'Deep Blacks', 'Brightness' and 'Contrast Ratio', help a brother out (VT60 and F8500) - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 5 Old 04-24-2013, 06:37 PM - Thread Starter
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I had initially been considering a ZT60 but have lowered my sites on a Panasonic 60VT60 or Samsung 60F8500 and am trying to use the numbers people are finding in their tests to help figure out which one might be The One.

Lets start with 'Deep Blacks', the VT60 has been measured in one review to be between 0.003 cd/m2 and 0.005 cd/m2 where the F8500's is 0.02 cd/m2 according to this review. So the VT60 can be 4x darker!

Now brightness, one of those previous reviews measures the F8500 at a peak brightness of 214.74 cd/m2 where the other review finds several settings between 76cd/m2, 97cd/m2 and 114cd/m2 but ultimately claim a 'peak' number of 120cdm/m2 so the F8500 can be twice as bright!

Now interpreting these numbers is where it gets fuzzy and confusing, I can only assume (in an effort to be dramatic) the black numbers were recorded in picture modes that will result in deep blacks while the brightness numbers were recorded in modes that will give good brights as evidenced by the several numbers recorded for the VT60 so:

I don't care what the deepest black and the brightest white is across all picture modes, I care about what reasonable conclusions can I draw from these numbers as far as realistic contrast ratio, blacks, and brights within one picture mode?

I feel with some confidence by reading between the lines that as far as the VT60 goes one could say you would see 0.003 to 97.0 (maybe 144.0) w/in one picture mode. Whereas with the F8500 reading between the lines of the the mentioned review and other posts its 'deepest blacks' of 0.020 cd/m2 are when you calibrate to a 120 cd/m2 brightness which tells me that yes, the F8500 can go brighter but if you're trying to achieve deep blacks you're stuck around 120 cd/m2 max and given a similar desire for deep blacks on the VT60 you can get 0.005 cd/m2 blacks at nearly the same brightness of 114cd/m2, thats 4x darker.

Am I missing something?

EDIT:
I'm not trying to start a X vs Y thread, I'm honestly just trying to figure out what these numbers mean when actually viewing the TV. Also, this isn't going into a cave, this'll be in my living room but I do have some pretty solid blackout curtains and most viewing will be in the evening/night so no generally no direct sunlight.

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post #2 of 5 Old 04-24-2013, 06:57 PM
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In the entire post you forgot to say one thing...what are you looking for out of the set...The numbers are a great thing to have, but if you dont know what you want out of the performance of the TV then the numebrs become just a jumble of nothing to you, becasue all you are doing is looking at numbers....

Do you need a TV thats bright or do you need something that is versitile?
Do you need a TV that gets deep blacks and gets fairly bright as well?
What type of setting will the TV go into? controlled\uncontrolled lighting?

Once you start to focus on what you need\want it makes things easier so that you can pay attention to the numbers that will the msot for you

Also, jsut as a heads up most of the numbers are from calibrated sets not basic modes, so sometime sin order to reach those numbers you would need to have your set calibrated with a meter.....
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post #3 of 5 Old 04-24-2013, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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You're totally right.

I am looking for a TV that will shine in a dim/dark room but won't be unbearable in a room with low lighting 'ok' is good enough, I'd rather compromise the bright viewing situation in favor of awesome dark-dim-low light situation.

I'm concerned that subjectively the delta in 'deep blacks' between the two is lets say 10% better on the Panasonic but the brights are 30% better on the Samsung even though the numbers seem to say the Panasonic is better in blacks as much as the Samsung is better in brights. In the latter case (both equally strong in their own strength) I'd pick the Panasonic, in the former its more of a toss up.

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post #4 of 5 Old 04-24-2013, 08:13 PM
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Form the soudns of it you are favoring "dark\dim" room performance over what is "low light"......While the Samsung does go brighter (yes at least to me this was noticeably brighter with only changing basic modes without making any signifigant other changes) The Panasonics have been rated to go a deeper black level. For you Id focus more on low light handeling than how bright a set will get. The brightness while attractive may not be needed\wanted. The Samsung IMO is trying to achive a middle ground where someone wasnts the blacks of a plasma while still getting the near brightness of an LCD. The Pansonics however will msot likely outperform in low light\dark room situations. How noticeable will the difference be? only your eyes will be able to tell that.

What Id do if I were you is go see the sets in person and get a remote and play around with the settings (Id also suggest load a USB up with some material as the feeds at most places are horrible).. This way you can get an idea at least of what the different sets can do.

If I had to guess though, Id say youd probably be more than happy with VT60\ZT60..Youll want to pay mroe attention to the MLL and shodow level detail than the brightnes as those will be more evident in low light\controlled lighting situations.....

.The reviews of the VT60 havent happened yet, most if not all reviewd ahve been for the EU models which may match, but could also be different. Chad should have a review out on the VT60 sometime after Wed. next week, then there is the shootout May 10th and 11th. The shootout is something I would HIGHLY recommend watching they will ahve the F8500. VT60 and ZT60 there so youll be able to get a better idea of what the alibrators think of how they perform against each other.

I know myself I am still looking at the Vt60 and the F8500, since the TV will go into a room that will get fairly bright (even with blinds drawn) how well the TV does in all situations is more important to me......

Again for some of the numebrs you see you ahve to rememebr that sets were calibrated to those levels, those may not be fully representing what you would see when you take it out of the box and watch it on some basic setting. The numbers allow you to know what the set is capable of if adjusted correctly.

Good luck with your search I know it can be daunting smile.gif
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post #5 of 5 Old 04-24-2013, 08:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Good points hitting on what I figured already and thanks for the heads up on the shootout in May which will hopefully shed some light (or lack thereof!) on matters, I think I can manage that much patience smile.gif. In the meantime I'll hunt down a store that has both and load up a USB dongle as you suggest.

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