F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 06:38 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Did I say that? Take it up with the reviewer Sir, not me. Never a lack of sarcasm from Vinnie.

It's amazing how you simply can't say anything pro-Samsung without the usual suspects jumping all over it.

Is it possible to simply accept someone's or some reviewers comment without sniping?

Unreal.
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The subjective pro-Samsung remarks diminish the capability of the Panasonic's, which is why this "usual suspect" jumped in.
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post #632 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Okay I concede that point then just dont think it would serve any company to not qc rigidly especially something touted as an exclusive signature line

I agree, but in the real world, QC rarely hits the mark. It's gotten worse with displays across the board and no company is immune.

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post #633 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Did I say that? Take it up with the reviewer Sir, not me. Never a lack of sarcasm from Vinnie.

It's amazing how you simply can't say anything pro-Samsung without the usual suspects jumping all over it.

Is it possible to simply accept someone's or some reviewers comment without sniping?

Unreal.
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The subjective pro-Samsung remarks diminish the capability of the Panasonic's, which is why this "usual suspect" jumped in.

Nobody diminished the capability of the Panasonics. I have no problems with either subjective pro-Samsung remarks or subjective pro-Panasonic remarks. ;-)

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Two great displays... subjectively of course. :-)

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post #634 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 07:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I agree, but in the real world, QC rarely hits the mark. It's gotten worse with displays across the board and no company is immune.

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so very true with everything these days. gone are the days when things were built solid and meant to last....

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post #635 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 07:29 PM
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True point taken lets hope the qc is up to snuff on both sets

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post #636 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

No, it speaks to unknowns in terms of longevity of the process. We also have no idea if displays that should have been rejected, weren't. We won't know that for awhile.

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To be honest, not sure how the bonding process is going to add much value to the ZT from the consumer perspective. Did anyone really have that big of an issue with the double image seen from an 80-90 degree angle???

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post #637 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 10:03 PM
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Cnet review of 8500 is up

" The F8500 deserves a spot in the upper echelon of TVs you can buy, and in a bright room it's the best plasma I've ever seen. In moderate rooms, it doesn't quite match up to the picture quality of the like-priced Panasonic TC-PVT60 series, and while I'd say it's a superior performer to the ST60 by a nose, they both earn the same "9" rating in this section. "
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post #638 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 10:18 PM
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Originally Posted by hotskins View Post

Cnet review of 8500 is up

" The F8500 deserves a spot in the upper echelon of TVs you can buy, and in a bright room it's the best plasma I've ever seen. In moderate rooms, it doesn't quite match up to the picture quality of the like-priced Panasonic TC-PVT60 series, and while I'd say it's a superior performer to the ST60 by a nose, they both earn the same "9" rating in this section. "

Welcome to 2-3 pages ago wink.gif

Just kidding it was posted earlier, but this thread mvoed fast today and it wuickly got off the subject of the review.....
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post #639 of 3105 Old 05-01-2013, 10:46 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

The subjective pro-Samsung remarks diminish the capability of the Panasonic's, which is why this "usual suspect" jumped in.

Now come on. You aren't seriously suggesting that simply making a comment in favor of something in and of itself results in a slagging off of the competing product? That's a little out there, but it probabaly does explain why, rather than discussing the specific merits or features of either set, you more often than not seem to feel the need to act as a counter-balance to anything positive with regards to, not only the F8500, but Samsung in general.

It's hard not to notice this. Lord knows I tried. rolleyes.gif

Frankly I have no reason to dislike either company. I just want to find the best TV for my money and for my needs. Talking to owners and prospective buyers of both brands is a good way to suss this out. Defending the faith or crusading has little value to those just looking for the best product.

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post #640 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 01:59 AM
 
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A good part of determining which product will be the least trouble-prone is by looking at the history of their product lines, reliability, customer service, recalls, etc. I invariably go by my own experience, which has mostly been positive with Panasonic (though not extensive and includes only a Lumix digicam, Technics turntables built like tanks, a portable cassette player/radio in the form of a walkman, and a middle-of-the-road boombox whose tape deck began to malfunction prematurely with its electronic touch buttons). The Samsung experience has been a little less rosy with products (an LCD with poor uniformity and bad caps resulting in a class action and a Blu-ray player for which they ceased providing firmware updates 3 years ago) I've owned due to questionable reliability and poor customer support. That inevitably clouds my perception when the final decision comes down between products from both of these companies. Also, I did acknowledge that Panasonic rising black level phenomenon (either in this thread or another) if you care to check some of my other posts (the only conclusion I can draw is that you skimmed over it).
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post #641 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 02:03 AM
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Originally Posted by endlessender View Post

Now come on. You aren't seriously suggesting that simply making a comment in favor of something in and of itself results in a slagging off of the competing product? That's a little out there, but it probabaly does explain why, rather than discussing the specific merits or features of either set, you more often than not seem to feel the need to act as a counter-balance to anything positive with regards to, not only the F8500, but Samsung in general.

It's hard not to notice this. Lord knows I tried. rolleyes.gif

Frankly I have no reason to dislike either company. I just want to find the best TV for my money and for my needs. Talking to owners and prospective buyers of both brands is a good way to suss this out. Defending the faith or crusading has little value to those just looking for the best product.

+1000
hard to ignore since they overrun other threads of which they vehemently despise but i refuse to get caught up in all the spewing...... its a game i won't play

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post #642 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 02:29 AM
 
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And yet you are perpetuating it with such responses.
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post #643 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 04:01 AM
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A summary of Cnet review for the F8500:

- Outstanding picture quality with a class-leading bright-room image, BUT TV is expensive
- Exceedingly deep black levels, BUT TV is expensive
- Highly accurate colors and superb off-angle and uniformity characteristics, BUT TV is expensive
- It's not quite as good overall as Panasonic's best 2013 efforts, such as the like-priced VT60, BUT F8500 is expensive
- F8500 has a unique stand, BUT wide. The 60 VT60 will not take that much space and F8500 is expensive

How many times does he need to mention that the TV is expensive? very funny biggrin.gif

Oh heck why mince words? he clearly wants to say "Don't buy this TV and get an E-INK Panasonic TV" biggrin.gif
As if we expected any unbiased review from them.
Wait for Apple's TV and you will see how they will ditch Panasonic with out any hesitation. I guess Apple as a sponsor is more generous than Panasonic smile.gif

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post #644 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 04:08 AM
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You can find negatives in just About anything if you look hard enough I guess

It's a very positive review IMO I don't get the criticism of the cnet review honestly

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post #645 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 04:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You can find negatives in just About anything if you look hard enough I guess

It's a very positive review IMO I don't get the criticism of the cnet review honestly

Very true, If you look HARD. But with CNET reviews you don't have to look hard for it. It is very evident.
Positive yes, but biased

I bet they will never mention the price factor when it comes to VT or even ZT. All they will mention in the cons are the generic plasma cons, i.e Using more power etc.

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post #646 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:09 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You can find negatives in just About anything if you look hard enough I guess

It's a very positive review IMO I don't get the criticism of the cnet review honestly

Yes, yes you can. This can be said about any modern electronic as well. You wouldnt even have to look that hard in this forum to show an issue multiple people had on sets from every major company.......

For CNet the only thing that threw me off was "Its expensive", expensive compared to what? how can you say "its espensive, yet not go into that in your review except to say, "its expensive"......This is why though you shuld use reviews as just one of many data points when buying a TV.......
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post #647 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Very true, If you look HARD. But with CNET reviews you don't have to look hard for it. It is very evident.
Positive yes, but biased

I bet they will never mention the price factor when it comes to VT or even ZT. All they will mention in the cons are the generic plasma cons, i.e Using more power etc.

I don't see the bias honestly but we all have different perspectives, I could point you to Panasonic reveiws that mention price btw smile.gif

Can i borrow some movies wink.gif

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post #648 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Yes, yes you can. This can be said about any modern electronic as well. You wouldnt even have to look that hard in this forum to show an issue multiple people had on sets from every major company.......

For CNet the only thing that threw me off was "Its expensive", expensive compared to what? how can you say "its espensive, yet not go into that in your review except to say, "its expensive"......This is why though you shuld use reviews as just one of many data points when buying a TV.......

I think that was in reference to the cost of the ST60 but that's just speculation on my part

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post #649 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I think that was in reference to the cost of the ST60 but that's just speculation on my part

I would "assume" so, but we all knows what happens when we assume wink.gif if that was the case then why not come out and say it? I mean is this a new criteria that we'll see on higher end sets? It was making the statement without anything to back it up that just made me scratch my head.....
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post #650 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Very true, If you look HARD. But with CNET reviews you don't have to look hard for it. It is very evident.
Positive yes, but biased

I bet they will never mention the price factor when it comes to VT or even ZT. All they will mention in the cons are the generic plasma cons, i.e Using more power etc.

And yet he did discuss price in his VT50 review, and he gave it a value score of 6 -- the exact same value score that he gave to the F8500.
Can you remind me which one of you is biased? I forgot.
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post #651 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:23 AM
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And yet he did discuss price in his VT50 review, and he gave it a value score of 6 -- the exact same value score that he gave to the F8500.
Can you remind me which one of you is biased? I forgot.

+1

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post #652 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I would "assume" so, but we all knows what happens when we assume wink.gif if that was the case then why not come out and say it? I mean is this a new criteria that we'll see on higher end sets? It was making the statement without anything to back it up that just made me scratch my head.....

He said that the F8500 was a better performer than the much cheaper ST60 "by a nose," but I guess that comment was too cryptic for you.
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post #653 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

I would "assume" so, but we all knows what happens when we assume wink.gif if that was the case then why not come out and say it? I mean is this a new criteria that we'll see on higher end sets? It was making the statement without anything to back it up that just made me scratch my head.....

I like David's reviews but I rely on Chad's reviews, Dnice's opinions they seem to be spot on, I don't have a horse in this race anyway more than happy with what I have. I just find some of the quotes amusing here "caves" "only good for bright sunlight" etc, we both know the truth is in the middle somewhere. All the Plasma's are quality sets and that is what is important in my mind, we definitely are getting to the point of diminishing returns, Samsung pushed the brightness envelope this year and should be commended for that. None of us want to see Plasma fade away so the improvements are welcomed imo

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I don't see the bias honestly but we all have different perspectives, I could point you to Panasonic reveiws that mention price btw smile.gif

Can i borrow some movies wink.gif

You are more than welcome smile.gif
I have the material to be watched but waiting for the TV to arrive wink.gif

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post #655 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

You are more than welcome smile.gif
I have the material to be watched but waiting for the TV to arrive wink.gif

That's quite the collection smile.gif Can you explain your "e-ink" comment ? Not sure I am following it

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post #656 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:41 AM
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Originally Posted by MechanicalMan View Post

And yet he did discuss price in his VT50 review, and he gave it a value score of 6 -- the exact same value score that he gave to the F8500.
Can you remind me which one of you is biased? I forgot.

Mentioning it once or twice is totally different than mentioning it in every other line smile.gif

Not only this but he even is justifying the cost of the VT by saying "Although expensive, it costs much less than comparable LED and especially forthcoming OLED models."
While he did not say the same about the F8500 even though it is near OLED !! for F8500 he only said "EXTREMELY EXPENSIVE"

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55vt50/4505-6482_7-35118304.html

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post #657 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MechanicalMan View Post

He said that the F8500 was a better performer than the much cheaper ST60 "by a nose," but I guess that comment was too cryptic for you.


Actually, I missed the following part which explains it:

Quote:
The main downside is price. Unlike previous years with models like the awesome PNE6500 -- our third-favorite TV of 2012 considering value -- Samsung decided not to produce a relatively inexpensive yet permium-performing plasma TV in 2013. The F8500 costs a mint, meaning Samsung effectively forfeits the "videophile value" ballgame to the Panasonic ST60.

I usually stick to the performance parts of the reviews.....

As far as your comment goes, that was for "moderate" rooms, of course if you have a bright room its the best plasma hes seen......
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I like David's reviews but I rely on Chad's reviews, Dnice's opinions they seem to be spot on, I don't have a horse in this race anyway more than happy with what I have. I just find some of the quotes amusing here "caves" "only good for bright sunlight" etc, we both know the truth is in the middle somewhere. All the Plasma's are quality sets and that is what is important in my mind, we definitely are getting to the point of diminishing returns, Samsung pushed the brightness envelope this year and should be commended for that. None of us want to see Plasma fade away so the improvements are welcomed imo


Well the calibrators tend to give little opinion and more "numbers" which makes it easier to determine how a set will perform....They usually dont have a dog in the race, so its seeen as more even handed when they do reviews. I persoanly agree with you and tend to enjoy thier reviewsd more as well. I also agree on your last satement, that we are reaching the "crest" point for this tech and the improvements either way will be slight (brightness MLL levels)....

The Panasonics this year have really been great performers, there is no doubt about that., the MLL levels they are reaching are amazing. Samsung decided to focus on bright room viewing, and theres nothing wrong with that. IMO if people are "window shoppers" the brightness will sell the TV more on the showroom floor. The members of this forum though are usually mroe informed than the average buyer and have the tools available to them to make a more inofmred decision based off what is good for them, rather than what just looks good on the showroom floor....
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post #658 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:54 AM
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That's quite the collection smile.gif Can you explain your "e-ink" comment ? Not sure I am following it

This is not intended to degrade the TVs that people own or like here but it is my personal opinion.

What I meant by E-ink is that Panasonic plasmas to me look like the E-Ink reader's screens. Black and White. They have good black levels but very grayish white, something you see on the E-Ink readers like Kindle, Kobo, Nook etc. I mean the colors are completely washed out. Might be good for a very dark room but totally unsuitable for bright room viewing. The colors are not punchy and the picture lacks the pop.
I don't like that. This is the first time I'm even interested in a plasma. And this is because of the F8500. I'm sure many LED consumers like me would be looking forward to it.

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post #659 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

As far as your comment goes, that was for "moderate" rooms, of course if you have a bright room its the best plasma hes seen.......

Yes, I'm perfectly aware of that. Unlike some people around here, I have actually read his reviews and have no trouble understanding them. He feels that the expensive F8500 represents a poor value in comparison to the ST60, just as he felt that the expensive VT50 represented a poor value in comparison to the ST50. It's not surprising.
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post #660 of 3105 Old 05-02-2013, 06:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

This is not intended to degrade the TVs that people own or like here but it is my personal opinion.

What I meant by E-ink is that Panasonic plasmas to me look like the E-Ink reader's screens. Black and White. They have good black levels but very grayish white, something you see on the E-Ink readers like Kindle, Kobo, Nook etc. I mean the colors are completely washed out. Might be good for a very dark room but totally unsuitable for bright room viewing. The colors are not punchy and the picture lacks the pop.
I don't like that. This is the first time I'm even interested in a plasma. And this is because of the F8500. I'm sure many LED consumers like me would be looking forward to it.

Have you ever seen a calibrated Panasonic plasma? my plasma looks nothing like that, granted it is not as bright as the 8500 but it has great pop, color saturation and whites that look white. Granted hockey doesnt look the best but that is minor to me. It actually holds up pretty well in a brighter room. We all have our tastes tho I would suspect what you viewed in a store in not indicative of what a VT or ZT can achieve. But if you like the look of LEDs you are definitely making the right choice

Come on by with some blurays and popcorn and I will convert you smile.gif

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Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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