Originally Posted by mo949
Ken, I understand your half of the truth, but I'm interested in both sides. Just because nighttime viewing represents the majority doesn't mean we neglect the daytime minority. If you don't think 3d is going to be selling very well in the very near future as displays get refreshed and prices keep going the way they are, then you will be by the wayside, if you aren't already of course.
3-D capable displays sell well. 3-D content doesn't. 3-D broadcast is borderline non-existent. And the market doesn't seem to be clamoring for more.
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
Yup. IMO I think it's a big mistake to think this can only occur on commercials with full-screen whites. If that was it, I could give a rat's tush about it. But it isn't, it simply is not. I did the comparisons on normal content between a Pro 151 and a Sharp Elite for a month. They were both in my house. I've done the comparisons between an 8500 and a VT60 at more MHTs than I care to mention. In fact, I've yet to see a commercial in my comparison of the latter, just actual content. The ABL's throttling is unmistakeable. This is not an illusion, it's not a trick your eyes are playing on you and it's not just the result of an A/B. I can see it clearly watching an ABL hindered display all by itself.
Perhaps some are more sensitive to it than others. Perhaps some have never really seen what can happen when an ABL is less aggressive or simply doesn't exist.
There are a couple of fundamental flaws with this line of reasoning:
1) A Pioneer 151 isn't a Panasonic VT50 or VT60. So without some evidence that the Pioneer behaves similarly to one, we can more or less disregard that data as irrelevant.
2) The ability to detect the existence of something and the ability to actually be affected by the presence of it in normal circumstances are not the same thing. And, really, "Mr. Today Show Blocks" should take a lesson from his own playbook here. You were -- and I'm paraphrasing -- pretty much the only person to notice this color error on the Sharp Elite and then you spent dozens (scores? hundreds?) of posts convincing people it wasn't a big deal. Now, you've decided that any
detectable ABL, no matter whether the detecting is done solely by you, no matter what the content is, no matter how infrequent, no matter the circumstances, is sufficiently material to warrant hundreds (thousands?) of mentions.
This despite a half decade where the topic didn't even rise to the level of meaningful concern on the forums and where -- at least as of 2012 -- the issue was smaller
than it had been in 2011 and I presume 2009-10.
The idea that a typical person
is going to regularly
notice the effect of ABL* on a Panasonic plasma is false. I'm willing to state the previous sentence as fact
because I've carefully included qualifiers.
( The effect you are looking for is a visible dimming of the display, particularly in white/bright areas. Anything else you are seeing is not ABL. )
Originally Posted by Ken Ross
"Expert's" opinions and "user's" opinions are so often diametrically opposed. Just look at so many products reviewed on CNET from audio equipment to cellphones to routers...you pick the product. You'd think that two different products were being looked at, one by the 'experts' and the other by the 'users'. I personally gave up using these reviews to gauge the merits of a product for my own use since my experience has been the same as many other users. I can't tell you how many times I've bought a product, looked at a review and thought "this can't be the same product they reviewed".
And this can work either way from the expert review saying the product was fantastic and my experience being the opposite to them feeling the product was crap and me thinking it was great.
In the end it's what we see, hear or experience that is the truth as to what's 'best' for us.
And yet, in the case of the shootout at Valyoo Elektroniks (spelling obfuscated in case the ridiculous filtering prevents me from spelling it correctly), the experts and the "laypersons" reached nearly identical conclusions. At the end of the day, expert opinions are generally worthless. Real people buy things, not experts. If you wish to buy what experts recommend, you ought to do that. There is nothing wrong with that as a screening device, but at the end of the day, people are buyers. Buyers make companies money. Profitable companies make more products. I'll let others grasp the math from there.
Originally Posted by yamvmax
I cant believe how bad this thread has turned out...WTF people???? We have 3 great panels this year...who cares who its made by? You CANT go wrong with any of them.
True enough. The productive posts are here though: How do I choose among three great choices given my
needs? Look carefully, and there are gems.
Originally Posted by CHASLS2
I agree. After talking on the phone with Dnice i am going with a 60" VT60 to replace my 65vt30 sometime this fall.
Are you sure about shrinking your screen size?