Which display wins the shootout? Let's have some fun. Make your predictions here. - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

I thought this was 100% fixed. This just makes my decision more difficult. lol

users are reporting to not see them, but the calibrators did, so it may only come up in certain situations. It wouldnt surprise me to see further firmwares to correct these issues (that can be fixed) in the future......They didnt go into detail where they saw it however, so who knows, but those who were very unhappy about the pops have checked scenes and hocky games and have not seen them. Since the calibrators go over eerything with a fine tooth comb, if they are still there I would expect them to find them....
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post #452 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Anyone know the black level that d-nice can achieve on the 60 inch 9th gen kuros?

0.0003 and lower.

I was surprised to hear that some 141's benefited from the lower MLL like the 500m and 101 did. I didn't know that. D-Nice can you comment more on this? Were any other models made in that one factory? And to be clear, the reason why the 500m and 101FD achieved lower blacks is because better implementation of the filter? I remember reading something like that.

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post #453 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Anyone know the black level that d-nice can achieve on the 60 inch 9th gen kuros?

I have seen .0003 posted for 60 inch 9G Kuro, but I would let D-Nice confirm what he can achieve .
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post #454 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

Yes i would say they would be equal. The VT60 i saw at BB looked really good.

Have you seen the Cnet review?

http://reviews.cnet.com/flat-panel-tvs/panasonic-tc-p55vt60/4505-6482_7-35567332.html

He mentions the VT60 has "slightly deeper blacks" but the 111FD still does a few things better. I didn't see any measurement that indicated better blacks. I only see the 0.002 full screen black.

The reviewer states that the vt60 displayed better blacks than the sharp elite during the dark scenes in harry potter. I smell bs... The sharp elite has been measured at .0004, while the vt60 and zt60 measured .001 at the shootout.

Plus, he is giving 4 out of 5 stars to a display that he claims produces the best pq he's ever seen, yet he stated that it is a considerable improvement over the st60, which scored 5 out of 5 stars.

Too many contradictions in the review imo.
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post #455 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 02:55 PM
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CNET takes value into consideration. Hence the 4 star. I do think plasmas have better shadow detail than the Elites so I am not surprised at his comment. CNET didn't give actual data right? Plus these measurements all have too many variables. I have given up on comparing measurements be tween different sources.
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post #456 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavidHir View Post

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Pops are fixed. Not sure about floating blacks, but owners don't seem to think it's much of an issue. I think the real issue was pops.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Thanks...did you see any of this color banding be reported? D-Nice said he saw some of it on faces or something?

Not at all Dave, never saw it. Nobody has ever mentioned it nor has it been commented on in any review. D-Nice is the first to mention it. Weird. We didn't ser it at Roberts store either.

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post #457 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:11 PM
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makaveddie81, you're forgetting the elite is an LCD. LED zones can't do too much imo. I think plasmas handle very dark scenes better.

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post #458 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

makaveddie81, you're forgetting the elite is an LCD. LED zones can't do too much imo. I think plasmas handle very dark scenes better.

good point. so i guess the elite is darker on an all black screen but not when there is actual content on the screen.
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post #459 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Yes. It was also stated that they are working on fixing floating blacks and brightness pops. They've already issues a firmware update that makes it better, but not fixed yet.

I thought this was 100% fixed. This just makes my decision more difficult. lol

Just wait a little for the fixes and the price drop. You won't have to play beta tester that way and the savings will buy you a calibration that sticks

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post #460 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

makaveddie81, you're forgetting the elite is an LCD. LED zones can't do too much imo. I think plasmas handle very dark scenes better.

I only wish a plasma could do blacks like my lowly Sharp Elite.

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post #461 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

good point. so i guess the elite is darker on an all black screen but not when there is actual content on the screen.

blacker doesn't = better. it's possible the elite is still darker but it crushes all the details.
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post #462 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

makaveddie81, you're forgetting the elite is an LCD. LED zones can't do too much imo. I think plasmas handle very dark scenes better.

good point. so i guess the elite is darker on an all black screen but not when there is actual content on the screen.

No, Saprano is wrong.

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post #463 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 04:28 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saprano View Post

0.0003 and lower.

I was surprised to hear that some 141's benefited from the lower MLL like the 500m and 101 did. I didn't know that. D-Nice can you comment more on this? Were any other models made in that one factory? And to be clear, the reason why the 500m and 101FD achieved lower blacks is because better implementation of the filter? I remember reading something like that.
A Pioneer engineer provided him with some proprietary software that he has used, through trial and error, to get better blacks on every model if I'm not mistaken.

And I'm not subtly suggesting that this is a good argument for keeping a 9G 50" panel, with all the benefits the new TVs can provide. smile.gif
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post #464 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

This is an excellent point. Though if they would have scaled their products properly (keeping the existing st60's excellent performance), the ZT should have at least equalled 9.5 stock Kuros. The floor established by the st60 warranted a ceiling that called for the 9.5 gen Kuro being equalled. I think this is why so many people believed panasonics high end display would finally equal the Kuro.

agreed

the ST60 is either underpriced...or their other offerings are overpriced...or both..lol

30-40% for the other TV's...seriously?



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post #465 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I only wish a plasma could do blacks like my lowly Sharp Elite.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2


LOL....there have been a couple of full array LED's that had low black levels...the Sony XBR comes to mind as well

But...there is more to the story than the lowest black level



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post #466 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 04:54 PM
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Did anyone at the shootout ask if the pansonics measured/tracked the same with APL patterns as well?

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post #467 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:30 PM
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during the calibrators q&a at the end of day 2 they were asked which set they would choose for best picture quality for "their" needs/rooms etc. and they definitely gave an answer.
i'm done with cheering for any set so i won't repeat it here. you know where to look for it if you need it to make any decision but the reality is you know your situation and preference the best
so maybe a calibrator's pick isn't the same as yours. all top three displays are FANTASTIC this year. you should smile from ear to ear if you are lucky enough to get one.

congrats to plasma in 2013!!!!!!
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post #468 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:39 PM
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I think SiGGy is wondering how color tracks using APL patterns (Average Picture Level) to see if color stays accurate at various APLs. If that is what he's asking, then the answer would most likely be a no... all PDPs can't display reference color at all APLs AFAIK.
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post #469 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I only wish a plasma could do blacks like my lowly Sharp Elite.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 2

Your wish has come true ,in a way, both my 50" and 60" plasmas do BETTER blacks than your sharp.
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post #470 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Thank you for the complement. As always we do this for you the consumer.

Regarding the numbers.... you guys are so locked into the numbers that you are also forgetting a few things. 0.003cd/m2 can be anything from 0.00300 to 0.00344 (you can add as many zeros and fours to these numbers) and still be rounded to 0.003cd/m2. When you punch the additional decimal places into your converters how does that change the output? Once you understand that, add in panel variance. Get it????

Since the chip in your meter seems to be rounding up to three significant figures, 0.0025 to 0.0029 also will yield 0.003. biggrin.gif

EDIT: To be consistent with your example, all values between 0.00245 to 0.00299 with as many zeros or nines (or for that matter any digit) added will yield 0.003.

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post #471 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:45 PM
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Originally Posted by bosng View Post

during the calibrators q&a at the end of day 2 they were asked which set they would choose for best picture quality for "their" needs/rooms etc. and they definitely gave an answer.
i'm done with cheering for any set so i won't repeat it here. you know where to look for it if you need it to make any decision but the reality is you know your situation and preference the best
so maybe a calibrator's pick isn't the same as yours. all top three displays are FANTASTIC this year. you should smile from ear to ear if you are lucky enough to get one.

congrats to plasma in 2013!!!!!!

I believe they all chose Panasonics correct? is this considered "cheering" now? Its already been stated a few times. As they said themselves what works for them and what works for a different person may be different. You cant really go wrong wth and of the 3 PDP panels that they had their...
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post #472 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

A Pioneer engineer provided him with some proprietary software that he has used, through trial and error, to get better blacks on every model if I'm not mistaken.

And I'm not subtly suggesting that this is a good argument for keeping a 9G 50" panel, with all the benefits the new TVs can provide. smile.gif

I'm not talking about D-Nice's software.

At the shootout he mentioned some 141's were just like 101FD's and 500m's.

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post #473 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by bosng View Post

during the calibrators q&a at the end of day 2 they were asked which set they would choose for best picture quality for "their" needs/rooms etc. and they definitely gave an answer.
i'm done with cheering for any set so i won't repeat it here. you know where to look for it if you need it to make any decision but the reality is you know your situation and preference the best
so maybe a calibrator's pick isn't the same as yours. all top three displays are FANTASTIC this year. you should smile from ear to ear if you are lucky enough to get one.

congrats to plasma in 2013!!!!!!

D-Nice definitely said the Panasonic was his choice because he watched TV in a dark room but they also said the Samsung was a better all-round TV. it all depends on how you watch.

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post #474 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 06:05 PM
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Good to see the VT60 winning hands down over any other competitor.

Any other point of view is obviously biased.

Boom
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Originally Posted by saprano View Post

I'm not talking about D-Nice's software.

At the shootout he mentioned some 141's were just like 101FD's and 500m's.
Yea, that was during a bit of back-and-forth between Robert. I'll let him comment on that. All I'm confirming is that he has stated previously that the software/methods benefit ALL Kuros, regardless of where the sets were manufactured.
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post #476 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 06:12 PM
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Good to see the VT60 winning hands down over any other competitor.

Any other point of view is obviously biased.




But since youve made a comment like this beforeeeee
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post #477 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 06:21 PM
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But since youve made a comment like this beforeeeee

waskley wabbit! dont do it!!!

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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

I think SiGGy is wondering how color tracks using APL patterns (Average Picture Level) to see if color stays accurate at various APLs. If that is what he's asking, then the answer would most likely be a no... all PDPs can't display reference color at all APLs AFAIK.

On a related note, last night it was mentioned that the Panasonics should be calibrated with 10-18% non APL patterns and the Samsung F8500 with APL patterns. They didn't go into details.
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post #479 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 06:26 PM
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I've been real happy with the results of 10% windows and my VT50.

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post #480 of 1489 Old 05-12-2013, 06:27 PM
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On a related note, last night it was mentioned that the Panasonics should be calibrated with 10-18% non APL patterns and the Samsung F8500 with APL patterns. They didn't go into details.

I heard that also. I wish they had mentioned what size window was used for the APL and actually what APL value was used.

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