65" Pansonic Plasma TC 65PS64 Vs 60" Panasonic Plasma TC P60ST60 - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 05-23-2013, 04:58 PM - Thread Starter
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After reading CNET's glowing review of the ST60 I was about ready to buy the $1469 delivered 60" one (Paul's TV) . The biggest difference they pointed out between it and the S60 was the AR reflective screen on the ST60. Now I see that Sam's has a 65" Panasonic Plasma PS64 for $1514 net with the anti reflective screen.

I want a high quality picture. But I want bigger too. The 17% bigger PS64 is very tempting for only 3% more money. I assume I would be giving up a little in picture quality and adjustment, but "bigger is better" isn't it? (I'll be sitting 13 feet from the screen in the room its going in. The room has no nearby window, only openings to another room with sunlight windows. In other words, its a naturally dim room unless you turn the lights on in it.)

How would you compare these 2 TVs? What critical features should I be considering? I've never considered myself a videophile. (audio has been more my interest)

Thanks for the help in advance for this newbie.

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post #2 of 21 Old 05-24-2013, 09:27 AM
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I'm having the exact same debate, except less light control in my room. Any thoughts from more expert members would be helpful.

To the OP, my understanding is that the S60 doesn't have 3d capability, and has less gray scale adjustment than the ST60.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-24-2013, 12:23 PM
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In the same boat, just saw that the S64 is available at C@stco. I currenlty have a 50" Kuro and would like to replace it with something bigger. The delta fo the ST60 from 60" to 65" is not worth it, imho. S64 is priced right and 4k is coming so dont want to invest that much money in a 1080p panel.


I looked on Panasonic website and they have the S64 listed but when you compare it with the ST60 is had no details.


From the deal thread someone posted this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Bananas View Post

Here are the differences from what I understand, strictly looking at things that impact PQ...

3D
ST60 = Yes
S64 = No

Display Drive
ST60 = "2500 focused field drive"
S64 = "600Hz Sub-Field drive"

Shades of gradation
ST60 = 12,288 steps
S64 = 6,144 steps

Calibration
ST60 = 10 point gamma and white balance controls and CMS adjustment for the primary colors
S64 = no gamma or CMS adjustments


... in short, the S64 is the same as an S60 but with an Infinite Black filter (AR Filter of the ST60) to reduce reflections.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-24-2013, 02:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff_DML View Post

In the same boat, just saw that the S64 is available at C@stco. I currenlty have a 50" Kuro and would like to replace it with something bigger. The delta fo the ST60 from 60" to 65" is not worth it, imho. S64 is priced right and 4k is coming so dont want to invest that much money in a 1080p panel.


I looked on Panasonic website and they have the S64 listed but when you compare it with the ST60 is had no details.


From the deal thread someone posted this.

Yes, obviously going from the 60" ST60 to the 65" ST60 somebody makes a LOT more profit, so much so that it is not worth it to me either.

Apparently the S64 is an S60 with the anti-reflective screen as someone has already pointed out.

I know that the larger screen size of the S64 will always be very noticeable to me. The increased picture quality of the ST60 is likely not to be as noticeable. Too bad I can't see them side by side in my room!
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post #5 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 10:25 AM
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Anyone else have an opinion on whether the PQ difference would be noticeable to an average person?
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post #6 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 10:37 AM
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I have had both an S60 and an ST60 side by side in my house.

The PQ of the ST60 is better. Is it leaps and bounds better? No.

Purely from a PQ standpoint, if you have the AR filter S64, you will be happy with the picture.

I should point out that the ST60 is a brighter set and maybe this would impact daytime viewing (or watching in a well-lit environment).

Another factor may be gaming: The S64's input lag measurements are better than the ST60.
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post #7 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 11:15 AM
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Thanks conmen. Sounds like you'd say the bigger size on the S60 outweighs the PQ advantage of the ST60 if you have good light control.
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post #8 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luck7496 View Post

Thanks conmen. Sounds like you'd say the bigger size on the S60 outweighs the PQ advantage of the ST60 if you have good light control.

Yes. But I must stress that you have to have really good light control or not be neurotic about reflections. In my case, I could not control the light because I have an open doorway to another room at 8:00 from the TV (imagine that in watching the TV, you are at 6:00).

If the light is on in that other room, I would get a very strong mirror like reflection on the S60.

I was sitting about 8 feet from the television and with the pot lights on above me, I could see a mirror quality reflection of myself during dark scenes, or in a news announcers clothes if were wearing a dark outfit.

I don't want to have to watch TV in complete darkness, so I swapped the S60 for an ST60.

The ST60 is less reflective such that overhead lights are not an issue. And the reflection from the other room (when that room's lights are on) is very muted, no longer mirror quality.

There is still some reflection that pops up in the ST60, but it is very muted and dark outlines at best. And this is only present when the room is fully lit.

In other words, I am very pleased with the AR qualities of the ST60 (and hopefully for others, the S64 shares this quality).

Sorry for the overly detailed ambient light detail, but I want to be clear that I don't think the S60 is good for just any situation where you can close a light or close a blind. You've got to have pretty good control of the environment (basement would be perfect, I think, or a room with lights to the side that has a door that can close).

However, the image is good, so if you can manage to make lighting work for you, I would very much endorse an S60.
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post #9 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 01:49 PM
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Size wins in this case. I don't think the 60ST60 is $1000 better than 65S64. PQ looked similiar to me on both sets. If your picky and obsess on the AV science then ST. I love the value, size, PQ, & did I mention value of the S64. The money I'll be saving will afford me to upgrade my sound system and get a nice tv stand to match the new tv.
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post #10 of 21 Old 06-05-2013, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I bought the 65" S64 and I have no reflections on the screen even when the lights are on in the room. I am very pleased with the PQ.

Within a week the TV just locked up for no apparent reason while we were watching it. I followed the manual's directions and it never came back on. Had to repack it and haul it back to SAMs. I got another S64 and I hope it lives. I could have had the 60" ST60 for a little less money, but I believe I'll get more enjoyment out of the 65" Panny with the anti reflective screen. Ed
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post #11 of 21 Old 06-29-2013, 09:30 AM
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Did you have any issue in exchanging it at Sam's? They just dropped the price to $1288, if they will give you a price adjustment.
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post #12 of 21 Old 06-29-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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No I did not have any trouble returning the nonworking television. The price had not dropped at the time I returned the nonworking set. A week later they dropped the price and I went in with my receipt only. They gave me $119 credit to my account.
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post #13 of 21 Old 06-29-2013, 06:12 PM
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This is a great thread, I'm having the same dilemma. I'm sitting 12-12.5 feet away. I have 2 (5.5'x 2.5') windows & a nearly full length window in my front door (accordion blinds always closed on it) in my living room. During the day my living room is well lit but not super bright and there is no direct sunlight on the TV. I game (Uncharted,COD,& sports) but not that often anymore (1-2 hrs/week if that). I can get the 65S64-$1288 or 60ST60-$1499.

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post #14 of 21 Old 06-29-2013, 07:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tubayj View Post

I don't think the 60ST60 is $1000 better than 65S64. PQ looked similiar to me on both sets.

It's not, but it's also not $1000 more, either. We're talking a $200 difference, at most.

As someone considering both of these as well, I'm currently leaning toward the ST60. Some folks say there is a little difference, and others say they're really not in the same league. Considering you'll never see them side-by-side anywhere, it's a tough call. I'd recommend finding somewhere that carries the S60 and ST60, to compare PQ. As far as screen size, I'd recommend taping off the footprint of both to visualize the actual difference between the two.
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post #15 of 21 Old 06-29-2013, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by connmen View Post


The PQ of the ST60 is better. Is it leaps and bounds better? No.

Purely from a PQ standpoint, if you have the AR filter S64, you will be happy with the picture.

Quote:
Originally Posted by connmen View Post

Having had the ST60 and the S60 for a couple days, I would not characterize the PQ difference as minor. The ST60 is a much nicer looking picture because it has a panel that is much darker, so the dark portions of the screen look really really good, making everything else pop even more.

That said, the S60/S64's PQ is very good so you are not sacrificing having a great TV in buying those televisions.


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post #16 of 21 Old 06-30-2013, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKA View Post

It's not, but it's also not $1000 more, either. We're talking a $200 difference, at most.

As someone considering both of these as well, I'm currently leaning toward the ST60. Some folks say there is a little difference, and others say they're really not in the same league. Considering you'll never see them side-by-side anywhere, it's a tough call. I'd recommend finding somewhere that carries the S60 and ST60, to compare PQ. As far as screen size, I'd recommend taping off the footprint of both to visualize the actual difference between the two.

Yeah after tax I'm at $120 difference with the S64 being cheaper.

I've been leaning towards the ST60 as well. I've compared the S60 & ST60 at Sears, playing with the settings on both. Hard to tell PQ difference in that environment and having to walk back and forth doesn't help.

I've read all of the ST60,S60,& S64 threads. It seems that owners (most happy) of the S60/S64 are having more issues with their sets.

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post #17 of 21 Old 06-30-2013, 07:17 AM - Thread Starter
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CNET Says that the picture quality is not much difference between S60 and ST60. The biggest difference they point out is the lack of antireflective screen on the S60. But you get the anti-reflective screen on the S64. The S64 is faster for gaming than the ST60. While you may or may not notice a picture quality difference, you will notice the big difference in size with the S64 having the big advantage for both size and speed for gaming, Plus the small cost advantage.
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post #18 of 21 Old 06-30-2013, 09:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Haney View Post

CNET Says that the picture quality is not much difference between S60 and ST60. The biggest difference they point out is the lack of antireflective screen on the S60. But you get the anti-reflective screen on the S64. The S64 is faster for gaming than the ST60. While you may or may not notice a picture quality difference, you will notice the big difference in size with the S64 having the big advantage for both size and speed for gaming, Plus the small cost advantage.

The same review also said that the S60's motion processing was mediocre in comparison to the ST60 and that, if you had the money, to choose the ST60.
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-01-2013, 02:15 PM
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I've decided on the 60ST60, I was pretty set on it from the start. The only reasons I ever really considered the S64 was the size (4" wider) & input lag differences, but the issues (popping, buzzing, & yellowing) regarding the S60/S64 that I've been reading about recently helped me feel more comfortable about my decision. I know the ST60 isn't without faults, but I would prefer the better PQ & video processing over size. If the input lag bothers me when I get it, then I will consider returning it and getting the S64. But for what I will use it for most, I happy about getting the ST60.

Order of the content I use my TV for:

  1. Sports (college football, basketball, baseball, & hockey)
  2. TV Shows
  3. Movies & Gaming

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post #20 of 21 Old 07-02-2013, 08:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TdotLee View Post

I've decided on the 60ST60, I was pretty set on it from the start. The only reasons I ever really considered the S64 was the size (4" wider) & input lag differences, but the issues (popping, buzzing, & yellowing) regarding the S60/S64 that I've been reading about recently helped me feel more comfortable about my decision. I know the ST60 isn't without faults, but I would prefer the better PQ & video processing over size. If the input lag bothers me when I get it, then I will consider returning it and getting the S64. But for what I will use it for most, I happy about getting the ST60.

Order of the content I use my TV for:

  1. Sports (college football, basketball, baseball, & hockey)
  2. TV Shows
  3. Movies & Gaming

They still have the ST60's in the Tampa area? It seems every else they've been back ordered for 1-2 months.
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post #21 of 21 Old 07-02-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Auditor55 View Post

They still have the ST60's in the Tampa area? It seems every else they've been back ordered for 1-2 months.

Not that I know of... I had my wife call around to Sears & BB and all they have is the display models. I just went ahead and ordered it on Amazon last night, est shipping 7/22-8/26. I'm not in a rush, though having it by the start of the college football season would be nice.

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