Which display wins the shootout? Let's have some fun. Make your predictions here. - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rahzel View Post

What would be a better representation of most content? What makes TV shows different than film? Is hockey a better representation?
I think APL averages from a few random films is a pretty good example of 'most content', but I guess you don't agree.

No, I guess I don't agree. First off, watching full-screen 16:9 content such as sports, TV shows etc.puts more of a demand on the ABL. When they switched, just briefly, to Directv during the shootout, I could see the ABL kick in big time on the Panasonics. Yet the 8500 held the brightness far better. When I owned my Pro 151, I saw the ABL effect far more often on full screen shows (sports, movies, etc.) than many letter boxed movies. But as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I was at a MHT comparing the VT to the 8500 and even with a letter boxed movie, there was a bright overcast scene in which the overcast sky occupied perhaps 40% or so of the screen. On the VT the overcast sky dimmed noticeably while the 8500 exhibited no dimming at all.

So yes, I firmly believe the ABL plays a pretty significant role in plasma viewing.
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post #812 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post


If I'm a Pioneer fanboy, why did I replace my 4280HD with a ST60? I don't give a damn about a brand. I go with what is best. Whenever and whom ever makes a display that is better than the other displays I have in my house will get my money. Until then, my other Kuros will remain where they stay. Feel free to call me a fanboy for that.

Please correct me if I am reading more into this but does this mean ST60 is the best buy of the year according to D-Nice and many others?

I am really considering replacing my Sammy C8000 (3 years old) and dont want to break the bank, so considering the st60. Only thing I worry about is the filter not being as good as my Samsung C8000. Anyone have thoughts on this?


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post #813 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

I feel my eyes are more important than anything else when it comes to my dollars buying a display...unless I'm buying the display for the calibrators. wink.gif

Ken Ross it's getting annoying with all your anti Panasonic, pro Samsung posts (all 2 million of them). We get it, you love the 8500 and you are pissing your pants over it, but you don't have to attack every pro-panasonic post.
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post #814 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:25 PM
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thank god winter Olympics only comes around every four years.biggrin.gif

Now THAT'S one of the funniest posts I've read in a while! biggrin.gif
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post #815 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:28 PM
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it was almost buried....... wink.gif

I guess we need a longer shovel... wink.gif
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post #816 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Ken Ross it's getting annoying with all your anti Panasonic, pro Samsung posts (all 2 million of them). We get it, you love the 8500 and you are pissing your pants over it, but you don't have to attack every pro-panasonic post.

Not sure how that post is 'anti-Panasonic'. I've said that for years and I've owned displays from Panasonic, Fujitsu, Sharp, Pioneer and Sony. I've also lost count at how many times I've said these are 3 great displays and a great year for picking a display.

But wait a minute, has AVS short-changed me on my post count? Am I really almost 2 million short of your count? Dang! Is there a moderator that can adjust my post count please? biggrin.gif
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post #817 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

No, I guess I don't agree. First off, watching full-screen 16:9 content such as sports, TV shows etc.puts more of a demand on the ABL. When they switched, just briefly, to Directv during the shootout, I could see the ABL kick in big time on the Panasonics. Yet the 8500 held the brightness far better. When I owned my Pro 151, I saw the ABL effect far more often on full screen shows (sports, movies, etc.) than many letter boxed movies. But as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I was at a MHT comparing the VT to the 8500 and even with a letter boxed movie, there was a bright overcast scene in which the overcast sky occupied perhaps 40% or so of the screen. On the VT the overcast sky dimmed noticeably while the 8500 exhibited no dimming at all.

So yes, I firmly believe the ABL plays a pretty significant role in plasma viewing.
Were the F8500 and VT60 calibrated to the same brightness? AFAIK they weren't. So were you seeing the effects of the ABL or just the fact that the F8500 was just overall brighter? Again, we're discussing dark room performance.

Yes TV is 16:9, but you do realize that some of the content that was tested in my link above is 16:9, some 1.85:1 and some 2.35:1. Again, I think it IS a good representation of 'most content'.

Clearly we have different priorities for dark room performance. In a dark room, low APL performance is more important to me. And again that's not to say that the VT60/ZT60 perform poorly with most other content.
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post #818 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post

No, I guess I don't agree. First off, watching full-screen 16:9 content such as sports, TV shows etc.puts more of a demand on the ABL. When they switched, just briefly, to Directv during the shootout, I could see the ABL kick in big time on the Panasonics. Yet the 8500 held the brightness far better. When I owned my Pro 151, I saw the ABL effect far more often on full screen shows (sports, movies, etc.) than many letter boxed movies. But as recently as a couple of weeks ago, I was at a MHT comparing the VT to the 8500 and even with a letter boxed movie, there was a bright overcast scene in which the overcast sky occupied perhaps 40% or so of the screen. On the VT the overcast sky dimmed noticeably while the 8500 exhibited no dimming at all.

So yes, I firmly believe the ABL plays a pretty significant role in plasma viewing.

So there was NO real-world video viewing durring this "shootout"?

That would be hilarious. Who buys a TV then only watches disc based content?

Back in the day, Toshiba made a pretty sharp HDTV, looked AWESOME in the store with the store demo. But turn it to anything else and it really stunk. The Sony's of the day wheren't quite as sharp as the Toshiba's with the store demo but completely blew away every other set with normal content that most people would be watching.

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post #819 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

Check out the Cnet, HDTVtest and AVforums reviews......There are a number of thread on it also wink.gif google ST60 vs VT60 avsforum and you should get enough hits wink.gif

The ST60 doesnt ahve as good of an AR filter, it has a different panel, less "gradiations" a lower field drive, etc etc (per what has ben relesed)........

I read the cnet review but was looking for other opinions. I was keeping up with the st60 thread until it turned into 20 pages of input lag. I'll check out HDTV test and avforums. We have no magnolia around here so I won't get to see the vt unless I buy one but I think I'd rather get a 65st60. I have a 55st30 so I think the st60 would be a nice step up in pic quality and size. I guess I just like comparisons.

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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

F
full cms vs partial on st thx and isf modes that's About it I think

I've read they are pretty close picture wise but ill have to find some more reviews. I don't want to upgrade again for a while so I like to get as many comparisons as possible.



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post #820 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 08:41 PM
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Wonder if the results would be different (with the experts) if all the screens had frames around them blocking the manufacture??? On what planet can you say Contrast ratio on VT60/zT60 is superior to F8500?

Real loser is Panasonic. Vt60 compared to VT50, difference is almost in perceivable. On the other had F8500 is leaps and bounds superior over their previous models.
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post #821 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:07 PM
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So since Samsung sucked last year Panasonic loses because it was able to improve upon an already great display. Yeah that's logical.
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Originally Posted by mustangjim1 View Post

Wonder if the results would be different (with the experts) if all the screens had frames around them blocking the manufacture??? On what planet can you say Contrast ratio on VT60/zT60 is superior to F8500?

Real loser is Panasonic. Vt60 compared to VT50, difference is almost in perceivable. On the other had F8500 is leaps and bounds superior over their previous models.
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post #822 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:09 PM
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Am I the only one looking forward to the calibration reports? I think i want to see those more than I did the voting results biggrin.gif

Do you know where these get posted? Is tat where you find the black levels from the ANSI checkerboard as well?
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post #823 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:17 PM
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Btw I've become very impressed at what guys like Dnice can do to improve the look of my screen over what my own eyes can achieve. They've certainly earned my trust and admiration of them as experts in the field - demonstrated. If you're going to buy a tv online sight unseen these are the types of people you really want to to take heed of. I wish i had last time around. Reviewers are harsh critics; don't take my word on their expertise, read the real owner experiences of what these guys do and the expertise they have. Big thanks to the truly helpful members like Htwaits who takes so much time to compile these useful resources.
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post #824 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mjpearce023 View Post

I read the cnet review but was looking for other opinions. I was keeping up with the st60 thread until it turned into 20 pages of input lag. I'll check out HDTV test and avforums. We have no magnolia around here so I won't get to see the vt unless I buy one but I think I'd rather get a 65st60. I have a 55st30 so I think the st60 would be a nice step up in pic quality and size. I guess I just like comparisons.
I've read they are pretty close picture wise but ill have to find some more reviews. I don't want to upgrade again for a while so I like to get as many comparisons as possible.

The St60 thread should be much more bearable now for you as they seperated the inout lag discussion into a different thread.... smile.gif

Im sure it still happenes here and there, but I dont think its as prevelant as before..
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Do you know where these get posted? Is tat where you find the black levels from the ANSI checkerboard as well?

Usually to the VE website, not sure if they will do it differently this year. The do ANSI checkerboad and MLL as well as peak white for the modes they calibrated in......
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Originally Posted by openwheelracing View Post

Ken Ross it's getting annoying with all your anti Panasonic, pro Samsung posts (all 2 million of them). We get it, you love the 8500 and you are pissing your pants over it, but you don't have to attack every pro-panasonic post.

Up until late last week he had not even chosen a TV, and very well might have bought a Panasonic, his thoughts would still be the same though. "pissing in his pants" thats a new one....There have been plenty of pro panasonic posts that hes not said a word to as well.....Heck hes said all 3 were great TVs and you couldnt loose choosing either of the 3 top sets...I guess those comments that the VT and ZT beat the samsung in shadow detail get glossed over though....

They funny part is that the quote you posted is exactly what one should do when buying something..Lets say you buy the ZT, you get it home and it turns out to be terrible for your situation or you just dont like the look of the picture, should you keep it because the numbers are telling you something different than what you are seeing? I would hope not just as if you buy a F8500 and are not happy with it you should return it for a different TV.....
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post #825 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:48 PM
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So the Samsung F8500 has been declared the winner, even though the fix was supposed to be in for Panasonic to win?! Is this a new conspiracy to have the Samsung declared the winner, just to make those who revealed the conspiracy to rig the contest for Panasonic look crazy (which they clearly are)?! Snark Alert.wink.gif
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post #826 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

So the Samsung F8500 has been declared the winner, even though the fix was supposed to be in for Panasonic to win?! Is this a new conspiracy to have the Samsung declared the winner, just to make those who revealed the conspiracy to rig the contest for Panasonic look crazy (which they clearly are)?! Snark Alert.wink.gif


We've already been down that road lets not go down it again wink.gif

Its a shame that the chat isnt part of the video palyback, there were some gems being posted during the two nights especially on Saturday....

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Question now is, is the 8500 worth paying $500 more then the VT60 65"? I mean, how bad is the glare on the vt?

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post #828 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:14 PM
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Im glad the public votes went to F8500 and hopefully that will be translated to more sale figures.
As I said before the F8500 is a versatile TV and suitable for all environments and tastes.

Now what I want Panasonic engineers to do is to go back and see what needs improvements in their TVs ( specially the brighntess, sharpness and clarity) and bring us an even better TV next year instead of just concentrating on black levels.

For me personally Samsung was the clear winner before this shootout because this year they have revolutionised the plasma technology and touched an aspect of plasma that no manufacturer before them even bothered to look at. Plasmas before were only about blacker blacks. Hopefully that will not be the case anymore. Yes, we want blacker blacks but at the same time we want all the other PQ enhancements that will create a versatile and all rounder TV.

I hope Panasonic would not quit producing plasmas and would even better Samsung next year by investing in the shortcomings of their TVs. As for Samsung I hope they continue in the path they paved with better TVs and push the envelope further. Afterall I think we will be winners as consumers for getting great products in this competition.

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post #829 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Ph8te View Post

We've already been down that road lets not go down it again wink.gif

Its a shame that the chat isnt part of the video palyback, there were some gems being posted during the two nights especially on Saturday....


the cat looks thrilled biggrin.gif !

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post #830 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:23 PM
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@AndyN - Panasonic has a good display, not great. VT50 was clearly the winner last year. This year the "expert" Panasonic lemmings can't bring themselves to vote for Samsung. They just can't believe Samsung went from an OK plasma to a complete game changer. Samsung has forever changed the way Plasma's will be built from now on. My prediction is next year the VT70 will be just as bright and colorful as Samsung F8500. Hopefully the F8500 knocked the cobwebs out of Panasonics head and they will actually try some innovation.

Problem is Panasonic had no competition for so long that it has become stagnant, blotted, blubbering company that manages a few tweaks each year. Frankly if you put the VT60 and VT50 behind a curtain and ask people to pick which they like best, will be 50-50. How's that for innovation? Isn't it ironic that Panasonic can't even beat the Kuro, which they built and hold all the patents for....and it is 6 years later.
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I just wanted to poke fun at those Brand Name Fanboys who were sure that the fix was in for Panasonic to win, and their beloved Samsung was being cheated out of it's place at the top, but who have gone completely silent since the results were announced.

Fanboys remind me of this observation by the Irish playwright.


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Yikes @ the quoted Fabian socialist. :@ Patriotism in and of itself is not bad...the heritage and set of ideals that built a country are good to recall from time to time. *off soapbox*
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Originally Posted by mustangjim1 View Post

@AndyN - Panasonic has a good display, not great. VT50 was clearly the winner last year. This year the "expert" Panasonic lemmings can't bring themselves to vote for Samsung. They just can't believe Samsung went from an OK plasma to a complete game changer. Samsung has forever changed the way Plasma's will be built from now on. My prediction is next year the VT70 will be just as bright and colorful as Samsung F8500. Hopefully the F8500 knocked the cobwebs out of Panasonics head and they will actually try some innovation.
The "expert" lemmings? Come off it.
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Problem is Panasonic had no competition for so long that it has become stagnant, blotted, blubbering company that manages a few tweaks each year. Frankly if you put the VT60 and VT50 behind a curtain and ask people to pick which they like best, will be 50-50. How's that for innovation? Isn't it ironic that Panasonic can't even beat the Kuro, which they built and hold all the patents for....and it is 6 years later.
Panasonic did not build the Kuro.
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post #833 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Im glad the public votes went to F8500 and hopefully that will be translated to more sale figures.
As I said before the F8500 is a versatile TV and suitable for all environments and tastes.

Now what I want Panasonic engineers to do is to go back and see what needs improvements in their TVs ( specially the brighntess, sharpness and clarity) and bring us an even better TV next year instead of just concentrating on black levels.

For me personally Samsung was the clear winner before this shootout because this year they have revolutionised the plasma technology and touched an aspect of plasma that no manufacturer before them even bothered to look at. Plasmas before were only about blacker blacks. Hopefully that will not be the case anymore. Yes, we want blacker blacks but at the same time we want all the other PQ enhancements that will create a versatile and all rounder TV.

I hope Panasonic would not quit producing plasmas and would even better Samsung next year by investing in the shortcomings of their TVs. As for Samsung I hope they continue in the path they paved with better TVs and push the envelope further. Afterall I think we will be winners as consumers for getting great products in this competition.

Weren't you the one who said that the samsung, with is brightness pops and other bugs, was not deserving to win the competition before the results were released?
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post #834 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:31 PM
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Weren't you the one who said that the samsung, with is brightness pops and other bugs, was not deserving to win the competition before the results were released?

Me? No way. You are mistaken for someone else for sure.
I was even named Sammy Girl by Panasonic fans just for saying how I feel.

Even if Samsung did not win in this shootout, for me still it would have been the winner this year.
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post #835 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangjim1 View Post

@AndyN - Panasonic has a good display, not great. VT50 was clearly the winner last year. This year the "expert" Panasonic lemmings can't bring themselves to vote for Samsung. They just can't believe Samsung went from an OK plasma to a complete game changer. Samsung has forever changed the way Plasma's will be built from now on. My prediction is next year the VT70 will be just as bright and colorful as Samsung F8500. Hopefully the F8500 knocked the cobwebs out of Panasonics head and they will actually try some innovation.

Problem is Panasonic had no competition for so long that it has become stagnant, blotted, blubbering company that manages a few tweaks each year. Frankly if you put the VT60 and VT50 behind a curtain and ask people to pick which they like best, will be 50-50. How's that for innovation? Isn't it ironic that Panasonic can't even beat the Kuro, which they built and hold all the patents for....and it is 6 years later.
You do understand how close the competition was right? Your acting as if Samsung blew pannasonic out if the water lol

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post #836 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by greenland View Post

I just wanted to poke fun at those Brand Name Fanboys who were sure that the fix was in for Panasonic to win, and their beloved Samsung was being cheated out of it's place at the top, but who have gone completely silent since the results were announced.

Fanboys remind me of this observation by the Irish playwright.


"Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it."
George Bernard Shaw

I must have glazed over those as I dont remember seeing that, but as always there will always be a few that think the fix is an which is why I posted the picture I did. All the way up to and after the shootout the wild rumors and thoughts circulate, eventually people move on to something new....
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post #837 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Halimali View Post

Me? No way. You are mistaken for someone else for sure.
I was even named Sammy Girl by Panasonic fans just for saying how I feel.

Even if Samsung did not win in this shootout, for me still it would have been the winner this year.

It was sheshechic lol. Only two females on this thread and here I am mixing them up. Silly me. My apologies.
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post #838 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by mustangjim1 View Post

@AndyN - Panasonic has a good display, not great. VT50 was clearly the winner last year. This year the "expert" Panasonic lemmings can't bring themselves to vote for Samsung. They just can't believe Samsung went from an OK plasma to a complete game changer. Samsung has forever changed the way Plasma's will be built from now on. My prediction is next year the VT70 will be just as bright and colorful as Samsung F8500. Hopefully the F8500 knocked the cobwebs out of Panasonics head and they will actually try some innovation.

Problem is Panasonic had no competition for so long that it has become stagnant, blotted, blubbering company that manages a few tweaks each year. Frankly if you put the VT60 and VT50 behind a curtain and ask people to pick which they like best, will be 50-50. How's that for innovation? Isn't it ironic that Panasonic can't even beat the Kuro, which they built and hold all the patents for....and it is 6 years later.

And here I am with a lowly Pioneer Kuro... i should have gotten its Panasonic counterpart.
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post #839 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by makaveddie81 View Post

It was sheshechic lol. Only two females on this thread and here I am mixing them up. Silly me. My apologies.

No problem smile.gif

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post #840 of 1489 Old 05-13-2013, 10:42 PM
 
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It was sheshechic lol. Only two females on this thread and here I am mixing them up. Silly me. My apologies.
The drama is being poured on tonight by some who are butthurt (not you, Hali, for the record...your post was at least constructive and wasn't meant to incite) at what the professionals chose, so what's a little more drama poured into this thread? ;0
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Reply Plasma Flat Panel Displays

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