Panasonic ST60 , is this normal? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 44 Old 05-19-2013, 09:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi, I'm fairly new to the world of plasma, started with an LG PA5500, and was plauged by "moving dots"( they move even on still images) all over the screen and odd artifacting, got rid of the LG and got a 60" ST60 and the dot problem is much much worse,









The above is from the Amazing Spiderman blue ray (it actually looks worse in person but this conveys the gist of the problem) , pretty much any dimly lit to dark scene you can see these dots moving around clearly from my normal viewing area wich is 11 feet away....just finished watching the latest episode of Hannibal and it looked terrible.....

Bottom line, in the world of plasma is this acceptable and par for the course? If not, should I try an exchange or opt for a repair attempt? On my Lg the dots werent near as visible from normal viewing distance byt still a distraction, also on the LG I had a small area about 1/4 inch around the screen that was devoid of these dots which I found odd, and what prompted me to try and get it fixed in the fist place.

Thanks!
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post #2 of 44 Old 05-19-2013, 10:20 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf0124 View Post

Hi, I'm fairly new to the world of plasma, started with an LG PA5500, and was plauged by "moving dots"( they move even on still images) all over the screen and odd artifacting, got rid of the LG and got a 60" ST60 and the dot problem is much much worse,









The above is from the Amazing Spiderman blue ray (it actually looks worse in person but this conveys the gist of the problem) , pretty much any dimly lit to dark scene you can see these dots moving around clearly from my normal viewing area wich is 11 feet away....just finished watching the latest episode of Hannibal and it looked terrible.....

Bottom line, in the world of plasma is this acceptable and par for the course? If not, should I try an exchange or opt for a repair attempt? On my Lg the dots werent near as visible from normal viewing distance byt still a distraction, also on the LG I had a small area about 1/4 inch around the screen that was devoid of these dots which I found odd, and what prompted me to try and get it fixed in the fist place.

Thanks!

You are the only one with this issue a the ST60 is superior to that LG
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post #3 of 44 Old 05-19-2013, 10:50 PM - Thread Starter
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You are the only one with this issue a the ST60 is superior to that LG

So in other words there is something wrong with the set? I'm trying to decide the best course of action, IE return and try something else, exchange, repair etc.
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post #4 of 44 Old 05-19-2013, 10:57 PM
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i have the LG, its beautiful. if you have the brightness up too high it can cause that effect, not sure about the panny. seen it on a few plasmas, post your settings ie, contrast, brightness etc.
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post #5 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 12:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Its brand new so I have it on standard, everything at 50, all post processing off.
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post #6 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 02:59 AM
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Dithering -- normal for a plasma. You are not supposed to look at the TV from a couple of feet, more like 6~10ft. If there is a Cinema, or Vivid mode, try selecting that, as it tends to minimise dithering.
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post #7 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 03:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Dithering -- normal for a plasma. You are not supposed to look at the TV from a couple of feet, more like 6~10ft. If there is a Cinema, or Vivid mode, try selecting that, as it tends to minimise dithering.

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The above is from the Amazing Spiderman blue ray (it actually looks worse in person but this conveys the gist of the problem) , pretty much any dimly lit to dark scene you can see these dots moving around clearly from my normal viewing area wich is 11 feet away....just finished watching the latest episode of Hannibal and it looked terrible.....

thats the problem, on the LG it was bad enough that I got a shimmering /soft haze effect, on the panasonic ST60 in dim to low lit scenes with many dark shades its highly visible at normal viewing distance.....from where I sit it looks like what you see in the phots, only worse because of the motion .....
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post #8 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 03:52 AM
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Take it out of normal mode and put it in custom or cinema. All the picture settings turned on in normal mode enhance this and make it look worse.
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post #9 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 04:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I have sharpness turned down to 0, and all the other froo froo stuff turned off.
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post #10 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 07:18 AM
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Standard is the worst mode on a Panny. Its basically power saver mode........As noted try Custom or perhaps eve Cinema though I prefer Custom myself. Usually there are some good settings listed on this forum to start with. When I input D-Nices Custom settings into my ST 50 it looked great & still does. If it is still really noisy after that then perhaps it could be a bad set but I suspect it will be just fine once dialed in some. I'll bet just putting it in Custom without tweaks will be a huge improvement alone

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post #11 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 08:11 AM
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http://www.avsforum.com/t/1466472/2013-panasonic-settings-issues-thread


Please read this thread and use the settings listed smile.gif
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post #12 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I read that before I bought the set.....its new, and based on the experience I had with the LG I'm going with a slow break in....when I first got the LG I did the slow paitent break in and had very little IR, when they replaced the panel I did things much quicker and got signficant IR....I dunno if it was the method or just the individual panels....but if I end up keping this I dont want to do anything to negatively affect it.
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post #13 of 44 Old 05-20-2013, 09:19 PM
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Oh wow yo bought a plasma congratulations.
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post #14 of 44 Old 05-21-2013, 05:49 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, I went on and tried Dnices settings for a little bit, its better but still a bit off from good IMO (the flashing dots not overall PQ), from my normal viewing area I still see it quite clearly in darkish scenes....I cant see it all the way back in the kitchen like I could on standard mode but I'd much rather watch from my couch instead of the kitchen.....any tips for photographing a TV picture to get it as accurate as possible? I'd really like to know if mine is overly excessive and a repair or erplacement should do the trick.....or if I need to try something else altogether.


I hate this, I'd be loving this thing if it werent for the dots crawling around eveywhere.....and again this is from a distance of 11-14 feet.....on my LG I noticed the shimmering effect of them moving around but I couldnt really "see" them at normal distance, on the ST60 I see them clearly, they are slightly smaller but closer together and much brighter and seem to mov muche faster....if that means anything.......Also my brother who has so so eyesight and never noticed it period on the LG sees them clearly on the ST60
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post #15 of 44 Old 05-21-2013, 07:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf0124 View Post

Okay, I went on and tried Dnices settings for a little bit, its better but still a bit off from good IMO (the flashing dots not overall PQ), from my normal viewing area I still see it quite clearly in darkish scenes....I cant see it all the way back in the kitchen like I could on standard mode but I'd much rather watch from my couch instead of the kitchen.....any tips for photographing a TV picture to get it as accurate as possible? I'd really like to know if mine is overly excessive and a repair or erplacement should do the trick.....or if I need to try something else altogether.


I hate this, I'd be loving this thing if it werent for the dots crawling around eveywhere.....and again this is from a distance of 11-14 feet.....on my LG I noticed the shimmering effect of them moving around but I couldnt really "see" them at normal distance, on the ST60 I see them clearly, they are slightly smaller but closer together and much brighter and seem to mov muche faster....if that means anything.......Also my brother who has so so eyesight and never noticed it period on the LG sees them clearly on the ST60

I have the 60ST 60 and I have that issue from time to time but its almost always the the source, I did have an issue with an improperly shielded cable was routed strangely and it had a little to do with it.. I can tell for sure that its not always like that... hook up rabbit ears and find a HD local channel, I can set my TV to Vivid on a good source and I see NONE of that.. but on some netflix or Bluray movies under the wrong (right) onditions I see that..

To set your mind at ease.. hook up an antenna and watch regular HD 1080i tv, I think you will not see that anymore..
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post #16 of 44 Old 05-21-2013, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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I have the 60ST 60 and I have that issue from time to time but its almost always the the source, I did have an issue with an improperly shielded cable was routed strangely and it had a little to do with it.. I can tell for sure that its not always like that... hook up rabbit ears and find a HD local channel, I can set my TV to Vivid on a good source and I see NONE of that.. but on some netflix or Bluray movies under the wrong (right) onditions I see that..

To set your mind at ease.. hook up an antenna and watch regular HD 1080i tv, I think you will not see that anymore..

It does this with everything, I dont have rabbit ears but if it does it on the panny screen when you first fire it up and does it on all the "smart" screens and native streaming....I bet it will do the same over the airwaves.....

I jumped the gun with place I ordered from, they had it in stock for a competetive price ( all the big places were backordered on the 60", on amazon the 65" was a $1000 more, and the 55" a whopping $7 less than the 60" at the time) .....got screwed by their joke of a "white Glove delivery".....and then learned today that they have a "no return policy on TV's larger than 37" even if defective....so I have a tech coming next week to look at it....and they sure werent as nice to me today as they were when I ordered....just a heads up if your thinking of dealing with AlltimeTvs.com.....

With a return not easily possible without a fight I called panasonic and managed to get the guy who worked on my LG to give this a go, I trust him to do right by me ( he's gone above and beyond in multiple capacities on my behalf already) I described the issue to him and he assures me it shouldnt be doing that so hopefully its something a voltage adjustment or 3 can fix.......if not I already know this guy will go to bat for me as he did with LG, which started off with voltage adjustments that made it worse, followed by board replacements all the way up to a panel replacement and ended with LG "buying back" the set....which led me to the ST60 and what I thought would be a trouble free amazing experience.....I wish OLED would hurry up and hit mass market in large screen sizes.....
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post #17 of 44 Old 05-22-2013, 10:18 AM
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Well, I have seen what you're seeing on mine but its not always there, on my set its source dependent. When running the slides off the USB or sd, do you see it? My set is calibrated to cnets settings but it looks about the same with dnice too., I can take a picture of mine doing it and another one with it not to show you if you're interested.
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post #18 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 01:16 AM - Thread Starter
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Mine does it on EVERYTHING, its apparant on the slides from Dnice, and its there on the built in test patterns in the sets service menu, every source its there, on bright colors its not very noticeable but dark colors and shadow detail etc look horrific.....the pics in the thread look much better than it actually is, the dots are a bright green and move very rapidly which make them stand out like a sore thumb from very far away.....you cant help but notice them, on dark scenes they stand out more than the actual picture.


I had a service guy come check it out and he said something is very wrong and it shouldnt be doing that to that extreme, he was the one who pulled up the SM test patterns, he also brought in his own HD DVD player and cables to rule out my equipment and it didnt help.....the only way to lessen it is to crush the black levels and thats no solution, he adjusted various voltages and while that changed the beahvoir of the dots it didnt lessesn them.....he took a bunch of photos, tested my outlets (which all the electric from my outlets to the inside and outside breaker box for my apartment were replaced less than 6 months ago), he's going to get back to me once he hears back from Panasonic, he deems the set "unwatchable" in its current state , he has owned several plasma sets over the years and has worked on lord knows how many and he has never seen it that bad.






Tried getting better images truly showing the problem and I cant, the first image of the above is closest to what it looks like at 12 feet away....and it looks much worse in person, as the dots are much brighter and in constant rapid motion....and again its on everything from blue ray to cable to intenal software to intenal test images in the service menu....if the set is on ....its there...

Any tips on getting an accurate image would be great
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post #19 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 03:51 AM
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Why didn't you just exchange it?
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post #20 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 04:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Why didn't you just exchange it?

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Originally Posted by mattf0124 View Post

I jumped the gun with place I ordered from, they had it in stock for a competetive price ( all the big places were backordered on the 60", on amazon the 65" was a $1000 more, and the 55" a whopping $7 less than the 60" at the time) .....got screwed by their joke of a "white Glove delivery".....and then learned today that they have a "no return policy on TV's larger than 37" even if defective....so I have a tech coming next week to look at it....and they sure werent as nice to me today as they were when I ordered....just a heads up if your thinking of dealing with AlltimeTvs.com.....

. .

I cant return it period as explained earlier...that rules out an exchange which is what I wanted to try first.....
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post #21 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 05:34 AM
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I cant return it period as explained earlier...that rules out an exchange which is what I wanted to try first.....

Where did you buy it? This should also be a lessons learned for people. Sometimes it is worth paying a little more money to get it from a place that accepts returns on defects and also covers the shipping. Or just buy local!

Sure, maybe eventually Panasonic will fix your TV under warranty but is it really worth all the stress and time you waste to save $50 - $100.
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post #22 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 05:39 AM
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I am sorry, you are really in a bad spot, that is not normal and nowhere near what I see on mine, you should not be able to see it unless you are inches from the scree,. I couldnt even get a picture of it on mine to show the difference (didnt show)

Your only option is to call Panasonic, they will have to cover it under warranty. not ideal but I think this is your only option.
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post #23 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Where did you buy it? This should also be a lessons learned for people. Sometimes it is worth paying a little more money to get it from a place that accepts returns on defects and also covers the shipping. Or just buy local!

Sure, maybe eventually Panasonic will fix your TV under warranty but is it really worth all the stress and time you waste to save $50 - $100.


The answer to where I bought it and why I bought it is in the self quote I made to answer your last question.....
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I am sorry, you are really in a bad spot, that is not normal and nowhere near what I see on mine, you should not be able to see it unless you are inches from the scree,. I couldnt even get a picture of it on mine to show the difference (didnt show)

Your only option is to call Panasonic, they will have to cover it under warranty. not ideal but I think this is your only option.
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I had a service guy come check it out and he said something is very wrong and it shouldnt be doing that to that extreme, he was the one who pulled up the SM test patterns, he also brought in his own HD DVD player and cables to rule out my equipment and it didnt help.....the only way to lessen it is to crush the black levels and thats no solution, he adjusted various voltages and while that changed the beahvoir of the dots it didnt lessesn them.....he took a bunch of photos, tested my outlets (which all the electric from my outlets to the inside and outside breaker box for my apartment were replaced less than 6 months ago), he's going to get back to me once he hears back from Panasonic, he deems the set "unwatchable" in its current state , he has owned several plasma sets over the years and has worked on lord knows how many and he has never seen it that bad.
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post #24 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 06:31 AM
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The answer to where I bought it and why I bought it is in the self quote I made to answer your last question.....
Gotcha, I missed your quote. Well if it is truly defective Panasonic should cover it under warranty.

The picture almost looks like the effect you get when you turn on all the options in the settings. Like it is in Vivid mode enhancing all the crap you would not normally see in a better mode with everything turned off.
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post #25 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 06:47 AM
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I jumped the gun with place I ordered from, they had it in stock for a competetive price ( all the big places were backordered on the 60", on amazon the 65" was a $1000 more, and the 55" a whopping $7 less than the 60" at the time) .....got screwed by their joke of a "white Glove delivery".....and then learned today that they have a "no return policy on TV's larger than 37" even if defective....so I have a tech coming next week to look at it....and they sure werent as nice to me today as they were when I ordered....just a heads up if your thinking of dealing with AlltimeTvs.com.....

AlltimeTVs dot com is a horrible bottom feeder of a company. They seem to be affiliated with or owned by the same people as EastCoasTVs dot com which is equally horrible. They both post overly glowing fake reviews on ResellerRatings.com to lure people into their trap. They've both been discussed here before. You should post a long detailed negative review on RSR about their misleading "white glove" delivery and their change of attitude when you called them about your problem.

This should be a lesson for all bargain hunters - "The Best Price Usually Is NOT The Best Deal".

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post #26 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 07:02 AM
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AlltimeTVs dot com is a horrible bottom feeder of a company. They seem to be affiliated with or owned by the same people as EastCoasTVs dot com which is equally horrible. They both post overly glowing fake reviews on ResellerRatings.com to lure people into their trap. They've both been discussed here before. You should post a long detailed negative review on RSR about their misleading "white glove" delivery and their change of attitude when you called them about your problem.

This should be a lesson for all bargain hunters - "The Best Price Usually Is NOT The Best Deal".
Since they are most likely not an authorized dealer does that mean Panasonic won't honor the warranty? I know with some companies you would be SOL when purchasing through non authorized dealers but not sure what Panasonic's take on it is.
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post #27 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 07:08 AM
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Since they are most likely not an authorized dealer does that mean Panasonic won't honor the warranty? I know with some companies you would be SOL when purchasing through non authorized dealers but not sure what Panasonic's take on it is.

I dont believe that will ahve any impact on the manufactuer warranty, this has been discussed a few times recently. The problem you'll have is that you ahve to go through Panasonic now instead of the retailer...
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post #28 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 07:11 AM
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Since they are most likely not an authorized dealer does that mean Panasonic won't honor the warranty? I know with some companies you would be SOL when purchasing through non authorized dealers but not sure what Panasonic's take on it is.

Panasonic will honor the warranty as long as the TV was bought through a legitimate retailer and you have a legitimate sales receipt in your possession that you can show the repair man and/or fax to Panasonic.

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post #29 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 07:13 AM
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Whats the source material? Direct blu ray? OTA, Blu Ray rip on your network etc?

The first couple pictures you posted looked pretty normal, seemed like brightness was to high/source may have been a bit compressed causing them to be a bit more apparent

The other few you posted do look kind of severe.

All plasmas pixels dance, it can be quite apparent from 3-4 feet away, but from recommended distance it should not be a problem. I have however had a similar issue with my first Panasonic GT25, I could see the screen "Moving/shifting" even from normal viewing distance, however I hated so many things about that TV i never got a chance to adjust it so it could have been due to it being in the standard setting.

While I think its possibel you have an issue, im not 100% convinced its not something other than the TV.. What testing/steps have you done other than a spiderman video you posted pictures of

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post #30 of 44 Old 05-23-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters View Post

AlltimeTVs dot com is a horrible bottom feeder of a company. They seem to be affiliated with or owned by the same people as EastCoasTVs dot com which is equally horrible. They both post overly glowing fake reviews on ResellerRatings.com to lure people into their trap. They've both been discussed here before. You should post a long detailed negative review on RSR about their misleading "white glove" delivery and their change of attitude when you called them about your problem.

This should be a lesson for all bargain hunters - "The Best Price Usually Is NOT The Best Deal".

I bought from them because they had it in stock and the price difference on the larger and smaller version didnt jive, Amazon, BB, TD and the other usuaual suspects were backordered, LG bought back my old set so I had to send that in ASAP and didnt want to wait.

Quote:
Originally Posted by eric3316 View Post

Since they are most likely not an authorized dealer does that mean Panasonic won't honor the warranty? I know with some companies you would be SOL when purchasing through non authorized dealers but not sure what Panasonic's take on it is.

As stated in multiple threads Panasonic already sent someone to evaluate, he deems the set "unwatchable" and now its wait to hear back from Panasonic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shady195 View Post

Whats the source material? Direct blu ray? OTA, Blu Ray rip on your network etc?

The first couple pictures you posted looked pretty normal, seemed like brightness was to high/source may have been a bit compressed causing them to be a bit more apparent

The other few you posted do look kind of severe.

All plasmas pixels dance, it can be quite apparent from 3-4 feet away, but from recommended distance it should not be a problem. I have however had a similar issue with my first Panasonic GT25, I could see the screen "Moving/shifting" even from normal viewing distance, however I hated so many things about that TV i never got a chance to adjust it so it could have been due to it being in the standard setting.

While I think its possibel you have an issue, im not 100% convinced its not something other than the TV.. What testing/steps have you done other than a spiderman video you posted pictures of

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattf0124 View Post

Mine does it on EVERYTHING, its apparant on the slides from Dnice, and its there on the built in test patterns in the sets service menu, every source its there, on bright colors its not very noticeable but dark colors and shadow detail etc look horrific.....the pics in the thread look much better than it actually is, the dots are a bright green and move very rapidly which make them stand out like a sore thumb from very far away.....you cant help but notice them, on dark scenes they stand out more than the actual picture.


I had a service guy come check it out and he said something is very wrong and it shouldnt be doing that to that extreme, he was the one who pulled up the SM test patterns, he also brought in his own HD DVD player and cables to rule out my equipment and it didnt help.....the only way to lessen it is to crush the black levels and thats no solution, he adjusted various voltages and while that changed the beahvoir of the dots it didnt lessesn them.....he took a bunch of photos, tested my outlets (which all the electric from my outlets to the inside and outside breaker box for my apartment were replaced less than 6 months ago), he's going to get back to me once he hears back from Panasonic, he deems the set "unwatchable" in its current state , he has owned several plasma sets over the years and has worked on lord knows how many and he has never seen it that bad.






Tried getting better images truly showing the problem and I cant, the first image of the above is closest to what it looks like at 12 feet away....and it looks much worse in person, as the dots are much brighter and in constant rapid motion....and again its on everything from blue ray to cable to intenal software to intenal test images in the service menu....if the set is on ....its there...

All the asnwers to your questions are in that post
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