F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

One of the reasons I am lookign into DIY is that I get to do it at my leisure and will be able to do things multiple times...The percieved cost of time and labor may come into play however.....Im thinking of a D3 with CalMan Basic to start me off, its not the best, but it should start me off on my learning path.......

You could try HCFR which is free and put all the money towards a better sensor, possibly a S/H i1pro?

I started out learning with this combo until I could get a brand new i1pro and Calman!

It's a good idea and very interesting to DIY, especially as you can re-do calibrations when necessary eg. after owning a display for a while will need topping up, new kit, change of décor etc.. pays for itself in the long run.
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post #722 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

Well, just to follow this up, based on a report from the ever reliable D-Nice, the VT30s (2011 models) that he has recalibrated at 2500 hours have almost doubled in black levels. One wonders what this entails for 2012 models as well as this year's, and it's almost enough to get me to cancel my preorder if it weren't for the continued warnings about limited availability (if you're an authorized retailer other than Best Buy, you'll apparently get a very limited supply in late August).

Beyond that I'd be worried about this very finicky calibration issue that seems to be present in the 2013 Panasonics. I don't know if that will carry over to the Z60, but it's presence in the other Panasonics leads to concerns.

Maybe we'll hear from the calibrators at the shootout.
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post #723 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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I just bought F8500 60' on the street for 40% OFF!!! ...very happy so far...super black and bright ...Now waiting on ZT60 in July...I'm out!!!
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post #724 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 12:55 PM
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Originally Posted by -Hitman- View Post

You could try HCFR which is free and put all the money towards a better sensor, possibly a S/H i1pro?

I started out learning with this combo until I could get a brand new i1pro and Calman!

It's a good idea and very interesting to DIY, especially as you can re-do calibrations when necessary eg. after owning a display for a while will need topping up, new kit, change of décor etc.. pays for itself in the long run.

I may get a used i1pro in the future, but for now I think a new OEM D3 would suit my needs better.Believe me Ive gone through and thought about a used i1pro a few times.
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post #725 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by BizMarkie View Post


I just bought F8500 60' on the street for 40% OFF!!! ...very happy so far...super black and bright ...Now waiting on ZT60 in July...I'm out!!!

Well then, cant argue on that one, guess it pays to have those street connects wink.gif
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post #726 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by BizMarkie View Post



I just bought F8500 60' on the street for 40% OFF!!! ...very happy so far...super black and bright ...Now waiting on ZT60 in July...I'm out!!!

let me know on the black market of an 65zt60....

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post #727 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by BizMarkie View Post



I just bought F8500 60' on the street for 40% OFF!!! ...very happy so far...super black and bright ...Now waiting on ZT60 in July...I'm out!!!

Were they in a white van? If so, I'm surprised you didn't pick up some nice speakers too. wink.gif

Not a fan of black market buys myself.

Is that a picture of the home the Samsung used to be hung in? eek.gif
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post #728 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by BizMarkie View Post



I just bought F8500 60' on the street for 40% OFF!!! ...very happy so far...super black and bright ...Now waiting on ZT60 in July...I'm out!!!

that actually looks much better on the wall than I thought it would. all the stores have them sitting on the stand, and due to the curve I was expecting it to look like it was really far off the wall when mounted. actually yours looks great.

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post #729 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

that actually looks much better on the wall than I thought it would. all the stores have them sitting on the stand, and due to the curve I was expecting it to look like it was really far off the wall when mounted. actually yours looks great.

The set isnt curved just the stand smile.gif the "one piece" design may make it look like its part of the TV though....
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post #730 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The set isnt curved just the stand smile.gif the "one piece" design may make it look like its part of the TV though....

the back is. it's thicker in the middle than on the edges. that's what I meant. if the back is mounted flush against the wall, there would still be a half inch-full inch space between the wall and the back of the TV's edges. maybe i'm remembering it being more pronounced than it really is. I didn't pay that much attention since mine won't be wall mounted, was just a passing thought I had when looking over it at the store.

funny you mention the stand though, cause even the pics of the tv mounted from CES or whatever has the stand attached. now that looks out of place on the wall, haha. I guess the 51inch is designed for in the bathroom, complete with towel rack?

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post #731 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

the back is. it's thicker in the middle than on the edges. that's what I meant. if the back is mounted flush against the wall, there would still be a half inch-full inch space between the wall and the back of the TV's edges. maybe i'm remembering it being more pronounced than it really is. I didn't pay that much attention since mine won't be wall mounted, was just a passing thought I had when looking over it at the store.

funny you mention the stand though, cause even the pics of the tv mounted from CES or whatever has the stand attached. now that looks out of place on the wall, haha. I guess the 51inch is designed for in the bathroom, complete with towel rack?

Ahhh ok you're right, the "curve" was so small I didnt even notice it when I looked at the back of the TV......Not sure if I would mount a plasma flush against the wall due to heat concerns wink.gif Id want a litle space inbetween..
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post #732 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

One of the reasons I am lookign into DIY is that I get to do it at my leisure and will be able to do things multiple times...The percieved cost of time and labor may come into play however.....Im thinking of a D3 with CalMan Basic to start me off, its not the best, but it should start me off on my learning path.......

I think the i1Display Pro or CM Display would be a good investment. I doubt many people around here who have purchased one of those meters are disappointed with the purchase. I'm really surprised that more people (who maybe aren't sure if they want to drop $150 - $350+) don't just buy a used DTP-94 and use it to start familiarizing themselves with HFCR and dispcalGUI. It is a fairly accurate meter, and while I haven't spent a lot of time comparing them, I know that mine gives similar measurements to my ColorMunki Display. I didn't bother selling my DTP-94 when I bought my ColorMunki because they have virtually no resale value anymore. Someone could probably buy one on eBay these days for like $10 or $15. And even if someone decided to pay to have their primary TV professionally calibrated, a cheap and reasonably accurate meter is great to have for profiling computer monitors and whatnot. I bought my first meter ~3 years ago, and now I can't imagine not owning one. It's seriously a must-have item, IMO.
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post #733 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 05:09 PM
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MechanicalMan,

I agree. I bought my first meter over six years ago -- an i1 D2 colorimeter. It still works fine when profiled to my i1 Pro Rev D spectro. The problem that I am running into is the colorimeter is good only down to 0.0045 ftL (verified in my home with a Konica Minolta LS-100.) Looks like there is an i1 D3 (i1 Display Pro) sometime in my near future. smile.gif

Oh, yes. Back on topic, I have been going back and forth between the ST60 and the F8500 and right now I'm leaning toward the Panasonic. I've had 7 plasmas -- both Samsung and Panasonics -- so I have no prejudice. I have the 64D700 in the living room and 2009 Panasonics in the master and guest bedrooms.

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post #734 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Ahhh ok you're right, the "curve" was so small I didnt even notice it when I looked at the back of the TV......Not sure if I would mount a plasma flush against the wall due to heat concerns wink.gif Id want a litle space inbetween..

good point. I've never wall mounted anything, didn't even think about that. I don't like the look of the tv hanging 5inches off the wall, I actually prefer the look on a stand, usually. I've seen some thin models done nicely, and when it looks 'picture frame-like' I find that very sleek and attractive. I must have overthought the curve on the back, I can see from the pics it's not at all what I was imagining. I guess the other way to do is to recess the whole wall(or I guess rather build out a 2" 'frame' around the tv) so the tv looks flush while still allowing amply breathing room. one day, one day i'll build a room specifically for the theatre instead of trying to place all the gear within the existing space

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post #735 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

good point. I've never wall mounted anything, didn't even think about that. I don't like the look of the tv hanging 5inches off the wall, I actually prefer the look on a stand, usually. I've seen some thin models done nicely, and when it looks 'picture frame-like' I find that very sleek and attractive. I must have overthought the curve on the back, I can see from the pics it's not at all what I was imagining. I guess the other way to do is to recess the whole wall(or I guess rather build out a 2" 'frame' around the tv) so the tv looks flush while still allowing amply breathing room. one day, one day i'll build a room specifically for the theatre instead of trying to place all the gear within the existing space

I don't think so, at least not in my case. bottom of my 8500 is about 30". unless your talking top of display to the floor. center of the screen is eye level on my couch.

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post #736 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 07:37 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

I don't think so, at least not in my case. bottom of my 8500 is about 30". unless your talking top of display to the floor. center of the screen is eye level on my couch.

i think he said 5" between tv and wall... wink.gif

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post #737 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 09:24 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

I don't think so, at least not in my case. bottom of my 8500 is about 30". unless your talking top of display to the floor. center of the screen is eye level on my couch.

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i think he said 5" between tv and wall... wink.gif

yup. I like the way the pic above looks. I was just saying i'm not a fan of the bulky mounts, that push the tv so far off the wall.

like this:



I guess this is as close to 'wall mounting' a tv as I've come(in the bathroom)

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post #738 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 09:31 PM
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Which low profile wall mount would you recommend for the ZT60?

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post #739 of 3105 Old 05-03-2013, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post


yup. I like the way the pic above looks. I was just saying i'm not a fan of the bulky mounts, that push the tv so far off the wall.
I guess this is as close to 'wall mounting' a tv as I've come(in the bathroom)

nicely done! yeah i would be concerned about the heat of a large tv doing it that way....

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post #740 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 01:31 AM
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Well, just to follow this up, based on a report from the ever reliable D-Nice, the VT30s (2011 models) that he has recalibrated at 2500 hours have almost doubled in black levels. One wonders what this entails for 2012 models as well as this year's, and it's almost enough to get me to cancel my preorder if it weren't for the continued warnings about limited availability (if you're an authorized retailer other than Best Buy, you'll apparently get a very limited supply in late August).

To add to ths there's been multiple reports that the 2012 vt50s increased in brightness after the 1700 hr mark or thereabouts. I can't wait to get there on mine. Very pleased with the quality of the vt50 and the fact that they made real fixes that were noticeable with only a small handful of fw updates. .
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post #741 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 05:13 AM
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To add to ths there's been multiple reports that the 2012 vt50s increased in brightness after the 1700 hr mark or thereabouts. I can't wait to get there on mine. Very pleased with the quality of the vt50 and the fact that they made real fixes that were noticeable with only a small handful of fw updates. .

What do you mean that the brightness increases at 1700 hrs? Black level gets worst like the vt30? Haven't heard this about the Vt50 and thought it was now a non issue.
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post #742 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 05:51 AM
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What do you mean that the brightness increases at 1700 hrs? Black level gets worst like the vt30? Haven't heard this about the Vt50 and thought it was now a non issue.

2000+ hrs on mine, no such issues here.

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post #743 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 06:06 AM
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Me too. But I'd like to see these reports if they exist
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post #744 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 06:20 AM
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What do you mean that the brightness increases at 1700 hrs? Black level gets worst like the vt30? Haven't heard this about the Vt50 and thought it was now a non issue.

I think he means true brightness as in light output not blacks

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post #745 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 09:04 AM
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I thought the rising black level issue wasn't present in the 2012 models and had been fixed? I'm not sure if we're talking about rising black levels or some increase in brightness as the set ages. Not sure why that would happen.
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post #746 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 09:58 AM
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I think he means true brightness as in light output not blacks

Exactly, actual brightness. Eg f8500 is not considered brighter because its black levels are higher than all its competitors but because of light output. Feel free to see owners thread for real world observations from actual owners.
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post #747 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 10:59 AM
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nicely done! yeah i would be concerned about the heat of a large tv doing it that way....

haha yeah, that's about the only application i think LED's are good for tongue.gif

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post #748 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

MechanicalMan,

I agree. I bought my first meter over six years ago -- an i1 D2 colorimeter. It still works fine when profiled to my i1 Pro Rev D spectro. The problem that I am running into is the colorimeter is good only down to 0.0045 ftL (verified in my home with a Konica Minolta LS-100.) Looks like there is an i1 D3 (i1 Display Pro) sometime in my near future. smile.gif

Oh, yes. Back on topic, I have been going back and forth between the ST60 and the F8500 and right now I'm leaning toward the Panasonic. I've had 7 plasmas -- both Samsung and Panasonics -- so I have no prejudice. I have the 64D700 in the living room and 2009 Panasonics in the master and guest bedrooms.

Larry

Have you seen the ST60 next to a F5500? I was just wondering if you had the chance to compare them from strictly on picture quality perspective. I have a good friend who is extremely happy with the picture on the F5500, so if you are looking to saving some money, I wouldn't write off that set before seeing it in person. You may be surprised to find that you may actually prefer it to the ST60. I believe it also has a much better 3D picture and more functional smart features, but it's 2D picture is what may surprise you.
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post #749 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 09:02 PM
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Jack,

I've seen both sets but not near each other. In fact, they were in different stores. But that doesn't matter since I find it impossible to judge fully a picture displayed in a store. I go mostly by the calibration reports of those that I am familiar with.

The F5500 that I saw was a 60 inch unit and the black level wasn't impressive. Yes, I did adjust the controls to where the Samsungs look best. The ST60 also was a 60 inch and its black level looked good even in a brick/mortar environment. The picture appeared nice but beyond that, I couldn't see anything more to comment about.

Cost isn't much of a factor. My current 64D7000 still looks good (except for a slightly annoying screen uniformity issue) so I'll probably wait a while until I can see the Panasonic 65ZT and 65VT models -- although I can't imagine that the ZT will be worth over $4000 delivered. (I have no interest in 3D or any of the 'smart' features. Beyond looking to see what they are like, I have never used any of that stuff on my D7000.)

I guess that I would have been a dissenting vote in the focus groups that convinced Samsung to make a model, the F8500, so bright that it can burn a hole in the wall opposite the display. smile.gif I've worked on enough D and E series models to know the calibration problems that occur when the contrast is reduced and, for that reason, I'm leaning toward the ST this year. Although, the VT... ??

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post #750 of 3105 Old 05-04-2013, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by LarryInRI View Post

Jack,

I've seen both sets but not near each other. In fact, they were in different stores. But that doesn't matter since I find it impossible to judge fully a picture displayed in a store. I go mostly by the calibration reports of those that I am familiar with.

The F5500 that I saw was a 60 inch unit and the black level wasn't impressive. Yes, I did adjust the controls to where the Samsungs look best. The ST60 also was a 60 inch and its black level looked good even in a brick/mortar environment. The picture appeared nice but beyond that, I couldn't see anything more to comment about.

Cost isn't much of a factor. My current 64D7000 still looks good (except for a slightly annoying screen uniformity issue) so I'll probably wait a while until I can see the Panasonic 65ZT and 65VT models -- although I can't imagine that the ZT will be worth over $4000 delivered. (I have no interest in 3D or any of the 'smart' features. Beyond looking to see what they are like, I have never used any of that stuff on my D7000.)

I guess that I would have been a dissenting vote in the focus groups that convinced Samsung to make a model, the F8500, so bright that it can burn a hole in the wall opposite the display. smile.gif I've worked on enough D and E series models to know the calibration problems that occur when the contrast is reduced and, for that reason, I'm leaning toward the ST this year. Although, the VT... ??

Larry

Well since you are familliar with Calibrating the only drawback that I can see is the grayscale issues that Chad and DNice brought up. Youll probably be able to work through them more quickly however (then just the average DIY calibrator).....The ST and Vt look to be great sets though and I dont think you can really go wrong for either...
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