F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 2 - AVS Forum
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post #31 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

I don't know what the disconnect is. I owned Kuros for 6-7 years straight. I find the VT50 to be as bright and vibrant and no I don't have anything set to max. It is a very Kuro like image if you keep your eyes off of the black bars.

To each his own. Maybe the 8500 is where you should go BUT don't call the VT dull and lifeless based on looking at it at a BB. Also, the default THX settings are much like the Pure mode on the Kuro (which looked dull to me) until I applied D-Nices settimgs. Maybe you like the look of the Movie mode on the Kuro and that's what you're used to?

Nope, Kuro is in ISF Day mode. Not ridiculously bright, but bright enough for my bedroom.

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post #32 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 09:52 AM
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The ZT60. It's going to be better than the F8500.
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post #33 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:06 AM
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F8500 - Bright room with uncontrollable lighting

ZT60 - Controlled lighting environment for critical viewing

It can't be that easy, right?
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post #34 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Oplasmic View Post

F8500 - Bright room with uncontrollable lighting

ZT60 - Controlled lighting environment for critical viewing

It can't be that easy, right?

There is more to it than that, but since the ZT60 has yet to be released no one knows how it will really perform as a production model......Whiach is why I have been saying if you can wait, then at least wait for the shootout....
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post #35 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:28 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Vinnie c'mon now I ahve seen applciation where blinds would be a few thousand dollars, heck even a few hundred dollars, so yes a luxury....Blinds\drapes dont always fit the room either, so even if you could add them, they would be out of place.
Having lived in TX most of my life (and now the southwest), I just can't envision a house (or a living quarters) without blinds.eek.gif A few hundred is certainly not uncommon, though.
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post #36 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:31 AM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

The ZT60. It's going to be better than the F8500.

whew...thank you, glad that is finally over.
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post #37 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:38 AM
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Having seen both sets, I find the 8500 to be a little more intriguing just based on the brightness and sharpness, but it would be close. I'm guessing after the shootout that people will prefer the look of the 8500 if they're initially drawn to the look of it's image, which is so unique.

However, the ZT is likely to have better measurements regarding blacks and color, but this won't be night and day. They'll probably be much more alike than different, if the initial comparison that VE did with the VT50 is anything to go by.

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post #38 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 10:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

The ZT60. It's going to be better than the F8500.

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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

whew...thank you, glad that is finally over.

smile.gif

Saves me time coming to the forum now -- glad it's all cleared up.
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post #39 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Having lived in TX most of my life (and now the southwest), I just can't envision a house (or a living quarters) without blinds.eek.gif A few hundred is certainly not uncommon, though.


Highrises with floor to ceiling windows, blinds that dont block light well, or are not fit for custom blinds, the list goes on and on and on.........yes I am sure every wife or signifigant other wants thier living room bathed in darkness during the day, just so they can get a more "theater like" setting.......

I just dont get whats so hard trying to think outside of the whats good for me vs whats good for someone else....
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post #40 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 12:18 PM
 
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The living room is nowhere near bathed in darkness in the day due to the sheer number of windows and light leakage. The hard part (to me) is seeing this more subjective focus on AVS. Sorry, I can't help myself, as the analytical in me refuses to understand. smile.gif
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post #41 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The living room is nowhere near bathed in darkness in the day due to the sheer number of windows and light leakage. The hard part (to me) is seeing this more subjective focus on AVS. Sorry, I can't help myself, as the analytical in me refuses to understand. smile.gif

yes I know we've been down this road before.. wink.gif
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post #42 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 12:36 PM
 
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Guess I better put up a mental Do Not Enter, Wrong Way, or Dead End sign for the next time I get the urge. wink.gif
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post #43 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Guess I better put up a mental Do Not Enter, Wrong Way, or Dead End sign for the next time I get the urge. wink.gif

I think everyones opinion is valuable, what tends to happen though is that we leave off where we are coming from when making a recommendation (qualify the reply in other words) that way if someone gets x TV they dont get upset becasue they were told its the best TV ever, but when they get it home it doesnt fit thier environment or they dont like another aspect of the TV......
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post #44 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:02 PM
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TV's have enough brightness. You guys must live in a hut on the bahamas. The F8500 brightness shouldn't be a consideration. How bright do you guys need your displays? Buy an LCD then. If all else fales....buy shades or curtains.

The ZT60 will perform better than the samsung in areas that really matter. Watch. You'll see at the shoout.
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post #45 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:06 PM
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Hands Down: ZT60
Run and buy one (pre-order)...are limited.
If i live in your country i will pre-order one inmediately.

PS: I don't care how other people thinks is just my opinion smile.gif
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post #46 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by agkss View Post

Hands Down: ZT60
Run and buy one (pre-order)...are limited.
If i live in your country i will pre-order one inmediately.

PS: I don't care how other people thinks is just my opinion smile.gif

What will people do if they get one that's defective? OMG there won't be any replacements. No need to cause a bull rush on the ZT. Insider said there will be plenty for the NA market.
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post #47 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:21 PM
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ZT has my vote, I don't get all this talk about the brightness of the panel as well, I have a GT 50 and is damn bright enough! Have no problem watching in daylight and I have 5 windows on the side wall of front of my house. You can't analyze it properly at stores until its in your own home.

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post #48 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

What will people do if they get one that's defective? OMG there won't be any replacements. No need to cause a bull rush on the ZT. Insider said there will be plenty for the NA market.

Autoclave...i really doubt that one set will be defective...but it could happen...Panasonic will answer that and repeat if i live in your country i pre-order one right now.
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post #49 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

TV's have enough brightness. You guys must live in a hut on the bahamas. The F8500 brightness shouldn't be a consideration. How bright do you guys need your displays? Buy an LCD then. If all else fales....buy shades or curtains.

The ZT60 will perform better than the samsung in areas that really matter. Watch. You'll see at the shoout.

Thank you agian for not thinking outside of the "box"......TVs are "bright enough" for YOU maybe, but I thnk there are many that would disagree thus the large LCD market......I guess someone shouldnt look for brightness AND blacks I mean thats a pipe dream right? If its so cut and dry then why make a bright Plasma? I mean theres no point right? we should just keep everything at ~32ftL and keep plasma for those who can make their room dark, 32FtL is plenty of brightness if you dont like it buy an LCD or outfit your room with curtains and blinds to make it acceptable, otherwise you are doing it wrong......

I am in no way saying Panasonics and or Pioneers are not bright, thats not my point.......Bright enough for you may not be bright enough for someone else....Until you put yourself in someone elses shoes, its near impossible to say that "all Plasma are bright enough as they are"......

As far as performing in those areas that "matter" sighhhhh circles and circles....
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post #50 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 01:30 PM
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I've seen both and they are almost identical with a nod for the sharpness of the 8500.
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post #51 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 03:26 PM
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Well according to panasonic Canada they will be selling the zt60 for about $1000 or more than the same size f8500, and about 800 more than the vt60 in the same size. One would expect a significant noticeable improvement in picture quality, doubt that will be the case, but still curious to see if and how much better it will be than the Samsung. If the differences are marginal, that will be very disappointing considering the price difference.
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post #52 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Thank you agian for not thinking outside of the "box"......TVs are "bright enough" for YOU maybe, but I thnk there are many that would disagree thus the large LCD market......I guess someone shouldnt look for brightness AND blacks I mean thats a pipe dream right? If its so cut and dry then why make a bright Plasma? I mean theres no point right? we should just keep everything at ~32ftL and keep plasma for those who can make their room dark, 32FtL is plenty of brightness if you dont like it buy an LCD or outfit your room with curtains and blinds to make it acceptable, otherwise you are doing it wrong......

I am in no way saying Panasonics and or Pioneers are not bright, thats not my point.......Bright enough for you may not be bright enough for someone else....Until you put yourself in someone elses shoes, its near impossible to say that "all Plasma are bright enough as they are"......

As far as performing in those areas that "matter" sighhhhh circles and circles....

+1

To further add to this, consumer tastes have changed with the times. I remember when my in laws used to come over before we watched a movie, we turned the lights off or set them low. Now when they are over and it's movie time we keep the lights a little brighter......why.....because everyone is on their phones, Ipads or laptops.....maybe even posting on the forum. No one just watches a movie any more, this is a changing society. People want a TV that they can watch in not only the day, but at night with the lights on.....hence LED's.

I think for a lot of enthusiasts like myself who like plasmas, would like them to be bright enough when their wives open the blinds, yet still have great blacks and off angle viewing. I would also like for more than one brand to subscribe (Samsung) to that philosophy too.

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post #53 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Ilovetightbass View Post

I've seen both and they are almost identical with a nod for the sharpness of the 8500.

You havent seen a production zt 60

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post #54 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 04:00 PM
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Went to Best Buy (Magnolia) today and they had the 8500 and the VT60 side by side. Only thing in favor of the 8500 , IMHO, was the brightness and the whites. The VT60 wins hands down on everything else. I am very surprised with the comments in favor of the Sansung, perhaps because I saw both sets with out of the box settings. Honestly, I didn't like the Samsung very much , the reds were pinkish and the shadow detail was no contest against the Panny. I found the black level very similar, though.
Unless you watch TV on a bright room, I can't even see a reason to consider the 8500.
Magnolia guys confirmed the ZT for mid June.
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post #55 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 04:11 PM
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I think we've developed two populations of TV watchers: the reflective and the glow-bugs. Some of us like the look of objects shown in reflective light, like most objects in nature, but others have come to expect things to glow, like neon signs. For the glow-bugs, the best TV is the one that makes things glow the most. For the reflective, though, glow is generally a bad thing.
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post #56 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 04:15 PM
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Went to Best Buy (Magnolia) today and they had the 8500 and the VT60 side by side. Only thing in favor of the 8500 , IMHO, was the brightness and the whites. The VT60 wins hands down on everything else. I am very surprised with the comments in favor of the Sansung, perhaps because I saw both sets with out of the box settings. Honestly, I didn't like the Samsung very much , the reds were pinkish and the shadow detail was no contest against the Panny. I found the black level very similar, though.
Unless you watch TV on a bright room, I can't even see a reason to consider the 8500.
Magnolia guys confirmed the ZT for mid June.

Different strokes for different folks is what it comes down to, Im not surpised at all about teh Samsung comments. Im also not surprised at teh great reviews that the ST60 and the VT60 are getting so far. When it really gets down to it there is a grreat TV for a variety of situations and this year more than ever almsot everyone will be abel to find a TV that will fit their needs.
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post #57 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

TV's have enough brightness. You guys must live in a hut on the bahamas. The F8500 brightness shouldn't be a consideration...
The ZT60 will perform better than the samsung in areas that really matter. Watch. You'll see at the shoout.

I have no plans to purchase an 8500, but that is a ridiculous statement. The 8500 is much brighter and is much less affected by ABL than the VT60 or anything below it (I don't know about the ZT). That will be an asset to anyone who calibrates peak white higher than around 15 - 20 fL, which everyone does. In a completely dark room, I have my plasma calibrated to 36 fL with a 14% white window pattern. An ideal display would have the exact same 36 fL brightness with a completely white screen. But obviously, that is not the case with plasmas. I've seen recent plasmas measured as low as ~9 fL on a full white screen. My own plasma drops to 17 fL. Chad B measured a PN-64F8500 at 23.4 fL -- still far from ideal, but significantly better than the average plasma. Anyone who views an 8500 next to a VT60 in a Magnolia room can plainly see that the 8500 is far less affected by ABL than the VT60 is. To suggest that ABL and brightness are not issues with plasma displays in dark rooms, or anywhere outside of a hut in the Bahamas, is just ridiculous and untrue. The brightness is a major selling point for the 8500, in any environment. And I'm rather confident that the 8500's brightness will be appreciated at the shootout. It was clearly appreciated by Chad B when he stated in his review, "The F8500 will maintain brightness better when showing a bright [hockey] rink than any other plasma I know of... Majestic, with bright scenes oodling pop and excitement like I've never seen on a large plasma... Compared to the VT50... the F8500 is punchier in bright scenes."

I'm probably going to opt for the excellent and much cheaper ST60, but I wish that all plasmas were as bright as the 8500.
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post #58 of 3105 Old 04-23-2013, 09:30 PM
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I think we've developed two populations of TV watchers: the reflective and the glow-bugs. Some of us like the look of objects shown in reflective light, like most objects in nature, but others have come to expect things to glow, like neon signs. For the glow-bugs, the best TV is the one that makes things glow the most. For the reflective, though, glow is generally a bad thing.

Well said
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post #59 of 3105 Old 04-24-2013, 05:20 AM
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Blinds are a luxury? wink.gif I know we're headed to 3rd world but I didn't know just how far we were along. frown.gif

Also, if a TV can't even provide a modicum of an accurate picture (accurate color decoding/reproduction being one of the most noticeable factors here), which can then be adjusted to one's own preference (which, I would argue as someone originally enamored with LCD fanaticism, with little exception, those who don't like an accurate PQ just haven't seen a properly calibrated picture), I just can't understand the draw.

The excitement over the F8500 centers around the ability for the display to achieve superb PQ in both bright and bat cave environments. Let's face it, the VT50 was raved about for its black levels and the F8500 beats that.

Bat cave viewing- check

But the F8500 can also provide a great picture during the day where brightness can't be as easily controlled. The picture can have a pop under these conditions that no other plasma can attain.

Bright room viewing- check. smile.gif
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post #60 of 3105 Old 04-24-2013, 05:21 AM
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Shouldn't a "reference" panel be used to achieve remarkable fidelity to the source? This brightness fixation is over the top. I sure hope we aren't asking when there will ever be a ZT60 killer 3 years from now. That's what will happen if the tail wags the dog.

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