then measure 39.x ftL 15 mins later. This same problem also happens with 10% windows. This makes gamma calibration a PITA.

I read on another forum that this can be defeated by setting the picture size to 16:9 and turing on pixel shift, but that doesn't have any effect on my TV. Anybody have the same problem? Solution? All of the eco/energy stuff is off.

Thanks,
Steve
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post #4158 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 11:17 AM
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While using a 25% APL and 10% window to calibrate, I've noticed that the luminance of test patterns 50 IRE and higher will slowly decline with time. For example, I'll measure a peak brightness of 41 ftL at the start of greyscale calibration and then measure 39.x ftL 15 mins later. This same problem also happens with 10% windows. This makes gamma calibration a PITA.

I read on another forum that this can be defeated by setting the picture size to 16:9 and turing on pixel shift, but that doesn't have any effect on my TV. Anybody have the same problem? Solution? All of the eco/energy stuff is off.

Thanks,
Steve
I don't have a meter but I have seen similar behavior on my set by eye. For example, with the ansi checkerboard pattern and cell light, I usually can see the first visual change in brightness going from 12->11 but at other times I see the shift going from 13-12, the rest of the settings being the same. I think it has something to do with menu popping up and changing APL but I'm not really sure.
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post #4159 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 12:43 PM
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What I'm describing has nothing to do with changing the cell light. The screen dims on its own with a static test pattern displayed and you need a meter to measure it.
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post #4160 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 01:05 PM
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Did you check the MLL?
no change. it actually went up from .009cd/m^2 to .010, but that's normal of my display and sensor. it tends to increase from around .008 to .011 as i run the patterns.

not sure if it matters, but i have done some voltage tweaking on the back panel as well

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post #4161 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 01:14 PM
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no change. it actually went up from .009cd/m^2 to .010, but that's normal of my display and sensor. it tends to increase from around .008 to .011 as i run the patterns.

not sure if it matters, but i have done some voltage tweaking on the back panel as well
Thanks. I have the voltage mod and measure 0.009 cd/m^2 to 0.01 too. I was hoping 1209 dropped it even further.
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post #4162 of 4170 Old 07-23-2015, 07:16 PM
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Thanks. I have the voltage mod and measure 0.009 cd/m^2 to 0.01 too. I was hoping 1209 dropped it even further.
i don't claim to know how these panels work, but it would only make sense to me if they could do what we did with the voltage 'pots' digitally. like if those controls were set through the service menu, then i could see how a fw update could MAYBE change them and improve MLL like doing the voltage tweak does.

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post #4163 of 4170 Old 07-24-2015, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
I'm skeptical that such a thing exists but I'll have a more critical look at it tonight.

Here are my suggested settings for this display. They will produce something closer to a reference image than any of the presets and will be a good starting point for when y'all buy a meter.

Subdued room lighting
Brightness: adjust using test pattern 1 click below where level 16 shows green dithering, typically 48 or 49.
Contrast: 95
Cell light: set for comfortable long-term viewing (range for cell 12-15 will be approximately 30-35 ftL)
Sharpness: 0
Color: 55
Tint: default
Movie mode: warm 2 or warm 1. (warm 2 is closer to spec but may appear greenish at lower stimulus levels in which case use warm 1 instead)
Gamma: -1 (minimal lighting, bump up to 0 if you lose black detail or if material is not well-suited to this setting)
2 pt. White Balance if using warm 2
r offset 26
g offset 22
b offset 23
r gain 28
g gain 24
b gain 24
Color space: Custom
Red: 38 0 0
Green: 24 47 3
Blue: 0 0 45
Yellow: 47 46 5
Cyan: 27 49 51
Magenta: 41 0 49
10 pt control (leave this off if you want closer to pure power law gamma at 2.4):
Level 1: 4,4,4
Level 2: 2,2,2
Level 3: 1,1,1
others default.
Digital clear view: low is good for SD material and sub-par HD, otherwise off
Picture size: screen fit
Black optimizer: dark room
For 24p input turn cinema smooth on.
all other enhancements off

deltas for moderate room lighting:
Cell = 15-20 (set for comfortable long-term viewing, will be ~35-45 ftL)
Gamma = 0
Color = 53

deltas for bright room:
Cell = 15-20 (set for comfortable long-term viewing, will be ~45-55 ftL)
Gamma = +1
Color = 50
Black optimizer = Bright room or Auto

If you need even more light output then switch to standard mode:
Cell = 15-20 (17 on my display yields 75 ftL)
Contrast = 90 (above 90 standard mode begins clipping)
Gamma = +1
Color = 50
Color space: custom as above
Black optimizer = Bright room
@zoyd , are these recommendations still current (considering firmware upgrades, etc)?
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post #4164 of 4170 Old 07-24-2015, 11:30 AM
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@zoyd , are these recommendations still current (considering firmware upgrades, etc)?
I don't have any reason to think otherwise except for the white balance settings which are problematic to begin with. The red output on my display has dropped ~10% since I got it. But general CMS and cell/contrast/gamma levels etc. are the same.
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post #4165 of 4170 Old 07-25-2015, 02:18 PM
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i don't claim to know how these panels work, but it would only make sense to me if they could do what we did with the voltage 'pots' digitally. like if those controls were set through the service menu, then i could see how a fw update could MAYBE change them and improve MLL like doing the voltage tweak does.
That seems possible to me too. One thing I have tossed around in my mind is pulling the board out of the TV and adding a second adjustable POT so I could dial the MLL down even lower. I don't have any perceptible miss fires yet and it would be fun to experiment with it.
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post #4166 of 4170 Old 07-25-2015, 08:12 PM
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That seems possible to me too. One thing I have tossed around in my mind is pulling the board out of the TV and adding a second adjustable POT so I could dial the MLL down even lower. I don't have any perceptible miss fires yet and it would be fun to experiment with it.
yeah maybe. i have misfires on mine, but they are either less perceptible than the normal dithering, or only occur under extremely rare situations. if i have like a 98% solid back screen, and the 2% is bright white, i'll see tons of magenta sparkles in the white.

i tried doing the voltage tweaks on my older samsung b530, and i'm pretty sure i didn't get any better. at first i thought i did, but when i fired the tv up cold the next day, tons of issues until it warmed up about 30mins later. i left the back panel off for a couple days so i could keep tweaking if anything came up, and it continually did. sometimes when cold, sometimes when warm, sometimes with high contrast scenes, sometimes with low APL scenes, sometimes with high APL scenes. by the end of it i was just trying to get it back to where it was, haha. the MLL on that tv is super terrible, and after the voltage tweaks it's now just sorta terrible i guess, haha. wasn't worth the effort imo though.

after that experience, i'll probably leave my f8500 as is for as long as it's working fine. doing the voltage tweak on the f8500 was so rewarding, it's probably good i had that other experience to keep me down to earth on my expectations.

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post #4167 of 4170 Old 07-29-2015, 04:28 PM
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I don't have any reason to think otherwise except for the white balance settings which are problematic to begin with. The red output on my display has dropped ~10% since I got it. But general CMS and cell/contrast/gamma levels etc. are the same.
If this is the case then are there any other manual tests I can run to adjust my red (or other colors presumably) on my own w/out a meter, or if I were to get a meter, which would you recommend?
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post #4168 of 4170 Old 07-29-2015, 04:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattAlex151 View Post
If this is the case then are there any other manual tests I can run to adjust my red (or other colors presumably) on my own w/out a meter, or if I were to get a meter, which would you recommend?

I would recommend the I1d3 aka I1Display Pro and HCFR for software.
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I have HBO free for a couple months; I've been binging Game of Thrones on HBOGo. Lots of dark scenes, when the screen gets really dark, the detail shows as ghostly grey blobs. One scene where a figure slowly emerges from total darkness was particularly egregious. I ended up lowering brightness to 37, leaving contrast at 97 and cell light at 20, and now the figure emerges smoothly and naturally in that scene. However, moderately dark scenes in general (eg candle-light) get really dark, and detail seems to be lost.

Is this just artifacts from streaming, or are my settings messed up?
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HBOGO isn't the best quality. GoT deserves to breath. Do yourself a favor and pick up the Blu-Rays


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