F8500.. OR .. ZT60 ????? - Page 61 - AVS Forum
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post #1801 of 3105 Old 07-08-2013, 12:05 PM
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BB salesman are renowned for their calibration skills smile.gif

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post #1802 of 3105 Old 07-10-2013, 01:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post

When we went to compare the models the local BB Mag store had the VT, F8500 and ZT. The VT and ZT lacked punch and looked like someone put a screen door in front of them making them appear washed out. The BB sales person, a Panasonic fan, said he could tweak the Panasonics so that they were comparable in brightness and punch with the F8500 but admitted defeat after 20 minutes of tinkering. He could get the Panasonics to be somewhat close to the Samsung's standard settings but only if he pushed it in dynamic and really tweaked the settings to the point of loosing all color and blacks. That is why we ultimately purchased the F8500, the VT & ZT were a step back from our current Panasonic plasma that was pushed to it's limits as is to work in our bright room.

Yeah, for most material the F8500 will generally look punchier than the VT or ZT IMO. I tried on numerous occasions to bring either one to the level of the 8500 and I just couldn't. The dynamic mode of either set is not great, so I saw little point in wasting time tweaking those settings. But in their preferred THX and Movie modes, the 8500 looked significantly more punch to me than either the VT or ZT, regardless of the settings I tried. Some of that was related to the overall brightness, but some of it also had to do with the better controlled ABL on the Samsung.
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post #1803 of 3105 Old 07-11-2013, 09:03 PM
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+1. Samsung hit a home run this year. I'm not saying Panasonic s are near perfect it just the Samsung is better this year.
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post #1804 of 3105 Old 07-14-2013, 04:26 PM
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What is the situation with the F8500 and the ZT60 regarding independent, separate picture settings (brightness, contrast, etc.) per input.

My Kuro has that feature, and it turns out to be rather important. For whatever reason that the gods have invoked, optimum setting from an Oppo Blu-Ray player are somewhat different that optimum settings for HD cable, which are different from video game consoles.
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post #1805 of 3105 Old 07-16-2013, 04:51 PM
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Well I may have pulled of the deal of the century. I had a Samsung with Geek Squad protection that could not be fixed. I applied the credit for the Samsung to a new 60 inch ZT60 that was on sale for 2200!!!!!

I ended up paying 750 bucks for the ZT60 after the store credit!

I now have it connected to my Oppo 105 and I an just in shock. Never have I witnessed this picture perfection.

So happy!! N
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post #1806 of 3105 Old 07-16-2013, 04:52 PM
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Sorry I meant 3200. It was a one day sale at magnolia. By the way the ZT60 65 inched is on sale this week only at BB for 3499.99
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post #1807 of 3105 Old 07-16-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Yeah, for most material the F8500 will generally look punchier than the VT or ZT IMO. I tried on numerous occasions to bring either one to the level of the 8500 and I just couldn't. The dynamic mode of either set is not great, so I saw little point in wasting time tweaking those settings. But in their preferred THX and Movie modes, the 8500 looked significantly more punch to me than either the VT or ZT, regardless of the settings I tried. Some of that was related to the overall brightness, but some of it also had to do with the better controlled ABL on the Samsung.

That's funny, I found just the opposite. So, I went with the ZT. Very happy! To each his own. One man's trash is another's treasure I suppose.

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post #1808 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 05:36 AM
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Originally Posted by sirh View Post

That's funny, I found just the opposite. So, I went with the ZT. Very happy! To each his own. One man's trash is another's treasure I suppose.

It seems pretty clear that we have members favoring different qualities. I wonder if we can find a forum pro calibrator who outright favors the F8500 for critical viewing? Who are the F8500 owners using to calibrate their sets and are they getting feedback that these calibrators prefer the F8500? Ken, who did yours?

I can assure any reader here that my ChadB calibrated VT60 is not lacking in brightness and that the slight glare edge which the F8500 has simply isn't a factor for me. I'd rather have the better contrast, black levels, color accuracy and superior saturation. Finally, sharpness is superb and when asked, ChadB suggested that he didn't understand where forum members were coming from with the sharpness claims.

Neither set can be compared fairly in the confines of Best Buy. Neither will measure in the way they will after a pro calibration. Any conclusions reached at Best Buy are suspect at best.

I have my ISF Night report in pdf form. I figure there is a way to post it?
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post #1809 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It seems pretty clear that we have members favoring different qualities. I wonder if we can find a forum pro calibrator who outright favors the F8500 for critical viewing? Who are the F8500 owners using to calibrate their sets and are they getting feedback that these calibrators prefer the F8500? Ken, who did yours?

I can assure any reader here that my ChadB calibrated VT60 is not lacking in brightness and that the slight glare edge which the F8500 has simply isn't a factor for me. I'd rather have the better contrast, black levels, color accuracy and superior saturation. Finally, sharpness is superb and when asked, ChadB suggested that he didn't understand where forum members were coming from with the sharpness claims.

Neither set can be compared fairly in the confines of Best Buy. Neither will measure in the way they will after a pro calibration. Any conclusions reached at Best Buy are suspect at best.

I have my ISF Night report in pdf form. I figure there is a way to post it?

You may want to check out the VE HDTV shootout. It comes down to Panasonic offering slightly better blacks and the Samsung being able to produce a much brighter image. In a HT cave the quality of the Panasonic blacks will be more evident and in a room with light Samsung's ability to produce a brighter image will be more evident.
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post #1810 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

It seems pretty clear that we have members favoring different qualities. I wonder if we can find a forum pro calibrator who outright favors the F8500 for critical viewing? Who are the F8500 owners using to calibrate their sets and are they getting feedback that these calibrators prefer the F8500? Ken, who did yours?

I can assure any reader here that my ChadB calibrated VT60 is not lacking in brightness and that the slight glare edge which the F8500 has simply isn't a factor for me. I'd rather have the better contrast, black levels, color accuracy and superior saturation. Finally, sharpness is superb and when asked, ChadB suggested that he didn't understand where forum members were coming from with the sharpness claims.

Neither set can be compared fairly in the confines of Best Buy. Neither will measure in the way they will after a pro calibration. Any conclusions reached at Best Buy are suspect at best.

I have my ISF Night report in pdf form. I figure there is a way to post it?

I'd like to see your reports smile.gif there is a little paperclip icon visible when you reply
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post #1811 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smbsocal View Post

You may want to check out the VE HDTV shootout. It comes down to Panasonic offering slightly better blacks and the Samsung being able to produce a much brighter image. In a HT cave the quality of the Panasonic blacks will be more evident and in a room with light Samsung's ability to produce a brighter image will be more evident.

I want both, dammit!

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post #1812 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 08:15 AM
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I want both, dammit!

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post #1813 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I'd like to see your reports smile.gif there is a little paperclip icon visible when you reply

jh901 VT60 ISF Night.pdf 1335k .pdf file

Ah, ok. Let me know what you think!

Where is Ken's report for the F8500?
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post #1814 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 12:50 PM
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Very very nice ! Chad is a master haven't seem kens report maybe I missed it ?
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post #1815 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

jh901 VT60 ISF Night.pdf 1335k .pdf file

Ah, ok. Let me know what you think!

Where is Ken's report for the F8500?

Wow, that looks great! I'll have to check to see if Chad B is visiting the Seattle area in the near future.
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post #1816 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 03:23 PM
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Very very nice ! Chad is a master haven't seem kens report maybe I missed it ?

Shoot. I missed it too. Could someone post a link?

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Jh901. Did you use break in slides? How many hours did you have on the set before calibration?
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post #1818 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 07:31 PM
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Jh901. Did you use break in slides? How many hours did you have on the set before calibration?

I did happen to run the D-Nice slides for 100 hours consecutive in anticipation of the settings he was to provide, but it turned out that ChadB scheduled me sooner than I'd anticipated. I didn't check the hours before the calibration but I watched a great deal of blu-ray and cable for about a month after the slides.

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post #1819 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

jh901 VT60 ISF Night.pdf 1335k .pdf file

Ah, ok. Let me know what you think!

Where is Ken's report for the F8500?

Damn that is on point. cannot really get any better then that.
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post #1820 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Sammie2980 View Post

Damn that is on point. cannot really get any better then that.

I did also have ChadB measure the black level and in 60Hz it came in at .0015, but I use 96Hz and his meter didn't read it accurately. Guessing it's in the neighborhood of what D-Nice has reported. I have a VT50 at a neighbor's that ChadB calibrated also, but I haven't checked out the report yet.

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post #1821 of 3105 Old 07-17-2013, 08:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

jh901 VT60 ISF Night.pdf 1335k .pdf file

Ah, ok. Let me know what you think!

Where is Ken's report for the F8500?

My report is not coming since there are not enough hours on my display for calibration. I mentioned that just recently, but you must have missed that.

Not sure what your fascination is with my report, but Kevin Miller will be calibrating mine as he has all my other displays. Any report that I eventually post will be posted in one of the two proper places for it, the 8500 owner's thread or the 8500 settings thread.

As for my perceptions of PQ, they won't be changed by Chad, D-Nice or anyone else. I have dealt with displays long enough to know what I like. Calibrators may not place the value on a better controlled ABL as I do. To me that's an important aspect of PQ and it's impact is obvious to me in bright rooms or dark rooms. To me that too is an aspect of picture accuracy just as other parameters are. So the combination of great black levels and a better controlled ABL was what made me choose the 8500. Others may have other criteria that's important to them, and that's fine. They're watching their display, not me. I loved the PQ of my Fujitsus, Pioneer Elites, Sharp Elite and my 8500.

So quote anyone you choose, but I'm not sure why you continue to do so. This just gets very tiring and proves nothing.
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?

What does the calibration do for the consumer?

Where did the standards come from to illustrate the best picture quality? Against what baseline?
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

?

What does the calibration do for the consumer?

Where did the standards come from to illustrate the best picture quality? Against what baseline?

It's not best, it's most accurate: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1021933/display-calibration-root-fundamentals

Adjusting settings according to personal preference is not
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post #1824 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 04:13 AM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

?

What does the calibration do for the consumer?

Where did the standards come from to illustrate the best picture quality? Against what baseline?

You may prefer a "look" which deviates from the goal of reproducing accurately what's captured on the blu-ray. That said, one must become informed first rather than defending prior beliefs.

The VT60, ZT60 and the like are capable of being dialed in with high degree of accuracy and while for some reason, you may prefer inaccuracy here and there, it's a good idea to aspire to own a panel capable of presenting a reference PQ. When you see a calibrated VT60 or VT50 or ZT60 or even F8500 in the privacy of your own home (or a friends), then your skepticism will drop just ahead of your jaw.

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post #1825 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by nrc2112 View Post

?

What does the calibration do for the consumer?

Where did the standards come from to illustrate the best picture quality? Against what baseline?

Video calibration is to video what Audyssey (or a EQ) is to audio. Calibrating a video display allows the viewers to see an image that is accurate in color and clarity and properly matchs the original video source material (If the original was created/based on a calibrated system) . It is more or less setting the video display to a common baseline setting. There of course are going to be different schools of thoughts here such as those that prefer a calibrated display and those than prefer a display that is tweaked to their viewing preferences just like some people strive for a flat FR curve and other feel that a flat FR curve is just too bland and turn up the bass.
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post #1826 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 06:56 AM
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Video calibration is to video what Audyssey (or a EQ) is to audio.

Audyssey is controversial to some degree though, so perhaps there's a better analogy. The panel, as measured by gear, isn't impacted by the room in the way that sound waves (from speakers) do. PQ is far more straightforward. Plus, one can put an uncalibrated panel right beside a calibrated while looking at data and easily see how the measurements relate.

Those who doubt pro-calibration should give it a try before leaping to a poor conclusion.
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post #1827 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 07:52 AM
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My two cents on calibration, I don't try to push people towards it. However ....

Calibrating to a standard is not bad imo, balancing red green and blue(greyscale) is the foundation for everything that happens on a modern display if that is off then color accuracy and all the other things that make up a great picture are compromised. The only way to properly set that is with a meter and software. So that leaves either the DIY or professional route. Like JH901 mentions above see a professionally calibrated set before you judge. You many decide the "calibrated" look is not right for you but I doubt it. Very few people get a professional calibration that is done well and regret it afterwards. Flattening gamma, maximizing dynamic range and getting color as accurate as possible can not be a bad thing imo. I think where there is a subjective argument about light output, sharpness things of that nature.Some folks prefer a brighter picture than others etc. Again I would urge anyone that is skeptical to learn about the process the parameters that go into making a "reference" picture. Most calibrators will listen to what you want and adjust the calibration to suit your tastes.
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post #1828 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 08:13 AM
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Yes. It would be hard to argue that balancing the red, green and blue is a bad or unnecessary thing for those want to evaluate the performance of two or more panels. The "boutique" factory picture modes or simply adjusting the settings by eye will really do nothing more than push the consumer into an uninformed decision.

I have no doubt that the F8500 will look fantastic once calibrated. From what I gather, it will fall ever so slightly short in a few more areas than where the VT60 will. While the F8500 can become brighter, my ISF Day is putting out plenty of light for my viewing habits (indoors; normal light). I've posted the ISF Night for my VT60. If your set isn't calibrated, then look at the "before" and that's pretty much what you will be seeing. I am surprised that Ken has been able to evaluate his set's performance without a calibration.

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post #1829 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jh901 View Post

Yes. It would be hard to argue that balancing the red, green and blue is a bad or unnecessary thing for those want to evaluate the performance of two or more panels. The "boutique" factory picture modes or simply adjusting the settings by eye will really do nothing more than push the consumer into an uninformed decision.

I have no doubt that the F8500 will look fantastic once calibrated. From what I gather, it will fall ever so slightly short in a few more areas than where the VT60 will. While the F8500 can become brighter, my ISF Day is putting out plenty of light for my viewing habits (indoors; normal light). I've posted the ISF Night for my VT60. If your set isn't calibrated, then look at the "before" and that's pretty much what you will be seeing. I am surprised that Ken has been able to evaluate his set's performance without a calibration.

Can you link to your ISF night settings? Im curious to see as well.

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post #1830 of 3105 Old 07-18-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by brehiser View Post

Can you link to your ISF night settings? Im curious to see as well.

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