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post #271 of 1014 Old 03-11-2014, 07:26 AM
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It's not the settings it's the color tempeture and I'm tired of trying settings that people did not put that much time in, you only need cool for video games and medium for regular tv, warm 1,2 are for movies
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post #272 of 1014 Old 03-11-2014, 10:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sabansosic93 View Post

It's not the settings it's the color tempeture and I'm tired of trying settings that people did not put that much time in, you only need cool for video games and medium for regular tv, warm 1,2 are for movies
Well am sure I put really good time for mine and am very happy with them.
I want my picture as natural looking as possible and colors as close to Rec.709 as possible.
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post #273 of 1014 Old 03-11-2014, 07:46 PM
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You lost me their, what is rec.709
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post #274 of 1014 Old 03-11-2014, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by sabansosic93 View Post

You lost me their, what is rec.709
Well if you have to ask.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rec._709
Also guys have a look at this, it made me understand some things I didn't know about calibration.
http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=35322
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post #275 of 1014 Old 03-13-2014, 01:19 PM
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You lost me their, what is rec.709

:-)
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post #276 of 1014 Old 03-15-2014, 12:02 AM
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Anyone that bought a PN43F4500 or PN43F4550 recently...

Is the firmware version on your plasma newer than what Samsung has posted on their site (1027.2)...?

Inquiring minds would like to know...


To check your firmware version:

Open Menu >
goto Support >
goto Contact Samsung >
look at Software Version (it will be the last 4 or 5 numbers)


Thanks in advance smile.gif.

I'm like a beaver...
A hot little beaver...
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post #277 of 1014 Old 03-16-2014, 03:32 PM
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Hi, I have a F4900 only had it a few days, but did some fiddling with the white balance and CMS. I used a DTP94 profiled to an i1 pro for white balance and just the i1 pro for the CMS.

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post #278 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 03:22 AM
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Hey guys just got this TV for relatively cheap. 319$ish. It was refurb. They said it was a E450 but instead I got the f4500 =(. Don't know if I should be happy or sad since I wanted a plasma for gaming and the e450 had a much lower input lag.

Anyways what is the best settings so far? Has anyone tried game mode on this and is it worth using? Should I do a software update?
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post #279 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 01:05 PM
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Just bought a new PN43PF4500 from best buy. I've noticed that if I turn the cell light above 7, I see what must be many hundreds of tiny green dots on black backgrounds, especially end credits. They are sort of bunched into waves and move randomly left and right while going up from the bottom of the screen to top. This is from both hdmi inputs using a chromecast stick. Switching cell light from 7 to 8 is like flipping a switch. 7 and below=not dots, 8 and above=dots. I didn't notice them from my normal seating distance, but walking up to the screen, they are visible. Any ideas?
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post #280 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.costanza View Post

Just bought a new PN43PF4500 from best buy. I've noticed that if I turn the cell light above 7, I see what must be many hundreds of tiny green dots on black backgrounds, especially end credits. They are sort of bunched into waves and move randomly left and right while going up from the bottom of the screen to top. This is from both hdmi inputs using a chromecast stick. Switching cell light from 7 to 8 is like flipping a switch. 7 and below=not dots, 8 and above=dots. I didn't notice them from my normal seating distance, but walking up to the screen, they are visible. Any ideas?


Once you break the set in these "black dithers" will settle out.  Read my previous post to see where I am currently acheiving full black on my 3 month old set.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #281 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harrywang View Post

Hey guys just got this TV for relatively cheap. 319$ish. It was refurb. They said it was a E450 but instead I got the f4500 =(. Don't know if I should be happy or sad since I wanted a plasma for gaming and the e450 had a much lower input lag.

Anyways what is the best settings so far? Has anyone tried game mode on this and is it worth using? Should I do a software update?


You should be very happy as you got one of the best gaming TVs money can buy, IMO.  Not sure what the official "measurements" are, but if anyone tells you they can notice any lag on this TV, especially in game mode, they are full of it.  I play almost solely twitch retro games on it through an RGB SCART > Component converter and I find lag

to be non-existent.  Game mode also looks better than non-game mode, especially with 2D retro games.

 

I wrote quite a bit about gaming in this thread. Read it and you should find what you are looking for.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #282 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 03:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post


You should be very happy as you got one of the best gaming TVs money can buy, IMO.  Not sure what the official "measurements" are, but if anyone tells you they can notice any lag on this TV, especially in game mode, they are full of it.  I play almost solely twitch retro games on it through an RGB SCART > Component converter and I find lag
to be non-existent.  Game mode also looks better than non-game mode, especially with 2D retro games.

I wrote quite a bit about gaming in this thread. Read it and you should find what you are looking for.

Josh, I understand your enthusiasm about your TV. But this is a sciene forum, so attempts to identify numeric value is more helpful than simply saying "non-existant" because scientifically speaking, that statement is not true. We've had some F8500 owners saying they didn't have input lag and Fierce_GT's measurements proved otherwise.

Now, with that said, I don't trust Leo Bodnar input lag tester, especially when it involves plasmas. Just too much variances. There could be also other factors playing. Maybe your F4500 has better input lag on component than HDMI. Happened in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually true.

I also consider the F4500 the best gaming TV for 720p games. While it may lose out in resolution compared to true 720p HDTVs, it more than makes up with the second best brightness/ABL handling after the F8500. (Hitting almost 160 cd/m2 on 20% ABL is REALLY REALLY good) And seeing as the multi-thousand dollar F8500 keeps losing MLL with subsequent firmware updates, it's really closer to the F4500 than before and that really makes the F4500 a screaming bargain.

I personally decided to go with the H5000. Pentile really sucks for games, but just like the F4500, resolution alone is not the only matter.
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post #283 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 03:32 PM
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Thanks for the response guys it's very helpful. That being said yes this TV does have input lag just go to www.displaylag.com

Does game mode reduce the input lag if anyone knows? I have heard 1 report that on the e450 game mode actually increases input lag. If I were to use game mode would I need to calibrate it for better pictures or just leave it the way it is?
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post #284 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 03:42 PM
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Thanks! I'm seeing 2 different kinds of dancing pixels on this brand new plasma. One type sort or swirls around randomly. Sort of like 'noise". I also saw those on an old but faithful panny plasma I had. The second type is weird. They move randomly but clearly flow up and towards the left. They are most prominent on scrolling end credits.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post


Once you break the set in these "black dithers" will settle out.  Read my previous post to see where I am currently acheiving full black on my 3 month old set.
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post #285 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 04:08 PM
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Heres a video of the green pixels flowing up the screen on a paused frame of ending credits. I can see these up to about 4 feet from the tv.
http://youtu.be/a1ukIbyPXkY
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post #286 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bizarro_Stormy View Post

Anyone that bought a PN43F4500 or PN43F4550 recently...

Is the firmware version on your plasma newer than what Samsung has posted on their site (1027.2)...?

Inquiring minds would like to know...


To check your firmware version:

Open Menu >
goto Support >
goto Contact Samsung >
look at Software Version (it will be the last 4 or 5 numbers)


Thanks in advance smile.gif.

Bueller?...

Bueller?...

Bueller?...

I'm like a beaver...
A hot little beaver...
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post #287 of 1014 Old 03-17-2014, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KOF View Post


Josh, I understand your enthusiasm about your TV. But this is a sciene forum, so attempts to identify numeric value is more helpful than simply saying "non-existant" because scientifically speaking, that statement is not true. We've had some F8500 owners saying they didn't have input lag and Fierce_GT's measurements proved otherwise.

Now, with that said, I don't trust Leo Bodnar input lag tester, especially when it involves plasmas. Just too much variances. There could be also other factors playing. Maybe your F4500 has better input lag on component than HDMI. Happened in the past, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's actually true.

I also consider the F4500 the best gaming TV for 720p games. While it may lose out in resolution compared to true 720p HDTVs, it more than makes up with the second best brightness/ABL handling after the F8500. (Hitting almost 160 cd/m2 on 20% ABL is REALLY REALLY good) And seeing as the multi-thousand dollar F8500 keeps losing MLL with subsequent firmware updates, it's really closer to the F4500 than before and that really makes the F4500 a screaming bargain.

I personally decided to go with the H5000. Pentile really sucks for games, but just like the F4500, resolution alone is not the only matter.


True, there is surely some measurable input lag but I was replying about my gaming experience with it, and in game mode at least in 240p and 480p ( I dont game enough at 720 or higher to be able to speak with any certainty, but I believe they were just about as good), I find it to be non-existant- ie I dont notice any lag whatsoever in game mode.  Now, Im not a high speed measuring device, if I were Im sure I'd see it, lol.

 

In all seriousness though, Im a retro-gamer and Megaman 2 on NES is my gold standard for lag testing-- Ive played it so much as a child, and fired it up pretty often growing up, always through composite out to a CRT that I know EXACTLY what it is supposed to feel like-- that is until I got a CRT that didnt support 240p (yeah).  I had to get a composite to HDMI converter to up the resolution above 240p to make it playable, but the lag it added made me not want to play it.  Playing it all those years I knew how it felt, the speed, the timing, and through the GefenTV converter ( a QUALITY converter mind you) the lag was just too distracting.  Playing it on the plasma though, even through the RGB to component converter (which as I understand essentially does not add any lag anyway) it feels perfect.  My timing is there, when I press a button theres no noticable lag, everything works.  Now, if using something like an XRGB-Mini, which does add lag (about 32ms) Im sure some people might notice something-- I dont have one, so I cant say for certain.

 

That said, there are also many variables to consider. The lag probably varies from resolution to resolution as the scaler has to process more or less data depending on the input resolution, with native probably being the fastest, though without testing its hard to say.

 

I also have to say there does seem to be an ever so slight difference/ barely noticable lag when not in game mode.  I do believe game mode reduces lag (and also looks better)

for what thats worth.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #288 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 01:01 AM
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Did you calibrate game mode as well? Or just left it as the same?
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post #289 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 04:01 AM
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Originally Posted by harrywang View Post

Did you calibrate game mode as well? Or just left it as the same?


I adjusted some basic settings.  Currently using:

 

Cell Light 16

Brightness  41

Contrast 95

Sharpness 100

Color 55

R/G 50/50

 

Getting completely black blacks (no dancing pixels), and the image looks great!


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #290 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 04:06 AM
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I adjusted some basic settings.  Currently using:

Cell Light 16
Brightness  41
Contrast 95
Sharpness 100
Color 55
R/G 50/50

Getting completely black blacks (no dancing pixels), and the image looks great!

Awesome I will try it out.

I know this is to much to ask but if somebody could test the input lag with game mode off/on that would be very helpful for me!

I am loving this TV so far this is the best TV I have bought.

I have been tinkering around with the settings and cnet's settings for the e450 are pretty good however the color space needs to be switched to auto or custom. I find that native makes the reds more orange and green a LOT more green which isn't natural. Auto seems to be the best right now.
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post #291 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 10:58 AM
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Found another video showing what the upward flowing green pixels on my new tv look like. Here it is ... http://youtu.be/fl0mR76LAJ0
I can see it from quite a ways back. Not just a few inches as some people experience. I can't live with it. I'm returning the tv.
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post #292 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 01:33 PM
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Wow, that is strange and the dots look huge in that video-- not your normal plasma black "dithering" or "dancing pixels".  To be clear, all plasmas Ive ever seen from Panny, Sammy, and LG have dithering pixels show up in blacks as they go from complete black to lighter shades-- but, the effect is nothing like what that video shows-- you must be about a foot or less from the set to see them.  There looks to be something genuinely wrong with the set in that video.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #293 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by harrywang View Post


Awesome I will try it out.

I know this is to much to ask but if somebody could test the input lag with game mode off/on that would be very helpful for me!

I am loving this TV so far this is the best TV I have bought.

I have been tinkering around with the settings and cnet's settings for the e450 are pretty good however the color space needs to be switched to auto or custom. I find that native makes the reds more orange and green a LOT more green which isn't natural. Auto seems to be the best right now.


Why are you worried about the lag with game mode off?  You really shouldnt need to game with it turned off because the image quality is better for games with it on.  I'd like to be able to test input lag but I dont have a laptop with video out to check.  If I can figure out an easy way, Ill try, but if you already own the set, I highly recommend you try your favorite fast twitch game on it and make your own decision, thats much more important than some arbitrary number that a test will spit out.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #294 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 06:35 PM
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Why are you worried about the lag with game mode off?  You really shouldnt need to game with it turned off because the image quality is better for games with it on.  I'd like to be able to test input lag but I dont have a laptop with video out to check.  If I can figure out an easy way, Ill try, but if you already own the set, I highly recommend you try your favorite fast twitch game on it and make your own decision, thats much more important than some arbitrary number that a test will spit out.

I play on my ps3 though with game mode off I don't think it looks as good IMO.
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post #295 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 07:05 PM
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I play on my ps3 though with game mode off I don't think it looks as good IMO.


With HD 3D graphics I agree game mode has less vibrant colors, etc.  With retro games however, 240p  2D games in particular (such as NES, SNES, Genesis), game mode off causes image motion distortion that looks pretty bad.  Its very easy to see with 240p.  Ive not played around much with 480i/480p with and without game mode, seeing the motion distortion on my retro consoles pretty much sealed the deal for me. I also use it with my 6th generation consoles and find it looks great.

 

You will notice that in any system, game mode ON causes an audio level boost and less vibrant colors, while game mode off causes a noticable drop in audio levels and more "gaudy" or "garish" colors.  Personally I have set my picture settings in game mode to produce the colors I like while not having any image motion distortion.

 

That aside, I performed a little experiment tonight, feeding my plasma with a component SNES feed, using an RCA splitter on the Y (green) output of my RGB converter to feed both my plasma and a 19" CRT simultaneously to check for lag.  I fired up FZero, which has an on screen timer counting to the hundredths of a second, and took some photos of both to see if I could notice any lag.  Note in order to get the fastest shutter speed, I had to use flash, which makes the image look pretty dim.  Turns out the 2 best pics I took show a 3 hundredths of a second or 30ms lag for the plasma.  Im not sure how accurate this is, because both the plasma and the CRT only update only once every 16.7ms, so I guess you could have as much as ~16.7ms of error, which if taken at its max error would yield about a 46ms lag for the plasma.  Note I tried in with game mode on and off.  The picture with the green car has game mode OFF, yet still shows a 3 centisecond lag.  I plan to make a video soon using the same setup. See below:

 

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/Josh128/DSCF0141_zpsaace24c3.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/Josh128/DSCF0144_zpsa342b821.jpg


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #296 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

Wow, that is strange and the dots look huge in that video-- not your normal plasma black "dithering" or "dancing pixels".  To be clear, all plasmas Ive ever seen from Panny, Sammy, and LG have dithering pixels show up in blacks as they go from complete black to lighter shades-- but, the effect is nothing like what that video shows-- you must be about a foot or less from the set to see them.  There looks to be something genuinely wrong with the set in that video.

Mine looks just like that! Completely different model too.
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post #297 of 1014 Old 03-18-2014, 08:39 PM
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With HD 3D graphics I agree game mode has less vibrant colors, etc.  With retro games however, 240p  2D games in particular (such as NES, SNES, Genesis), game mode off causes image motion distortion that looks pretty bad.  Its very easy to see with 240p.  Ive not played around much with 480i/480p with and without game mode, seeing the motion distortion on my retro consoles pretty much sealed the deal for me. I also use it with my 6th generation consoles and find it looks great.

You will notice that in any system, game mode ON causes an audio level boost and less vibrant colors, while game mode off causes a noticable drop in audio levels and more "gaudy" or "garish" colors.  Personally I have set my picture settings in game mode to produce the colors I like while not having any image motion distortion.

That aside, I performed a little experiment tonight, feeding my plasma with a component SNES feed, using an RCA splitter on the Y (green) output of my RGB converter to feed both my plasma and a 19" CRT simultaneously to check for lag.  I fired up FZero, which has an on screen timer counting to the hundredths of a second, and took some photos of both to see if I could notice any lag.  Note in order to get the fastest shutter speed, I had to use flash, which makes the image look pretty dim.  Turns out the 2 best pics I took show a 3 hundredths of a second or 30ms lag for the plasma.  Im not sure how accurate this is, because both the plasma and the CRT only update only once every 16.7ms, so I guess you could have as much as ~16.7ms of error, which if taken at its max error would yield about a 46ms lag for the plasma.  Note I tried in with game mode on and off.  The picture with the green car has game mode OFF, yet still shows a 3 centisecond lag.  I plan to make a video soon using the same setup. See below:

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/Josh128/DSCF0141_zpsaace24c3.jpg
http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n237/Josh128/DSCF0144_zpsa342b821.jpg

Awesome man this will definitely do. It seems pretty accurate as I feel NO difference between game mode OFF and ON. Thanks so much for your help! Appreciate it.

I am playing ps3 games on this TV and let me say this has to be the best TV gaming experience ever. The pictures are amazing and this really IS the best budget plasma TV of 2013, maybe even 2014 as well. I am glad I got such a good deal on this, can't be any more happier! Of course I use game mode OFF as using ON doesn't feel like it lowers input lag at all and you have pretty much just confirmed it. The E450 had a report where using game mode on actually increases input lag like I said in an earlier post so if you are playing HD games having it off is a good idea for best picture.

I would also like to share my settings, they are VERY VERY similar to CNET' E450 settings. I made minor adjustments however that best suits this model. Please give it a try guys and tell me what you think. This TV is amazing because you don't really need to calibrate it that much to get the best possible picture. Here it is

--PICTURE MENU

Mode: Movie
Cell light: 14
Contrast: 91
Brightness: 46
Sharpness: 0
Color: 50
Tint: G50/R50

--SUBMENU: ADVANCED SETTINGS
Color space: Auto
Gamma: 0
Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
Motion Lighting: Off


-SUBMENU: PICTURE OPTIONS
Color tone: Warm2
Size: 16:9
HDMI black level: Normal
Film mode: Off
Screen Burn protection [default values]

Default white balance.
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post #298 of 1014 Old 03-19-2014, 03:58 AM
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Glad you like it, it really does have a very nice picture.  I also have a 2013 Panasonic Viera 50X60 that I got a killer deal on after I got the Samsung and though it is a decent set,I've come to the conclusion that the Samsung has a much better, nicer looking picture. 

 

At the time, I almost got a similar Panasonic instead of the Samsung.  Knowing what I know now I'm SO glad I didnt.  No matter how I fiddle with the settings, I cant get the Panny to look as nearly as good as the Sammy.


Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #299 of 1014 Old 03-19-2014, 04:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post

Glad you like it, it really does have a very nice picture.  I also have a 2013 Panasonic Viera 50X60 that I got a killer deal on after I got the Samsung and though it is a decent set,I've come to the conclusion that the Samsung has a much better, nicer looking picture. 

At the time, I almost got a similar Panasonic instead of the Samsung.  Knowing what I know now I'm SO glad I didnt.  No matter how I fiddle with the settings, I cant get the Panny to look as nearly as good as the Sammy.
Believe it or not, the Panasonic X60 series was not as good as their S60, ST60, VT60, and ZT60 series. Unless you're happy with used TVs, that doesn't matter now because Panasonic, as you know, is out of the plasma game. While no one commented on the LG ##PN4500 series, after all the negative picture quality reports I read on LG's other plasmas, I would assume that the ##PN4500 is the same as their other plasmas, especially considering that it's their budget plasma and has HDMI Control. It looks like Samsung really was going for picture quality for a budget price with the PN##F4500 because it doesn't have HDMI control, and its internal speakers aren't as good as their budget UN##F5000 LCD model. I'd love HDMI control so that my receiver would turn on with my TV and I could adjust my receiver's volume via the TV's volume control. Oh well. I guess I'll have to program my One4All URC 10820 to control my TV and cablebox, and assign the volume control buttons to control my receiver. I could also add a macro which turns on the TV and then the receiver.
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post #300 of 1014 Old 03-20-2014, 10:20 AM
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Just a point of information.
If you want to know you have set your brightness too high, pop in a movie with black bars, check the bars & if you see dancing green pixels then for sure your brightness is up.
Just lower the brightness until the dancing pixels disappear.
Then using the patterns in your calib disc check if you are within the right brightness.
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