Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 822 Old Yesterday, 06:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
Here are some snapshots of panning motion on the F4500-- the first two shots are from a 30fps game (RE4), the last 3 shots are from a 60fps game (SC2).

Note that there is no ghosting effect on the 30fps game or the 60fps game with high ISO shutter speed. The last picture was taken with a low shutter speed on the 60fps game-- you can see that multiple frames were captured with the camera at a low shutter speed. I estimate the "low" shutter speed to be about 1/10th of a second, because I can count about 6 individual frames in the exposure. The high speed Im not sure about, but it must be at least 1/60th of a second.

So, in essence, there is no "double image" created by the set on 30 fps or 60fps motion. The double images you see in pictures are due to long or over exposure by the camera or your own brain, the set is not creating them. These shots were taken from about 3.5' from the screen-- note the lack of "SDE" in them as well. Even zoomed in on the original 3MP pictures there is no visible "SDE".

RE41
RE42

SC21
SC22
SC23 (slow shutter speed)
Did you break the TV whit slides or just normal viewing?

and , can u share the settings that u are using for video games , broadcast TV and movies?
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post #812 of 822 Old Yesterday, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
At 10ft there is no SDE, just a beautiful picture. Most likely you are only seeing it in the showroom because theres a 1080p set right next to it. In the home, at 10' theres no SDE, video looks identical to the 51F5300.

As far as the brightness in the showroom, Ive probably mentioned that 5 times already. You just have to believe it.
Replaced the Panasonic TH42-PZ77U plasma with the Samsung PN51F4500 last night. Wall mount worked great, just had to get shorter machine screws.
The Samsung has a pretty good picture*; no adjustments made other than turning off the eco sensor. The blacks are better than the Panny; the Panny's were a bit blotchy sometimes.
No SDE present at approx 10' viewing distance, and no discernible buzz at 7300ft. With the eco sensor off (much brighter picture) you have to get pretty close to see any SDE.
Now I just need to get the Denon AVR3313ci sent off for repair. I'm guessing a power surge or lightning strike took out the Denon's PS and spiked the HDMI, which killed the inputs on the Panny. At least I had a 5yr extended warranty on the Denon! I hope it doesn't take too long to get it back, the poor sound quality from the TV speakers is enough to make my ears bleed.

* Relatively speaking. Since the Denon is down, I'm running a composite cable from the DTV box to the TV. I did check the HDMI inputs using my Uebo M400 media player and the PQ is very good.
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post #813 of 822 Old Yesterday, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jtmarten View Post
The Samsung has a pretty good picture*; no adjustments made other than turning off the eco sensor. The blacks are better than the Panny; the Panny's were a bit blotchy sometimes.
No SDE present at approx 10' viewing distance, and no discernible buzz at 7300ft. With the eco sensor off (much brighter picture) you have to get pretty close to see any SDE.

* Relatively speaking. Since the Denon is down, I'm running a composite cable from the DTV box to the TV. I did check the HDMI inputs using my Uebo M400 media player and the PQ is very good.
Connect an antenna and check out some HD OTA channels. If you think the composite looks even halfway decent, OTA HD will blow you away!

Last edited by Josh128; Yesterday at 01:20 PM.
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post #814 of 822 Old Yesterday, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Trelkovsky View Post
Did you break the TV whit slides or just normal viewing?

and , can u share the settings that u are using for video games , broadcast TV and movies?
I stayed under cell light of 16 for the first 200 or so hours, let the set run a bunch of OTA HD, but also did quite a bit of gaming on it as well. Its seems to be very resiliant /IR resistant compared to the TC-P50X60 Panasonic I recently sold (to buy another PN51F4500).

I have yet to really rough calibrate the set (will do by Disney WOW and AVS HD 709 DVDs soon) but I am currently running approx:

For Games
Game Mode On for Retro 16 bit Titles, Off for N64/PS1 and up.
Standard-ECO off, Standard color temp, Black Opt. On
Cell Light 16 (go to 20 if ABL is noticable)
Contrast 95
Brightness 52
Sharpness 75
Color 50 - 55 (personal preference)
Tint 50/50

For OTA HD
Standard-ECO off, Standard color temp, Black Opt. On
Cell Light 18
Contrast 95
Brightness 50
Sharpness 50
Color 50 (personal preference)
Tint 50/50

*Note-- Based on my AVS HD 709 calibration disc experience on my 5300, both whites and blacks may be crushing /clipping at these levels. Colors may be clipping a bit too, but I still find these settings look incredible for my component out game systems. I dont have any gear on my 4500s that can output component signal that can run the 709 disc, so I ordered the Disney WOW DVD for them.

A lot of people (including me) have been turning their brightness to the low 40's in order to eliminate dithering on pure blacks, which seems pleasing, but when doing this (at least on the PN51F5300) it crushes the hell out of blacks. I know its not a "true" calibration without using metering equipment and such, but a simple "by eye" brightness/contrast/color calibration can completely eliminate black, white, and color crushing/clipping and doing that in my opinion is the most picture affecting / important part of a calibration anyway. The AVS HD 709 is completely free and highly recommended. The Disney WOW DVD can be had for about $13 shipped and the Blu Ray version for about $20 (also highly recommended).

Note about game mode-- while it make absolutely no difference in input lag-- I have recently discovered that turning it OFF yields smoother (less harsh) more pleasing graphics in PS2/Gamecube generation polygonal games, while turning it ON yields better (no processing blur and distortion) graphics for 2D sidescroller (8 and 16 bit generation) games.
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post #815 of 822 Old Yesterday, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Lion Rider View Post
Well, you must be lucky, I would take the F5500. The only downside is that it does not have CMS or 10p white balance for proper calibration. But from what's owners say the PQ is awesome out of the box. I stand corrected but I think they use the same panel with F4500(reflective in bright light, though to me that's not a problem).
For that price reason take the F5500
Crap. Turned out it was a typo. The 51F5500 is actually $180 more than the 51F4500. Do you think it's worth paying $180 for the 1080p resolution, smart functions, 3D and good remote? Don't think I'll be using much 3D and smart functions though.. but the extra resolution is tempting
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post #816 of 822 Old Yesterday, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jtmarten View Post
Pulled the trigger last night on the PN51F4500. Just a tad over $450 with a 3yr service contract ($38) and tax.
Will set it up tonight. I probably won't make any real display adjustments until it's had a couple hundred hours of burn in time, after that I'll peruse this entire thread for setup options.
The only spoiler will be if it has any buzz due to my elevation (7300ft).
FYI, I think Samsung suggests a max altitude of 6500 feet on its plasma TVs, while the Panasonics go up to 9000-9500 feet. The F4500 doesn't seem to run quite as hot as the F5300 though, so you might be ok with the former at ~7000 feet. I'd check for obvious odors (burning smells) coming from the TV as well as buzzing and heat.

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post #817 of 822 Old Today, 06:58 AM
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FYI, I think Samsung suggests a max altitude of 6500 feet on its plasma TVs, while the Panasonics go up to 9000-9500 feet. The F4500 doesn't seem to run quite as hot as the F5300 though, so you might be ok with the former at ~7000 feet. I'd check for obvious odors (burning smells) coming from the TV as well as buzzing and heat.
Not sure about the elevation limitations, but I can confirm the 4500 runs much cooler than the 5300.
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post #818 of 822 Old Today, 06:59 AM
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Crap. Turned out it was a typo. The 51F5500 is actually $180 more than the 51F4500. Do you think it's worth paying $180 for the 1080p resolution, smart functions, 3D and good remote? Don't think I'll be using much 3D and smart functions though.. but the extra resolution is tempting
The best way to see if the resolution difference is worth $180 is to watch both Tvs side by side.(propably in a store). Depending on the distance you sit from the tv then you can decide if resolution matters.
From what Josh is experiencing the F4500 turns out to be the best for your buck.
From my experience in a store there is no PQ difference between the two and the F4500 might be better after calibration.
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post #819 of 822 Old Today, 09:34 AM
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The best way to see if the resolution difference is worth $180 is to watch both Tvs side by side.(propably in a store). Depending on the distance you sit from the tv then you can decide if resolution matters.
From what Josh is experiencing the F4500 turns out to be the best for your buck.
From my experience in a store there is no PQ difference between the two and the F4500 might be better after calibration.
In my opinion, you can't tell the difference between 720p or 1080p from an 8 foot viewing distance with a 43" or 51". The resolution difference is only worth it if you are sitting closer to the plasma. Save your money and get the 4500.
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post #820 of 822 Old Today, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Lion Rider View Post
The best way to see if the resolution difference is worth $180 is to watch both Tvs side by side.(propably in a store). Depending on the distance you sit from the tv then you can decide if resolution matters.
From what Josh is experiencing the F4500 turns out to be the best for your buck.
From my experience in a store there is no PQ difference between the two and the F4500 might be better after calibration.
In my opinion, you can't tell the difference between 720p or 1080p from an 8 foot viewing distance with a 43" or 51". The resolution difference is only worth it if you are sitting closer to the plasma. Save your money and get the 4500.
I just checked again. 3 of the stores (with reasonable price) ran out of the 51F4500. They said it's discontinued and being replaced by 51H4500. Anyone knows where it's similar to the F4500?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE51H4500AWXXU

I guess I'll have to compare them side by side. $180 is still very tempting for better resolution, better remote, smart functions and 3D..

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post #821 of 822 Old Today, 12:53 PM
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I just checked again. 3 of the stores (with reasonable price) ran out of the 51F4500. They said it's discontinued and being replaced by 51H4500. Anyone knows where it's similar to the F4500?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE51H4500AWXXU

I guess I'll have to compare them side by side. $180 is still very tempting for better resolution, better remote, smart functions and 3D..
H4500 is the same as F4500 featurewise, just new for 2014.
On the resolution difference it's up to you to decide if the $180 is worth it. Where I am from, without question the F4500 is the best value for money. Also here we have the H version.
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post #822 of 822 Old Today, 01:57 PM
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Originally Posted by closencounters View Post
I just checked again. 3 of the stores (with reasonable price) ran out of the 51F4500. They said it's discontinued and being replaced by 51H4500. Anyone knows where it's similar to the F4500?

http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE51H4500AWXXU

I guess I'll have to compare them side by side. $180 is still very tempting for better resolution, better remote, smart functions and 3D..
$180 more is not bad for what is essentially a "3D Smart" F5300... but, if you are not worried about Smart function and 3D, you would be better served to buy a vanilla 5300 (or 4500) and a decent Smart Blu -Ray player.

If you put them side by side, at least in the showroom, you'll likely choose the 5500. The bright lights seem to magnify the resolution deficit of the 4500. At home, you'll never know the difference unless you are less than 5 feet from the sets.

They are both great sets. Good luck!
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