F8500 or ST60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 27 Old 05-12-2013, 09:05 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm actually trying to compare the F8500 and the ST60. Feel free to poke holes at any of the points below. I've dismissed the VT or ZT due to the poor light output recognized at the shootout.

Both sets can reach 60ftl, ~ same mll, full 2D resolution, great video processing. Differences that I've read about or heard at the shootout...

F8500
Full resolution at 3D
Evolution kit
Brightness headroom
10pt greyscale calibration bug?
Dithering?
Floating blacks?
Plasma buzz
No fan noise?
Aggressive AR
Sharper picture?
Less aggressive ABL

ST60
Less than full resolution at 3D
Brightness headroom?
No CMS for secondary colors
Plasma buzz
No fans
Less aggressive AR than VT or ZT
Value priced
ABL

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post #2 of 27 Old 05-12-2013, 10:14 AM
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The ABL is toned down significantly on the ST60 and I'm not sure what you mean by brightness headroom, but it's about 3 times brighter than my ST30. Also the 'plasma buzz' is a non-issue, it doesn't need a fan, the AR is perfectly adequate, and the colors out of the box on cinema mode are great.
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post #3 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 09:01 AM
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I too would love to hear opinions on this... I can afford to grab either a 51-inch F8500 or a 60-inch ST60
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post #4 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob8436 View Post

I too would love to hear opinions on this... I can afford to grab either a 51-inch F8500 or a 60-inch ST60

The larger screen will make a far greater impact than the PQ performance differences of these two displays.

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post #5 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrkdilkington View Post

The ABL is toned down significantly on the ST60 and I'm not sure what you mean by brightness headroom, but it's about 3 times brighter than my ST30. Also the 'plasma buzz' is a non-issue, it doesn't need a fan, the AR is perfectly adequate, and the colors out of the box on cinema mode are great.

When you say toned down ABL....from what? VT?

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post #6 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by bob8436 View Post

I too would love to hear opinions on this... I can afford to grab either a 51-inch F8500 or a 60-inch ST60
Without a doubt the 60-inch ST60. The 51" is way to small to even think about it.
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post #7 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 03:48 PM
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Without a doubt the 60-inch ST60. The 51" is way to small to even think about it.

Hah, wow. I am coming from a 42" Phillips 42PFL7422D/37, so 51 is a hefty increase for me already!
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post #8 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 03:52 PM
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Panasonics are more prone to burn in than samsungs!!! take that in consideration too!!!
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post #9 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

Panasonics are more prone to burn in than samsungs!!! take that in consideration too!!!

You mean stubborn IR? burn in is a whole nother story

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post #10 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post

You mean stubborn IR? burn in is a whole nother story

maybe,but my set have an burn in,at least in couple of months it stays the same way,so end up with a full refund!! if it will go away in 1-2 years from now....I don't know!! but I was in best buy the other day and both of the Panasonics have IR and the Samsung (with the same picture as the Panasonics) have none...
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post #11 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 04:25 PM
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Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

Panasonics are more prone to burn in than samsungs!!! take that in consideration too!!!
My 60ST60 is getting picked up by BB tomorrow because of IR. The say IR goes away within seconds. Um, nope. I can watch certain things for an hour and have IR for a day after that. The ST60 is the best buy around if you do not mind IR. Will it go away. Sure, eventually. Will I see it in shows until it does. Yes I did.

Went with a 60es7500. Daytime blacks are actually better on the LED. The ST60 in daytime light can sometimes have a greyish tint. With lights on at night, the es7500 blacks still shine. Unless I am in total darkness the es7500 wins in blacks to the eye. Even with the lights off it looks great. I got a great price on the es7500 so it is sort of an unfair comparison but for the price of the ST60 there is probably nothing else in that retail price that compares. If I did not get the deal I did on the es7500 I probably would have kept the ST60 and dealt with the IR as bothersome as it was. The pq is fabulous on that thing.
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post #12 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by bob8436 View Post

Hah, wow. I am coming from a 42" Phillips 42PFL7422D/37, so 51 is a hefty increase for me already!
Then the 60" will be that much better. Unless you are sitting like 5ft from the TV, get the 60'. You will be that much more happy and all you will think about is you can have the same great pq only much much larger!

Unless smart features play an important role in your decision I can't really think of a reason to go with the 8500 at 51".
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post #13 of 27 Old 05-13-2013, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by PRBR View Post

Panasonics are more prone to burn in than samsungs!!! take that in consideration too!!!
My 60ST60 is getting picked up by BB tomorrow because of IR. The say IR goes away within seconds. Um, nope. I can watch certain things for an hour and have IR for a day after that. The ST60 is the best buy around if you do not mind IR.
I'm seeing no trace of IR on my 60ST60 at all. I've had it on 24/7, and on Saturday I mistakenly went to sleep with it showing black bars and a bug on an SD channel. Next morning, I turned on "Screen wipe" to check for IR. Nothing there at all. My previous Samsung set would have for sure shown some IR in those circumstances.

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post #14 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 08:51 AM
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What I can't figure out is how David Katzmaier has the ST60 looking less black than the F8500 or VT60, when the measurements on the ST60 have been .0016fL and the VT60/F8500 has been .0013/.0018fL. How can David get measurements of .004fL on his Klein and see these night and day differences.

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post #15 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by gmarceau View Post

What I can't figure out is how David Katzmaier has the ST60 looking less black than the F8500 or VT60, when the measurements on the ST60 have been .0016fL and the VT60/F8500 has been .0013/.0018fL. How can David get measurements of .004fL on his Klein and see these night and day differences.

He calibration reports also often show large spikes on grayscale around the 50 IRE point which I don't understand.

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post #16 of 27 Old 05-14-2013, 09:46 AM
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He calibration reports also often show large spikes on grayscale around the 50 IRE point which I don't understand.

No offense to David K but his calibration skills are a little lacking imo

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post #17 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 01:11 AM
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Go with the ST60, and I am saying this as a Samsung F8500 lover. Both have great pictures, similiar blacks, but only the ST60 is near half of what the Samsung costs.

It's sad I can't go with either because both suffer from heavy input lags, but if input lags are not of any concern to you, you can't go wrong with either!

I personally liked the ST60 better than the VT60, go figure.
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post #18 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 05:16 AM
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If the size is the same, and price is of no concern, I definitely pick the Samsung F8500.
Especially for bright room condition.
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post #19 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 05:46 AM
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Definitely the ST60. King of value by far. Get the larger size that is your biggest upgrade.
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post #20 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 08:10 AM
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There is no dispute on the F8500's performance in a bright room. And according to D-Nice at the Shootout, the ST60 can also get very bright (60 fL). My question is how close the ST60's brightness can be to the F8500's. Can any ST60 owner chime in on its performance in a bright living room (say, two big windows and a skylight)? Did anyone have chance to compare the two side by side (we did see a lot of comparisons between the F8500 and the VT60)?
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post #21 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by caeguy View Post

When you say toned down ABL....from what? VT?
From my ST30. i.e. just saying ABL does not belong in a 'con' list for the ST60.
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post #22 of 27 Old 05-15-2013, 12:17 PM
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I'm also in the same boat. I am strongly considering pulling the trigger on the ST60, but after reading more about the F8500 I am finding myself lusting for it! Obviously one is twice as much as the other. The question is, is it really worth paying double?

I do most of my tv viewing at night, but I do live in Tampa, FL. It doesn't get dark here during the summer until almost 9PM. I have a three section huge sliding glass door going out to a lanai in my living room. Light definitely comes in. Right now I have a Samsung 61A750 LED DLP. When I open the blinds the picture can very easily get washed out, but at night the display is more than bright enough. How do you guys think the ST60 would compare in that scenario? Would it be at least as bright as what I'm coming from? And would the light be any worse than it is now with the plasma vs. my DLP?

THANKS
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post #23 of 27 Old 05-16-2013, 12:59 PM
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ST60 gets very bright so don't shy away if brightness is a concern. The filter does not work "great" IMHO but it does cut down on glare.

The color saturation is beautiful on the ST60. My pick for best TV of the 2013 plasmas.
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post #24 of 27 Old 05-16-2013, 08:41 PM
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I am also comparing these 2 models. Due to my built in, I can only go as big as 55". I can get the 51" f8500 for about $350 more than the 55" ST60. I am upgrading from a Panasonic th-50px77u. Is the Samsung worth the extra as well as giving up screen real estate? I have seen them both, but not side by side.

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post #25 of 27 Old 05-18-2013, 11:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Done deal. F8500 it is!

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post #26 of 27 Old 05-18-2013, 12:04 PM
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What persuaded you to go with the Sammy? What size did you get. what was the price difference for you?

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post #27 of 27 Old 05-18-2013, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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I got the 60" as I cant fit anything larger. Since I'm returning a defective set, my situation on price was very unique so price was no factor.

Here are my thoughts on my purchase...

Light Output - I'm coming from a defective local dimming LED set so I wanted a set that could reach a calibrated 40-50+ ftl with minimal ABL
Black Levels - I saw this a wash between the 2 sets because they are so close by the numbers.
AR Filter - F8500 has a more aggressive filter to help with ambient light
3D - It was stated during the shootout that the Samsung does Full HD in 3D and Panasonic did some other type of processing
Sharpness - My eyes see more sharpness on the F8500
Dancing Pixels - With the content I was viewing, the pixels seemed more "locked in"
Calibration Controls - I'm a tweaker so the more the better. I really wanted secondary color CMS
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