Panasonic ZT60 first review - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 03:49 PM - Thread Starter
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http://www.avforums.com/reviews/Panasonic-TX-P60ZT65B-P60ZT60-ZT65-60-Inch-3D-Plasma-Television_525/Test_Results.html
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post #2 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 03:52 PM
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Kuro dethroned.
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post #3 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 04:07 PM
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"THE CHAMP is HERE! "

Black level @ 0.001 cd/m2 converted to FL = .00029

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post #4 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 04:22 PM
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I wonder if that makes letterbox bars disappear in a dark room with darker scenes?

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post #5 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I wonder if that makes letterbox bars disappear in a dark room with darker scenes?

I doubt it. The only other recent displays I've seen with MLL at this level are certain digital front projectors. In the case of projectors, the black bars were still visible in a dark room and you could even make hand shadow puppets on the screen when it was entirely black. But for very short fades to black, I think this will give you a very good illusion of complete black. Beyond a few seconds, your eyes will adjust and you'll see the glow. For the majority of content where there are brighter objects in the scene, this will likely give you the best black bars possible because of the crazy high ANSI contrast. Good stuff.
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post #6 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Kuro dethroned.

Might be a good time to get a good deal on ebay for a Kuro

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post #7 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 04:58 PM
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Does it beat the 500M?????

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post #8 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:04 PM
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Also, take a look at his VT50 review. He was able to get it lower in THX mode than anything reported on NA panels. EU panels are different. I'm not raining on a parade -- I actually ordered on -- tough bullet to bite given list plus taxes. I'm thinking the VT60 will give 90% of the ZT and you'll be able to get deals and price matched which will make it an unreal value.
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post #9 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by purplerain View Post

Does it beat the 500M?????

I think the 500M may have better levels:

.001 with an ~82 peak white in the ANSI.....

But not srue those numbers are valid. Hopefully a KURO owner or the like will come in.....
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post #10 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glashub View Post

Also, take a look at his VT50 review. He was able to get it lower in THX mode than anything reported on NA panels. EU panels are different.

This is something I might take note of, since this is an EU version, it may not perform the same as the NA set. We'll know soon enough however, but it's a good start for those looking at the ZT......

The only thing that is throwing me off is the ~53 white on the ANSI....that seems the lowest of the recently reviewed sets....
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post #11 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by winston9332 View Post

Kuro dethroned.

Yes, as expected (by me at least).
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post #12 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

This is something I might take note of, since this is an EU version, it may not perform the same as the NA set.

True, but this is encouraging.
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post #13 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:15 PM
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How does the brightness relate to the F8500?
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post #14 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

The only thing that is throwing me off is the ~53 white on the ANSI....that seems the lowest of the recently reviewed sets....

Was the ANSI test done in EBU mode?
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post #15 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post

True, but this is encouraging.

Very true wink.gif it shouldnt be that far "off"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

How does the brightness relate to the F8500?

This set can go much deeper as far as blacks go, but the F8500 can go brighter......

ANSI checkerboard from the same site:
F8500:
Black was ~.014cdm
White ~109
(Black optimizer off)
ZT60:
Black: ~.002cdm
White: ~53
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post #16 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fluxo View Post

Was the ANSI test done in EBU mode?

Hard to tell from what they are saying, but I believe so since the other modes tended to crush blacks......
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post #17 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:26 PM
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Wasn't he getting better MLL on the GT vs the VT65?

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post #18 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Very true wink.gif it shouldnt be that far "off"
This set can go much deeper as far as blacks go, but the F8500 can go brighter......

ANSI checkerboard from the same site:
F8500:
Black was ~.014cdm
White ~109
(Black optimizer off)
ZT60:
Black: ~.002cdm
White: ~53

That looks like the F8500 is twice as bright correct?
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post #19 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

Wasn't he getting better MLL on the GT vs the VT65?

GT60:
Black:~.002 cdm
White: ~93

VT60:
Black ~.006
White ~68

Remmeber not all of these sets were the same size so this could also impact the numbers.....
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post #20 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

That looks like the F8500 is twice as bright correct?

From the settings they chose to display yes, although the ZT is able to get brighter than shown, they didnt display those results....
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post #21 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

From the settings they chose to display yes, although the ZT is able to get brighter than shown, they didnt display those results....

Hmm...I wonder why they didn't. They must know this is going to be compared to the F8500.
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post #22 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizziwig View Post

I doubt it. The only other recent displays I've seen with MLL at this level are certain digital front projectors. In the case of projectors, the black bars were still visible in a dark room and you could even make hand shadow puppets on the screen when it was entirely black. But for very short fades to black, I think this will give you a very good illusion of complete black. Beyond a few seconds, your eyes will adjust and you'll see the glow. For the majority of content where there are brighter objects in the scene, this will likely give you the best black bars possible because of the crazy high ANSI contrast. Good stuff.

I think the more appropriate question is how bright must you set your bias/room lighting before the black bars disappear. I mean I can get my LCD to look like it's completely off if I have some lights on in the room. i'd love to get the effect with no lights on whatsoever, but i'd still be thrilled to get the effect dim lighting. I mean I've already installed the pot lights just to make watching on my old plasma bearable...

i'm starting to get sucked into the hype hear for sure. can't wait to hear some more reviews, and if everything being said is confirmed I might have to go for it.

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post #23 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Hmm...I wonder why they didn't. They must know this is going to be compared to the F8500.

probably because it ruined the picture. from what I read, the 'brighter' options crushed the blacks, so they went with the 'best' picture options rather than the brightest picture options.


the F8500 is/was on the top of my list. I convinced my friend to set up their display model in a dark room(all the other stores have theirs out in the open to show off the filter and how bright it is) so i'm going to check that out this week. I wish I didn't have to wait another month before the zt display models arrive. it's going to be a tough decision considering the bump in price, but it's twice as tough because I need a new tv asap, and i'm already waiting for the stock of F8500's to arrive, let alone another month for the zt's. I think I need to either be disappointed in the dark room performance of the F8500 or completely blown away by the zt's

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post #24 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

probably because it ruined the picture. from what I read, the 'brighter' options crushed the blacks, so they went with the 'best' picture options rather than the brightest picture options.


the F8500 is/was on the top of my list. I convinced my friend to set up their display model in a dark room(all the other stores have theirs out in the open to show off the filter and how bright it is) so i'm going to check that out this week. I wish I didn't have to wait another month before the zt display models arrive. it's going to be a tough decision considering the bump in price, but it's twice as tough because I need a new tv asap, and i'm already waiting for the stock of F8500's to arrive, let alone another month for the zt's. I think I need to either be disappointed in the dark room performance of the F8500 or completely blown away by the zt's

Yea my F8500 is going back tomorrow due to the brightness fluctuations. I am praying this firmware update will fix the issue. If it does I have a sneaky suspicion I will be ordering another. But with the review of the ZT up I was curious. I'm sorry. What does "crush the blacks" mean?
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post #25 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 06:25 PM
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Why does everyone get so excited about the sets blacker blacks, but not seem to mind about the greyer whites? That seems pretty unexceptable.
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post #26 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Thelt2000x View Post

Yea my F8500 is going back tomorrow due to the brightness fluctuations. I am praying this firmware update will fix the issue. If it does I have a sneaky suspicion I will be ordering another. But with the review of the ZT up I was curious. I'm sorry. What does "crush the blacks" mean?

I think fluctuating blacks will be completely acceptable for me. I still prefer the look of my old CRT RPTV because it gets dark for dark scenes. but the blacks get pretty darn bright when the rest of the screen does, I just don't notice it.

crush the blacks means while it may still get dark, it doesn't have any detail in it. it's not good enough to simply go black, it needs to be able to show several shades of grey just slightly above black at the same time so we can see what's happening in those shadows.

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post #27 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 07:08 PM
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Why does everyone get so excited about the sets blacker blacks, but not seem to mind about the greyer whites? That seems pretty unexceptable.

for me personally, because the only thing I've found disappointing about ALL TV's I've bought since my RPTV is that blacks aren't black. I was one of those ppl that was literally pissed off that CRT's were dieing and lcd's becoming so popular.

I guess since our eyes make everything relative, it's a lot easier to trick my eyes into thinking bright grey is actually white as long as I don't have something bright white right beside the tv. compared to how difficult it is to trick my eyes into thinking dark grey is black when I watch movies in a completely darkened room surrounded by 'black'.
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post #28 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 07:09 PM
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I think fluctuating blacks will be completely acceptable for me. I still prefer the look of my old CRT RPTV because it gets dark for dark scenes. but the blacks get pretty darn bright when the rest of the screen does, I just don't notice it.

crush the blacks means while it may still get dark, it doesn't have any detail in it. it's not good enough to simply go black, it needs to be able to show several shades of grey just slightly above black at the same time so we can see what's happening in those shadows.

OK so in order for this TV to not "crush the blacks" it can't be that bright....hmm....I never noticed this with the F8500. Although I am sure it was there. I had that thing bright!
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post #29 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 07:13 PM
 
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for me personally, because the only thing I've found disappointing about ALL TV's I've bought since my RPTV is that blacks aren't black. I was one of those ppl that was literally pissed off that CRT's were dieing and lcd's becoming so popular.

I guess since our eyes make everything relative, it's a lot easier to trick my eyes into thinking bright grey is actually white as long as I don't have something bright white right beside the tv. compared to how difficult it is to trick my eyes into thinking dark grey is black when I watch movies in a completely darkened room surrounded by 'black'.
I like how you phrased that. When the pupils expand to allow more light in, black level differences are more noticeable versus whites where the pupils are more contracted.
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post #30 of 257 Old 04-28-2013, 07:33 PM
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"THE CHAMP is HERE! "

Black level @ 0.001 cd/m2 converted to FL = .00029
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