F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

hmmm...auto is certainly better than native but my TV requires lower luminance in all colors plus a good dollop of red in the green channel. If you look at this post the auto results fall almost exactly between the green (custom) and red (native) curves. I would expect copied custom settings to push the distribution a bit to the left.

For my D7000, there is not enough difference that a novice would notice.

max dE for Auto (not including the inherent green and cyan problem with the D7000 series) is about 5. max dE calibrated (again not including the inherent green and cyan problem with the D7000 series) is about 3.

AUTO


Calibrated


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post #542 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:37 PM
 
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

your CMS numbers are similar to the D8000 in needing significant red in the green and cyan channels and some desaturation overall. The luminance levels are close to what auto gives you. thanks for taking the time to post your numbers. I am still amazed that not one person did any useful DIY work on the E series on this forum.

biggrin.gif Thank you Zoyd.

I'm sure a calibrated decent meter and a Pro could get way different results, but I have what I have.
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post #543 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:39 PM
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Pie,

About your obsession smile.gif with the tiny peak in your gamma point curve -- the one that I've told you to ignore, zoyd just posted in the calibration thread:

"gamma at 80% and 90% is inherently noisy because you are taking ratios of two small numbers in log/log space, that's why you often see spikes there but they are meaningless."

Said much better than I did.

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post #544 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

For my D7000, there is not enough difference that a novice would notice.

max dE for Auto (not including the inherent green and cyan problem with the D7000 series) is about 5. max dE calibrated (again not including the inherent green and cyan problem with the D7000 series) is about 3.

Larry

yes but that's for just 6 colors, most of the benefit is in the interior (flesh tones for example).
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post #545 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

yes but that's for just 6 colors, most of the benefit is in the interior (flesh tones for example).

The examples I presented were taken well before the interior calibration sources were available.

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post #546 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 04:57 PM
 
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Zoyd,

While you're here please I'd like your reasoning on why there is a big discrepancy on fL measured with the different sized F8500s. Same window slide. ABL shouldn't be playing a tune?
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post #547 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 05:10 PM
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Could be as simple as power supply limitations, for a given pattern size the larger panel will require more energy. But I'd like to see more statistics on what the actual differences are for various APL levels.
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post #548 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 05:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Pie,

About your obsession smile.gif with the tiny peak in your gamma point curve -- the one that I've told you to ignore, zoyd just posted in the calibration thread:

"gamma at 80% and 90% is inherently noisy because you are taking ratios of two small numbers in log/log space, that's why you often see spikes there but they are meaningless."

Said much better than I did.

Larry

Thanks Larry. The shootout cal had the same peak, so I was wondering why they hadn't addressed it.
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post #549 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 05:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

Could be as simple as power supply limitations, for a given pattern size the larger panel will require more energy. But I'd like to see more statistics on what the actual differences are for various APL levels.

The stats are slowly coming I'm sure smile.gif

How about cell 20 is still a requisite (dependent on panel size) for the F8500?

I found it impossible to do a cal for 35fL at cell 20 on my 51".
It may be true that the large panel requires 20 cell and a lower contrast to get the most out of it... If so it would be good to have that public knowledge.
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post #550 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 05:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

The stats are slowly coming I'm sure smile.gif

How about cell 20 is still a requisite (dependent on panel size) for the F8500?

I found it impossible to do a cal for 35fL at cell 20 on my 51".
It may be true that the large panel requires 20 cell and a lower contrast to get the most out of it... If so it would be good to have that public knowledge.


Given the nature of the display, dropping cell down to 16-17 appears appropriate. If you can still get ANSI whites above 30 ftL for your Day cal go for it.
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post #551 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 05:58 PM
 
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I have what I measured as a 45fL calibration with 16 cell, gamma 0 and contrast at 94 (just before clip). Does that sound acceptable for a 51"?
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post #552 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:03 PM
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For a moderately bright to bright room sure. Peak white for controlled lighting is typically lower depending on your comfort level.
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post #553 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:05 PM
 
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Yeah I mean 'can you get' 45fL from those settings. I'm sure you'd say yes. It doesn't seem to transpose across the F8500 sizes unfortunately.

I appreciate your time thanks so much, and to Larry and Buzz. Great advice from you folks that I really listen to and learn from smile.gif
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post #554 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:09 PM
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Pie,

When you say that you find it "impossible to do a cal for 35fL at cell 20 on my 51".", do you mean because of the 10 point shifting at low contrast setting or do you mean something else?

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post #555 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:20 PM
 
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^ I had to put contrast in the 75-80 region, and gamma at -2 or lower to get dim room +/-30-35fL viewing at 20 cell.
It made the picture very unhealthy looking.
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post #556 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:23 PM
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Pie, define "contrast really low" please.

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post #557 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:24 PM
 
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^ I edited the original post as you were typing probably sorry wink.gif

I have the 51". This seems to be a large factor and should not be compared to a larger set.
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post #558 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:26 PM
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It seems to me that the cell=20 rule is just not appropriate for this panel. If you need a dark room calibration of 30 ftL I think its more important to keep contrast up and if you have to drop cell down to 10 so what? If it still holds that 30 ftL for ANSI pattern I don't see a problem.
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post #559 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post

It seems to me that the cell=20 rule is just not appropriate for this panel. If you need a dark room calibration of 30 ftL I think its more important to keep contrast up and if you have to drop cell down to 10 so what? If it still holds that 30 ftL for ANSI pattern I don't see a problem.

So, on this set, ABL probably not an issue with high contrast and lower cell? (vs lower contrast and higher cell).

On my unit, I was keeping contrast around 90 with cell around 13 for dark room most of the time.

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post #560 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:30 PM
 
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I was just going to ask the same ANSI vs ABL vs panel size question wink.gif
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post #561 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:31 PM
 
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On a full screen 100% white slide, my TV can do 22fL!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif


/sorry that made me lol.
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post #562 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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I agree with zoyd. I calibrated one 8500 and didn't see any reason why it couldn't be done for a max output of about 30 ftL. As he said check the ANSI level.with the checkerboard pattern. Play with combinations of lower Cell and Contrast to find the best.

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post #563 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:33 PM
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post #564 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

On a full screen 100% white slide, my TV can do 22fL!! biggrin.gifbiggrin.gifbiggrin.gif


/sorry that made me lol.

at cell=15?
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post #565 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:40 PM
 
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16, contrast 94, gamma 0. the white looks awful. Very gray.
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post #566 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:40 PM
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post #567 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:44 PM
 
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It was educational and fun for me to throw a full screen 100% white up. Wow, it really has to try and compensate and you end up with gray.
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post #568 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:49 PM
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post #569 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 06:52 PM
 
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What's ten foot Lamberts between friends?
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post #570 of 2187 Old 05-29-2013, 07:12 PM
 
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^ Again theories abound, but mine is that if the panel has a greater overall brightness than any other PDP, they designed the circuitry, and PSU to cope and therefore it can let more fL out before more of the ABL algorithm has to kick in.

...so they set the bar (or curve) higher. It would make sense if the World viewed it as a brighter set, its not because ABL is cutting its' nards off down in the lower values like older sets. There would be no point, right?
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