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post #721 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:27 PM
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Great news about 1104 pie. Thank you for that as I was pretty upset. Perhaps I was reading an old 1103 post where it wrecked the calibration. Whew.

Thank you buzz. I'm really looking forward to your findings and they will decide if this second set goes back too. And yes, even with it calibrated. If I can barely hit 40ftl and everyone else (well, besides one other person) can hit 65ftl then something it really messed up with mine.

I should mention, 1104 did not give me an optimizing msg, nor did it even recycle the power. I wonder if this answers that question too. All of us who are not getting the optimizing msg possibly having defective sets that max out at 40ftl.

Turned Eco ON. It was at 0. Cranked it to 20. Turned it OFF. Got my wife and my buddy to watch, can't see any difference. Nothing is brighter to any of our eyes. Did I need to turn down my Cell/Contrast settings 1st before doing it, then back up after? Cause just turning it ON then upping it to 20 then back off did nothing as far as we can tell. If it did do something it was so minuscule it's hardly worth mentioning.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

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post #722 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:31 PM
 
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^Yes try turning cell down to maybe 15 or so in movie mode first.

FYI 1104 did not produce an optimize message for me.

Does your picture appear really bright to watch especially at night?
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post #723 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:32 PM
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^^call samsung cs have them connect remotely. they should be able to detect whats going on.

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post #724 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:33 PM
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Oh and don't hold me to that. I don't know what I'm talking about. I just assumed Cal "Day" mode unlocked some kind of extra brightness on the panel. It just sounds like it's made for being brighter. Obviously, the experts have shot that down now. I should know not to spout something off before actually KNOWING and instead ASSuming, which is what I was doing. Well, that and having 2 tv's in a row with lower brightness output. It was the only logical conclusion my mind could work out for the differences. But as it's been proven now, the cal day mode does no such thing, people can let my mindless comment go now and not quote it as a definitive statement.

I have a defective tv... plain and simple.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

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post #725 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:36 PM
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no optimize for me either. i did not install 1103 when it was first released... perhaps there was some difference depending on when that one was installed?

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post #726 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:37 PM
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I have a 64", and just plugged in shpankey's #s. I can confidently say even though without a meter there is no way it is at 40ftl. if I had to make an educated guess it has to be at least mid 50'sftl. btw it looks fantastic.

edit: the whites are pretty searing....biggrin.gif

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post #727 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:40 PM
 
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Don't think it's busted just yet.

There's the factory reset option to try - you'd have to put in all the calibration settings again and setup the Media Portal etc.

Perhaps wait until buzz reports back with his findings hopefully this weekend.
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post #728 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Save our souls please Buzz.

20 cell, cont 94, gamma+1 = 40fL? I just can't flipping deal with that.

What in Hades is occurring here?

There have been many questions raised and I'll test whatever I have time for. Particular interests are zoyd's patterns pre and post FW, the Shootout discovery that Grayscale was not adjustable above 50% stimulus with Cell at 20, differences in max luminance movie vs CAL-DAY, if any, possible difference in MLL with RGB input HDMI Level Normal vs Low, and a few others. In the end, I still have to calibrate a display but will get in as much as I can - including a LightSpace Quick Profile to see if the 8500 might be capable of accurate 3D LUT calibration - other ABL sensitive displays are not good candidates....

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post #729 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^Yes try turning cell down to maybe 15 or so in movie mode first.

FYI 1104 did not produce an optimize message for me.

Does your picture appear really bright to watch especially at night?

Just tried with lower cell and contrast. No changes. Still the exact same brightness.

No, definitely not too bright to watch at night. In fact, I'd say it's spot on perfect for night viewing. Day viewing with a lot of light (9 windows) it's not nearly bright enough. It's quite washed out during the day and I would really love to be able to turn it up quite a bit to maintain it's pop and picture quality. It suffers in the day.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #730 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

the Shootout discovery that Grayscale was not adjustable above 50% stimulus with Cell at 20
Concerning this one... my calibrator I believe ran into this at first. I suppose I could ask him what exactly was going on and report back here, but I do remember in the very beginning him running into an issue where he was making some changes and they were NOT taking effect when he remeasured. Like he would make a change and test and it would stay exactly the same. After a few minutes of messing around, he got it to work properly, but definitely at first it wouldn't. I'm not sure what he did to get it to work properly, but he definitely fixed the issue because I watched every single step and after that, the changes worked properly the rest of the way. I say this b/c we calibrated with 20 cell from the start and never deviated.

I'm thinking this was probably the same issue (isn't grayscale done early?). We definitely ran into it but there is a way to make it work. That I know for sure. You may just have to stick with it and it eventually starts working, or he may have done something to make it work, but it will work, as we had it on cell 20 from the start and we never once took it off 20 and you can see my calibration report showing he did it.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #731 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Just tried with lower cell and contrast. No changes. Still the exact same brightness.

[snip]

That's a contradiction within one small paragraph. Or are you still talking about the ECO thingy?

Larry
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post #732 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Concerning this one... my calibrator I believe ran into this at first. I suppose I could ask him what exactly was going on and report back here, but I do remember in the very beginning him running into an issue where he was making some changes and they were NOT taking effect when he remeasured. Like he would make a change and test and it would stay exactly the same. After a few minutes of messing around, he got it to work properly, but definitely at first it wouldn't. I'm not sure what he did to get it to work properly, but he definitely fixed the issue because I watched every single step and after that, the changes worked properly the rest of the way. I say this b/c we calibrated with 20 cell from the start and never deviated.

I'm thinking this was probably the same issue (isn't grayscale done early?). We definitely ran into it but there is a way to make it work. That I know for sure. You may just have to stick with it and it eventually starts working, or he may have done something to make it work, but it will work, as we had it on cell 20 from the start and we never once took it off 20 and you can see my calibration report showing he did it.


This has been an issue going back at least to the D series. Did your calibrator perhaps go into the service menu and reduce the sub-contrast?

Larry
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post #733 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shpankey View Post

Concerning this one... my calibrator I believe ran into this at first. I suppose I could ask him what exactly was going on and report back here, but I do remember in the very beginning him running into an issue where he was making some changes and they were NOT taking effect when he remeasured. Like he would make a change and test and it would stay exactly the same. After a few minutes of messing around, he got it to work properly, but definitely at first it wouldn't. I'm not sure what he did to get it to work properly, but he definitely fixed the issue because I watched every single step and after that, the changes worked properly the rest of the way. I say this b/c we calibrated with 20 cell from the start and never deviated.

I'm thinking this was probably the same issue (isn't grayscale done early?). We definitely ran into it but there is a way to make it work. That I know for sure. You may just have to stick with it and it eventually starts working, or he may have done something to make it work, but it will work, as we had it on cell 20 from the start and we never once took it off 20 and you can see my calibration report showing he did it.

i recall another member having similar issue. cust. svc. fixed it for him. hopefully its that simple!
edit. rereading post it may not have been same thing. sorry!

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post #734 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 07:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Don't think it's busted just yet.
Do you know what slide your calibrator used? He must have known not to use a full screen slide right? (just throwing it out there).
I'm surprised he calibrated it to 40 maxed out and was satisfied - did he know the TV's specs or anything about it?

There's the factory reset option to try - you'd have to put in all the calibration settings again and setup the Media Portal etc.

Perhaps wait until buzz reports back with his findings hopefully this weekend.
He done quite a few sammy's in the past but never an 8500. This was his first (though the tv was and still is really new so I don't hold that against him). He knew some stuff as he shot me a link to it winning the shootout but I don't know if he knew its specs. He did not want it at cell 20 and contrast at 95. I made him calibrate it there as I just couldn't accept less brightness than that. He recommended 33ftl I believe, which he had done a LOT of panny's at but I told him I preferred brighter sets and it's why I chose the 8500, since I deal with 9 windows and a wifey who loves the sun so he accommodated me.

I don't know what he used, despite him telling me in great detail every single thing he used, that stuff might as well be Chinese. I can't remember any of that. lol. You could probably visit his website...

http://www.isfforum.com/details/clearly-resolved.html

...and it may list the tech he used there.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #735 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

i recall another member having similar issue. cust. svc. fixed it for him. hopefully its that simple!
edit. rereading post it may not have been same thing. sorry!
He got it to work on his own. We didn't call customer service or anything. To be honest, if memory serves, he just stuck with it and bam, it started working perfect on its own. But to be honest, I can't say he didn't do something to MAKE it work as I just don't recall. But I did watch carefully after to make sure, it worked properly from then on with the changes he made having expected results... so I do know for sure it was just a one time speed bump that never reared its head again.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #736 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:08 PM
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shpankey,

No one is criticizing your calibrator. The charts show that he did a fine job.

Larry
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post #737 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:08 PM
 
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^ Yeah he sounds certainly in the know. It's kind of rude me even asking if he may have used the wrong slides, so sorry about that, please disregard.
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post #738 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

This has been an issue going back at least to the D series. Did your calibrator perhaps go into the service menu and reduce the sub-contrast?

Larry
He never went into the service menu on the 8500 (he did with my panny 800u). Like I was saying in the post above, I do believe it may have just started working on its own after several tries, but I cannot be positive there wasn't some other trick he did to get it to work. He had ran into the issue on other Samsung's he'd calibrated before so he wasn't too taken aback. Once it started working we just trucked on and I asked him if he was sure it was working right and he said it was. And like I said, the results he expected to get from his changes were the ones that we got, so I wasn't worried at all. I could tell it worked correctly. It's almost like you just had to get it to start working and once it did, you were fine.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #739 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

shpankey,

No one is criticizing your calibrator. The charts show that he did a fine job.

Larry
I didn't take it as such. I apologize if I sounded like I did. I was just trying to be thorough in my explanation. I wouldn't take criticism of "my" calibrator anyhow. lol. He was nice and all, and certainly appeared and sounded extremely knowledgeable and certainly capable. But if he did something wrong, by all means, anyone is free to tell me so and I promise you I will not take the slightest offense. If I sounded that way, I sincerely apologize. Like I said, just trying to be thorough in my description. smile.gif

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #740 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:16 PM
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At lower contrast and cell 20, I've had to adjust the 10pt an interval lower than the window being adjusted to get it to work (so interval 4 adjusts 50% window, etc.) I've read that once you get beyond 88 contrast it switches to line up correctly (interval 5 adjusting 50% window, and so on.) With a lower cell light that transition point in contrast may vary. Example, when I lower my cell from 20 to 15 and then start raising contrast I can see a transition on a greyscale pattern of shading shifting down at about 86 contrast on the way up and stops once I cross 88 or 89.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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post #741 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:21 PM
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Okay, so where do we stand with this issue now? Looks like we have a few 64" owners who have chimed in and stated they can easily reach 50+ fL on their 8500's in movie mode, yet there are a couple 64" owners who seem to max out around 40fL, with a proper calibration......defective tv's? Some internal settings not properly set?
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post #742 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

That's a contradiction within one small paragraph. Or are you still talking about the ECO thingy?

Larry
The eco thing. It was suggested to try lowering the cell first before doing the eco trick then doing it then going back and raising cell back to 20. Doing this had no effect on the overall brightness of the set that all of us here could tell (by all of us here, I mean people at my house right now). Certainly not a noteworthy increase in brightness anyhow. Perhaps it may measure a morsel but to the naked eye, none.

26 What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

Matthew 16:26 NIV
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post #743 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:21 PM
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the one im thinking of had a problem with warm1, warm2, standard etc were all the same. no effect on picture, no differences. the cs remotely did something which fixed that issue on his set. completely different but thought worth mentioning....

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post #744 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:22 PM
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Bama thanks for the info smile.gif

Have you activated the CAL modes?

No I have not. I also forgot to add that I used the large APL images from the AVS disk.
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post #745 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elvamir View Post

At lower contrast and cell 20, I've had to adjust the 10pt an interval lower than the window being adjusted to get it to work (so interval 4 adjusts 50% window, etc.) I've read that once you get beyond 88 contrast it switches to line up correctly (interval 5 adjusting 50% window, and so on.) With a lower cell light that transition point in contrast may vary. Example, when I lower my cell from 20 to 15 and then start raising contrast I can see a transition on a greyscale pattern of shading shifting down at about 86 contrast on the way up and stops once I cross 88 or 89.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

As I said before this has been a quirk with the Samsungs for some time now. If you keep the Contrast above about 88-90 and use the Cell for comfortable viewing, the offset of the 10 point controls is nonexistent.

Larry
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post #746 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

As I said before this has been a quirk with the Samsungs for some time now. If you keep the Contrast above about 88-90 and use the Cell for comfortable viewing, the offset of the 10 point controls is nonexistent.

Larry

Yes, nothing new, and nothing new to the Shootout calibrators which is why I'm interested....

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post #747 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:32 PM
 
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^ So my bullish rookie luck [edit - and a lot of help!] found me at a place where I am now with my calibration? smile.gif
If so I am pleased.

TBH I did have quite a few attempts all with cell 18-20 / contrast 80+ with strange results and value oddities, that I gave up and started again with other permutations.
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post #748 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:35 PM
 
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By the way fun fact; twiddling with Eco ON minimum cell 14 is working rather nicely the last 24 hours.

Skyfall is looking rather nice, not too overpowering.
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post #749 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

Yes, nothing new, and nothing new to the Shootout calibrators which is why I'm interested....

Buzz, they shot for 40 ftL, right? So probably the F8500 ended up with something like Contrast at 90 and Cell at 16. It'll be interesting to see what you get.

edit: I ended up with Contrast at 88 and Cell at 17 on the one 60F8500 that I've calibrated. That was for 40 ftL.

Larry
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post #750 of 2300 Old 05-31-2013, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzard767 View Post

There have been many questions raised and I'll test whatever I have time for. Particular interests are zoyd's patterns pre and post FW, the Shootout discovery that Grayscale was not adjustable above 50% stimulus with Cell at 20, differences in max luminance movie vs CAL-DAY, if any, possible difference in MLL with RGB input HDMI Level Normal vs Low, and a few others. In the end, I still have to calibrate a display but will get in as much as I can - including a LightSpace Quick Profile to see if the 8500 might be capable of accurate 3D LUT calibration - other ABL sensitive displays are not good candidates....

One hell of a homework assignment, but it will surely be fun. smile.gif

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