Best Buy to replace my Pioneer Kuro 6020fd for....good/even trade? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 04:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the Pioneer Kuro used not too long ago that had Best Buy Black Tie Protection. I've had it for a couple months and did notice bad picture in different settings. It looked like bad video processing so they are going to replace the set. Went there today to see what they would deem comparable. I was concerned they were going to try to give me something that was not in the Magnolia section but I was surprised at what they offered me.

#1 on the list was a Samsung 64f8500
#2 on the list was a Panasonic 60GT50

Didn't read the rest cause I wasn't all that interested in anything below a GT50. I initially wanted to get a credit for the original amount I payed for the Kuro which was $3000 but they said if they give me credit it would be market value of the Pioneer Kuro which was $1100 on their computer. So it was an obvious choice. Get the Samsung 64f8500. I asked about replacing it with a ZT60 but they won't have it for a while and my warranty ends this month.

I'm going to miss my Kuro blacks but have read some pages on the Samsung 64f8500 thread and in general looks to be a great TV. Should I be happy about the replacement?
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post #2 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 04:57 PM
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I would have went for either the VT60 or the F8500, if not have them order me a ZT60 to be given at time of arrival.....You didnt do bad IMO and really your choices were limited.....the F8500 is shaping up to be an excellent set.....
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post #3 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 05:03 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not sure they'll go for the ZT60 but I'll go ahead and ask. I'm surprised they didn't just do a 60F8500 rather than the 64F8500. Not sure what the logic there was. I wonder if they''ll try to stick with me a 60zt60 rather than the 65zt60 because of the price difference. If they let me choose beween a 64F8500 vs 60zt60 would the edge go to 64f8500?

Anyone know what the black level between the Pioneer Kuro 6020 vs Samsung F8500 is numbers wise?
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post #4 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 05:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsimeon View Post

I'm not sure they'll go for the ZT60 but I'll go ahead and ask. I'm surprised they didn't just do a 60F8500 rather than the 64F8500. Not sure what the logic there was. I wonder if they''ll try to stick with me a 60zt60 rather than the 65zt60 because of the price difference. If they let me choose beween a 64F8500 vs 60zt60 would the edge go to 64f8500?

Anyone know what the black level between the Pioneer Kuro 6020 vs Samsung F8500 is numbers wise?


Try to see if they have the VT60.......

As far MLL sure, I know the F8500 doesnt go as low as the Kuro bottom levels, but as for your specific model I'll be of no help....

The ZT60 isnt out yet which is why they may not do it, but it doesnt hurt to ask if you would be willing to wait would they do that for you......
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post #5 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 05:39 PM
 
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His Pioneer should goto 0.001 ftl while the F8500 has shown to go as low as 0.0016, I believe?
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post #6 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 05:43 PM
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On the F8500, it briefly hit .0016, but stayed mostly around .0017. Let's see if the discussed upcoming firmware update changes that at all.

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post #7 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

His Pioneer should goto 0.001 ftl while the F8500 has shown to go as low as 0.0016, I believe?

correct full black screen is .0016 at its lowest measurement so far.......
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post #8 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Soooooo basically I wouldn't see the difference really between black levels?
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post #9 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 06:20 PM
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On a completely black screen, not really. You might notice a slight reduction in overall contrast. The VT60/ZT60 will probably look very similar to your 6020.
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post #10 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 07:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Slight reduction of contrast? If the 8500 is significantly brighter with the whites and the black level is almost like. This particular Kuro wouldn't the contrast of the Samsung be better?
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post #11 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsimeon View Post

Slight reduction of contrast? If the 8500 is significantly brighter with the whites and the black level is almost like. This particular Kuro wouldn't the contrast of the Samsung be better?
The F8500 will definitely be able to get brighter, but it also 'floats' black levels, meaning they get lighter as the picture level increases. Your old 6020 and probably the VT60/ZT60 don't do this... black levels stay the same as the picture level increases.

So yes the F8500 can potentially have a very high on/off contrast ratio because it's capable of getting brighter. But ANSI contrast is a better representation of real content; this is the measured black and white on a 4x4 checkerboard pattern. The 6020 and VT60/ZT60 have a considerably higher ANSI contrast ratio than the F8500.
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post #12 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

The F8500 will definitely be able to get brighter, but it also 'floats' black levels, meaning they get lighter as the picture level increases. Your old 6020 and probably the VT60/ZT60 don't do this... black levels stay the same as the picture level increases.

So yes the F8500 can potentially have a very high on/off contrast ratio because it's capable of getting brighter. But ANSI contrast is a better representation of real content; this is the measured black and white on a 4x4 checkerboard pattern. The 6020 and VT60/ZT60 have a considerably higher ANSI contrast ratio than the F8500.

This is correct, supposedly samsung has a firmware fix coming that may take care of some of these issues however, but only time will tell. I would never buy a set on future promises however which is why I recommended the Vt60.

As it stands I would try for the ZT60 as that will msot likely represent the closest to what you are used to while improving in other areas.
Ifthats not possible than it would be betweeen the F8500 and the VT60 and then its down to what you want out of the set and what you prefer when you see them.
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post #13 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 08:03 PM
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f8500 is a great set, but you will notice the difference in black levels. I would get a high end 2013 panasonic if you can. They should have the VTs in stock, or about to have them in stock.
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post #14 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 08:56 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm leaning towards the 8500 because of the brightness. My room is fairly bright and the Kuro looked totally washed out in it during the day. I might be ok with the trade off of .0006 for a bright LCD like set. Yes I mostly do night viewing but I like watching during the day on weekends and accepted the fact that the Kuro wasn't going to look great during the day with all the light. If I could get great picture all day long and sacrifice .0006 in black levels then I feel like ill be in good shape. Also 4" more in picture size is an upgrade itself. I'm sure ill be happy with any of those. Maybe I'll be able to take it back if I'm not happy and look at the vt/zt.

Forgot to add...which panel has the least reflections?
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post #15 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 11:32 PM
 
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Just guesstimating, but with the ZT60 you'll probably get a brighter set (but not as bright as the 8500) AND only a reduction of ~0.003 in black levels (albeit it a higher cost). wink.gif
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post #16 of 44 Old 04-17-2013, 11:38 PM
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Just make sure you check out the F8500 in person and see if you like it. It has a nice POP to it IMO that you either see and really like, or others really don't and think "meh".

VT60's look really nice too. If it were me, I'd lobby hard for a ZT60 replacement, but I'm just dreaming I could even afford that thing lol.

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post #17 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 06:46 AM
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F8500 is a great set as far as I can tell after 5 days of ownership. I think you'd be very pleased with it.
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post #18 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 07:21 AM - Thread Starter
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They just picked up my Pioneer Kuro....it's a sad day. frown.gif

I'll go to Best Buy today and see if they have any Vt60's to showcase. Maybe push them for the Zt60 but I don't know if I want to wait for it.

Also nobody commented on the reflections on these screens. Do the Vt/Zt use glass in front? I had an awesome led tv 47le8500 that had the glass panel and while I loved the set...the reflections were awful.
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post #19 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 09:45 AM
 
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^Not many have seen the VT/ZT yet.
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post #20 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsimeon View Post

They just picked up my Pioneer Kuro....it's a sad day. frown.gif

I'll go to Best Buy today and see if they have any Vt60's to showcase. Maybe push them for the Zt60 but I don't know if I want to wait for it.

Also nobody commented on the reflections on these screens. Do the Vt/Zt use glass in front? I had an awesome led tv 47le8500 that had the glass panel and while I loved the set...the reflections were awful.

yes as with almost any Plasma they use glass "fronts".....The AR Filter is what will seperate the sets......

There are some pictures of the VT in the VT owners thread, but aside from seeing the set in person youll never know what it really looks like in person, pictures often pick up things that youll never see....
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post #21 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 08:54 PM
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If they won't give you a 65VT60 ask for a 65ST60. I would take that over either of the two sets you mentioned earlier. The ST60 is better than the GT50 so it would be an upgrade not a downgrade.
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post #22 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by StinDaWg View Post

If they won't give you a 65VT60 ask for a 65ST60. I would take that over either of the two sets you mentioned earlier. The ST60 is better than the GT50 so it would be an upgrade not a downgrade.

Not sure if I would go for an ST60 since this is a replacement for a Kuro, while the ST60 is a heck of a set I would ge the best that was being offered to me and was of "equal" value....If he were buying this set straight out and had money as a concern then I might agree, but ZT, VT or F8500 would be the only ones I would consider......
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post #23 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 10:28 PM
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OP, you should definently be looking foward to a replacement of any kind. I was more forced to replace my KRP600M after a burglary while no one was home. After i settled with homeowners insurance, i settled on the samsung PN58c8000. I literally picked up the plasma and brought it home and let it sit for a week because i knew what i was going to see would be underwhelming compared to kuro PQ. after alot of moping (being burlgarized and dealing with homeowners insurance is a complete drain) and enough nagging from the wife, i called a buddy over and we got it hung right in the old spot the Kuro was. needless to say i turned it on, changed to a football game and was not alarmed by what i was watching. carrying on into the evening i started to notice that the blacks were not kuro like, but easily second best and well represented. not to mention the samsung was brighter and better motion processing. the motion processing was easily my favorite as i did not realize how bad of a job the Kuro was doing because i was too busy gloating bout black holes and accurate primaries.

The kuro did one thing well. blacks and primaries. Dont get me wrong here, that combination had an effect on content viewing that no one will ever forget, but pretty much everything produced after that to this day has gotten closer and closer to kuro blacks and color reproduction. The overall viewing experience with the samsung was better, dare i say, than the kuro. The picture is clear as day on cable HDTV, colors are great, motion processing is remarkable, and the blacks left no complaints from myself.

Your going to have to face the fact that the Kuro would have eventually passed away at some point. You will just need to get your grieving process over with now instead of later down the road. Sounds like you didnt have it that long anyways and werent happily married to it, just casual dating, so the grieving will be much less severe and a new plasma is the best cure. if you stick to panny or samsung plasmas, you wont be dissapointed.

btw, best buy wouldnt let you reserve a ZT60 with credit?
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post #24 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Just guesstimating, but with the ZT60 you'll probably get a brighter set (but not as bright as the 8500) AND only a reduction of ~0.003 in black levels (albeit it a higher cost). wink.gif

potential plasma buyers really need to take this into consideration when shopping around. no one has ever had the best black levels and the best brightness. its either a severe tradeoff or a happy medium as the technology plateaud in brightness a few years ago.

we could pull out ISF modes for kuro as an exception, but from first hand viewing in the home of ISF modes on the 600M, the whites did not improve but simply glowed and put some strain on the eyes pretty early on. It did hold black levels at higher brightness settings though. but as i said before, the whites did not improve, they simply glowed.
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post #25 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 10:44 PM
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In the event they don't allow you credit to the ZT, I wonder if you can pick up either panel then possibly return or exchange it with in the 30 day policy or 45 if your a silve member. Maybe by then the ZT might be out.
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post #26 of 44 Old 04-18-2013, 11:34 PM
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In the event they don't allow you credit to the ZT, I wonder if you can pick up either panel then possibly return or exchange it with in the 30 day policy or 45 if your a silve member. Maybe by then the ZT might be out.

It would have to be around or exceed 50 days I believe depending on when the set comes into his store.Witht eh ZT not slated to be released until June, with a slow rollout from there, it could be closer to August......I would def try for the ZT if they allow it, but in reality it will be between the VT\F8500 in which case its just user preference.....
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post #27 of 44 Old 04-19-2013, 06:15 AM - Thread Starter
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They wouldn't do a ZT replacement. I just got best buy credit for the amount that was payed for the Kuro which was $3799+tax. I'm going to wait for the shoot out to see what set to get. I'm not in a hurry to get a TV.
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post #28 of 44 Old 04-19-2013, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsimeon View Post

They wouldn't do a ZT replacement. I just got best buy credit for the amount that was payed for the Kuro which was $3799+tax. I'm going to wait for the shoot out to see what set to get. I'm not in a hurry to get a TV.
Damn, you are in pretty good shape right now.
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post #29 of 44 Old 04-19-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsimeon View Post

They wouldn't do a ZT replacement. I just got best buy credit for the amount that was payed for the Kuro which was $3799+tax. I'm going to wait for the shoot out to see what set to get. I'm not in a hurry to get a TV.

You made the right choice.
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post #30 of 44 Old 04-19-2013, 08:46 AM
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That is good amount of pocket change. Your options look better now.
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