Panasonic TC-65PS64 and TC-50PS64 ~OWNER'S POLL~ - Page 10 - AVS Forum
View Poll Results: Are you glad overall that you bought the PanasonicTC-xxPS64?
Yes, totally glad. 22 88.00%
No, I regret it. 0 0%
I'm ambivalent. Serious doubts. 3 12.00%
Voters: 25. You may not vote on this poll

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post #271 of 769 Old 08-18-2013, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverwidow View Post

Please don't use these settings he listed:

Pro settings: Panel brightness: High
Pro settings: Black extension: +7

Keep them at Mid and 0, just as fairchild99 lists in his calibrations.

Thanks, I have not been following the recommended settings closely so didn't notice that Caely's settings are quite a bit higher for Panel Brightness and Black extension. I'm hoping to find settings that I can use and stay with... Making continual picture adjustments is not something I want to do...
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post #272 of 769 Old 08-18-2013, 12:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 View Post

Also brightness at +8 is most definitely going to wash out the picture depending on the settings in your display source device. (blu-ray, cable/dish box, htpc, receiver, etc...)

I thought I'd edit this post and also add my latest calibration:

Here's another calibration I did from scratch using different 4% window patterns. The CMS surprisingly had to be changed the most to get the colors lined up but so far I haven't noticed anything glaringly wrong with the calibration. Skin tones look good using the various content I tested on it. Not going to post the graphs unless enough want them and request them (PM works best). I also suggest you don't run these unless your set has a good amount of hours, as these were performed with my set at over 1400 hours.

Re "Skin tones look good using the various content I tested on it."

Did your calibration content include any SD or was it all HD?
If you did use some SD content how much difference did it make in the settings?

My content is mostly SD..so I'd like to start with your settings and tweak appropriate individual parameters.

Thanks.
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post #273 of 769 Old 08-18-2013, 12:51 PM
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Just HD sources and mostly Blu-ray at that.

Sony 32" EX400 calibrated settings
Panasonic 50" S60 calibrated settings
HTPC/Sony S5100 to Sony HT-CT660 to Panasonic 55" VT60, Sony 32" EX400, Panasonic 50" S60
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post #274 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 06:49 AM
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Before changing the settings do you guys recommend so many hours on the set first before doing that. Better to leave it like it is right out of the box inless it is ungodly bad?

I'm setting it up for my Aunt and Uncle and I won't be there for the break in period. What do you recommend I tell them? how to handle their tv watching?

I will show them about the anti image retention bar thing to run. How often should they run that?

They have never had HD Cable before they have just been watching SD Cable Television so I'm sure it will look unbelievable to them.

Any other things I should tell them?

it's Comcast Cable

Panasonic TC-50PS64

How many picture modes on this set and which one should they be watching when breaking in the set?
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post #275 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 11:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Caely View Post

The way I've set the black, I really like it. It's never too dark for me, as I want black to be BLACK! What would "black clipping" be like? Can it hurt my tv? I don't notice anything weird in the picture, whether black bars are present or not. All colors are true, as is White, no matter the source. What more could I ask?! Am I missing something? I really do thank you for the warning; but being inexperienced in this, I have to admit that I am not familiar w/the phenomenon you mention.

I did locate the AVS HD709. It's really a big page! I notice that it also works for tuning up your video on your computer monitor, which would be extremely helpful for me if can get some true colors on my old PointView CRT monitor. What I'd like to know is that if you make the disc & use it, does it change settings all by itself? I'd like to have a choice. But as for my new 50PS64 tv, why would I need to go through all that if I'm absolutely thrilled to the gills with the way I've set it up all by myself, and without going to much trouble?

You know, I've never really understood about discs to help you reset video; obviously I've never used one. I've always thought that I'd need one that comes with nice glossy photos to match to a set of static screen displays; then I could adjust the display until each one duplicated its corresponding photo. IOW, I don't care about readings or what a disc tells me I should be seeing and love. In saying this, I realize I am showing complete ignorance and naivety; but I can't help it. I'm so very happy w/what my new set looks like now with minimal tweaking. "Happiness lies not in having what you want, but in wanting what you have." Well, I've doubled-down on that maxim: both parts are true for me with my new Pani!

To avoid screen image retention, are the station/network logos that appear on the screen bottom harmful during the break-in period? IOW, should I avoid watching one channel for more than a couple of hours? These logos, of course, do disappear on most channels during commercials, but I often skip thru those. I am limiting stations with permanent bars at screen bottom (CNN, etc.) to an hour at most, during break-in.

When searching for the AVS HD709 page, I came across instructions for how to get the number of hours watched so far from the tv itself, but it didn’t apply to the PS64. Although the method had a huge number of steps, it would be helpful to use occasionally to see if you’re approaching your 300 hours of usage. Is this possible for the PS64 sets? And if so, how can it be done, if anyone knows?

Black clipping or white clipping or "crushed blacks" as some say, are when you have brightness set too high so that it washes out your screen and you can't see darker colors or when you have brightness too low that it's so dark that you can't see the details. You don't want either extreme, but somewhere in the middle where you can see the darkest details and the brightest colors (I hope I am saying this right).

The AVS HD709 disc won't automatically change settings or reset settings. It simply has calibration patterns that you display and adjust your settings so that you can see as many shades of whites, blacks, and colors and where it should fade to completely black and/or white as well as adjusting contrast so that it doesn't get too fuzzy or sharp (line bleeding?).

It's advisable to avoid those static network logos for long periods so you don't get IR. I mainly worried about stations like NBCSportsNetwork where there is a fixed bar at the bottom of the screen with their logo and information crawlers that stays there even during commercials. Otherwise, even fast forwarding through commercials where the whole screen changes, I believe is enough to keep logos from burning in.

I didn't see the instructions for seeing the number of hours your set has been on on the AVS HD709 page. The instructions for viewing hours for the S60/S64 sets is a few pages back on the S60 thread, and I also noticed the OP pasted a link to viewing this, but I'm not sure if those work as they are not specifically for these models and I haven't tried those.
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post #276 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 01:10 PM
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Just purchased the Panasonic TC-50PS64 from Costco over the weekend. Running a break-in DVD and noticing a 1-pixel wide Yellow Line on the Left side of the screen and a 1-pixel wide Purple Line on the right side (both Vertical Lines).

Would this be the sign of a bad panel or is this typical to see in the first few hours running the TV? I have hooked it up to different sources including Blu-ray Player, Popcorn Hour, and regular DVD player and seeing this on all sources.

Any advice!?
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post #277 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 02:29 PM
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Still enjoying my TV very much, though some harsh phosphor trailing is still apparent. I'm not sure if I've breached the 100 hour mark, so I'm giving people the benefit of the doubt that it will become less harsh over time.

The HT Guys actually read my email on their podcast recently, and I'm just hoping that whatever my TV is doing is normal. It's hard to explain, but if my eyes dart around the screen especially during high contrast action scenes, I can see many colors due to the phosphors changing color. It's not so bad that I want to get rid of the TV, but it's annoying enough to be noticeable.

I wish I could get a second opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about. Mentioning this to my girlfriend would be a sure fire way to get my head on a platter, as I've already bombarded her with enough TV problems over the past year. Is there any way to show people online what I'm talking about, or possibly have a tech visit my house to take a look at it?

Again, I want to get many more hours on the TV and give people the benefit of the doubt on this one. I'm hoping that the set is just 'harsh' out of the box and will settle down over time. I don't suppose there is a way to see how many hours I've put into the TV?

I've had it since the 9th. Since then, I've probably gamed on it for about 4-5 hours. I run slides when I can, but not all the time because I don't like leaving it on all the time. I've probably run slides for...I want to say 60 hours possibly? I've also kept several movies on while I'm at home to just let it run with 'normal' viewing (with picture format zoomed of course). If anyone else has experienced anything like this with a plasma your reassurance would be most helpful smile.gif

(Again, it's most noticeable at night with little ambient lighting. There are times during the day when I don't realize it at all. The most brutal example of the trailing is in anything black and white, like the game The Unfinished Swan. I can definitely see some ghosting/trailing when I pan quickly, but this is likely a torture test for ANY plasma)
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post #278 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 03:49 PM
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PogueSquadron - If it's any consolation, my set has the exact same issue. I watch a lot of baseball and it's especially noticeable on throws to first base. The brightness of the white uniforms contributes to the phosphor trailing. I've learned to deal with it since the TV has so many outstanding qualities. You just can't get a better deal for $600.
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post #279 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 03:51 PM
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I'm kind of thinking that the bright whites are just SO white, like the phosphors are going crazy on them, resulting in a sort of throbbing. If have to imagine that as the panel ages, these phosphors won't be able to get so ridiculously bright (I definitely notice the effect less on a bright day or with brightness/contrast lowered). It just makes me want to age the panel like crazy to get past this initial break in period.
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post #280 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuwlness View Post

Just purchased the Panasonic TC-50PS64 from Costco over the weekend. Running a break-in DVD and noticing a 1-pixel wide Yellow Line on the Left side of the screen and a 1-pixel wide Purple Line on the right side (both Vertical Lines).

Would this be the sign of a bad panel or is this typical to see in the first few hours running the TV? I have hooked it up to different sources including Blu-ray Player, Popcorn Hour, and regular DVD player and seeing this on all sources.

Any advice!?

Same thing happened to my 65PS64. Its defective.

Return it for another unit.

Xbox Live & PSN gamertag- Daekwan
www.facebook.com/Daekwan
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post #281 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 06:48 PM
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Where can I buy one at 65ps64?
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post #282 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboLNT5265 View Post

Before changing the settings do you guys recommend so many hours on the set first before doing that. Better to leave it like it is right out of the box inless it is ungodly bad?

I'm setting it up for my Aunt and Uncle and I won't be there for the break in period. What do you recommend I tell them? how to handle their tv watching?

I will show them about the anti image retention bar thing to run. How often should they run that?

They have never had HD Cable before they have just been watching SD Cable Television so I'm sure it will look unbelievable to them.

Any other things I should tell them?

it's Comcast Cable

Panasonic TC-50PS64

How many picture modes on this set and which one should they be watching when breaking in the set?

Jimbo,

I can't answer all of those questions so I'll take a shot at the ones I think I'm familiar with:

I don't think any settings are likely to harm the panel, but any that are overly bright may exaggerate the plasma trailing (blurring) that your aunt & uncle see at first.

I would suggest trying CNET's settings on a new set since they were worked up on a very low hours panel whereas fairchild99's current settings are on a significantly aged set. I would suggest they avoid black bars. That is, if the content only covers part of the screen, then use sidecut zoom aspect ratio to enlarge the picture so that there are no black bars visible. I would suggest running little or no black bars for the first 300 to 400 hours. Opinions on this will vary and I've no proof that number is right.

As for IR, I've read that the built in screen wipe tool does little to nothing. Instead, maybe purchase the Disney Wow disk for them and show them how to use pixel flipper. That is highly effective at quickly removing any IR in my experience. It is the best IR "eraser" I've heard of, but there could be better. They may not even need it, just saying it might be a good idea to have it on hand if they are concerned about IR. I've fallen asleep and had Amazon vids menu on bright settings for 5 hours and saw some IR. Pixel flipper got rid of it pronto though on some other days, just running regular old content got it gone in a few hours. It was mild enough, I generally didn't see it except on slides or scenes that had a lot of screen in one color.

There are 5 picture modes: Vivid, standard, home theater, cinema and custom. If you decide to use out of the box settings, I would suggest probably cinema though I didn't run factory presets long enough to really remember.

Vivid is useless in my humble opinion because it overdrives colors so badly. I don't know that it would damage anything but it would probably have terrible plasma trailing. I don't remember much about the rest because I went to fairchild99's shared settings on his then 300 hour panel and was pretty happy with that. There was a small amount of red push in faces and greys at first probably because my set was 300 hours or more behind. Still, it worked fine.

I tried slides but discontinued them at 66 hours because I decided they might be increasing red push. I can't prove that, it was just an instinctive call.

You could try fairchild99's shared settings right now, but those are from a 1300 plus hour set. I don't think they would hurt anything but I doubt settings after that many hours would look right on a near zero hour set.

Please make sure that CATS is shut off in all picture modes as well as in ECO settings. That latter is: Menu, setup, eco navigation, CATS off, power save to standard. I've also set energy saving mode to quick start, but I'm not sure if that one will cause the radical screen dimming the other 2 can cause or not. However, the description for energy saving mode makes it sound like it might indirectly reset some things and thereby might? cause the infamous severely stepped dimming as room light goes down.

There are probably a couple of settings I've forgotten. Hopefully others will fill in the gaps and/or correct any mistakes in my recollection.

Best of luck.


Quote:
Originally Posted by kuwlness View Post

Just purchased the Panasonic TC-50PS64 from Costco over the weekend. Running a break-in DVD and noticing a 1-pixel wide Yellow Line on the Left side of the screen and a 1-pixel wide Purple Line on the right side (both Vertical Lines).

Would this be the sign of a bad panel or is this typical to see in the first few hours running the TV? I have hooked it up to different sources including Blu-ray Player, Popcorn Hour, and regular DVD player and seeing this on all sources.

Any advice!?

To clarify: With the vertical lines you are seeing, I take it they are out in the viewing area and not at the extreme edges of the screen?

Really sorry to hear it. That's 2 we've read of recently. I agree with Daekwan; sounds like a swap is in order.


mm
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post #283 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 08:02 PM - Thread Starter
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oops, dupe post.
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post #284 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daekwan View Post

Same thing happened to my 65PS64. Its defective.

Return it for another unit.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post


To clarify: With the vertical lines you are seeing, I take it they are out in the viewing area and not at the extreme edges of the screen?

Really sorry to hear it. That's 2 we've read of recently. I agree with Daekwan; sounds like a swap is in order.

mm


Thank you both for a quick answer!! I took it back to Costco to exchange it, will be testing the new unit tomorrow.

I was seeing the lines on the far viewing area of the screen, basically the first row of pixels on both the left and right side were discolored. You could notice it on any color besides Black, but it was most prevalent and obvious when it was on an all White image.

Thanx again guys!! smile.gif
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post #285 of 769 Old 08-19-2013, 09:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kuwlness View Post


Thank you both for a quick answer!! I took it back to Costco to exchange it, will be testing the new unit tomorrow.

I was seeing the lines on the far viewing area of the screen, basically the first row of pixels on both the left and right side were discolored. You could notice it on any color besides Black, but it was most prevalent and obvious when it was on an all White image.

Thanx again guys!! smile.gif

YW & welcome to the AVS forum and the S64 thread! cool.gif

Here's hoping you'll keep us up to date on your observations regarding your S64.

mm

edit: One well known problem with being in these forums: Once somethimg is seen, we can't "unsee" it. If standing very close to my 65PS64 and staring at the right edge of the screen, with certain very light color backgrounds I can see a slightly red line at the extreme right edge of the screen. More of a faint pink glow than a red line, really. I can't see it from seated position, but I can sure imagine it. wink.gifrolleyes.gif I've gotta stop reading the AVS forum before I go nuts. tongue.gif Seriously, not sure it would be present with all content types. Setting overscan OR pixel orbiter to ON or Hsize to 2 doesn't seem to change it.

(A question for anyone: Would running pixel orbiter be likely to have any positive or negative effect on the above over the long term? I notice that Wow pixel flipper really works the heck out of the edges of the screen with a lot of dense activity. Is that likely to help or hurt over time? Or is it that neither is likely to have any effect?)

I don't see a similar yellow line or 'halo' or whatever on the left. Go figure.

I expect the severity could vary from none to bad, so I'm not questioning your reasoning for swapping the panel. I'm ok with my s64 as is but hope it doesn't get worse or maybe I get neurotic about it..

Guessing now, but I think my panel has about 700 hours on it, so it's unknown to me if it got better or worse after whatever the break in period is.

Ok, trying to forget about this now... anyone know a psychologist specializing in TV related OCD?? biggrin.gif
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post #286 of 769 Old 08-20-2013, 01:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MountainMichael View Post

Jimbo,

I can't answer all of those questions so I'll take a shot at the ones I think I'm familiar with:

I don't think any settings are likely to harm the panel, but any that are overly bright may exaggerate the plasma trailing (blurring) that your aunt & uncle see at first.

I would suggest trying CNET's settings on a new set since they were worked up on a very low hours panel whereas fairchild99's current settings are on a significantly aged set. I would suggest they avoid black bars. That is, if the content only covers part of the screen, then use sidecut zoom aspect ratio to enlarge the picture so that there are no black bars visible. I would suggest running little or no black bars for the first 300 to 400 hours. Opinions on this will vary and I've no proof that number is right.

As for IR, I've read that the built in screen wipe tool does little to nothing. Instead, maybe purchase the Disney Wow disk for them and show them how to use pixel flipper. That is highly effective at quickly removing any IR in my experience. It is the best IR "eraser" I've heard of, but there could be better. They may not even need it, just saying it might be a good idea to have it on hand if they are concerned about IR. I've fallen asleep and had Amazon vids menu on bright settings for 5 hours and saw some IR. Pixel flipper got rid of it pronto though on some other days, just running regular old content got it gone in a few hours. It was mild enough, I generally didn't see it except on slides or scenes that had a lot of screen in one color.

There are 5 picture modes: Vivid, standard, home theater, cinema and custom. If you decide to use out of the box settings, I would suggest probably cinema though I didn't run factory presets long enough to really remember.

Vivid is useless in my humble opinion because it overdrives colors so badly. I don't know that it would damage anything but it would probably have terrible plasma trailing. I don't remember much about the rest because I went to fairchild99's shared settings on his then 300 hour panel and was pretty happy with that. There was a small amount of red push in faces and greys at first probably because my set was 300 hours or more behind. Still, it worked fine.

I tried slides but discontinued them at 66 hours because I decided they might be increasing red push. I can't prove that, it was just an instinctive call.

You could try fairchild99's shared settings right now, but those are from a 1300 plus hour set. I don't think they would hurt anything but I doubt settings after that many hours would look right on a near zero hour set.

Please make sure that CATS is shut off in all picture modes as well as in ECO settings. That latter is: Menu, setup, eco navigation, CATS off, power save to standard. I've also set energy saving mode to quick start, but I'm not sure if that one will cause the radical screen dimming the other 2 can cause or not. However, the description for energy saving mode makes it sound like it might indirectly reset some things and thereby might? cause the infamous severely stepped dimming as room light goes down.

There are probably a couple of settings I've forgotten. Hopefully others will fill in the gaps and/or correct any mistakes in my recollection.

Best of luck.
To clarify: With the vertical lines you are seeing, I take it they are out in the viewing area and not at the extreme edges of the screen?

Really sorry to hear it. That's 2 we've read of recently. I agree with Daekwan; sounds like a swap is in order.


mm


Thanks very much for your help, couple more questions where are Cnet's settings and what mode do you suggest I use if I go with Cnet's? Most likely I will see how it is right out of the box and go with your suggestion on the Cinema mode. If it's not to my liking I will go and use Cnet's.and then drop back later and go with FairChilds after the set has some hours on it.


Are these the ones you are suggesting from CNET onthe S60 ? Cinema Mode?
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-591233/panasonic-tc-p50s60-picture-settings/?tag=mncol;2f
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post #287 of 769 Old 08-20-2013, 09:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimboLNT5265 View Post

Thanks very much for your help, couple more questions where are Cnet's settings and what mode do you suggest I use if I go with Cnet's? Most likely I will see how it is right out of the box and go with your suggestion on the Cinema mode. If it's not to my liking I will go and use Cnet's.and then drop back later and go with FairChilds after the set has some hours on it.


Are these the ones you are suggesting from CNET onthe S60 ? Cinema Mode?
http://forums.cnet.com/7723-19410_102-591233/panasonic-tc-p50s60-picture-settings/?tag=mncol;2f

YW. Yes, those are exactly the settings I'm suggesting trying at low hours.

Since CNET worked them up in Cinema mode, I would strongly suggest staying with that. fairchild99 has been outspoken that different modes respond very differently during calibration.

Likewise, I would suggest to most that if you're trying anyone's shared settings, please do use the picture mode where they worked up those settings, otherwise, things will probably be pretty out of whack.

I totally agree with seeing how it is right out of the box and trying the various modes. Most find a couple of the supplied modes to be better than usually expected for factory supplied settings. Others disagree totally with that. wink.gif While I'm new to bigscreens & so this should be taken with a pinch of salt, I thought it was pretty good. Until I saw something better! biggrin.gif

The only shared settings I'm aware of thus far are from S60's, but they seem to work fine on S64's within some limitations: That is, no shared settings will ALWAYS work due to large amounts of panel variation even within the same model line. Also, some believe large amounts of panel aging differential between set calibrated and set using shared settings will throw in a big wild card, too. I'm in that camp though I can't prove it.
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post #288 of 769 Old 08-20-2013, 09:44 PM - Thread Starter
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post #289 of 769 Old 08-20-2013, 10:59 PM
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Could slides, like you said, somehow trigger a color bias in any direction? I've only recently realized that I've been running slides at the wrong settings (on cinema isntead of custom), so I hope it doesn't make things weird when I go to change settings. Regardless - will it really matter after months and months of usage? Shouldn't it all theoretically level out, since at some point we'll all stop using slides and stick to normal content?

I'm not sure I'll be using any of the shared settings. I want to see how far my WOW disc takes me, and if I see any improvement from the shared settings, I'll use those, and if not, I'll keep them at default.
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post #290 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 08:24 AM
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Hey everyone,

I recently bought a 65" S64. I ran the slides for over 100 hours, and then used modified fairchild settings (Cinema was just too dark for me).

I'm running into a couple problems.

#1 I'm having a strange black shadow effect. I'll try to explain. Sometimes an actor on the TV raises their hand, I'll see a black, rectangle-shaped translucent 'shadow' going from the person's hand to the edge of TV.

The same effect is seen when I use Time Warner Cable's menu that is only in the center of the screen (like a rectangle in the center of the screen, but you can still see a few inches of the normal content on each side of the menu). Whichever words I'm highlighting in the menu, will have this black shadow appear from the edge of the menu to the edge of the screen.

#2 I'm having some vertical banding in motion. When there's a panning shot in a bright scene especially, I'll sometimes see thin black vertical lines.

This one is stumping me because I had this issue on my Vizio LCD LED (M3D550KD), and I eventually convinced the manufacturer to take it back and refund me. I thought it was a problem inherent to LED's, and didn't expect to also see it on a plasma, even if its a little less frequent.

Thanks for the help guys.

I really like this TV, even thought it's a bit more than I wanted to spend. Hopefully my settings are off or something simple.
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post #291 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PogueSquadron View Post

Could slides, like you said, somehow trigger a color bias in any direction? I've only recently realized that I've been running slides at the wrong settings (on cinema isntead of custom), so I hope it doesn't make things weird when I go to change settings. Regardless - will it really matter after months and months of usage? Shouldn't it all theoretically level out, since at some point we'll all stop using slides and stick to normal content?

I'm not sure I'll be using any of the shared settings. I want to see how far my WOW disc takes me, and if I see any improvement from the shared settings, I'll use those, and if not, I'll keep them at default.

PogueSquadron,

I don't know for certain and certainly can't prove it. What I thought I was seeing could have been subjective. I suspect this because a LOT of people have run D-Nice's slides with good results and because D-Nice knows a lot more about this than me. I'd suggest doing as you said; run correct settings when running slides.

For others who hope to try fairchild99's settings or CNET settings, I would suggest maybe no slides so that break in is done the same way as the contributors of those shared settings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle6 View Post

Hey everyone,

I recently bought a 65" S64. I ran the slides for over 100 hours, and then used modified fairchild settings (Cinema was just too dark for me).

I'm running into a couple problems.

#1 I'm having a strange black shadow effect. I'll try to explain. Sometimes an actor on the TV raises their hand, I'll see a black, rectangle-shaped translucent 'shadow' going from the person's hand to the edge of TV.

The same effect is seen when I use Time Warner Cable's menu that is only in the center of the screen (like a rectangle in the center of the screen, but you can still see a few inches of the normal content on each side of the menu). Whichever words I'm highlighting in the menu, will have this black shadow appear from the edge of the menu to the edge of the screen.

#2 I'm having some vertical banding in motion. When there's a panning shot in a bright scene especially, I'll sometimes see thin black vertical lines.

This one is stumping me because I had this issue on my Vizio LCD LED (M3D550KD), and I eventually convinced the manufacturer to take it back and refund me. I thought it was a problem inherent to LED's, and didn't expect to also see it on a plasma, even if its a little less frequent.

Thanks for the help guys.

I really like this TV, even thought it's a bit more than I wanted to spend. Hopefully my settings are off or something simple.

Good questions but out of my league. I hope Roger or Randy or fairchild99 might have some answers or suggestions for you.

mm
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post #292 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 11:01 AM - Thread Starter
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In pm conversation with fairchild99, he kindly gave me permission to post some of his earlier settings. These might be tried as an alternative for persons with new or low hours panels if fairchild99's currently posted 1400+ hour settings aren't doing what some owners want.

IOW, if you aren't seeing what you want for colors and such and if you suspect a big difference in panel phosphor aging between a newer panel and fairchild99's might be part of it, you could try these lower hour settings to see if you like them.

fairchild99 asked that I use the early settings but not the earliest. That is, use the first settings with his new instrumentation as he had learned through his testing that the old instrument had "drifted" and was yielding an average color temp that was too cool.

What were the hours on his panel at this time? I'm hoping perhaps fairchild99 may remember more exactly or can estimate based on usage back then, but on a calibration he shared 04/19/2013, he stated that his panel usage was at 344 hours.

Below are 2 of fairchild99's calibrations; one in Cinema picture mode and one in Custom picture mode both from the same time frame. All credit goes to fairchild99 for the below. Any errors are mine and will be corrected upon request from fairchild99.

fairchild99's text follows:


04/26/2013


Just had a nice long nearly 3 hour session calibrating with my new Colormunki Spectro. I compared the settings I was using before which ended up having a DE of 8.54 (30-100) and 2.23 for the primary/secondaries, so the i1 LT seemed to be off by a bit with grayscale. (basically according to the new spectro, the i1 LT colorimeter I was using was reading red too low and blue too high, I had an avg of around 7500-7000 color temp which is much cooler. Now I redid the calibration in both Custom and Cinema. I used 10% apl patterns from the GCD disk and calibrated with 75% amp 100% saturation and attained an avg de of 1.13 (30-100) for the grayscale with 2.25 gamma and avg de of 1.64 for the primary/secondary:

Quote:

Cinema
con 78
bright -2
color 50
tint 0
sharp 0
Warm2
vivid off
cats off
video nr off

mpeg nr off
Pro
panel Mid
AGC 0
black ext 0
color gamut normal

w/b
high R -1
high G 0
high B -2

low R 7
low G 0
low B 6

cms
R hue -17
R sat -3
R lum -7

G hue -1
G sat -13
G lum -7

B hue 1
B sat 0
B lum 1

gamma 2.4

Now this one was done in Custom, used AVS HD 709 window patterns with 100% color window patterns. This one has a bit more punch in it because the colors are calibrated with a higher amplitude. Avg DE of 1.55 (30-100) with avg gamma of 2.26 and avg DE of 1.69 for primary/secondary.

Quote:

custom
con 82
bright -4
color 50
tint 0
sharp 0
warm2
vivid off
cats off
video nr off

mpeg nr off
pro
panel mid
agc 0
black ext 0
color gamut normal

w/b
high R -3
high G 0
high B 2

low R 12
low G 0
low B -4

color
R hue -8
R sat -12
R lum -14

G hue 3
G sat -5
G lum -9

B hue 1
B sat 2
B lum -11

gamma 2.4

I'm definitely seeing neutral grays, especially on this forum, the grays don't shift towards red but definitely the picture will look more red for starters if you were using my old settings, because as I said they were too cool, my meter was reading red too low and blue too high. Even though it was calibrating to 6500k, in actuality it was closer to 7000-7500k. Also I am seeing the red dithering in near black on the brightness clipping pattern, but it's not affecting actual video content. Will go through some blu-rays to check how they look (Avatar and the Dark Knight) and also watch some sports tonight and see how everything is looking.


I'm personally digging the Cinema settings a bit more, less punchy picture as far as color's, but I think that's the more accurate for plasma's.

Hope you guys enjoy.
Edited by fairchild99 - 04/26/2013 at 12:53 pm
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post #293 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle6 View Post

I recently bought a 65" S64. I ran the slides for over 100 hours, and then used modified fairchild settings (Cinema was just too dark for me).

I'm running into a couple problems.

#1 I'm having a strange black shadow effect. I'll try to explain. Sometimes an actor on the TV raises their hand, I'll see a black, rectangle-shaped translucent 'shadow' going from the person's hand to the edge of TV.

The same effect is seen when I use Time Warner Cable's menu that is only in the center of the screen (like a rectangle in the center of the screen, but you can still see a few inches of the normal content on each side of the menu). Whichever words I'm highlighting in the menu, will have this black shadow appear from the edge of the menu to the edge of the screen.

#2 I'm having some vertical banding in motion. When there's a panning shot in a bright scene especially, I'll sometimes see thin black vertical lines.

This one is stumping me because I had this issue on my Vizio LCD LED (M3D550KD), and I eventually convinced the manufacturer to take it back and refund me. I thought it was a problem inherent to LED's, and didn't expect to also see it on a plasma, even if its a little less frequent.

I really like this TV, even thought it's a bit more than I wanted to spend. Hopefully my settings are off or something simple.

I suspect the problems are related to your cable box or Time Warner since they occurred with both LCD and plasma sets. Maybe try tweaking your cable menu settings for 1080i or native output or something?

Yeah, I ended up spending 50% more than my original budget for this TV, but am very happy with it. I'd rather spend more for quality and performance than skimp on something and have regrets later for something I plan to keep around for 10+ years.
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post #294 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 01:31 PM
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I watched about an hour's worth of football last night and did notice motion blurring close up as well as 10 feet away on my 65S64. It was Saturday's Broncos game playback on DVR, so I don't know if the hard drive playback has anything to do with it. If I understand correctly, motion blurring is a problem with both plasma and LCD technology? Other than that and one instance of posterization after settling on Cinema mode and my setting tweaks, I have no complaints.
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post #295 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I suspect the problems are related to your cable box or Time Warner since they occurred with both LCD and plasma sets. Maybe try tweaking your cable menu settings for 1080i or native output or something?

Yeah, I ended up spending 50% more than my original budget for this TV, but am very happy with it. I'd rather spend more for quality and performance than skimp on something and have regrets later for something I plan to keep around for 10+ years.

Agreed that it's better to have something you'll like more than saving some money.

As for the banding, I've seen that on every possible input: cable, ps3, native apps, etc. I had to fight with Vizio for months to get them to agree to take it back, after 4 replacements.

The banding on the s64 I've also noticed on a ps3.

As for the weird black shadow effect.

I have no idea what it is or what causes it.
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post #296 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 03:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle6 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTimeShifter View Post

I suspect the problems are related to your cable box or Time Warner since they occurred with both LCD and plasma sets. Maybe try tweaking your cable menu settings for 1080i or native output or something?

Yeah, I ended up spending 50% more than my original budget for this TV, but am very happy with it. I'd rather spend more for quality and performance than skimp on something and have regrets later for something I plan to keep around for 10+ years.

Agreed that it's better to have something you'll like more than saving some money.

As for the banding, I've seen that on every possible input: cable, ps3, native apps, etc. I had to fight with Vizio for months to get them to agree to take it back, after 4 replacements.

The banding on the s64 I've also noticed on a ps3.

As for the weird black shadow effect.

I have no idea what it is or what causes it.

Did you hook up all your inputs directly to the TV or are they going through an AVR?
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post #297 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 03:44 PM
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Could that black shadow be a form of line bleed? If the bright hand/person doesn't jive well with its background? How often does it happen?

I only notice line bleed in very particular circumstances, like in a game of You Don't Know Jack or a menu in a game or the "This film has been approved for all audiences" screen before a movie trailer.
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post #298 of 769 Old 08-21-2013, 08:25 PM
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HDTimeShifter: Everything is connected directly through HDMI.

Pogue: you think so?

It seems like its in the foreground.

Is that your experience?

I'll try to take a picture.
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post #299 of 769 Old 08-22-2013, 09:44 AM
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Upon further research, apparently this black shadow is textbook line bleed. I've never heard of this issue before when reading plasma reviews. It's extremely annoying.

Here's a picture for reference: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/tt230/4e5ecbab.jpg

Is there anything that can be done to make it less obvious? Would replacement possibly work?

As for the vertical lines during panning, people seem to file this under the Dirty Screen Effect (DSE). Seems disingenuous, but dark thin solid vertical lines in panning shots is extremely similar to LED LCD's.

Is there any solution to that?
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post #300 of 769 Old 08-22-2013, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cradle6 View Post

Upon further research, apparently this black shadow is textbook line bleed. I've never heard of this issue before when reading plasma reviews. It's extremely annoying.

Here's a picture for reference: http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/tt230/4e5ecbab.jpg

Is there anything that can be done to make it less obvious? Would replacement possibly work?

As for the vertical lines during panning, people seem to file this under the Dirty Screen Effect (DSE). Seems disingenuous, but dark thin solid vertical lines in panning shots is extremely similar to LED LCD's.

Is the line bleed only visible on solid color screen content?

I'm not familiar with DSE, but I wonder if it's possible to have vertical line bleed?
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