Panasonic GT50 vs ST60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 01:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Just want people's opinion on 2012's GT50 vs 2013's ST60..
If both TV's could be purchased for around the same price, which one would you go for?
Are there any of you who have (had) both sets?
Anyone who has returned the GT50 for the ST60?
Looks like the picture quality on both sets are REALLY similar.
As far as I can see, there are benefits to both/either set.

GT50 "pros"-
Dual core processor
THX mode(s)
Slimmer bezel
Better 3d performance
Lower input lag for gaming
4 HDMI inputs
1 year of proven reliability

ST60 "pros"-
2 pairs of 3D glasses free
Better looking stand
Newer viera interface
Touch pen compatible
Advanced picture settings
Better overall picture quality (?)
"Newest" tech

CNET did give the ST60 a 5 star review, but weighted heavily on "value"...
From what I see, I'm almost thinking that if a person could get a good price on a GT50, that might be the best way to go.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks! smile.gif
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post #2 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 03:39 PM
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Well you aren't going to go "wrong" if you get the GT50. Its a great TV and you can get some phenomenal deals on them now... While they last. I just bought an ST60 for my Florida home and its sitting in my garage until I get there in two weeks to set up, so I don't know if I can comment if the "Better Looking Stand" statement is true or not. Personally, I like the stand on my GT50 in my Long Island home. My guess is that you'd be hard pressed to see a huge difference in picture quality. Both are excellent if I'm not mistaken.

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post #3 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 04:13 PM
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I would remove THX modes and the fact that the GT50 has been on the market for longer as meaningful pluses. The THX modes don't really add much (if anything) over the ST60... they did over the ST50 because it gave you another picture mode to calibrate if you wanted day and night settings. Other than that, it isn't much (if any) more accurate than Cinema or Home Theater mode. And the fact that the GT50 has been out for over a year isn't really meaningful either. If anything, the ST60 might even be more refined because it's somewhat of a refreshed version of the 2012 models (same base panels).

I would go with the ST60 unless input lag, the lower number of HDMI ports and single-core processor concern you, OR if the GT50 is considerably cheaper (edit: which is not the case).
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post #4 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

Just want people's opinion on 2012's GT50 vs 2013's ST60..
If both TV's could be purchased for around the same price, which one would you go for?
Are there any of you who have (had) both sets?
Anyone who has returned the GT50 for the ST60?
Looks like the picture quality on both sets are REALLY similar.
As far as I can see, there are benefits to both/either set.

GT50 "pros"-
Dual core processor
THX mode(s)
Slimmer bezel
Better 3d performance
Lower input lag for gaming
4 HDMI inputs
1 year of proven reliability

ST60 "pros"-
2 pairs of 3D glasses free
Better looking stand
Newer viera interface
Touch pen compatible
Advanced picture settings
Better overall picture quality (?)
"Newest" tech

CNET did give the ST60 a 5 star review, but weighted heavily on "value"...
From what I see, I'm almost thinking that if a person could get a good price on a GT50, that might be the best way to go.
Any opinions would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks! smile.gif

There have already been a lot of comparisons between the ST60 and GT50/ST50, and from a picture quality standpoint it's already pretty clear that the ST60 outperforms the GT50/ST50 in every category. The biggie for me is seeing so many reports that the ST60 is sharper/crisper than the 2012 models which was a big complaint among UT50/ST50/GT50/VT50 owners, and this softness is the only real complaint i have about my GT50. It bothers me every day. This alone is making my consider getting a 50ST60 and moving my 50GT50 to another room.

The THX modes aren't a big deal since virtually all GT50 owners who posted their settings and the calibrators who calibrated the GT50 used Custom mode instead of the THX modes. I used THX a lot for the first month or two but eventually went with Custom mode and a hybrid of settings others posted and it looks better than anything i've come up with using the THX modes.

The ST60's bezel is almost exactly the same size as the GT50 bezel so that should be a non-issue (both by the specs and my own visual comparison at BB/Magnolia). The 50" ST60 is exactly the same width as my 50" GT50 according to the manual, and only 1/4" shorter (which is all at the bottom of the TV).

As for reliability, Panasonics have been very reliable every year so there's no indication that this year would be any different.

The only thing i don't like about the ST60 is the lack of that 4th HDMI input - it's a problem for me and i don't want to use an HDMI splitter (i have a few of em and i really prefer to route my four sources directly to the TV so each one can have it's own specific picture settings which cannot be done with a splitter). I don't want to have two of those sources share one input because one or the other would have less than optimal settings, but if it meant having superior picture quality on my two primary sources 90% of the time i'd probably choose the ST60 over the GT50.

And then there's price - my local BB/MHT has some leftover 50" GT50's and it is priced $100 higher than the 50" ST60 (when i was there 2 days ago). I love my GT50, but if it were to fail under warranty and Panasonic offered to replace it with a GT50 or ST60, i'd probably choose the ST60.

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post #5 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 07:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for their input! I've been eying the ST60 since its announcement. I'm really interested in the 65", but have not pulled the trigger yet. I've been comparing models non stop (2012 models and 2013 models)... I've even considered a 2011 VT30. haha. I do realize there is no such thing as the perfect TV. Seems like the general consensus is to go with the ST60. My only reservation is price. The 65" is priced pretty high. If I was looking for a 60", I definitely would have already gotten the 60" ST60, just based on value alone. When you jump up to the 65" though, things get pretty interesting when comparing prices and models... Especially when they are within a few hundred bucks from each other, and have similar picture quality, but different features. I appreciate all the feedback from everyone. smile.gif It's helping me narrow down my decision.
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post #6 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 10:05 PM
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The ST60 seems to have bad input lag from reports and if you're a gamer then I'd keep that in mind. If you're not a gamer and will only use the tv for watching television or watching movies then the ST60 would be a good choice but if you're a gamer beware.

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post #7 of 57 Old 04-17-2013, 10:17 PM
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I think hardcore gamers will care but not the casual gamer. there are lcd tvs that people game on that are far worse with input lag.
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post #8 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RomanBlade86 View Post

The ST60 seems to have bad input lag from reports and if you're a gamer then I'd keep that in mind. If you're not a gamer and will only use the tv for watching television or watching movies then the ST60 would be a good choice but if you're a gamer beware.
Well, I am a pretty hard core gamer... But, I am a PC gamer. I have a high end gaming rig and play on a 23" dell ultra-sharp IPS monitor (hardly ever on my current plasma). I do plan on buying a PS4 or next gen X-Box when they come out later this year. Therefore, the lag is somewhat of a concern to me. I also am somewhat concerned with the 3D performance on the ST60. I do own about 20 3D blu-rays, and am looking forward to (re)watching them on my newer, BIGGER TV (I currently have a 50"). I am still a couple weeks out from making my purchase though. Any other opinions and input are appreciated. smile.gif
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post #9 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 08:53 AM
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You listed bezel size as a difference. I've seen both up close, and they're fairly similar. The ST50s did have a larger bezel, but the ST60s adopted the smaller bezels from last year's higher end models.

Is there a measurable difference? I'm curious.
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post #10 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Everything I can find on the ST60 states the bezel is over 1 inch thick (still very thin for a plasma, I know). I believe the GT50s is closer to 3/4 of an inch. I could be wrong, and would love to hear if anyone can confirm/deny with actual measurements.
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post #11 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 10:22 AM
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That may be the case. In person, though, you'd be hard pressed to notice any significant difference. From the front, they look nearly the same.

At the same price, unless you're a professional and want the extra calibration features or input lag is a huge issue for you, go for the ST60. If you're willing to wait for the ST60 to ship, I expect you'll see the price come down a bit, lower than most retailers will sell the GT50.
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post #12 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 11:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I do agree that there is not a significant difference at all, but I do give the edge to the GT50 as far as aesthetics are concerned. There is just something about the ST60s black plastic and chrome(plastic) that looks a little "cheap" to me, and higher quality on that of the GT50... I don't really know how to explain it.
As far as waiting, I definitely will not be buying for at least 3 more weeks. In 3-4 weeks, I expect a lot to happen. Stores should finally get ALL 2013 Panasonic models and sizes (well... all, but the ZT60) in stock. Early adopter phase should be just about over, and prices should see some good discounts off MSRP. Not to mention, pretty much all the 2013 model reviews should hit, as well as there will be a new "winner" in the HDTV shootout.
I also expect stores to blow out their final stock of 2012 models.... So, I'm just trying to weigh my options, as well as give other people (who are in the same position as me) some helpful opinions and insight on what to purchase smile.gif
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post #13 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 12:33 PM
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I understand. However, I think the bottom line is that unless you can get a retailer to drop significantly below the price of the ST60 (which seems unlikely since the ST60 itself is already being marked down from MSRP at some retailers), the ST60 is just a better display for a lower price. Unless there happens to be a GT50 feature you must have, that is.

That said, it shouldn't hurt to wait - presumably more competitive prices on the ST60 and if you're lucky, a retailer who still has a new GT50 and will move on the price. Most are actually marking it up, not down, at this point.
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post #14 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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^^^ I agree with you 100%
Only way I would bite on the GT50, is if I got a killer deal. That is not looking likely, unless I took the risk on a floor model... or if retailers pulled their heads out and started discounting these to get rid of them. Cost on the 2012 TVs must have been WAY more than the 2013 models (judging by their pricing). I'm actually really bummed that they don't have a "GT" model this year (in the US). I totally understand why they don't, though. I think that would have been the model that would fit my needs the most.

So, I'm honestly back to where I started with all of this, and I think I'm going to go for the VT60. Probably the 65". I figure if I'm gonna spend $2200+ on a TV, I might as well get the best TV I can get. Gonna have it for a few years, after all. The 65" VT60 is only 35% more than the 65" ST60. At least at the price ($3000 "or less") I was quoted from my local dealer.
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post #15 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 03:39 PM
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Personally I think the GT50 looks way better and the THX mode is well worth it. Especially if you aren't the type that wants to spend extra money to have your tv calibrated.
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post #16 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlb32 View Post

Personally I think the GT50 looks way better and the THX mode is well worth it. Especially if you aren't the type that wants to spend extra money to have your tv calibrated.

In what ways do you think the GT50 looks way better than the ST60?? I don't recall seeing anyone else post this about the ST60.

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post #17 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

Seems like the general consensus is to go with the ST60. My only reservation is price. The 65" is priced pretty high. If I was looking for a 60", I definitely would have already gotten the 60" ST60, just based on value alone. When you jump up to the 65" though, things get pretty interesting when comparing prices and models.

If you can control the light in the room I would consider the 65S60. It's going for around $1400, or the 65S64 which is the Costco/Sams model and has a filter.
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post #18 of 57 Old 04-18-2013, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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If you can control the light in the room I would consider the 65S60. It's going for around $1400, or the 65S64 which is the Costco/Sams model and has a filter.

I agree the S60 and S64 look like a great TVs (for a great price), but do not fit my personal needs.
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post #19 of 57 Old 04-26-2013, 03:42 PM
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In what ways do you think the GT50 looks way better than the ST60?? I don't recall seeing anyone else post this about the ST60.

Aesthetics wise not picture wise. Picture quality IMO is pretty similar minus the THX mode. I personally think the THX mode is a advantage with the GT50. I know some don't feel the same but I love the THX mode on the Panasonics.
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post #20 of 57 Old 05-05-2013, 05:59 AM
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I went through an identical thought process as you adamhd. I want a 65", but yeah, the price jumps up significantly from 60" to 65".

So I went to best buy and saw the vt60 (step down from st60) right next the gt50, and honestly they both looked close. When me and the best buy employee were looking at fast motion scenes from sky fall, we could barely tell the difference. Only when we we paused it or looked at still images, it became very noticeable.

So if money is not an issue, go with the st60. I went with a warehouse deal on amazon on a 65" gt50 for under $1800.

I'm a gamer as well, so I took input lag as a higher priority over the sharp/crispness of the 2013 plasma models.
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post #21 of 57 Old 05-05-2013, 06:04 AM
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http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B00752VLAY/ref=dp_olp_all_mbc?ie=UTF8&condition=all

Here's the link. The price went up a bit since I got mine.
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post #22 of 57 Old 05-05-2013, 10:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danielbarakat View Post

I went through an identical thought process as you adamhd. I want a 65", but yeah, the price jumps up significantly from 60" to 65".

So I went to best buy and saw the vt60 (step down from st60) right next the gt50, and honestly they both looked close. When me and the best buy employee were looking at fast motion scenes from sky fall, we could barely tell the difference. Only when we we paused it or looked at still images, it became very noticeable.

So if money is not an issue, go with the st60. I went with a warehouse deal on amazon on a 65" gt50 for under $1800.

I'm a gamer as well, so I took input lag as a higher priority over the sharp/crispness of the 2013 plasma models.

The VT60 is the step up from the ST60, I'm sure that 's what you meant unless you meant to say the S60.

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post #23 of 57 Old 05-06-2013, 09:20 PM
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Well the title of the thread is st60 vs.gt50. So I was trying to stay with those. But if money is really no issue, go for the zt60. smile.gif
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post #24 of 57 Old 05-15-2013, 08:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

I do agree that there is not a significant difference at all, but I do give the edge to the GT50 as far as aesthetics are concerned. There is just something about the ST60s black plastic and chrome(plastic) that looks a little "cheap" to me, and higher quality on that of the GT50... I don't really know how to explain it.
As far as waiting, I definitely will not be buying for at least 3 more weeks. In 3-4 weeks, I expect a lot to happen. Stores should finally get ALL 2013 Panasonic models and sizes (well... all, but the ZT60) in stock. Early adopter phase should be just about over, and prices should see some good discounts off MSRP. Not to mention, pretty much all the 2013 model reviews should hit, as well as there will be a new "winner" in the HDTV shootout.
I also expect stores to blow out their final stock of 2012 models.... So, I'm just trying to weigh my options, as well as give other people (who are in the same position as me) some helpful opinions and insight on what to purchase smile.gif

Well it's been 3-4 weeks. Did you make a decision? I would have already got the 60ST60 if not for the input lag. If not for the input lag would you have just settled for a 60" ST60, or were you really dead set on a 65 inch?
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post #25 of 57 Old 05-15-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Well it's been 3-4 weeks. Did you make a decision? I would have already got the 60ST60 if not for the input lag. If not for the input lag would you have just settled for a 60" ST60, or were you really dead set on a 65 inch?
I actually ended up buying the 60" ST60 about 2 1/2 weeks ago. I decided the 65" was not worth the $800 more (than the 60"), and gave up trying to find a good deal on either a GT50 or VT50. I got a killer deal from my local Video Only store who just received them the day I purchased. The store manager actually personally called me that morning to let me know they got them in. I had talked to him over the weeks and left him my number, but was actually surprised they were so "on the ball". Went into the store, and compared it to a 60" VT60 (they were side by side), had the manager set up a blu-ray feed to both TVs... and was immediately sold on the ST60. The VT60 was nice, but definitely not worth $1000 price difference, IMO. So, now 2 1/2 weeks later, I am still extremely happy with my decision. I have only done a small amount of gaming, and although the lag was noticeable on some games I played, it was not a deal breaker for me personally. I do most of my gaming on my PC anyway. The ONLY other negative I can say about the ST60 is that a crappy cable channel feed looks REALLY crappy. Not necessarily the TVs fault, but my Samsung did way better "fixing" the poor cable quality. So, what it comes down to is I'd recommend the ST60 to pretty much anyone but the hardest of hard core console gamer. You really cannot beat the value, ESPECIALLY the 60". Best bang for your buck in years.
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post #26 of 57 Old 06-05-2013, 10:51 AM
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I am trying to decide on a Magnolia floor model (P65GT50) open box item in best buy at 1600$. Would it be worth to take a look at this or look at new 60" ST60's for almost the same price ? The sales guy it had been a floor model in the Magnolia family room setup for around 7 months and on for 4-5 hours a day and it comes with no glasses. I will take that with a grain of salt.

I would love to listen to some inputs on whether this is a good deal ?
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post #27 of 57 Old 06-05-2013, 11:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I am trying to decide on a Magnolia floor model (P65GT50) open box item in best buy at 1600$. Would it be worth to take a look at this or look at new 60" ST60's for almost the same price ? The sales guy it had been a floor model in the Magnolia family room setup for around 7 months and on for 4-5 hours a day and it comes with no glasses. I will take that with a grain of salt.

I would love to listen to some inputs on whether this is a good deal ?

If there is no burn-in on the panel, then I'd buy it. That's a great deal on a great TV. Most people on here will tell you to never buy a floor model TV. I say, as long as you check it for permanent burn in on the panel (bring a usb with some solid color/white slides to check), and there is no physical damage on the tv you are ok. You are still going to get the same warranty as you would with a brand new TV (one year from the manufacturer). You may even get them to lower the price a little more with either standard haggling, or through buying an extended warranty (and suggesting to them to lower the TV price a little to get you to buy the warranty). Glasses are not a huge issue. You can get a pair or two for $20 each. Bottom line, I just would rather have the bigger TV. The PQ between the two is very similar. The aesthetics of the GT50 are nicer (IMO), and you get less input lag (for gaming) with the GT50 as well.

Keep in mind this is all coming from an EXTREMELY happy owner of a 60" ST60, but if I had that deal in front of me at the time I was looking to buy a new TV, I would be a happy owner of a 65" GT50. biggrin.gif
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post #28 of 57 Old 06-05-2013, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by AdamHD View Post

If there is no burn-in on the panel, then I'd buy it. That's a great deal on a great TV. Most people on here will tell you to never buy a floor model TV. I say, as long as you check it for permanent burn in on the panel (bring a usb with some solid color/white slides to check), and there is no physical damage on the tv you are ok. You are still going to get the same warranty as you would with a brand new TV (one year from the manufacturer). You may even get them to lower the price a little more with either standard haggling, or through buying an extended warranty (and suggesting to them to lower the TV price a little to get you to buy the warranty). Glasses are not a huge issue. You can get a pair or two for $20 each. Bottom line, I just would rather have the bigger TV. The PQ between the two is very similar. The aesthetics of the GT50 are nicer (IMO), and you get less input lag (for gaming) with the GT50 as well.

Keep in mind this is all coming from an EXTREMELY happy owner of a 60" ST60, but if I had that deal in front of me at the time I was looking to buy a new TV, I would be a happy owner of a 65" GT50. biggrin.gif
The St60 will have the better picture and not as soft on cable TV. You have to choose size over pq although the GT50 is no slouch.

As far as floor models. I would not even take that into consideration. If the TV was bad it would have shown already so it must be running good. Only thing to look for is IR or burn in. If you see IR, I would haggle for a better price and pickup the BB extended warranty for 2 years that covers burn in. Then you can make sure the IR comes out or at least be covered if it does not.

I had BB swap out my pn60e7000 because of a case like this and IR. I now have a floor model 60es7500 that has no flaws and runs great. Has hours on it and still get another year warranty on it. I prefer to take a floor model then a customer return. You do not know why a TV was returned and how it was handled. If it was just on display you know it wasn't thrown around in someones car, or truck or how it was handled in a home especially after they know it was going back.
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post #29 of 57 Old 06-05-2013, 12:17 PM
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Thanks that helps.smile.gif I will go back in with a USB and work on my haggling skills to get it bumped by a couple of hundred dollars. The sales guy said it has been up for 2 weeks now so hopefully I can get the price down.

I had the slides downloaded from here
http://eaprogramming.com/downloads/files/BreakIn_Images.zip

Do you think that would work ?
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post #30 of 57 Old 06-05-2013, 12:18 PM
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The main thing to look for is IR and BI, bring your favourite Blurays and decide for yourself. If all that's good and you can get a extended warranty you are good to go. Some St60 owners had bad luck with IR, same with some GT50 owners , so go with the one that doesn't have any. Picture quality wise, they are very similar , some can't even tell a difference. If you game heavy though, go for the GT50, has better input lag.

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