Are Panasonic pro monitors still a way to go for value/performance for plasma? - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 05-01-2013, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
I have a TH-50PH10UK from several years back that I still really like. For kicks, if I wanted to get something new/different, are Panasonic pro monitors still big for bang for the buck?

Or, the tweakability of regular "TV's" has caught up to the pro monitors for ISF calibration?

I'm not big on displays, and I took a quick look at the 1st two pages of this forum, and I got overwhelmed really fast. smile.gif

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 05-01-2013, 10:12 PM
Advanced Member
 
Moonchilde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 104
I was actually just looking into them recently. I'd say no. They're more expensive, you don't get 3D, they're 6xxxx gradations (on par with the S60, which has the same count) have a mess of hookups you don't need, only have 2 point white balance, and I don't recall seeing the CMS options even the most basic S60 has. I'd say, they're like, really expensive S60's. Ones that cost 3x as much. Oh, and they're only 3D ready, and the 3D IR receiver costs about $500.

There's no guarantee of their motion resolution or their input lag. No one reviews them. They're also made by a completely different company within Panasonic and not the same as who makes the consumer models.

However, seeing as you had one of the earlier models, how did they handle? I'm quite curious.
Moonchilde is offline  
post #3 of 15 Old 05-02-2013, 10:32 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
The earlier pro models were actually preferred over the consumer models, because they had more controls to be used with ISF calibration, they were cheaper, and more configurable. (You could buy only the cards you needed for the type(s) of inputs you had.) That was the beg of the time when the gov't mandated that consumer models had to include a tuner, so that was some of the difference in cost. Pro models didn't come with an HD OTA tuner. Plus, and this mattered to me: the pro models were manufactured in Japan after the consumer models were moved to Mexico. But I just looked, and mine is from Aug 2007 or so. Quite a while ago. smile.gif

But yeah, seems like the tide has turned, and the consumer models are the way to go these days.

What was sad, was that as the enthusiasts discovered that the pro models were the way to go, and cheaper too, Panasonic started jacking up their price. And that was the beg of the end for them I guess.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471015/best-55-panasonic-plasma-for-picture-quality

smile.gif

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #4 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 02:19 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,212
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

The earlier pro models were actually preferred over the consumer models, because they had more controls to be used with ISF calibration, they were cheaper, and more configurable. (You could buy only the cards you needed for the type(s) of inputs you had.) That was the beg of the time when the gov't mandated that consumer models had to include a tuner, so that was some of the difference in cost. Pro models didn't come with an HD OTA tuner. Plus, and this mattered to me: the pro models were manufactured in Japan after the consumer models were moved to Mexico. But I just looked, and mine is from Aug 2007 or so. Quite a while ago. smile.gif

But yeah, seems like the tide has turned, and the consumer models are the way to go these days.

What was sad, was that as the enthusiasts discovered that the pro models were the way to go, and cheaper too, Panasonic started jacking up their price. And that was the beg of the end for them I guess.


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1471015/best-55-panasonic-plasma-for-picture-quality

smile.gif
I wish I could buy a vt60 without tuner, without 3d, without camera, without smart features, without speakers, and only one hdmi input and save the cost of all that stuff. I don't even think it's possible to use a TV's tuner here anymore. all the cable companies require you to use their box, it's quite annoying.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
post #5 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 02:29 PM
Member
 
SirMaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 101
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I wish I could buy a vt60 without tuner, without 3d, without camera, without smart features, without speakers, and only one hdmi input and save the cost of all that stuff. I don't even think it's possible to use a TV's tuner here anymore. all the cable companies require you to use their box, it's quite annoying.

You can use the tuner OTA. That's how most people use it. ATSC isn't going ot change any time soon. Also, Time Warner doesn't encrypt my ClearQAM via cable yet.

Building a TV without those features would cost the same or likely more for them to have to introduce a separate SKU to manufacture.

The camera / speakes / tuner / wifi / hdmi ports are all cheap hardware. Likely around $100 total or so. The 3D / smart features are all software and wouldn't save any money to remove since they have already been developed.

The biggest savings would be to exclude the included 3D glasses probably. All in total I couldn't see them taking more than $200 off to remove all that, and that's if it wouldn't have cost them more to manufacture 2 different models.
SirMaster is offline  
post #6 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Special Member
 
Kevin C Brown's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Santa Clara, CA
Posts: 3,428
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 25
^^^

I would agree with you except for the fact that when a manufacturer adds anything, whether it costs them much money or not, they increase the price. Sort of like the extra features, whether they cost money or not, are simply an excuse for them to raise the price.

So what I'm trying to say is, more than likely Panasonic is making a pretty hefty profit on the vt60 because of all the needless features they added. Right, not because they actually cost them much to add though.

Hopefully that makes sense. smile.gif

If it's not worth waiting until the last minute to do, then it's not worth doing.

KevinVision 7.1 ... Something old and something new :-)

Kevin C Brown is offline  
post #7 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 03:32 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Ph8te's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,404
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked: 276
The marketing and promotion of the products probably adds more than said features...Not sure on the "hefty" profit looking at thier current financial status, Im sure there is a numebr they need to make, but I think youd be surprised on how little the "fluff" you speak of actually adds to the price. In most cases they would probably charge you mroe for a TV without the stuff, due to the limited quanitity they would sell......
Ph8te is online now  
post #8 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 03:42 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,212
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by SirMaster View Post

You can use the tuner OTA. That's how most people use it. ATSC isn't going ot change any time soon. Also, Time Warner doesn't encrypt my ClearQAM via cable yet.

Building a TV without those features would cost the same or likely more for them to have to introduce a separate SKU to manufacture.

The camera / speakes / tuner / wifi / hdmi ports are all cheap hardware. Likely around $100 total or so. The 3D / smart features are all software and wouldn't save any money to remove since they have already been developed.

The biggest savings would be to exclude the included 3D glasses probably. All in total I couldn't see them taking more than $200 off to remove all that, and that's if it wouldn't have cost them more to manufacture 2 different models.
if it was build to order I would agree. i'm thinking more along of the lines of a 'pro model' vt60 that is still mass produced, just without those things. for all intents and purposes it's just a 'display' and nothing more. for my needs, that's all I use anyway,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin C Brown View Post

^^^

I would agree with you except for the fact that when a manufacturer adds anything, whether it costs them much money or not, they increase the price. Sort of like the extra features, whether they cost money or not, are simply an excuse for them to raise the price.

So what I'm trying to say is, more than likely Panasonic is making a pretty hefty profit on the vt60 because of all the needless features they added. Right, not because they actually cost them much to add though.

Hopefully that makes sense. smile.gif

that's my thinking as well. maybe the vt60 is already pretty lean, likely it is not. while the cost to add such things as 3d may be minimal, the perceived value is substantial. it's a little harder to see now as pretty much all sets have 3d and smart features, but not too long ago you could find two identical panels, one with smart features and 3d, one without, and the price difference between them was several hundred dollars.

the closest I could go by right now is perhaps the difference between st60 and vt60. is there really 800bux worth of hardware upgrades? if i'm not mistaken is the the same panel no? better processor, which probably wouldn't be needed if there were no smart features, 3d, etc. it's not always JUST the software, sometimes you can streamline the whole package as well. I think it's kinda funny my new tv might have a faster CPU than my HTPC... depending on what's really needed for JUST the video, that could be 100bux or more in savings just on that.

bottom line is I feel like i'm being forced to pay for a lot of extras I don't want, and in many cases can't even use if I wanted to. it's like when you want that one channel and your provider will only bundle it in with a bunch of other non-related ones that suck. or if you're a 90's kid, like buying the whole CD for that one song you like. did it cost them any more to put 12 more songs on the CD? no, not in manufacturing costs, but you better believe they'll charge a lot more for the full album than the single.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
post #9 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 06:41 PM
Advanced Member
 
Moonchilde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 104
The VT and ST have different panels, the VT has a different filter and it has a different red phosphor. Other than that, the hardware is a tad different based on size and such, but for example, the power board is the same.
Moonchilde is offline  
post #10 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 07:10 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,212
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonchilde View Post

The VT and ST have different panels, the VT has a different filter and it has a different red phosphor. Other than that, the hardware is a tad different based on size and such, but for example, the power board is the same.

oh, my mistake then. i thought the panel from last years vt was used by both.

nevertheless. there are some feature that are less than useless for me, so even 10bux savings would be appreciated. or even if it's not about savings, i mean removing the speakers should make the tv a little sleeker right? removing the wifi and smart features should make it a little more stable? i'm one of those guys that likes as little computing as possible. i'm not looking forward to the day i need to install anti-virus software on my tv... haha.

i just want a display. nothing more.

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
post #11 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 08:08 PM
Member
 
seanmcd72's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I wish I could buy a vt60 without tuner, without 3d, without camera, without smart features, without speakers, and only one hdmi input and save the cost of all that stuff. I don't even think it's possible to use a TV's tuner here anymore. all the cable companies require you to use their box, it's quite annoying.
That's my dream set right there!

Samsung LN46A650 TV, Denon AVR-2113ci, Polk Audio TL350 speakers, SVSOUND PB10 subwoofer

seanmcd72 is offline  
post #12 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 09:04 PM
AVS Special Member
 
fierce_gt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 3,212
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 244 Post(s)
Liked: 581
Quote:
Originally Posted by seanmcd72 View Post

That's my dream set right there!

if we're dreaming, let's do that with the ZT tongue.gif

Displays: Samsung PN64F8500/JVC X35
AVR: Pioneer VSX-1018AH, 5.1 audio
Sources: HTPC(Mediabrowser), PS3, XBOX360, Wii, Sony DVP-CX995V
Control: Harmony One
fierce_gt is offline  
post #13 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 09:41 PM
Member
 
vic_0002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 124
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

I wish I could buy a vt60 without tuner, without 3d, without camera, without smart features, without speakers, and only one hdmi input and save the cost of all that stuff. I don't even think it's possible to use a TV's tuner here anymore. all the cable companies require you to use their box, it's quite annoying.

Over on the other board, the Panasonic insider hinted that the idea of a top of the line model (like a VT or ZT) without speakers or a TV tuner was being discussed for next year...

I hope it really happens.
vic_0002 is offline  
post #14 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 09:55 PM
Advanced Member
 
pcdo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 701
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The biggest problem with the professional Panasonic monitors is the lack of AR filter. They also seem to be 1 year technology behind the consumer TVs. Otherwise they have a nice minimalistic style and are built like tanks. My dad has a 65PF10UK and that thing is a beast.
pcdo is offline  
post #15 of 15 Old 05-03-2013, 10:02 PM
Advanced Member
 
Moonchilde's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 557
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by fierce_gt View Post

oh, my mistake then. i thought the panel from last years vt was used by both.

nevertheless. there are some feature that are less than useless for me, so even 10bux savings would be appreciated. or even if it's not about savings, i mean removing the speakers should make the tv a little sleeker right? removing the wifi and smart features should make it a little more stable? i'm one of those guys that likes as little computing as possible. i'm not looking forward to the day i need to install anti-virus software on my tv... haha.

i just want a display. nothing more.

I can actually answer some of this because I've disassembled it a bit.

Removing the speakers wouldn't slim the design in the slightest. For example, the "woofer" speaker is mounted right next to the power supply. The power supply has caps, power coils, and such, that make the board actually taller than the back speaker. The speaker faces outwards, towards the wall, which is actually kinda bad design as bass frequencies will get soaked up by the walls.

The "tweeter" speakers are mounted right along the metal panel. Terrible design choice. They have to actually push sound through metal, printed circuit boards, and the plastic bezel. Oh, and there are no speaker grills, so you'll get tons of frequency loss this way. However, I believe on the VT and ZT series, it appears the tweeters are mounted against a grill on the sides of the set and not the bottom. I believe this is like, maybe half an inch or so added to the left and right side width of the display, and as far as depth, they'll still be shorter than the PCB's mounted on the back.

I've operated the TV without the WIFI dongle. No difference.

Smart features? Maybe I'll give ya that, as it seems Panny's design is a single processor to push all the image processing and handle smart features. In this case, I would agree 100% I'd rather all that be dedicated to image processing instead of Smart apps I'll never, ever use.

You're scared of AV on your TV? I'm terrified of the day TV manufacturers decide to move our TV's to the DLC model. What's that? You want to have red control options in your menu? $50 for saturation. Oh, you want red tint options, too? $50, but we're developing that to be released a month later, to increase hype longevity of our displays! Next month, we'll give you a contrast DLC menu item!!
Moonchilde is offline  
Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off