Which display wins the shootout? Let's have some fun. Make your predictions here. - Page 25 - AVS Forum
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post #721 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

In my voting, I ended up choosing the VT over the ZT by a hair. Money was no object since I'm not going to buy either one—Iwas just judging quality. The extra bit of brightness made the difference in the VTs favor IMO, because otherwise those two HDTVs are so similar, it's amazing to think that they use two different panels.

Thanks for the feedback Mark.
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post #722 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post


So in your opinion the new bonding process for the ZT was not a difference maker ?

Correct. In practice, the two HDTV panels looked almost identical; it's difficult or impossible to see what, if any, advantage the ZT's fabrication process conferred. Seems to me that with the ZT60, one is paying a premium for a stand made out of solid piece of aluminum.


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post #723 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:05 PM
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Did they talk about the rise in mll for the f8500 in Film mode? David katzmaier measured an increase from 0.002 fl to 0.004 when Film mode was turned on. Hopefully they fix that cause 0.004 fl is not impressive at all compared to my KRP-500m.


"Unfortunately, you do have to trade away true film cadence if you want the absolute deepest black levels the F8500 can deliver. When I switched the Film Mode setting from Off to Cinema Smooth, those inky blacks got slightly brighter, -(from 0.002 fL to 0.004, if you're counting). "
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post #724 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post

Correct. In practice, the two HDTV panels looked almost identical; it's difficult or impossible to see what any advantage the ZT's fabrication process conferred. Seems to me that with the ZT60, one is paying a premium for a stand made out of solid piece of aluminum.

Thanks for that feedback certainly a disappointment for Panasonic and potential buyers

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post #725 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Remember, once upon a time you also just joined.

I remember when I first joined. HDTV was just a future wish, DVD players cost hundreds of dollars...

In college I learned the two answers to any question my boss ever asks. "It depends..." and "Given enough time and money..."
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post #726 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:17 PM
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I'm still freakin torn on my zt60 pre-order. I was going to move the 65vt50 in the bedroom, get a 65zt60 and sit on those for a couple of years while either OLED comes around, or hell even if plasma is still around.

The ZT did not live up to what I was hoping (brighter and darker then my vt50) so now I really need to figure out what I'm going to do. Do I wait a year, see if panny puts in a bigger power supply and makes a brighter picture? I guess I will pay attention to the brightness on my vt50 over the next couple of weeks to see what I think.

Also I have owned 3 Sammy PDP a c8000, D8000 and e8000. Had a lot of problems so swore off Sammy. But sounds like they made a great one this year

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post #727 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by arenaman View Post

I've got the 64.5 inch Samasonic ZT70G8500 on pre order already biggrin.gif


Good one brother, we need some humor around. smile.gif
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post #728 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

''Please also take note that the panel of experts selected the VT60/ZT60 as their personal choice. But even their choice was only a slight preference. As DeWayne put it to me.... “To me and just for example, if the VT60 is a 10 the F8500 is a 9 as I don’t care about panel brightness above 30fL”
This post is insulting. It's a sales pitch because we, the calibrators, chose the Panasonics over the Samsung??? Sounds like you just don't like our preferences because they differ from yours.

Regarding your previous post responding to my questions.... The Samsung LCD had very good color. However, it has issues with motion resolution, black levels, off axis viewing and few other items that I simply chose to ignore instead of talk about. It was not better than any PDP display at the shootout.


I challenge you to put together a shootout on your own since you feel as if Robert's was jaded.
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post #729 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by gene9p View Post

''Please also take note that the panel of experts selected the VT60/ZT60 as their personal choice. But even their choice was only a slight preference. As DeWayne put it to me.... “To me and just for example, if the VT60 is a 10 the F8500 is a 9 as I don’t care about panel brightness above 30fL”


and there's the sales pitch...gotta push those panny's they loaded up on and wanted to win...

next time just ask me..I'll tell ya the best one..LOL

It might be time to make a more neutral 3rd party shootout where sales and preferences don't come into play

The post I quoted implies that DeWayne (aka D-Nice) voted based on some concern about "moving inventory" of a particular brand.

Let me just say that (a) as an uninterested third party, I find that notion offensive (b) it's not even remotely true.

Back to your regularly scheduled cheering, discussion and miscellaneous fanboy-ism.

There is no difference in HDMI cables. If you can see the picture without visible dropouts or sparklies, the cable is working at 100%. No other cable will display a better version of that picture. You're simply wrong if you think there is a better digital cable than one that is already working.
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post #730 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:24 PM
 
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I must echo the sentiment of the last two posts.
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post #731 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:28 PM
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From the posts that I have seen from D nice throughout the years I am 100% sure that he is not interested in any sort of sales pitch. He is a calibrator ( prob the best) and he will calibrate any TV you need him too regardless of who the manufacturer is. DeWayne was one of the main reasons I spent a Saturday night watching my Ipad instead of doing something else because of his expertise. Most people on here respect his opinion, but every once in a while someone has to try to chase him away.
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post #732 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sumoHD View Post

What I think he is saying is a stock 500m with a stock zt60 would be fair....
Here is something you don't know...The 500M's brightness control was set too high (+2 instead of +1) at Friday's demo. Its MLL would have read the stock MLL or higher for that model. Yet, everyone I spoke to that night still said the Kuro had better black levels. Saturday's demo had the correct brightness. Of course people still thought the Kuro was better.
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with all do respect you have a hell of rep in here and everywhere but you are also a pio fan boy at list that's the way it comes out listen all sets are great for my personal opinion what samsung panasonic has accomplish it is revolutionary those plasmas at a third of a kuro in my eyes are revolutionary so there is no looser here and best of all winner is us the consumer just be happy that we all can share this wealth and not just the 1% so please let stop this nonsense and enjoy what 2013 is bringing wich is real extremely good and d nice like i said i don't mean any disrespect thanks for helping us and educate us with pdps on the shootout and everybody that participated ps I just went to mht and got the 60zt for the 60vt price for any body that is interested
If I'm a Pioneer fanboy, why did I replace my 4280HD with a ST60? I don't give a damn about a brand. I go with what is best. Whenever and whom ever makes a display that is better than the other displays I have in my house will get my money. Until then, my other Kuros will remain where they stay. Feel free to call me a fanboy for that.
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post #733 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by vinnie97 View Post

I must echo the sentiment of the last two posts.

As do I.
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post #734 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:34 PM
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So it's well touted tht 30fl is max in isf day for zt...what about custom mode?


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post #735 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:35 PM
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I further echo the next batch of posts that came after the original 2 biggrin.gif


funny, I thought most people were complaining about crowd bias and blind taste tests etc Pre-Shootout. Seems the pendulum (guillotine?) has swung the other way now.
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post #736 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

So it's well touted tht 30fl is max in isf day for zt...what about custom mode?


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isf mode is based off custom unless something changed this year

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post #737 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

yeah, that ST60 might be one of those tv's they made too well for the price. Amazing that its so cheap in a 65" version and still would likely beat out a lot of the competition.
If there was a best bang for the buck sector, this would be the winner, ST60.
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post #738 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:38 PM
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I have another relatively noob question, can someone please explain to me what a bright room actually is? I watch plenty in the day time, but I always close the blinds, though they're not blackout curtains or anything like that, just normal blinds so it's still daytime but not exactly bright. Sometimes I'll watch with the lights on as well, though I never have the lights in a position where they can reflect directly off the TV. At that kind of lighting would there be a difference, or does bright room basically mean no blinds or anything to stop the light?
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post #739 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post


Here is something you don't know...The 500M's brightness control was set too high (+2 instead of +1) at Friday's demo. Its MLL would have read the stock MLL or higher for that model. Yet, everyone I spoke to that night still said the Kuro had better black levels. Saturday's demo had the correct brightness. Of course people still thought the Kuro was better.
If I'm a Pioneer fanboy, why did I replace my 4280HD with a ST60? I don't give a damn about a brand. I go with what is best. Whenever and whom ever makes a display that is better than the other displays I have in my house will get my money. Until then, my other Kuros will remain where they stay. Feel free to call me a fanboy for that.

Not everyone. If you recall, I spotted the error and pointed out the consequences. I didn't know the setting on the Kuro was off, I just knew I could see a static dithering pattern, and that my camera picked it up as well. Based on what my camera captured, technically, the ZT60's blacks were darker on Friday night, but obviously now there is an explanation for that. The Kuro still beat the F8500's black levels that night.

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post #740 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:47 PM
 
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So the Kuro was actually at ~0.0005 on Friday night. No surprise it was still the winner. wink.gif
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post #741 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:51 PM
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I wonder how the ST 60 would have scored if it was in the shootout. Does anyone know how much brighter the F8500is compared to the ST60. I'll also assume the ST60 filter isn't as good as the 8500 but I don't know
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post #742 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:52 PM
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I wish they would include input lag as a category in future tests. Everyone is obsessed with black levels but the top 3 TVs here are all within a hair of each other in that category but they might 2-3 times as much input lag when compared.
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post #743 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by sheshechic View Post

Ken, it's a tie then -eh? LOL wink.gif

No, actually it's a win for the 8500, but you knew that.

IMO, based on what I've seen, it's a win for all 3 panels. All great pictures.

And a win for you too Ken. Congratulations.

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post #744 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:53 PM
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Originally Posted by elbobo19 View Post

I wish they would include input lag as a category in future tests. Everyone is obsessed with black levels but the top 3 TVs here are all within a hair of each other in that category but they might 2-3 times as much input lag when compared.

They discussed this during the shootout zt and vt were FAR superior when it came to input lag or lack thereof


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post #745 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:57 PM
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Originally Posted by sumoHD View Post

Don't replay don't have to this is the problem I guess ignorance is everywhere read the post like I wrote it and then comment
I did read the post, you called D-Nice a pio-fan boy, that is what I was referring to,......For someone that is new, that is a bold statement form a well respected member of MANY forums......

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Originally Posted by andy sullivan View Post

Remember, once upon a time you also just joined.

I ahve no problem with new members the more the better as far as I am concerned, but I call into question when that member calls someone out as a fanboy of anything within thier 1st few posts......
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

I would extend that ? to the ST60, there should be more of a differentiation between lines imo
agreed smile.gif
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Originally Posted by yaomizzle View Post

So it's well touted tht 30fl is max in isf day for zt...what about custom mode?


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I believe D-Nice answered this earlier in the thread in reply to one of my posts)....
Quote:
Originally Posted by thisrandomguy View Post

I have another relatively noob question, can someone please explain to me what a bright room actually is? I watch plenty in the day time, but I always close the blinds, though they're not blackout curtains or anything like that, just normal blinds so it's still daytime but not exactly bright. Sometimes I'll watch with the lights on as well, though I never have the lights in a position where they can reflect directly off the TV. At that kind of lighting would there be a difference, or does bright room basically mean no blinds or anything to stop the light?

A bright room can mean many things, you can have blinds and still have a bright room....I think you've answered your won queestion about your situation (not exactly bright) wink.gif .....In your current set up if you have a problem with reflections or the picture washing out than the ZT60 or F8500 may be better, if not then the VT60 is an excellent performer as well...
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post #746 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post

Here is something you don't know...The 500M's brightness control was set too high (+2 instead of +1) at Friday's demo. Its MLL would have read the stock MLL or higher for that model. Yet, everyone I spoke to that night still said the Kuro had better black levels. Saturday's demo had the correct brightness. Of course people still thought the Kuro was better.
If I'm a Pioneer fanboy, why did I replace my 4280HD with a ST60? I don't give a damn about a brand. I go with what is best. Whenever and whom ever makes a display that is better than the other displays I have in my house will get my money. Until then, my other Kuros will remain where they stay. Feel free to call me a fanboy for that.
Good for playa I also could care less of each person have I care of what I have hell I still have a Polaroid yes a Polaroid 11 years old that still goes my comment wasn't to disrespect dnice or anyone for that matter I explain it clearly in my post all I'm saying lets enjoy 2013 and maybe 14 Samy and panny they all made great sets specially for the price that's the main subject price you are getting quality options kuro owners tend to get a little hostil when it comes to their sets they were or are best I get it enjoy them but some people come across as bias towards that set and rightly so but at the end of the day it is a personal opinion not politics and I would not question d nice or your ability at all but what it comes down to is fairness and fun with all this shootout I still went and bought a zt vt is going to my bedroom and I'm happy am not going crazy I'm just enjoy the goog options us the consumer has specialty at the price so dnice apologize for any part that wasn't understood in my prior post but I did wrote it very clear
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post #747 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 06:02 PM
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Ph8te I went back quite a few posts and couldn't find answer. If he has already answered it could u relay that answer to me? :-) much appreciated


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post #748 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 06:06 PM
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The controls in the isf modes are exactly the same as custom difference is isf modes have to be unlocked with software

So to answer your question custom would yield the same light output with same window size dnice please corrected if I am wrong

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post #749 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 06:07 PM
 
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Originally Posted by sumoHD View Post

Good for playa I also could care less of each person have I care of what I have hell I still have a Polaroid yes a Polaroid 11 years old that still goes my comment wasn't to disrespect dnice or anyone for that matter I explain it clearly in my post all I'm saying lets enjoy 2013 and maybe 14 Samy and panny they all made great sets specially for the price that's the main subject price you are getting quality options kuro owners tend to get a little hostil when it comes to their sets they were or are best I get it enjoy them but some people come across as bias towards that set and rightly so but at the end of the day it is a personal opinion not politics and I would not question d nice or your ability at all but what it comes down to is fairness and fun with all this shootout I still went and bought a zt vt is going to my bedroom and I'm happy am not going crazy I'm just enjoy the goog options us the consumer has specialty at the price so dnice apologize for any part that wasn't understood in my prior post but I did wrote it very clear
I would argue that everything you've typed so far is not all that clear. PLEASE try to punctuate and separate out your sentences so that your thought process can be followed more easily. It's just good forum etiquette to do so as a matter of fact.
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post #750 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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gene9p, you're way off base when it comes to D-Nice. He has added more to the plasma community than anyone I know of. I've been on the forum a long time and I have witnessed many occasions when D-Nice went above and beyond to help the community beginning for me with posting settings for the Kuros. Speaking of which -- he's not a pio fanboy -- he's a reference display fan and as the owner of 2 Kuros I can tell you they were the reference for many years.
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