Erase Plasma Burn In - A True Story - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 04-20-2013, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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I love my Panasonic VT50 and I love my video games. So I was conflicted and torn when I noticed the Call of Duty HUD burned into my beloved plasma. I can't stop gaming, but I can't give up Panasonic's excellent plasma. So I went to the all-knowing Web to find a solution. While everyone seemd to say that burn-in was a thing of the past, I had the undeniable proof that it was not. Many claimed that running full-screen video for hours would help, so I tried playing The Dark Knight Rises on a loop for about 48 hours. Alas, the burn-in had not even faded.

Another site mentioned that I should try running a continuous loop of digital snow static at max brightness and contrast for four times the amount of time that the burned-in image was displayed. So I went to the Call of Duty "barracks" to see my time played....5 days and 20 hours...140 hours. Meaning 560 hours of continuous playback to remove the burn-in. At this point, I would try anything, so I burned a DVD with the digital snow pattern, from this site:

http://beginwithsoftware.com/videoguides/plasmatv/#.UXL6FMpeuWg

set brightness and contrast to max, and let her rip. I am so very happy to say that about 50 hours later, the burn-in has faded about 75%.

I figure another 10-20 hours and it should be gone - much, much less than the 560 anticipated. So that would mean running the DVD about half the time the image was on the display.

I hope this helps anyone out there with the same problem. Don't despair and don't cry (b/c i did), just do as I did (sans crying) and you'll be fine.

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post #2 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 04:53 AM
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I had a similar issue with an older 46" TH-46PZ80B. I had just fixed it after buying it faulty (it had a loose cable inside the unit) and decided to leave my computer on a slideshow, rotating through about 100 images, to make sure it was working for good, because I wanted to keep it for the new place.

I went to bed, and woke up in the morning to be greeted with a horrible sight: a Windows desktop. The system had crashed (possibly a power cut, as the TV will sometimes restart after a power failure) and, me, liking a lie-in on a Sunday morning, it had been showing that static desktop, with the "Add or Remove Hardware" dialog on it for approximately 11 hours. I popped up a white image and the burn in was clearly visible -- I hoped it was stubborn IR, but it was very stubborn -- it didn't vanish with normal use at all. Eventually, I left the computer on a loop of a full-screen 1080p movie, this time carefully watching it, and after about 20~30 hours total, the image had gone. That was a relief...

One thing I have learned, is comparing this plasma to my friend's much newer Panasonic (GT30 I think) is his gets IR much, much faster than mine -- probably ten times as fast. I'm not sure why this is the case, but it might be the reason IR appears to be more of a problem today than it was in the past.
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post #3 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 06:03 AM
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Great solutions. But you are talking about temporary IR (albeit stubborn), not burn-in.
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post #4 of 12 Old 04-21-2013, 01:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom669 View Post

I had a similar issue with an older 46" TH-46PZ80B. I had just fixed it after buying it faulty (it had a loose cable inside the unit) and decided to leave my computer on a slideshow, rotating through about 100 images, to make sure it was working for good, because I wanted to keep it for the new place.

I went to bed, and woke up in the morning to be greeted with a horrible sight: a Windows desktop. The system had crashed (possibly a power cut, as the TV will sometimes restart after a power failure) and, me, liking a lie-in on a Sunday morning, it had been showing that static desktop, with the "Add or Remove Hardware" dialog on it for approximately 11 hours. I popped up a white image and the burn in was clearly visible -- I hoped it was stubborn IR, but it was very stubborn -- it didn't vanish with normal use at all. Eventually, I left the computer on a loop of a full-screen 1080p movie, this time carefully watching it, and after about 20~30 hours total, the image had gone. That was a relief...

One thing I have learned, is comparing this plasma to my friend's much newer Panasonic (GT30 I think) is his gets IR much, much faster than mine -- probably ten times as fast. I'm not sure why this is the case, but it might be the reason IR appears to be more of a problem today than it was in the past.
Thats why its preferable to run a slideshow of images on the TV itself, using the internal slideshow viewer from a SD card.
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post #5 of 12 Old 12-20-2013, 04:11 PM - Thread Starter
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I don't think there is any such thing as permanent burn-in. In my original post, I thought it would be another 10-20 hours, well, it wasn't. It lloked like the remainder of the burn-in was permanent because it faded no more after that point, so I gave up. It didn't really matter muc because the burnt-in image could only be seen with an all white screen.

But I am delighted to report that now, 8 months later, I noticed that the burn-in is 98% gone. So no matter how badly burnt-in an image is, I think it can be wiped out, it just takes time. For me, it was 8 months of regular use plus the original 50 hours of statis playback.

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post #6 of 12 Old 12-21-2013, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post

Great solutions. But you are talking about temporary IR (albeit stubborn), not burn-in.
I agree it's not Burnin, please people stop calling it that. No wonder when someone hears burn in and plasmas they run for the hills.
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post #7 of 12 Old 12-21-2013, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by vatore View Post

I don't think there is any such thing as permanent burn-in. In my original post, I thought it would be another 10-20 hours, well, it wasn't. It lloked like the remainder of the burn-in was permanent because it faded no more after that point, so I gave up. It didn't really matter muc because the burnt-in image could only be seen with an all white screen.

But I am delighted to report that now, 8 months later, I noticed that the burn-in is 98% gone. So no matter how badly burnt-in an image is, I think it can be wiped out, it just takes time. For me, it was 8 months of regular use plus the original 50 hours of statis playback.
Temporary IR, say it with me,chant it, Temporary IR, really stubborn , son of a bitch temporary IR but still , temporary IR. smile.gif
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post #8 of 12 Old 12-21-2013, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I understand the difference between permanent and temporary, but say this with me "If you take something you believe is permanent burn-in, I bet it will fade eventually. It may take years, but it will fade eventually. Hence, not temporary." That was my point, understand now or shall I simplify further? Any panel that you claim has permanent burn-in, how do you know it's permanent unless you've run it 24/7 forever? You gonna tell me that the image will not eventually fade?

Think about it, if you can, an image burns into the display because the phosphors are used to display the same thing for too long. Well, if you put a negative of the image on the same panel, all the other phosphors would eventually look the same as the burnt-in ones, and the burned image would disappear, hence the burn-in is no more, ceases to exist, in a word, it is "TEMPORARY".

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post #9 of 12 Old 12-21-2013, 09:04 PM
 
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Semantics innit.
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post #10 of 12 Old 12-22-2013, 07:17 AM
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Originally Posted by vatore View Post

I understand the difference between permanent and temporary, but say this with me "If you take something you believe is permanent burn-in, I bet it will fade eventually. It may take years, but it will fade eventually. Hence, not temporary." That was my point, understand now or shall I simplify further? Any panel that you claim has permanent burn-in, how do you know it's permanent unless you've run it 24/7 forever? You gonna tell me that the image will not eventually fade?

Think about it, if you can, an image burns into the display because the phosphors are used to display the same thing for too long. Well, if you put a negative of the image on the same panel, all the other phosphors would eventually look the same as the burnt-in ones, and the burned image would disappear, hence the burn-in is no more, ceases to exist, in a word, it is "TEMPORARY".

Take a piece of velvet, if none on hand use a shirt, now place an iron on it that has been set at highest setting and walk away for a minute, just one full minute- that's burn-in. Burn in is permanent, not temporary. IR is temporary, there is stubborn IR but it is never permanent- permanent is burn-in. The point is stop using the term- "burn in," use the correct term IR. Believe it or not (and I'm betting that you do), just using that term gives people reason to believe it exists and reason to run- permanent or not - the word creates terror and a false understanding of today's plasma.

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post #11 of 12 Old 12-22-2013, 08:37 AM
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First of all, this sounds like what we do with the WOW discs and the pixel flipper. Of course it's a good idea. The only problem with static is if it doesn't do all colors, but instead just black and white.

Secondly, we need to separate our terms a little more appropriately. I think people have defined burn-in as some sputtering of the actual elements in the phosphors (for now, I'll just call them plasma), and it's just "stuck" that way. This is something that doesn't happen on many PDP's anymore. That's why they often say burn-in is pretty nonexistent, and most lean toward IR as what's going on.

The third option that's not often considered is uneven wear, the one that we're using "burn-in" synonymously with. I think this has to be more heavily considered. Uneven wear can potentially be remedied; burn-in cannot. Whereas IR is about a "ghost trail" of what was previously on the screen, uneven wear is all about the aging of pixels and phosphors on your set.

Let's use humans as an example, a six year old versus a one year old. One is a child, the other an infant. Fast forward 70 years, and now they're both seniors (at 76 and 71 years old, respectively). They still may be five years apart like they always were, but their ages are much "closer" to each other than before, by association alone.

Or here's a better example (though it's probably not true). Let's say I asked you to drink a 16 fl. oz. bottle of urine. Of course, you wouldn't do it. Now, let's pretend I presented you with a fact that the average amount of water a human drinks in a year contains approximately 16 fl. oz. of urine content in it. Is that gross to hear? I guess... but we don't care, because we aren't aware of it. Or better yet, that content is so ridiculously minuscule over the course of a calendar year that it's simply irrelevant.

Same thing goes with the TV's. What you perceive as "burn-in" might be prevalent if you've watched 300 hours of baseball, but it's not the 300 hours that matters. It's the percentage of baseball that you've watched versus everything else you've watched. That's why we call it uneven wear. No pixels will ever all have perfect aging. This is true the second you turn on your television set and it runs through a setup program with you. Even if you're on it for five minutes, there are five minutes of pixels that were used differently everywhere. The reason this ends up being moot in the grand scheme of uneven wear is because your pixels have had relatively much more aging than those five minutes you were on that menu.

Same thing goes for letterbox content (watching 2.35:1 movies). Every time that you watch a two hour film, you have aged your phosphors where the image is displayed considerably more than the phosphors that are just firing black (though I guess those technically have aged more in black lol). If you watch 100 letterbox movies on your set over time, that's 200 hours of uneven wear. In your first 1000 hours, that's 20% of all of your viewing. There's a possible chance that will show up as your top and bottom being lighter than your middle. However, compare it to a panel that has run for 10,000 hours. That means it only accounts for 2% of all viewing, so the phosphors are all aged a bit more closely to each other, even though there is still a 200 hour disparity between these parts of the screen.
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post #12 of 12 Old 12-22-2013, 11:24 AM
 
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^Good explanation. My 2000+ hour Kuro went through that phenomenon that you described in the last paragraph (where the middle appeared brighter than the letterbox portion). It actually became quite distracting when watching full-screen low APL content. The only way to avoid it is to watch as much full-screen content as possible. I mostly watched films on my Kuro, and since the vast majority are in the 2.35:1 AR, this was an inevitable result.

Going back to the OP's point and the wrangling over his use of the word "permanent," I think 8 months of IR is long enough to be considered permanent for the vast majority of viewers.
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