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post #2371 of 2386 Old 09-15-2014, 08:54 PM
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I spent a little time with my 64" F8500 using HCFR and my iD3. I used MadTPG with 12% windows and 20% gamma light APL. I worked nearly exclusively on gamma and white balance. I was getting around 200cd/m^2 (58fL) on the 100% white window pattern with cell light at 20 and the contrast at 95 (movie mode).





I did take a quick CIE chart measurement. The only thing I changed was the color setting up a few clicks.



I will post my settings after I do a little more tweaking on the gamma and greyscale and use the CMS to dial in the primaries.
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Last edited by Stereodude; 09-16-2014 at 05:15 AM.
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post #2372 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
ok, yeah, I may need intervention soon. got home early from my long weekend trip(too much rain) and I've basically done nothing but mess around with greyscale and gamma for the past 10hrs. and in all honesty, it probably hasn't gotten significantly better in the last 8.5hrs, haha.


it's like trying to go for a new 'high score', just too addictive!


but I've settled in with these settings for now. and the stuff I've watched off the kuro demo disc looks incredible
64PNF8500, Apr 2013, FW 1120
Picture mode: Movie
Cell light: 20
Contrast: 90
Brightness: 41
Sharpness: 0
Color: 47
Tint: 50
Dynamic Contrast: off
Black tone: off
Flesh tone: 0
Color Space: custom
-RED: 70, 0, 0
-GREEN: 25, 70, 0
-BLUE: 0, 0, 68
-YELLOW: 63, 62, 0
-CYAN: 11, 50, 50
-MAGENTA: 50, 3, 61
White Balance:
-RO: 32
-GO: 24
-BO: 25
-RG: 32
-GG: 23
-BG: 26
10p white balance:
-1: 2, 0, 1
-2: 5, 4, 3
-3: 5, 2, 2
-4: 4, 2, 5
-5: 4, 1, 2
-6: 4, -1, 2
-7: 1, -1, 5
-8: -1, -7, -3
-9: -1, -7, 1
-10: -1, -1. -1(I don't think this one actually does anything when contrast is at 90)
Gamma: 0
color tone: warm2
digital clean view: off
MPEG noise filter: off
film mode:auto2
MJC: off
BO: dark room


my results:








on a side note, not sure if anybody else has experienced this, but I almost lost my mind when I made a tiny 'tweak' of 1 value to the GREEN at 80% and suddenly ended up with a graph that looked like this:

fortunately, before I panicked too much, I decided to turn the tv off and on again(I knew there's no way my setting could have done this), and that seemed to fix the issue. no idea what it was about, the tv just stopped working properly and needed to be restarted for some reason
Did you noticed the difference between the blacks that where in the earlier reviews and the ones you got?

For full black screen it was 0.007 cd/m2 you got 0.01 cd/m2
For ansi it was average 0.014 cd/m2, you got 0.023 cd/m2.

I wonder why this happened, i calibrated my set some weeks ago and i noticed that also, i got the same results in the full black screen, didnt mesure the ansi though.

Very good calibration results by the way, i couldn't get a flat 2.4 gamma.

Last edited by saru360; Yesterday at 08:48 AM.
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post #2373 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by mightymouseusf View Post
Gotcha wxman. I wasn't referring only to you, but a previous poster mentioned having to set HDMI black level to low while watching blu rays.
For me on Blu-Rays low is not even an option I can choose. With Comcast (the new X1 box) I believe it was set to low before all my settings got erased. After they were erased the black level was on medium and the blacks were more grey than black. When I put it to low the beautiful perfect blacks returned. This is strange and I wonder why this is?
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post #2374 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 12:17 PM
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You can't change it if your source outputs YCbCr video. It's 16-235 by definition. The fact that you can change it on your X1 box means it's outputs RGB, not YCbCr.
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post #2375 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by saru360 View Post
Very good calibration results by the way, i couldn't get a flat 2.4 gamma.
You should be able to get nearly any gamma you want between the gamma setting and 2 & 10 point white balance controls. You can effectively change the shape of the gamma curve with the green channel settings in the white balance controls.
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post #2376 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 07:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saru360 View Post
Did you noticed the difference between the blacks that where in the earlier reviews and the ones you got?

For full black screen it was 0.007 cd/m2 you got 0.01 cd/m2
For ansi it was average 0.014 cd/m2, you got 0.023 cd/m2.

I wonder why this happened, i calibrated my set some weeks ago and i noticed that also, i got the same results in the full black screen, didnt mesure the ansi though.

Very good calibration results by the way, i couldn't get a flat 2.4 gamma.
I only got my meter recently, so these were the first measurements I'd ever made. but I will say, my values for black steadily rose as I did the calibrations. they start at about .009, and rise to .013 after a few hours. I believe it's the 'ir' of the test patterns making the change. I noticed this the first 'session' and wondered if I'd actually made blacks worse. but after watching content, the 2nd session started at .009 again, and slowly increased as I displayed the windows.


as for the ansi, I think it's always jumped quite a bit, can't blame that on ir


'by eye' I have not noticed a change personally(first got the tv in may 2013). the blacks were always very good, but never looked 'off black' on mine. I believe I called them 'close enough' when I first got it. prior to owning the f8500, I was pretty convinced plasma couldn't match a good CRT. the f8500 is 'close enough' in black levels, that the improved contrast, and clarity are now more significant.


EDIT: I grabbed a quick reading to show what I'm talking about. first run always hits .009 **note, you'd made me realize my PC has reset the vid card settings, all the dumb settings like dynamic contrast and skin tone correct and crap were turned back on, messing with my image. grr




Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One

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post #2377 of 2386 Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by F8500Man View Post
For me on Blu-Rays low is not even an option I can choose. With Comcast (the new X1 box) I believe it was set to low before all my settings got erased. After they were erased the black level was on medium and the blacks were more grey than black. When I put it to low the beautiful perfect blacks returned. This is strange and I wonder why this is?
as stereodude said, once it's grey-ed out it 'defaults' to 16-235, or the low setting. but it won't necessary SAY low when it's greyed out, it'll show you the setting you chose for when it's receiving a RGB input.


for example, my ps3 is also my bluray player. it automatically sends the 16-235 video signal for blurays, and RGB(which I have set to full 0-255) for games. so for this source, I have it set to 'normal'. when I play a bluray, this option is grey-out, reads normal, but I get a 16-235 source, and it's displayed perfectly. when I play a game, it's no longer greyed out, still reads normal, and now I get a 0-255 source that's displayed correctly.


if I changed the setting to low, my blurays would look the same, but games would be much too dark.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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post #2378 of 2386 Old Today, 05:14 AM
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What is the black level in the various optimizer modes using a 25% APL pattern?

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post #2379 of 2386 Old Today, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What is the black level in the various optimizer modes using a 25% APL pattern?
I'm not sure what you're asking? put up a 25% grey pattern and then move the sensor to the edge where its black and measure?


EDIT: well if that's what you want, that's what I did and these are my results. I just did free measures, and let it run 2 or 3 measures until I got the same thing repeatedly. I've attached screenshots in case there's more info in there I don't understand...


I'm still not positive how the 'auto' setting works, if it's based on content or ambient lighting, but if it's ambient lighting, I had my seating lights on, but nothing on near the tv other than a bias light.


BO: off = 0.008ftl
Dark room = 0.003ftl
Bright room = 0.008ftl
Auto = 0.003ftl






Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One

Last edited by fierce_gt; Today at 09:19 AM.
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post #2380 of 2386 Old Today, 09:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoyd View Post
What is the black level in the various optimizer modes using a 25% APL pattern?
I haven't measured that on mine yet. What size window?

Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
I'm not sure what you're asking? put up a 25% grey pattern and then move the sensor to the edge where its black and measure?
No, it's a pattern with a black box in the middle and grey border that makes the APL for the entire screen 25%.
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post #2381 of 2386 Old Today, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Stereodude View Post
I haven't measured that on mine yet. What size window?


No, it's a pattern with a black box in the middle and grey border that makes the APL for the entire screen 25%.
do you know what pattern I'd use for that in HCFR? there's a couple folders, 10/25% greyscale large, 10/25% greyscale small... I'm assuming it's one of those?


large or small?

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post #2382 of 2386 Old Today, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
do you know what pattern I'd use for that in HCFR? there's a couple folders, 10/25% greyscale large, 10/25% greyscale small... I'm assuming it's one of those?

large or small?
I'm not sure. I've been using MadTPG with HCFR myself.
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post #2383 of 2386 Old Today, 10:13 AM
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hmm, guess I can try it with both. I've got the day off anyway, haha

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
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post #2384 of 2386 Old Today, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post
hmm, guess I can try it with both. I've got the day off anyway, haha
MadTPG has sliders to set the window size and APL. You'll need to pick constant APL - Gamma light from the drop down though.
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post #2385 of 2386 Old Today, 10:40 AM
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I meant i'll try both patterns in the HCFR folder. although, I'm pretty certain the 'Large' is much higher than 25% APL. so far I'm basically getting the same results as the ANSI black level with it.


working my way through the "small" right now. so far it seems comparable to my above measures. will update soon.

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post #2386 of 2386 Old Today, 10:59 AM
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ok, time for some more science


I used the 'small' APL patterns from HCFR. I attached an image of the pattern when displaying 10% grey. obviously I used the 0% pattern.


my results:
Dark Room: 0.011/0.003
Bright Room: 0.031/0.009
Auto(lights off): 0.011/0.003
Auto(lights on): 0.032/0.009
Off:0.032/0.009


guess I can confirm the 'auto' setting adjusts based on room lighting too.


now, questions for you guys. I noticed while doing this that I got hugely different gamma curves when using the 'fields', 'windows'(which I could out were 15%), and 'APL patterns'. the greyscale changes a bit as well, but nothing huge, they all stay at least under a dE of 3. but for real content, what do you think is a better reference? the fields seems no good at all, but do you think a 15% window or low APL pattern would be better?
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Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
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Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
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