F8500 Recommended Settings Thread..... - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 2238 Old 06-06-2013, 02:01 PM
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I saw my 2nd ZT60 at another MHT location, giving me a chance to compare them with the F8500s located on the same wall.

To start, I noticed an issue with both of the ZT60s at both locations, a vertical line down the right side of the picture. The line tended to be darker than the surrounding area and appeared to be about 1" or so wide. On the first ZT60, due to the dark scene from Skyfall that was being repeated at the first MHT location, the line wasn't too bad, but still visible. However at the 2nd location, where the MHT store manager does a great job of setting up these panels (certainly better than the average MHT location), the vertical line was much more visible. At this location they were playing an HD nature video and there was a mix of bright daytime scenes together with some darker scenes. In the brighter scenes, you couldn't help but notice the line and its visibility varied depending on the color of the background. No other panel showed this and they were all playing the same material.

Now either this is inherent in the ZT60 or BB has gotten a bad shipment of ZT60s.

However with that said, the comparison of the ZT60 & F8500 was pretty much on par with that of the VT60 & F8500. The daytime scenes were really dramatic, IMO, in that the F8500 had much more depth and looked far more as you'd expect an outdoor scene to look. The ZT60 simply did not have the contrast to show these bright scenes like the F8500 could. At times it was dramatic.

I tried changing the mode to THX Bright Room. Basically that brightened the picture, but also flattened it out in a sense. So the picture was brighter, but the apparent contrast seemed even less. Regardless of settings, I could clearly make out more detail in the F8500.

All things considered, I'm glad I chose the 8500! smile.gif

The other thing I've been meaning to mention, black levels. People always think when they see black in a movie or TV show, it's supposed to be black. But if you've ever read the reviews of Blu Ray movies, they often make the comment that blacks were not true black or were 'not deep' and 'lacking depth'. When there is a movie with excellent blacks, many reviews say as much, generally calling them 'deep' 'rich' etc.

I find the same thing with TV shows we've been watching. When I see a show that doesn't seem to have true blacks, I turn the same show on my Sharp Elite to check it out. Invariably I'll see the same thing on the Elite.

I got to thinking about this after watching TDK on the 8500 and thinking how much blacker could the blacks get and why weren't some TV shows looking as black?

Blacks are not all created equal.
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post #902 of 2238 Old 06-06-2013, 02:13 PM
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I just realized that I had Pixel shift on. Do you leave this feature on?

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post #903 of 2238 Old 06-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Not really necessary. Some believe it helps prevent burn-in or IR in that it moves the picture a few pixels. But others believe it would merely 'blur' the burn-in or IR. Either way it doesn't seem like IR is a big deal on this set.
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post #904 of 2238 Old 06-06-2013, 04:22 PM
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Has anyone calibrated a F8500 with a max output of about 30 to 35 ftL?

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post #905 of 2238 Old 06-07-2013, 07:08 AM
 
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^ Watcha workin' on Larry?

I'm meaning to do one, someday.... Quite happy at the mo with what I have minus some cell notches at night.
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post #906 of 2238 Old 06-07-2013, 03:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

^ Watcha workin' on Larry?

I'm meaning to do one, someday.... Quite happy at the mo with what I have minus some cell notches at night.


Pie, actually I'm wondering if anyone uses this particular set to view in a quite dark room with peak outputs at or below 35 ftL. I'm looking for someone that has the instumentation and knows if any particularities occur at this leve, for example, whether ABL becomes noticeable

There is no way that I can watch and enjoy a movie at night with a peak output of over 35 ftL. (My eyes can barely watch Lawrence of Arabia, the new release, with a peak output of only 33 ftL.) During the day, the screen brightness does not matter much to me since I don't do any critical viewing then. Sports are more a radio thing with some visual replays to fill in the quiet spots. Cable "news" can be listened to through the audio system with the TV off. biggrin.gif I can't think of anything else that I might be interested in during the day and my TV is not on just to be on.

I'm still on the fence between the F8500 and the Panasonic VT60. Yes, the F8500 is bright but there is more to a picture than brightness alone. smile.gif


EDIT: Keep in mind that I am going to buy a 64-65 inch screen where the field of view at a specific peak level becomes a factor.

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post #907 of 2238 Old 06-07-2013, 04:16 PM
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Pie,
Have you decided if you are delving into 3d cal? I am loving the movie mode on my 51. I bought early like you did and think our sets are pretty much assembly siblings wink.gif based on what I have seen in your posts along the way of your calibration journey.
Thanks for all your work, I've got a disney WOW and it does this set no justice.
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post #908 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 04:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post


I'm still on the fence between the F8500 and the Panasonic VT60. Yes, the F8500 is bright but there is more to a picture than brightness alone. smile.gif

Larry

Larry, I'm having Kevin Miller do mine next month. I might have him try a Cal night of 35 or so. BTW, I spoke with Kevin yesterday and he did say the latest firmware fixes the Cal modes. The 8500's he's now been calibrating have presented no issues in Cal mode.

With that said, I agree that there is more to a picture than brightness. I think every owner here would agree with that. But I think the reason most of us went with the 8500 was the combination of great blacks, superior sharpness and superior ABL behavior that can still be clearly seen in a dark room setting. The unprecedented brightness is another plus when light control is difficult during the day.

We just put in motorized blackout shades in our den and I'm enjoying the 8500 more than ever even though extraneous light is no longer an issue. The purity of whites is something I enjoy in any setting and I find easily surpasses anything in the plasma world.

Comparing the ZT to the 8500 the other day, nature scenes had a far more believable look to them. Much closer to the way your brain says they should look and you remember similar scenes to look when you saw them. That 'believability factor', for me, is very key to my viewing enjoyment. The further away I get from that 'believability', the more I feel like I'm just 'watching TV'.

As for black levels, just watch something like TDK in total darkness. Inky blacks (there, I said it wink.gif) and fantastic dynamic range. I see no signs of 'floating blacks', none. I've given my rationale for why I think that's the case, and I firmly believe it. I don't watch any 4:3 material, so I can't attest to that, but typical letterbox material as well as full-screen 16:9, look superb.

Yes, you can get a bit better black levels with a ZT/VT, but IMO you give up that precious combination of other PQ characteristics that you see far more often than the small amount of material that may show a bit better black levels. I know for myself, using TDK as a reference, it's really a stretch for me to believe the blacks could be much better visually and if so, that they could really add much to my viewing enjoyment (especially with what I'd have to give up to get them).

You just need to see both displays side by side and, if possible, in multiple locations.
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post #909 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 05:06 AM
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I wonder if the high level 10 pt will be fixed with this next firmware. ??

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post #910 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 07:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cupstid View Post

Pie, Have you decided if you are delving into 3d cal?.

Hoping to try one in the next few days. Apparently all I need is to don the white lab coat, get the glasses and meter and some duct tape, two coat hangers, an empty cereal box and a tin of paint....
I really don't know how 'accurate' it can be as the meter should be flush against the screen, but it will be fun to try one out.

*Que Dr Evil's laugh*
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post #911 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Cupstid View Post

Pie,
Have you decided if you are delving into 3d cal? I am loving the movie mode on my 51. I bought early like you did and think our sets are pretty much assembly siblings wink.gif based on what I have seen in your posts along the way of your calibration journey.
Thanks for all your work, I've got a disney WOW and it does this set no justice.

Why do you think this about the Disney WOW disc for this set? I'm just wondering because I'm going to be purchasing a 64F8500 in the future and already have the WOW disc. I planned to use this, along with Pies setting. Just curious on you thoughts.
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post #912 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 09:04 AM
 
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WOW is great for brightness and contrast, and has some lovely clips to show off the TV with smile.gif
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post #913 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

WOW is great for brightness and contrast, and has some lovely clips to show off the TV with smile.gif

Awww man, I read so many rave reviews of how this was an awesome, all around, calibration disc. I guess thank god for your hard work and generous sharing of your setting Pie! wink.gif
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post #914 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 09:39 AM
 
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smile.gif

There's nothing wrong with WOW. It's a great disc. Sorry for the misunderstanding. Go through all the adjustment functions.

[edit - typo]
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post #915 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 11:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

With that said, I agree that there is more to a picture than brightness. I think every owner here would agree with that. But I think the reason most of us went with the 8500 was the combination of great blacks, superior sharpness and superior ABL behavior that can still be clearly seen in a dark room setting.
As for black levels, just watch something like TDK in total darkness. Inky blacks (there, I said it wink.gif) and fantastic dynamic range. I see no signs of 'floating blacks', none. I've given my rationale for why I think that's the case, and I firmly believe it. I don't watch any 4:3 material, so I can't attest to that, but typical letterbox material as well as full-screen 16:9, look superb.

Yes, you can get a bit better black levels with a ZT/VT, but IMO you give up that precious combination of other PQ characteristics that you see far more often than the small amount of material that may show a bit better black levels. I know for myself, using TDK as a reference, it's really a stretch for me to believe the blacks could be much better visually and if so, that they could really add much to my viewing enjoyment (especially with what I'd have to give up to get them)
every night i want to post the same thing! many so often say (or imply) its only "great for bright room," but.... f8500 is by no means a slouch when the lights go out! people raved about the black level on the panny st60 which is the same .0016. but now for some reason when a samsung gets .0016 it isnt good enough for night viewing? i think so much gets left off the table when its described as a bright rm set..... i dont find myself wanting for deeper blacks. 99.5% of the time wink.gif

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post #916 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 02:15 PM
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Hey, guys. For those that don't know me, I'm not one of those members that prefer one brand name over the other. I have had six Panasonics (two of which are still in use) and our main TV is the 2011 Samsung D7000. I do my own calibrations with both a spectrometer and a colorimeter. My whites are white even at 30 ftL. I don't need eye searing levels to think I have good whites. smile.gif

My question was simply: Are there any anomalies that show up when the F8500 is calibrated to about 33 ftL? I didn't ask about black levels. I did not say or imply that this unit is "great for bright room," but....

I am looking for technical information from anyone who has calibrated or has had calibrated their F8500 to a peak output (no greater) of 33 ftL.

Larry
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post #917 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 02:41 PM
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^to clarify my post... it was just in general not regarding anyone in particular smile.gif
my apologies for getting off topic...

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post #918 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 06:08 PM
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On my set, 48 brightness is absolutely perfect on test patterns however on some material that should be black there's alot of dither so I ended up putting the brightness at 46. Anyone else doing the same thing? If I wasn't viewing my tv from so close I guess it wouldn't be an issue. I also found the custom color setting even at default levels is better than native or auto. With auto or native the set is in what I call Sharp Elite mode, cyan is not cyan, it's blue. One other thing, when I first got the set I turned off all the extra processing, like motion interpolation and all that. I was watching Transformers 2 and every time there was a slow motion part in the movie, the picture would pause and skip for a moment. I remember seeing someone on here saying turning the tv off then back on fixed a similar issue so I tried that and the issue went away and never returned. I'm guessing motion interpolation was on even though I had it off. Overall this set is stunning, I like a bright picture(45 to 50 ftl) and the ability for this tv to produce deep blacks with really bright whites on the same screen is amazing.
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post #919 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 07:28 PM
 
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^ What size do you have and what was the 'some material'?
By dither are you referring to green sparklies?
I see lots of dither at 49 like you but only very sparse at 48, you can't see it unless you get up really close but it also does not go away at any lower brightness setting.
If you move away four feet or more you can't see it.
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post #920 of 2238 Old 06-08-2013, 08:39 PM
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On my ps3 when music is being played you can set it to show Earth in space and at brightness 48 there's a ton of dither with the stars, red green and blue sparkles. I have the 60" F8500. I think for blu ray 48 is perfect though, I have to spend some more time with the tv and find out.
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post #921 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 02:41 AM
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I have the same dithering in blacks with brightness above 46. At 46 my blacks are just that little bit more black, but thats probably placebo.

Also I'm currently using pie's high 50fl cal at the moment wit cell light at 20, but I feel the gamma could be up a notch (+2). Anyone feel the same?

As said in other posts, I indeed baught this plasma because it's capable of higher brightness, it would be a waste not to make the most use of it wink.gif
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post #922 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 03:29 AM
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I'd rather have slightly less shadow detail than have the dither. I'm coming from a tv that had pretty terrible shadow detail so I'm still getting way more shadow detail than my previous tv.
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post #923 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 07:43 AM
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Also I'm currently using pie's high 50fl cal at the moment wit cell light at 20, but I feel the gamma could be up a notch (+2). Anyone feel the same?
I believe Pie removed that cal....not sure where you got that from.....maybe from someone quoting his older cal? His 45 fL cal is the only one he's maintaining at the moment.
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post #924 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 09:05 AM
 
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^ the 50 was a cell 18 that was burning my eyes wink.gif It was also when I was experimenting and some of the values especially 10p were pushed hard, which I now understand is best not to do.
With cell at 20 it must be getting towards hitting the luminance limits for the TV. You must like it very bright biggrin.gif
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post #925 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 10:18 AM
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Quote:
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I believe Pie removed that cal....not sure where you got that from.....maybe from someone quoting his older cal? His 45 fL cal is the only one he's maintaining at the moment.
i have all his cals written down... 6 total!!

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post #927 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 03:29 PM
 
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^ That was done prior to FW 1103.

1103 changed the base code that the calibration sits on and threw the settings out of whack.

Are you in holland? I'm not sure what the North American to Europe version matches would be.
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post #928 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 03:36 PM
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Yes I'm in the Netherlands.

The current EU version is 1102 so I thought I'd try it. Looks good but it could be that the EU version is different. I'm also trying your other cals, but I'm not quite sure what looks better yet. wink.gif
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post #929 of 2238 Old 06-09-2013, 09:52 PM
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Are there red, green, and blue filters on this set?
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post #930 of 2238 Old 06-10-2013, 05:41 AM
 
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Yes.
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