F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 52 - AVS Forum
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post #1531 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by coresare View Post

You know one thing I noticed between the two sets. The ZT sometimes had this green tint in gradient areas such as a person's face where the lighter cheek area transitioned to the darker area of the side of the face.

I don't notice it on the F8500. Not sure why...
You have to adjust your color gamut and color demosaicing with decode filter for calibration, the result is impressive on St60 ... wink.gif

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post #1532 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 01:26 PM
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For the Elites. What serial numbers should I avoid?
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post #1533 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 01:31 PM
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The serial number 108812295
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post #1534 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 07:51 PM
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Anyone coming from a ZT to a F8500? What are your thoughts? Any regrets? What made you go with the F8500 over the ZT? Thanks for the help.. I currently have a ZT but am thinking I might switch if I cant get over the fan noise.

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post #1535 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 08:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iChristopher View Post

Anyone coming from a ZT to a F8500? What are your thoughts? Any regrets? What made you go with the F8500 over the ZT? Thanks for the help.. I currently have a ZT but am thinking I might switch if I cant get over the fan noise.

Interesting question. I was in Best Buy the other day and saw the F8500 next to the VT60 and I did notice the F8500 was quite a bit brighter (like 50% or more). Next year, if they can equal the ZT's black level, Samsung's set will be king.
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post #1536 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iChristopher View Post

Anyone coming from a ZT to a F8500? What are your thoughts? Any regrets? What made you go with the F8500 over the ZT? Thanks for the help.. I currently have a ZT but am thinking I might switch if I cant get over the fan noise.

I chose the 8500 over the ZT because I felt it did more things well. To me it was the better all-around display. The black levels are virtually the same for 95% of the material most people would view. For the other 5% of material viewed in a totally dark room, the ZT would have a slight edge.

However watching movies like TDK, I can only describe the 8500's blacks as inky and I really didn't feel what I had to give up in the 8500 to achieve that last ounce of blacks was worth it. Keep in mind that just last year, the 8500 would have been considered the class leader in black levels.

What the 8500 offers is not only a brighter picture, but a better controlled ABL. This keeps bright images brighter, as they are meant to be, when that bright area extends to significant areas of screen real estate. Thus bright outdoor scenes have a more natural look to them.

Additionally, most people find the 8500's image to be sharper and better defined. There are other niceties like the Evolution Kit that has the potential for PQ improvements down the road.

Both are great panels, you just have to decide what's important to you.
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post #1537 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 09:46 PM
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Saw the Elite, the ZT60, and the Sammy F8500 today with my Magnolia rep. The Elite had the best blacks I have ever seen. I think that Samsung has put Panasonic out of the plasma business with the F8500. It has a better overall viewing room options and it did well in both dark and bright environments.
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post #1538 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 09:49 PM
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So for me it is the Elite with the Sammy as second choice. When I get the Elite setup I will evaluate under my particular viewing conditions. If I am not satisfied, I then will evaluate the F8500.
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post #1539 of 3105 Old 06-25-2013, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I chose the 8500 over the ZT because I felt it did more things well. To me it was the better all-around display. The black levels are virtually the same for 95% of the material most people would view. For the other 5% of material viewed in a totally dark room, the ZT would have a slight edge.

However watching movies like TDK, I can only describe the 8500's blacks as inky and I really didn't feel what I had to give up in the 8500 to achieve that last ounce of blacks was worth it. Keep in mind that just last year, the 8500 would have been considered the class leader in black levels.

What the 8500 offers is not only a brighter picture, but a better controlled ABL. This keeps bright images brighter, as they are meant to be, when that bright area extends to significant areas of screen real estate. Thus bright outdoor scenes have a more natural look to them.

Additionally, most people find the 8500's image to be sharper and better defined. There are other niceties like the Evolution Kit that has the potential for PQ improvements down the road.

Both are great panels, you just have to decide what's important to you.

Thanks for the insight! I've heard that the 8500 has input lag in gaming which can be remedied some what with labeling one of the inputs as PC. With the ZT I've experienced close to 0 input lag when in game mode.... This is definitely something I'm worried about... if the lag is not that noticeable I would definitely consider exchanging my noisy ZT.

I've heard great things about the black levels on the 8500 and probably wouldn't notice any difference when in my living room. I would love to go 8500 and save some cash and use that toward a new set for my bedroom.... Lots to think about. Best Buy has been great, my sales guy said if i wasnt happy with my ZT he'd gladly exchange it for me.

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post #1540 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 12:18 AM
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After watching about 30 minutes of Avatar 3D and 10 minutes of Life of Pi 3D on an F8500 and then on a VT60 in a room with very dim ambient light. (supposedly both calibrated after 100 hour slide burn in by an ISF certified tech in 3D mode within the movie mode settings for each) I have to say the Samsung wins in 3D clarity since the brighter image really made the 3D stand out in comparison and looked not only sharper but more lifelike during the very dark spirit scenes in Avatar with the glowing jellyfish like floating creatures on top of very inky blacks. For Life of Pi, I chose the dark Island scene and the whale jumping over the boat. Both HDTV's looked great, however the Samsung is clearly ahead when viewing 3D content. In order to make it a fair fight, the brightness would have had to have been lowered on the Sammy to match the Panny which would be like giving a golfer a handicap. That is something the shootout didn't consider when tabulating the scores as far as I can remember. In fact in the shootout, didn't they match the brightness levels of all the TV's by lowering the Sammy's down further than they would have normally calibrated it for home use to make the audience voting on picture quality more fair? And the Sammy ended up winning the popular vote anyways by a very small margin, howver if it was calibrated by D-Nice with a higher brightness level, I think it would have scored even higher. Overall I'm glad I tested these TV's out myself and had to see what all the fuss was about after the shootut. The F8500 having four HDMI ports over the VT60's three is also a huge plus since I do have need for four. Also getting four 3D glasses vs two and getting a free $100 wireless keyboard is a plus. I'll be receiving mine July 6th smile.gif I can't wait. Samsung has really impressed me with this new plasma technology and I know it will hold me over for at least another 7 years.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iChristopher View Post

Thanks for the insight! I've heard that the 8500 has input lag in gaming which can be remedied some what with labeling one of the inputs as PC. With the ZT I've experienced close to 0 input lag when in game mode.... This is definitely something I'm worried about... if the lag is not that noticeable I would definitely consider exchanging my noisy ZT.

I've heard great things about the black levels on the 8500 and probably wouldn't notice any difference when in my living room. I would love to go 8500 and save some cash and use that toward a new set for my bedroom.... Lots to think about. Best Buy has been great, my sales guy said if i wasnt happy with my ZT he'd gladly exchange it for me.
I know it's not the same set, but DavidHir (forum user here) went in the opposite direction, except from the VT60. He was dissatisfied with the black level stability in a dark room and noticed visible fluctuations. It could have been that he had a bum set.
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post #1542 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 06:12 AM
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That's one theory smile.gif the floating blacks exist documented by calibrators here countless times

Whether it us a viewing issue can be debated but the fact that they float can not

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post #1543 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

That's one theory smile.gif the floating blacks exist documented by calibrators here countless times

Whether it us a viewing issue can be debated but the fact that they float can not

well thank the lord then that i can't see the BL float. what a disappointment that would be.
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post #1544 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 08:19 AM
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Never bothered me when it was a Panasonic issue but some folks it does

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post #1545 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:10 AM
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Where are we up to with regard to firmware updates ?
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post #1546 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

I think that Samsung has put Panasonic out of the plasma business with the F8500.

Let us know when Sammy has an ST60 contender. Good grief, Panny is offering what may be the best value (for PQ) in HDTV history.

How is the motion on the Elite compared to either plasma?

Separately, has anyone found that the ZT60 or VT60 delivers a superior authentic blu-ray film viewing experience?
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post #1547 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iChristopher View Post

Thanks for the insight! I've heard that the 8500 has input lag in gaming which can be remedied some what with labeling one of the inputs as PC. With the ZT I've experienced close to 0 input lag when in game mode.... This is definitely something I'm worried about... if the lag is not that noticeable I would definitely consider exchanging my noisy ZT.

I've heard great things about the black levels on the 8500 and probably wouldn't notice any difference when in my living room. I would love to go 8500 and save some cash and use that toward a new set for my bedroom.... Lots to think about. Best Buy has been great, my sales guy said if i wasnt happy with my ZT he'd gladly exchange it for me.

Yes, changing the input name to PC will make the gaming experience much better. I'm not a gamer myself, but this seems to be the consensus.

You're correct about the blacks with the 8500, they are excellent and very stable with the latest firmware updates. I don't know of any owner that is currently complaining about floating blacks. It's a superb option for virtually any room or lighting condition (except direct sun streaming on the screen...of course). smile.gif
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post #1548 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Stu03 View Post

Where are we up to with regard to firmware updates ?

1104 if you're discussing the 8500. Samsung has been very responsive, almost to an unprecedented level that I can recall with any display I've ever owned, with updates that have addressed past issues. Brightness pops are still somewhat of an issue if you're a big 3D fan.
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post #1549 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:30 AM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

well thank the lord then that i can't see the BL float. what a disappointment that would be.

Yeah, I find it fascinating that I can't recall a single 8500 owner, of any size, that is currently complaining of floating blacks. The beat goes on. wink.gif
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post #1550 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, I find it fascinating that I can't recall a single 8500 owner, of any size, that is currently complaining of floating blacks. The beat goes on. wink.gif

it sure does...

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, I find it fascinating that I can't recall a single 8500 owner, of any size, that is currently complaining of floating blacks. The beat goes on. wink.gif
i know one calibrator said its still there even with the current FW. i dont know if its seen when watching with black bars or in content... but i DONT want to know!! im not going down that rabbit hole! i mostly avoid black bars whenever possible and this is a case where ignorance is bliss biggrin.gif

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post #1552 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

i know one calibrator said its still there even with the current FW. i dont know if its seen when watching with black bars or in content... but i DONT want to know!! im not going down that rabbit hole! i mostly avoid black bars whenever possible and this is a case where ignorance is bliss biggrin.gif

FB is not the same as light bleeding through the black bars. the latter happens when there is bright content around the black bars.

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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Let us know when Sammy has an ST60 contender. Good grief, Panny is offering what may be the best value (for PQ) in HDTV history.

How is the motion on the Elite compared to either plasma?

Separately, has anyone found that the ZT60 or VT60 delivers a superior authentic blu-ray film viewing experience?
Why do you all believe EVERYTHING you read? The ST60 is nothing more than an overpriced GT50. Yes I own a GT50
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post #1554 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:51 AM
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I don't find these sort of things to be definitive in any shape or form, but I'm sure some find them interesting enough to look at. These are from a 64F8500 on the left and 65VT60 on the right. Both in best out of the box modes (though the Sammy didn't have Dark Optimizer on because it was disabled and I didn't feel like power cycling their demo set. (I stitched the two pics together and resized obviously for comparison.)

The F8500 is out front in the showroom facing all of BB's killer overhead lights (you can see these reflected). I think it still fares pretty well. The VT60 was in an ideal room to itself with lights turned off. FWIW:

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post #1555 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 11:57 AM
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Why do you all believe EVERYTHING you read? The ST60 is nothing more than an overpriced GT50. Yes I own a GT50

Overpriced ?

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post #1556 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

FB is not the same as light bleeding through the black bars. the latter happens when there is bright content around the black bars.
yes i know... i was thinking the level of black in the blk bars would be the float? so then its really only in content? but dont answer that!!! wink.gif

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post #1557 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by ljmart View Post

i know one calibrator said its still there even with the current FW. i dont know if its seen when watching with black bars or in content... but i DONT want to know!! im not going down that rabbit hole! i mostly avoid black bars whenever possible and this is a case where ignorance is bliss biggrin.gif

I've watched with and without letter boxing and can only recall seeing one minor instance of it. I don't watch 4:3 movies, so I can't attest to any issues with side bars as opposed to top & bottom, but I can't see why there'd be a difference. Either way, we don't see owners complaining, and this is not a shy bunch. wink.gif
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post #1558 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I've watched with and without letter boxing and can only recall seeing one minor instance of it. I don't watch 4:3 movies, so I can't attest to any issues with side bars as opposed to top & bottom, but I can't see why there'd be a difference. Either way, we don't see owners complaining, and this is not a shy bunch. wink.gif
now thats a fact thats obvious! wink.gif

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I've watched with and without letter boxing and can only recall seeing one minor instance of it. I don't watch 4:3 movies, so I can't attest to any issues with side bars as opposed to top & bottom, but I can't see why there'd be a difference. Either way, we don't see owners complaining, and this is not a shy bunch. wink.gif

That being said, Ken Ross, I wonder what the videophile ownership ratio is? I'd expect the typical Best Buy consumer with a decent budget to walk away with the F8500 (over the VT60 or ZT60). I wouldn't expect this consumer to engage in serious viewing much less pop in here to discuss minutiae.

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post #1560 of 3105 Old 06-26-2013, 01:32 PM
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That being said, Ken Ross, I wonder what the videophile ownership ratio is? I'd expect the typical Best Buy consumer with a decent budget to walk away with the F8500 (over the VT60 or ZT60). I wouldn't expect this consumer to engage in serious viewing much less pop in here to discuss minutiae.

Of course I think you're wrong, very wrong. The assumption that only 'videophiles' buy the ZT and only well-healed 'video-ignorant' buyers purchase the 8500, is very silly. We have discussed the 'minutiae' here in the various 8500 threads, you just having been paying attention.

I, myself, am as much a videophile as any ZT owner out there. Because you feel that obtaining the last ounce of MLL somehow qualifies one as a videophile, is more than amusing to me. To have, in the 8500, a display that would have been considered class-leading in MLL in 2012, barely beating out the VT50 for MLL (which was forever raved about for black levels), but also having the ability to present brilliant daytime scenes far less encumbered by the very limiting impact of ABL, is a win win in my book.

You see, most of us watch dark movies, bright movies, sports, dramas etc. I prefer a display that can do it all and do it all well. Not to say that the ZT can't do most things well, but to my...wait for it....videophile eyes, I find the 8500 presents a better ability to do many things well.

I think your suggestion exemplifies a kind of snobbery that only knowledgeable buyers would buy the ZT and pass over the 8500. Wrong, quite wrong.
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