F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 58 - AVS Forum
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post #1711 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 04:19 AM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

It's amazing. After a few years nothing has change with respect to Sammy hate. Good luck Ken. I was booted temporarily way back for giving some kuro worshipper the same bias they put in the Sammy threads.
You might have better luck with the panny people. I fail to see how slamming Sammy makes Panny better but some things never change.

Conversely, how does slamming Panny help anyone? There is no question that Panny has done more for plasma over the last several years by a wide margin than any other firm. How is this bad for any of us?

And how is it that identifying shortcomings of the Sammy compared to the Panny equate to hate? For example, is color saturation better, overall, on the F8500? Or is the VT60 (or ZT60) better? Slight as it may be, which can present skin tones better with the least compromise? Which, at the extremes, is better with shadow detail? Which is least likely to suffer from floating blacks?

There is some rationale behind the VT/ZT winning the pro "consolation prize" at the shootout. There is also something to be said about the F8500 unprecedented handling of ABL.
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post #1712 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 04:31 AM
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Am I correct in assuming that having BB calibrate my set would not be considered a "professional" calibration? Does anyone know of a resource that I can use to find a reputable calibrator in the Cincinnati area?
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post #1713 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 04:33 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

Am I correct in assuming that having BB calibrate my set would not be considered a "professional" calibration? Does anyone know of a resource that I can use to find a reputable calibrator in the Cincinnati area?


Chad B my friend lives right up the road in Piqua, see my calibration review in my sig smile.gif Stay away from Best Buy chances of getting a good calibration are not good.
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post #1714 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 04:41 AM
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I just discovered that the F8500 will pass DD and DTS from its optical connection.

This is huge for me as I use a SONOS sound bar and no other TV that I know of can do this.

SOLD! I get my F8500 this Saturday!
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post #1715 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 05:23 AM
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Um, I thought this was a discussion on the ZT60 vs the F8500.................make it stop.............
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post #1716 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 05:25 AM
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Chunon,

Thank you for the referral. I will contact him as soon as I decide between these two displays. Still on the fence....confused.gif
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post #1717 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 05:34 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

Chunon,

Thank you for the referral. I will contact him as soon as I decide between these two displays. Still on the fence....confused.gif

Tough choice both great displays I don't envy you there smile.gif I am sure Chad would be happy to have some more local clients also

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post #1718 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by fr8doggr View Post

Am I correct in assuming that having BB calibrate my set would not be considered a "professional" calibration? Does anyone know of a resource that I can use to find a reputable calibrator in the Cincinnati area?

Google HDTV by Chad B and set it up.

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post #1719 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 07:30 AM
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Another vote for Chad B. Just had him out a little over a week ago for my 65VT60. Truly outstanding.

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post #1720 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by discopaul View Post

It's amazing. After a few years nothing has change with respect to Sammy hate. Good luck Ken. I was booted temporarily way back for giving some kuro worshipper the same bias they put in the Sammy threads.
You might have better luck with the panny people. I fail to see how slamming Sammy makes Panny better but some things never change.

Couple of things. Guys we live in a bright world. Go out on a sunny day, heck even an overcast day on you'll note how important brightness is. Even at night time we light things up. We don't live in a world engulfed in a black hole.
Next, blacks for the sake of blacks means nothing. The shade of gray has to be accurate , not just go deep black because the set can go deep black without accurately reproducing a shade of grade. Kinda like having a bass heavy speaker. Just because it can go low doesn't mean every low frequency is at the low frequency that speaker excels at.

Also, the dark room thing is just to offset the inability to get bright enough. It's the converse of adding lights around a set to provide the illusion of higher contrast and better blacks. There is nothing more truthful about watching in a cave-like setting other than knowing you're gonna bump into something.

Anyway, I'll go back to reading.


Umm.. I own 2 Samsung plasmas (as well as a Samsung refridgerator and washer/dryer). I also happen to be a Korean American, so no, I don't hate Samsung. I think this thread is about giving pro and cons of both Samsung and Panny plasmas. I purchased my VT60 because it was cheaper than the F8500 in my area, making it the better value in my case. They are both great sets, and that has been stated numerous times on this thread.
The F8500 can get brighter than the VT/ZT, no dispute there. But that is NOT the end-all be-all for picture quality, otherwise everyone would buy LED sets. Blacks are also not the end-all be-all, but everyone here owns plasma tvs because they blow away LCD/LED sets with their consistent deep black levels. So I guess I'm not understanding your point. Yes, its sunny outside, so what? Do you have a tv set up in your back yard, outside? Most people don't. My VT60 (as well as my 2 Sammy plasmas) serves me just fine in my 'typical' house with plenty of windows and bright fluorescent overhead lighting. I don't wish it to be brighter. If I wanted brighter, I would get an LED and put it on scorch mode. Its all about balance for ultimate picutre quality, and plasmas offer the best balance today (OLED not withstanding). It just happens to be that the F8500 gets a little brighter, while the VT/ZT gets a little darker. That's about it. Otherwise, its a like a 90-95% overlap in picture when properly calibrated. If you want bright whites so bad, just buy an LED already..
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Pay no mind to disco, an infamous sammy boy ghost of AVS past. Any slight against his precious and the defensive mode goes into overdrive. As soon as cinemas start illuminating their theaters with lighting during features or the remaining drive-ins begin to show films during daylight hours, I might begin to pay attention to this brightness war. I most certainly won't in the meantime.
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post #1722 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by discopaul View Post


Also, the dark room thing is just to offset the inability to get bright enough. It's the converse of adding lights around a set to provide the illusion of higher contrast and better blacks. There is nothing more truthful about watching in a cave-like setting other than knowing you're gonna bump into something.

Anyway, I'll go back to reading.

Well the interesting thing with CR is how just a little bit of visual decrease in black, at the MLLs the best plasmas are at these days, can raise your CR 2X. But to get the same 2X increase as the result of raising the brightness, requires a considerable increase in the top end.

The point I've made is that even viewing in a dark room as I do the vast majority of time, doesn't mean you won't be watching content that is bright or has scenes within a relatively dark movie that are also bright. This is why I value a less aggressive ABL as well as the ability to achieve a higher luminance without clipping. Apparently unlike some here, I watch content that varies from very dark to very bright to everything in-between. I also don't watch just movies, there's plenty of other material to entertain. smile.gif
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post #1723 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Well the interesting thing with CR is how just a little bit of visual decrease in black, at the MLLs the best plasmas are at these days, can raise your CR 2X. But to get the same 2X increase as the result of raising the brightness, requires a considerable increase in the top end.

The point I've made is that even viewing in a dark room as I do the vast majority of time, doesn't mean you won't be watching content that is bright or has scenes within a relatively dark movie that are also bright. This is why I value a less aggressive ABL as well as the ability to achieve a higher luminance without clipping. Apparently unlike some here, I watch content that varies from very dark to very bright to everything in-between. I also don't watch just movies, there's plenty of other material to entertain. smile.gif

Since you brought up contrast ratio, it is interesting that some sets don't maintain that CR through the entire apl range
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post #1724 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

Since you brought up contrast ratio, it is interesting that some sets don't maintain that CR through the entire apl range

could you give an example of that? i'm thinking maybe the f8500, but not sure. any ideas?

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Blacks are also not the end-all be-all,

No, let's just call black the "first all"



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post #1726 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 12:53 PM
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The point I've made is that even viewing in a dark room as I do the vast majority of time, doesn't mean you won't be watching content that is bright or has scenes within a relatively dark movie that are also bright. This is why I value a less aggressive ABL as well as the ability to achieve a higher luminance without clipping.

Less aggressive ABL is a good thing, especially when it can be done without any trade-offs. Perhaps you have the only perfect plasma ever made?

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Apparently unlike some here, I watch content that varies from very dark to very bright to everything in-between. I also don't watch just movies, there's plenty of other material to entertain. smile.gif

There you go again, member Ken Ross. So VT60 owner can't enjoy non-dark scenes? Hm. Can F8500 owners enjoy proper skin tones? I guess you don't watch movies with close-ups (using your logic). And surely none of the films you enjoy would benefit from slightly better shadow detail and blacks that never float!?

The VT60 (or ZT60) is the right set for many, many members here. Those who prefer the VT60 aren't crying about ABL. Those who prefer the F8500 aren't crying about slightly inferior saturation and shadow detail. The rationale behind the mission to "prove" that the F8500 is flawless is beyond me.

I wonder who calibrated Ken's perfect F8500? Have the measurments been posted?
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post #1727 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by airgas1998 View Post

could you give an example of that? i'm thinking maybe the f8500, but not sure. any ideas?

It's not my analysis not did I broach the subject here first the charts speak for themselves

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post #1728 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 12:57 PM
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It's not my analysis not did I broach the subject here first the charts speak for themselves

got it...i forgot about "the charts".

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post #1729 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 01:01 PM
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got it...i forgot about "the charts".
Right in my sig should you choose to look might not line up with the "flawless" panel rhetoric tho

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post #1730 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 01:24 PM
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Right in my sig should you choose to look might not line up with the "flawless" panel rhetoric tho

Ah, c'mon. Are any of these "flaws" visible!?

LOL.

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post #1731 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 01:44 PM
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Less aggressive ABL is a good thing, especially when it can be done without any trade-offs. Perhaps you have the only perfect plasma ever made?

And where did I say that? Where did I say that? If you can't point to where I said that, please refrain from putting words in my mouth. Unfreakingbelievable.
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There you go again, member Ken Ross. So VT60 owner can't enjoy non-dark scenes?
And I said that WHERE?
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Hm. Can F8500 owners enjoy proper skin tones? I guess you don't watch movies with close-ups (using your logic).

There is nothing wrong with 8500 skin tones, but if you'd like to make stuff up, have at it. Seems to be your specialty.
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The VT60 (or ZT60) is the right set for many, many members here. Those who prefer the VT60 aren't crying about ABL. Those who prefer the F8500 aren't crying about slightly inferior saturation and shadow detail. The rationale behind the mission to "prove" that the F8500 is flawless is beyond me.

So now I have a 'mission statement'? Amazing stuff, just simply amazing stuff. Oh, and where did I say the VT60 isn't the right set for many members? Keep making stuff up.
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I wonder who calibrated Ken's perfect F8500? Have the measurments been posted?

Welcome to my ignore list. If you have nothing intelligent to say, accuse me of saying things I've never said, there's no point reading your posts.

Ba bye.
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post #1732 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 07:21 PM
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got it...i forgot about "the charts".
The only chart I need are my own two eyes after a proper calibration. Heck, even out of the box the image is very watchable. Just enjoy whatever set you purchase and forget about the tiny flaws.
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post #1733 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 09:03 PM
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I keep reading this thread with my popcorn and continue to be amazed. It's stunning how hot the arguments get over a TV set that will most likely be obsolete within 1 or 2 years. I mean seriously, I've seen them both in Magnolia and they're both fantastic. I'm still completely torn on which one to get, F8500 is better in bright rooms and I do a lot of daytime viewing; yet the ZT/VT has less input lag, and I'm a fairly serious gamer. Still, it's a great choice to have as I'm coming from a Samsung LN-46A650.
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post #1734 of 3105 Old 07-02-2013, 09:04 PM
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I keep reading this thread with my popcorn and continue to be amazed. It's stunning how hot the arguments get over a TV set that will most likely be obsolete within 1 or 2 years. I mean seriously, I've seen them both in Magnolia and they're both fantastic. I'm still completely torn on which one to get, F8500 is better in bright rooms and I do a lot of daytime viewing; yet the ZT/VT has less input lag, and I'm a fairly serious gamer. Still, it's a great choice to have as I'm coming from a Samsung LN-46A650.

Are you sure about 1 or 2 years? Everyone manufacturer seems to be moving to 4K, so maybe less than that.
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There are already 4K sets available, so by that definition, they were obsolete before (or immediately after) their debut.
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post #1736 of 3105 Old 07-03-2013, 12:11 AM
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rolleyes.gif I know it's obsolete in terms of what is available at any cost, I meant it more in terms of the same price range.
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Now this is getting silly. We are talking about two amazing tv's here that have some differences. They are by no means becoming obsolete anytime soon just because a newer technology exists at double the price. I for one will enjoy my 64F8500 for at least another 6 years if not more. So far both of these sets are at the top of the food chain in terms of bang for your buck if you are looking for reference level quality. If you just want brightness, then get an LED and make sure to sit right in the front middle. I prefer to allow everybody in the room to enjoy the best image possible. All this fanboy nonsense is reminding me of the HD-DVD vs Blu ray battles that went on, but in a much smaller scale. I owned a Samsung 50 inch DLP which was a flagship model at its time and loved watching movies on it. Now my new Samsung is leaps and bounds better in most every way except in those areas DLP's shined. Fast moving images and no ir to worry about. However Plasma's are simply stunning when calibrated to their full potential.

I viewed the VT60 and F8500 side by side fully calibrated and the color levels and skin tones were identical. For anyone to say one is better than the other after calibration had a calibrator that didn't do a good job. Furthermore the F8500's day mode and 3D mode after calibration should look better to everyone in this forum in a blind comparison test between the F8500 and VT60. The night mode calibration should yield a very slight black level advantage to the VT60 in 2D mode only when viewed in a pitch black room. My advice to anyone reading this and is undecided between going for the F8500 or VT60, to take into consideration what I just said. It is as honest and non biased a recommendcation I can give.

To sum it up. F8500 has better 3D and 2D daytime viewing when calibrated.
VT60 has better 2D viewing in a dark room when calibrated. Although I can honestly say the advantage is ever so slight and makes the clear winner for me the F8500.
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To sum it up. F8500 has better 3D and 2D daytime viewing when calibrated.
VT60 has better 2D viewing in a dark room when calibrated. Although I can honestly say the advantage is ever so slight and makes the clear winner for me the F8500.

This is the conclusion I think I've reached after all the reading and comparing them side to side. The one advantage that keeps me on the VT/ZT is the lesser gaming lag, but I'm by no means a pro or elite gamer, so that's probably a moot point for my own purchasing decisions
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rolleyes.gif I know it's obsolete in terms of what is available at any cost, I meant it more in terms of the same price range.
Understood, though the W900A SRP is just under $3k more than the ZT60.
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post #1740 of 3105 Old 07-03-2013, 03:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Lost! View Post

Are you sure about 1 or 2 years? Everyone manufacturer seems to be moving to 4K, so maybe less than that.

The problem is they're virtually all edge lit LEDs that don't have the PQ of either plasmas or full-array LEDs that are, unfortunately, extinct.
Ken Ross is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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Samsung Pn51f8500 51 Inch 3d Smart Plasma Hdtv , Panasonic Viera Tc P65vt50 65 Inch Plasma Tv , Panasonic Viera Tc P60zt60 60 Inch Plasma Tv
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