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Old 04-14-2013, 09:12 AM - Thread Starter
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I am in search for a 65 inch HD 3D TV. I currently have Panasonic 50 inch from 5 years ago that's still running no issues. I been teetering between active and passive 3d and been reading that Panasonic's plasma line is still great.
The answer I can't find is if I should look for deals on GT50 or new ST60. How important is the THX on the GT and what features are different or missing from ST ?

This is what I found on Amazon:

Panasonic VIERA TC-P65GT50 (Glass
Amazon Price: $2,489.99

or

Panasonic TC-P65ST60 6 (Includes 2 Pairs of 3D Active Glasses)
Price: $2,569.98
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by wirelessroute View Post

I am in search for a 65 inch HD 3D TV.......The answer I can't find is if I should look for deals on GT50 or new ST60. How important is the THX on the GT and what features are different or missing from ST ?

It's actually a common question here in various threads and most people would tell you to get the ST60 since it outperforms the GT50 in every picture quality category. The lack of THX mode isn't a big deal to most people since most tend to use Custom mode (that enables the Pro Settings menu) and the ST60 has Pro Settings in both Custom mode and adds it to Cinema mode as well.

Here's a few related threads that may help you decide:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1467809/panny-65st60-v-65gt50

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1464714/panasonic-tc-p50gt50-1200-best-buy-good-buy

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TC-P55ST60, TC-P50GT50, TC-P46G10, TH-42PZ700U, TH-42PX50U, HP LC2600N, TiVo Series3, TWC Cisco 8742HDC DVR, Onkyo TX-SR333, URC R40 Remote.
Pic of My A/V setup - http://cdn.avsforum.com/f/f1/900x900..._Img_4867.jpeg
Gallery - http://www.avsforum.com/g/a/2082686/randywalter...
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Old 04-14-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by wirelessroute View Post

I am in search for a 65 inch HD 3D TV. I currently have Panasonic 50 inch from 5 years ago that's still running no issues. I been teetering between active and passive 3d and been reading that Panasonic's plasma line is still great.
The answer I can't find is if I should look for deals on GT50 or new ST60. How important is the THX on the GT and what features are different or missing from ST ?

This is what I found on Amazon:

Panasonic VIERA TC-P65GT50 (Glass
Amazon Price: $2,489.99

or

Panasonic TC-P65ST60 6 (Includes 2 Pairs of 3D Active Glasses)
Price: $2,569.98

I wouldn't touch the 2012 models at this point. The 2013 models are superior in picture quality, come with 2 pairs of 3d glasses, better looking aesthetically, and less expensive. Everything I've seen so far is that this years ST60 has equal picture quality to last years flagship VT50. CNET gave it 5 out of 5 stars, which I've never seen before. I've already seen prices of the 65" ST60 at $2199 at numerous online retailers, and I'm guessing that price will continue to drop. I'm sure Amazon will price match, if you are set on Amazon. I would not worry about the lack of THX mode(s) in the ST60. If you look hard enough on the web, you'll find calibrated picture settings that will be equal to or better than THX. The only other "con" of the ST60 is it's only got a single core processor (vs the GT50's dual core), so apps will open/load quicker on the GT50... For most people, that is not a big deal. If you are looking for a TV that will absolutely destroy last years models (with all the bells and whistles), you could always hold out for a 65" VT60. I'm 100% sure those will be had for under $3000 (sale pricing), when available. The VT has THX, dual core, web cam, touch remote, voice control, single sheet of glass design, and (slightly) better picture quality than the ST60.
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:31 AM
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You already got your answer, but I'll chime in for the ST60 also.

The GT50 would have to be marked down at least $500+ to even be considered. (IMO)
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Old 04-14-2013, 10:39 AM
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I'm curious as to the PQ improvements of the ST60 series over the GT50 series. Are the differences being mentioned using measurements of calibrated sets? Or are the differences clearly visible when both sets are placed side by side? I'm staying with my 60GT50 due to the fact that my return timeframe will expire before the 60ST60 will be available. I'm going to have my 60GT50 calibrated by Jeff Meier in June so I'm sure the PQ will be very close to that of the 60ST60. At least it will be to my non-videophile eyes smile.gif.

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Old 04-14-2013, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I'm curious as to the PQ improvements of the ST60 series over the GT50 series. Are the differences being mentioned using measurements of calibrated sets? Or are the differences clearly visible when both sets are placed side by side? I'm staying with my 60GT50 due to the fact that my return timeframe will expire before the 60ST60 will be available. I'm going to have my 60GT50 calibrated by Jeff Meier in June so I'm sure the PQ will be very close to that of the 60ST60. At least it will be to my non-videophile eyes smile.gif.

Bill

This is based on results obtained from calibrators and TV owners. Improved blacks (better than VT50), sharper, better motion handling, but slightly worse input lag. The GT50 is still a great TV, but the ST60 even surpasses last years flag ship VT50.
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Old 04-14-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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How about the 3d Technology has it changed from last years model? As far as apps right now I use my PS3 or Xbox to watch amazon on demand, hulu etc. I guess it saves me a small step to do it from the tv.
What price range would GT50 or VT50 need to drop to for me to make a good choice buying it over the new ST60 ? Sorry for all the questions but Panasonic makes it hard to tell these models apart even using the compare tool on their site confused.gif And why are there multiple models of 3d glasses (I guess they redesigned these also?) Can anyone with a 2012 or 2013 comment on 3d quality compared to Passive LG 3d?

I thought it would also be help to list what I plan to use the tv for
Watch TV and Blu Ray Movies
Watching 3d Movies
Xbox Kinect games for my daughter
Don't have any intentions to play 3d games or gaming on PS3.
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Old 04-14-2013, 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted by wirelessroute View Post

How about the 3d Technology has it changed from last years model? As far as apps right now I use my PS3 or Xbox to watch amazon on demand, hulu etc. I guess it saves me a small step to do it from the tv.
What price range would GT50 or VT50 need to drop to for me to make a good choice buying it over the new ST60 ? Sorry for all the questions but Panasonic makes it hard to tell these models apart even using the compare tool on their site confused.gif And why are there multiple models of 3d glasses (I guess they redesigned these also?) Can anyone with a 2012 or 2013 comment on 3d quality compared to Passive LG 3d?

I thought it would also be help to list what I plan to use the tv for
Watch TV and Blu Ray Movies
Watching 3d Movies
Xbox Kinect games for my daughter
Don't have any intentions to play 3d games or gaming on PS3.

I would say the 3D is equally as good as 2012 models, which were excellent. Personally I wouldn't bother considering the 2012 models at all, but if you can find a great deal the price difference might be worth it to you. For me I would want at least a savings of $300 starting with the 50" and increasing in price for larger sizes. I can't comment on the passive LG 3D other than to say I prefer the higher resolution active offers, some people may find active to be harder on the eyes though.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:14 PM
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The 2013 models are considerably better, but the 2012 models are still very good. Depending on the price difference, the 2012 models shouldn't be ruled out if you have a limited budget IMO.
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:16 PM
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The 2013 models are considerably better, but the 2012 models are still very good. Depending on the price difference, the 2012 models shouldn't be ruled out if you have a limited budget IMO.

Agreed. The only problem with that is there's some great prices on the new models.biggrin.gif
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

I would say the 3D is equally as good as 2012 models, which were excellent. Personally I wouldn't bother considering the 2012 models at all, but if you can find a great deal the price difference might be worth it to you. For me I would want at least a savings of $300 starting with the 50" and increasing in price for larger sizes. I can't comment on the passive LG 3D other than to say I prefer the higher resolution active offers, some people may find active to be harder on the eyes though.

I tried Sharp active 3d at hhgreg yesterday didn't bother me. I am guessing 2012 models 65GT50 sub $2K would be a deal otherwise 2013 65ST60

Is it worth the $900+ difference to go from 60 inch to 65 ? Wowza!


VIERA® 60" Class ST60 Series Full HD Plasma TV (60.1" Diag.)
Model number: TC-P60ST60
Suggested Retail Price: $1,699.99

Dimensions (W x H x D) (w/o stand) 55.0" x 32.4" x 2.0" (General depth: 2.0")
Dimensions (W x H x D) (with stand) 55.0" x 34.6" x 13.2"
Weight (w/o stand) 69.5 lbs.
Weight (with stand) 78.3 lbs.

vs

VIERA® 65" Class ST60 Series Full HD Plasma TV (64.7" Diag.)
Model number: TC-P65ST60
Suggested Retail Price: $2,599.99

Dimensions (W x H x D) (w/o stand) 59.1" x 34.7" x 2.0" (General depth: 2.0")
Dimensions (W x H x D) (with stand) 59.1" x 36.9" x 14.2"
Weight (w/o stand) 35.5 lbs.
Weight (with stand) 40.0 lbs.

4.1 inch more width and 2.3 Inch Height

Wondering if I'd even notice if I got smaller with 60 since I am moving up from 50 inch ?
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Old 04-14-2013, 04:44 PM
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I'm not sure if that price increase is worth it for the 65". Not sure what that's about, but it's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, sub 2K would be really good, but I doubt you will find anything very close to that. Going from 50" to 60" will be a nice upgrade, but how far is your viewing distance?
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Old 04-14-2013, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JSpectre88 View Post

This is based on results obtained from calibrators and TV owners. Improved blacks (better than VT50), sharper, better motion handling, but slightly worse input lag. The GT50 is still a great TV, but the ST60 even surpasses last years flag ship VT50.

I have read the reviews and such. But are the differences something that is clearly visible. Or are the improvements from a measurement standpoint? Any side by side comparisons?

Bill

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Old 04-14-2013, 05:15 PM
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I understand where you are coming from. I am having a similar problem making a decision between a 60" or 65"... And also between the ST60 or VT60, but that's another issue. I am upgrading from a 50", as well. The difference in screen size is a 44% bigger picture with the 50" to 60" jump, and a 69% bigger picture with a 50" to 65" jump. I know what JSpectre is getting at with the viewing distance question, That answer would definitely be an important factor in your screen size decision.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I have read the reviews and such. But are the differences something that is clearly visible. Or are the improvements from a measurement standpoint? Any side by side comparisons?

Bill

That was certainly my impression based on calibrator reviews, but I'm just speculating.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:36 PM - Thread Starter
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about 12-13 feet from center of tv to center of couch.
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Old 04-14-2013, 06:44 PM
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about 12-13 feet from center of tv to center of couch.

That's a bit of space, you could easily (comfortably) go up to 65" from that distance.
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Old 04-15-2013, 02:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Mac View Post

I have read the reviews and such. But are the differences something that is clearly visible. Or are the improvements from a measurement standpoint? Any side by side comparisons?

Bill
As far as black levels and color, the improvements should be noticeable, but not dramatically different. The ST60 has more extensive picture controls to dial in the color near perfect, comparable to the VT50 in that regard. However, the ST50 after calibration, even with its limited controls is already very good, but not quite on the level of the ST60. In terms of black levels, the ST50 typically measures ~0.002 - 0.0028ftL and D-Nice measured the ST60 at 0.0016ftL. Percentage wise, that's quite a reduction, but visually, the ST60 will only look a little darker. As far as brightness, they are pretty much the same.

There are other aspects to picture performance that can't really be measured. I'm hoping D-Nice can comment on how they compare in terms of processing/scaling/sharpness and if they reduced the dithering.

Plus there are other nice features the ST60 has over the ST50, like 96Hz mode, and having multiple picture modes that offer the full set of picture controls so that you can calibrate two settings for day and night. The screen filter is supposedly slightly better, too.
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Agreed. The only problem with that is there's some great prices on the new models.biggrin.gif
If the new models are priced well, then I would definitely go that way. But if you can get a larger panel or the same size panel considerably cheaper, I wouldn't rule that out either.
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Old 04-15-2013, 07:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I've been reading more and more and starting to worry about image retention and burn in on the newer Panasonic plasmas. I find this strange since I have one that 5 years old and never has a burn in or retention issue. I pause tv and leave it there sometimes for an hour (by accident) no issues
Is this a major issue with the newer models ? (You can see negative reviews on amazon for bot GT50 and ST50, the negative review almost always about IR or burn in) I want to be able to play my Xbox kinect without and issues confused.gif
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Old 04-15-2013, 11:18 AM
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I've been reading more and more and starting to worry about image retention and burn in on the newer Panasonic plasmas. I find this strange since I have one that 5 years old and never has a burn in or retention issue. I pause tv and leave it there sometimes for an hour (by accident) no issues
Is this a major issue with the newer models ? (You can see negative reviews on amazon for bot GT50 and ST50, the negative review almost always about IR or burn in) I want to be able to play my Xbox kinect without and issues confused.gif

I have the ST60 and use it to P90x ( you wouldn't know by looking at me, but that's a different story). There are static images on the videos and I've yet to see them after working out. In my opinion, so far it's excellent at avoiding retention. It's better than my GT30 in that regard.
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Old 04-15-2013, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the ST60 and use it to P90x ( you wouldn't know by looking at me, but that's a different story). There are static images on the videos and I've yet to see them after working out. In my opinion, so far it's excellent at avoiding retention. It's better than my GT30 in that regard.
P90x is definitely hard I started with Power 90 and 10 minute trainer but now just hit the gym. Good to know on the Image retention has improved.
Did you have to follow a burn in procedure for first 100 hours ? What is your thoughts on 3D of ST60 ? (Wish I could find one to demo locally, arggh)
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Old 04-15-2013, 01:06 PM
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P90x is definitely hard I started with Power 90 and 10 minute trainer but now just hit the gym. Good to know on the Image retention has improved.
Did you have to follow a burn in procedure for first 100 hours ? What is your thoughts on 3D of ST60 ? (Wish I could find one to demo locally, arggh)
Not to discredit pos1121's post, but take it for what it's worth. Image retention varies panel to panel. There are MANY 2012 owners that have no IR issues, me included.
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Old 04-18-2013, 12:57 PM
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Not to discredit pos1121's post, but take it for what it's worth. Image retention varies panel to panel. There are MANY 2012 owners that have no IR issues, me included.
Agreed-
Can only speak to my experience ( I figured that was a given)... so no discredit taken. Sounds like a non issue according to rahzel's experience and most others with the 2012's. I had a Samsung E7000 for 2 weeks that didn't buzz, but you'd think every set made had the issue looking on the forums. It was actually less of a buzzer- if that's a word- than my ST60, which isn't very loud at all. So, as rahzel inferred, odds are good that you won't have an issue.

I have not used 3D on it yet, so I can't speak to that.
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