F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 49 - AVS Forum

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Bond 007's Avatar Bond 007
09:45 PM Liked: 920
post #1441 of 3156
05-29-2013 | Posts: 12,670
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

I had both displays in the comfort of my home playing the same bluray. How can you say the colors looked so much better on one screen than the other? It's a useless opinion. So is the black level comment without knowing all the settings of both sets.
That standard would make many of the opinions here useless. Including the ones that the f8500 looks better.
coresare's Avatar coresare
10:53 PM Liked: 20
post #1442 of 3156
05-29-2013 | Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

That standard would make many of the opinions here useless. Including the ones that the f8500 looks better.
Not quite sure what you mean. smile.gif when I was playing the same bluray on the zt and f8500 at the same time right next to each other I didn't try to judge one or the other as having better color....obviously calibration and picture control settings would play a huge factor.

I just find it funny someone would come and straight up say he saw them at best buy next to each other and X had better colors than Y..

Set A is better than B because at the store the speakers sounded louder...
CSIG1001's Avatar CSIG1001
11:11 PM Liked: 23
post #1443 of 3156
05-29-2013 | Posts: 763
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vt60 is better set plus one rofl
coresare's Avatar coresare
11:14 PM Liked: 20
post #1444 of 3156
05-29-2013 | Posts: 298
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Lol
Slickman's Avatar Slickman
11:54 PM Liked: 33
post #1445 of 3156
05-29-2013 | Posts: 1,255
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*Looks at shootout audience results* smile.gif
chunon's Avatar chunon
05:33 AM Liked: 565
post #1446 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

Not quite sure what you mean. smile.gif when I was playing the same bluray on the zt and f8500 at the same time right next to each other I didn't try to judge one or the other as having better color....obviously calibration and picture control settings would play a huge factor.

I just find it funny someone would come and straight up say he saw them at best buy next to each other and X had better colors than Y..

Set A is better than B because at the store the speakers sounded louder...

Not sure why an opinion that varies from yours is considered "useless" he prefers the ZT you prefer the 8500 why not just leave it at that, plus his characterization is rather tame compared to some of the over the top totally ridiculous comments made on the side of the 8500, and does it really matter what the setting were as far as the blacks ? That is one area that the ZT is clearly superior in
coresare's Avatar coresare
08:16 AM Liked: 20
post #1447 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 298
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Not sure why an opinion that varies from yours is considered "useless" he prefers the ZT you prefer the 8500 why not just leave it at that, plus his characterization is rather tame compared to some of the over the top totally ridiculous comments made on the side of the 8500, and does it really matter what the setting were as far as the blacks ? That is one area that the ZT is clearly superior in
I didnt say I liked the F8500 more. The black level comment is fine, but colors are so easily tweakable that I don't think you can make a simple statement like "the vt is a better tv because at best buy the colors looked better".
stpetematt's Avatar stpetematt
08:51 AM Liked: 10
post #1448 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 140
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Owning a ZT I would never give up these blacks. Not for any other TV. That coupled with excellent reflection reduction makes it a phenomenal television.
chunon's Avatar chunon
08:51 AM Liked: 565
post #1449 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

I didnt say I liked the F8500 more. The black level comment is fine, but colors are so easily tweakable that I don't think you can make a simple statement like "the vt is a better tv because at best buy the colors looked better".

Even out of the box it is possible they looked more saturated to him, didn't you return a zt for a 8500 due to lack of sharpness on the ZT ? If I have you confused with someone else my apologies
stpetematt's Avatar stpetematt
09:09 AM Liked: 10
post #1450 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 140
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Lack of sharpness? I am watching Zodiac on Blu Ray and almost the entire movie is picture window effect. It's almost 3D in 2D.
chunon's Avatar chunon
09:19 AM Liked: 565
post #1451 of 3156
05-30-2013 | Posts: 5,390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stpetematt View Post

Lack of sharpness? I am watching Zodiac on Blu Ray and almost the entire movie is picture window effect. It's almost 3D in 2D.

Same thing on my Vt50 I have heard the sharpness complaints on Pannys for year but I have never found them lacking at all
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
12:24 PM Liked: 1889
post #1452 of 3156
05-31-2013 | Posts: 25,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coresare View Post

I had both displays in the comfort of my home playing the same bluray. How can you say the colors looked so much better on one screen than the other? It's a useless opinion. So is the black level comment without knowing all the settings of both sets.

Of course. Since we know that both displays can conform to Rec709, there's no real advantage in one display vs the other. So the comments that one is clearly superior to the other based on color is just a bit silly...especially on in-store comparisons where no calibration has taken place.
DavidHir's Avatar DavidHir
02:12 PM Liked: 490
post #1453 of 3156
05-31-2013 | Posts: 10,657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Of course. Since we know that both displays can conform to Rec709, there's no real advantage in one display vs the other. So the comments that one is clearly superior to the other based on color is just a bit silly...especially on in-store comparisons where no calibration has taken place.

I don't completely understand how color works on all displays and in regards to the math behind it. Both displays comform, yet there are slight differences in how the color looks as some say the Panasonics look a bit warmer where as the Samsungs a bit cooler after full calibration; at the Shootout, calibrators had the Panasonics a 9.1 to 8.8 for the Samsung. Not sure if it's related to delta error differences.
RUSSIANTEXAN's Avatar RUSSIANTEXAN
10:39 PM Liked: 10
post #1454 of 3156
06-01-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2013
Spent some time comparing Sammy f8500 vs Panny ZT60 in Best Buy Galleria.
Ended up buying Panasonic ZT60 65 in., the only one available in entire Greater Houston Metro.
It will be delivered tomorrow.
abalone's Avatar abalone
06:16 AM Liked: 20
post #1455 of 3156
06-02-2013 | Posts: 145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSSIANTEXAN View Post

Spent some time comparing Sammy f8500 vs Panny ZT60 in Best Buy Galleria.
Ended up buying Panasonic ZT60 65 in., the only one available in entire Greater Houston Metro.
It will be delivered tomorrow.

What swayed your decision? I spent some time with the F8500 and VT60 at Magnolia yesterday and can't decide yet. I found the F8500 sharper, although it could be made about as unsharp as the Panny if that's your preference. The VT60 did have richer color, but also dimmer or greyer whites. I only did a little configuration tweaking, so take these observations with a teaspoon of salt. Just curious what you saw.

(edit: I should have added they both looked very good. You have to pick some nits to choose between them.)
RUSSIANTEXAN's Avatar RUSSIANTEXAN
07:31 AM Liked: 10
post #1456 of 3156
06-02-2013 | Posts: 12
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Agree F8500 looks brighter and sharper side by side with ZT60, but it looks like increased clarity in digital photography.
Picture becomes more vivid in terms of micro contrast but looses some shade transitions. But its more personal I would say.
Esthetically ZT60 looks much more elegant too according to my wife.
We asked sales reps to dim lights to the minimum and ZT60 was real winner in natural colors reproduction.
I did not consider VT 60 in any case. I had to make my choice between Ultra HD Sony XBR-65X900A and above mentioned plasmas from
Samsung and Panasonic.
RUSSIANTEXAN's Avatar RUSSIANTEXAN
08:32 PM Liked: 10
post #1457 of 3156
06-02-2013 | Posts: 12
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TV was delivered about 5PM today. Setting it up now.
Sammie2980's Avatar Sammie2980
09:55 PM Liked: 64
post #1458 of 3156
06-02-2013 | Posts: 310
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Congrats welcome to the club my friend
RUSSIANTEXAN's Avatar RUSSIANTEXAN
10:08 PM Liked: 10
post #1459 of 3156
06-02-2013 | Posts: 12
Joined: Jun 2013
Thank you.
Still playing with TV setting.
The only part not tested so far 3D functionality.
I will get 3D BD tomorrow.
Other than that TV is perfect. It sits temporary on living room cabinet.
I have older LG plasma TV hanging over fireplace (I will move it to guest room
and replace with Panny next week. Pretty visible difference in terms of reflections
between those 2 TVs even being turned off: ZT60 has only 40% compared to older plasma reflections.
cosmos5861's Avatar cosmos5861
02:58 PM Liked: 13
post #1460 of 3156
06-03-2013 | Posts: 517
Joined: May 2005
I am looking at the F8500 vs ZT60. I am having a hard time deciding. I have a room that is very bright during day but not direct sunlight on the plasma. What are some of the negatives on both panels? Any advise would be great.
cosmos5861's Avatar cosmos5861
05:39 PM Liked: 13
post #1461 of 3156
06-03-2013 | Posts: 517
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RUSSIANTEXAN View Post

Spent some time comparing Sammy f8500 vs Panny ZT60 in Best Buy Galleria.
Ended up buying Panasonic ZT60 65 in., the only one available in entire Greater Houston Metro.
It will be delivered tomorrow.

Can you tell me why you picked the ZT60?
RUSSIANTEXAN's Avatar RUSSIANTEXAN
05:59 AM Liked: 10
post #1462 of 3156
06-04-2013 | Posts: 12
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Both are awesome panels.
It's like considering between Mercedes and BMW.
Listen to your heart.
No regrets so far. Tested 3D functionality yesterday (BD and 2D upscale).
hdqboss's Avatar hdqboss
11:46 AM Liked: 12
post #1463 of 3156
06-05-2013 | Posts: 30
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After following this thread (and other threads on this forum) for the last few months as well as reading the reviews on cnet, VE and other sites I thought i wanted the ZT60. I have been anxiously waiting for my local BB to get one in to look at it and compare to the F8500 just to be sure. BB finally got it in yesterday so I went there last night to look at it. After a lengthy discussion with 3 BB employees including a manager regarding a) whether they actually had one b) whether it could be opened and displayed before 6/9 and c) whether they would set it up now I finally got to see it right below a F8500. Much to my dismay the picture on the F8500 was much sharper. We played with the settings on both to try and get a comparable picture but the F8500 continued to sharper, more detailed and the whites much whiter. The whites on the ZT60 looked gray. Unfortunately both TVs were coax to the BB in house feed so I could not test any BDs. According to the sales associate the F8500 had been on display for two months and the ZT60 was literally just out of the box. So now I am more confused then ever as to which one to buy. frown.gif
vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97
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06-05-2013 | Posts: 11,657
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How close were you standing to see the improved sharpness? Also, the F8500 had the benefit of already being well broken in (not to mention it has better video processing on less than ideal signals).
Ken Ross's Avatar Ken Ross
12:06 PM Liked: 1889
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06-05-2013 | Posts: 25,269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdqboss View Post

After following this thread (and other threads on this forum) for the last few months as well as reading the reviews on cnet, VE and other sites I thought i wanted the ZT60. I have been anxiously waiting for my local BB to get one in to look at it and compare to the F8500 just to be sure. BB finally got it in yesterday so I went there last night to look at it. After a lengthy discussion with 3 BB employees including a manager regarding a) whether they actually had one b) whether it could be opened and displayed before 6/9 and c) whether they would set it up now I finally got to see it right below a F8500. Much to my dismay the picture on the F8500 was much sharper. We played with the settings on both to try and get a comparable picture but the F8500 continued to sharper, more detailed and the whites much whiter. The whites on the ZT60 looked gray. Unfortunately both TVs were coax to the BB in house feed so I could not test any BDs. According to the sales associate the F8500 had been on display for two months and the ZT60 was literally just out of the box. So now I am more confused then ever as to which one to buy. frown.gif

You've seen what many others have seen, including myself. I tried everything I could to get comparable sharpness and whites, but just couldn't. The only setting where it helped in certain aspects, was the Vivid mode. But that mode, like the 8500's Dynamic mode, are just ugly. Comparing the watchable Panasonic modes (THX, Cal) to the comparable Movie mode of the 8500, resulted in observations just as you stated.

That's why I went with the 8500.
hdqboss's Avatar hdqboss
12:09 PM Liked: 12
post #1466 of 3156
06-05-2013 | Posts: 30
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We were standing about 5 - 6 feet away. I asked about hooking them up to BD player and the associate said they would probably do that in about 2 months when the ZT60 got broken in. My set up would be Hopper/BD player sourced through an Onkyo TX-NR818 via HDMI.
vinnie97's Avatar vinnie97
12:26 PM Liked: 1012
post #1467 of 3156
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^If that is your typical viewing distance, it could be a problem (then again, the quality of the signal emanating via coaxial was probably not ideal). If you can wait it out and see a more equitable comparison with Blu-ray content, that might be a better decision.
Sammie2980's Avatar Sammie2980
03:37 PM Liked: 64
post #1468 of 3156
06-05-2013 | Posts: 310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdqboss View Post

After following this thread (and other threads on this forum) for the last few months as well as reading the reviews on cnet, VE and other sites I thought i wanted the ZT60. I have been anxiously waiting for my local BB to get one in to look at it and compare to the F8500 just to be sure. BB finally got it in yesterday so I went there last night to look at it. After a lengthy discussion with 3 BB employees including a manager regarding a) whether they actually had one b) whether it could be opened and displayed before 6/9 and c) whether they would set it up now I finally got to see it right below a F8500. Much to my dismay the picture on the F8500 was much sharper. We played with the settings on both to try and get a comparable picture but the F8500 continued to sharper, more detailed and the whites much whiter. The whites on the ZT60 looked gray. Unfortunately both TVs were coax to the BB in house feed so I could not test any BDs. According to the sales associate the F8500 had been on display for two months and the ZT60 was literally just out of the box. So now I am more confused then ever as to which one to buy. frown.gif

This is the first year competition between the 2 have been so close and it really is a hard year to make a decision. You honestly cannot go wrong with either and lucky to be in the position to own either. Not many can drop 3.3k-4.1k on a TV. For that alone I feel fortunate though in the end it will really come down to your viewing habits and what aspects of picture are important to you.

Myself I do some watching in the day and in that case a 8500 is a damn fine option, though the majority of my watching is at night in a dim room with some biased lighting. If I did more daytime watching and if I watched a lot of 3D I would have gotten the 8500 no questions asked. At the same time I also value blacks more then a super bright picture because I know how bright my previous displays were I know brightness won't bother me. Even though it is almost splitting hairs in black levels there is enough difference for me personally.

As for the sharpness thing. The panny seems sharp to me. I really do not know what peopel are talking about when they say the panny isn't sharp. I personally believe and so do some others think the sammy is doing some type of edge enhancement in how they drive the image. Which is fine by all means but that is just preference. As for white. The only thing I can say would be if you didn't see the 8500 next to the panny and you just saw the panny would the white be white? if so then it's not the color of white just the brightness of it. Example. If I hold my Galaxy S4 which is white next to a white screen like my laptop, which looks whiter. The brighter image. Turn of laptop screen, my phone is the new bright white. It doesn't make one any less white.

I personally love my ZT but I'm not going to scoff at the 8500 by any means because I have every intention of buying one this year. As well as keeping my ZT, and 500M. The VT30 gots to go though. I don't love it anymore

In the end Determine your viewing habits, and what is more important to you. Blacks, Brightness, Price, etc etc
abalone's Avatar abalone
07:17 AM Liked: 20
post #1469 of 3156
06-06-2013 | Posts: 145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hdqboss View Post

Much to my dismay the picture on the F8500 was much sharper. We played with the settings on both to try and get a comparable picture but the F8500 continued to sharper, more detailed and the whites much whiter. The whites on the ZT60 looked gray. Unfortunately both TVs were coax to the BB in house feed so I could not test any BDs. So now I am more confused then ever as to which one to buy. (

I saw the same thing with a F8500 next to a VT60 playing the same BD. Also saw it between the E7000 and GT50, with the BB salesman standing next to me saying that Panasonic "blows away" the Samsung. I bought the E7000, and will very likely get the F8500. Some people claim Samsung is doing something "unnatural" to get that sharpness, but who knows which set is more true to the source material. I understand the feeling of owning what you're certain is "the best", but in this case there's no consensus winner. You pays your money, and you takes your choice. Doesn't matter what anyone else prefers, get the one you want to live with.
Arduin's Avatar Arduin
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post #1470 of 3156
06-08-2013 | Posts: 12
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There is an obvious difference between the F8500 and ZT60 in the depth of blacks when there is ambient light. If you watch the 2013 HDTV shootout (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CNRNuX7zL2U), you will notice that the ZT60 (on the left) has a deeper black than the F8500 (right of the ZT60). This is apparent when the white "Oppo" text is being displayed.
Tags: Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv

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