Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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post #991 of 1213 Old 10-15-2014, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
hmm, for cable setting YCC 4:4:4 and hdmi bl low should work well considering cable is sent at 16-235 range.
Double check my post, when cable output is set to YCC 444, the HDMI BL is grayed out and doesn't allow it to be changed.
Its like this:
1) Cable output YCC 444, TV HDMI BL grayed out.
2) Cable output RGB, TV HDMI BL can be set to low or normal.

#1 (YCC 444) and #2 ( RGB with BL low) look the same, so not sure if one is preferred.

Last edited by FAUguy; 10-15-2014 at 01:47 PM.
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post #992 of 1213 Old 10-15-2014, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Double check my post, when cable output is set to YCC 444, the HDMI BL is grayed out and doesn't allow it to be changed.
Its like this:
1) Cable output YCC 444, TV HDMI BL grayed out.
2) Cable output RGB, TV HDMI BL can be set to low or normal.

#1 (YCC 444) and #2 ( RGB with BL low) look the same, so not sure if one is preferred.
Stick with #1
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post #993 of 1213 Old 10-15-2014, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Just to see, I gave these calibrated settings a try today, and they look good (better than 22point8) in Movie mode, even though it's for the F5300.

Samsung PN60F5300 calibration settings?
Well, after watching HD Cable ans BluRay with these F5300 settings for 2 days, not really liking them on the F4500. So reverted back.
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post #994 of 1213 Old 10-15-2014, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
Well, after watching HD Cable ans BluRay with these F5300 settings for 2 days, not really liking them on the F4500. So reverted back.
Have you tried Bizzaro's on page 8? I was happy with his for a while before I ultimately settled on 22point8's latest ones.
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post #995 of 1213 Old 10-15-2014, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
Have you tried Bizzaro's on page 8? I was happy with his for a while before I ultimately settled on 22point8's latest ones.
No, I hadn't seen those, will give it a try.
But I've noticed with moth peoples color space settings, that people look a bit greenish/clammy, not a natural skin color.
It might me since my unit has an August build date with 1006 firmware...maybe some color settings were altered internally in the firmware from earlier ones.
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post #996 of 1213 Old 10-16-2014, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
Have you tried Bizzaro's on page 8? I was happy with his for a while before I ultimately settled on 22point8's latest ones.
I tried Bizzaros setting last night and today, and didn't care for the way it changed the skin tones to very pale, people looked sick.
So went back to either using default setting or 22point8.
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post #997 of 1213 Old 10-16-2014, 03:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
I tried Bizzaros setting last night and today, and didn't care for the way it changed the skin tones to very pale, people looked sick.
So went back to either using default setting or 22point8.
So which settings were the ones that produced the opaque dark grays in dark scenes? Was there something we were not doing right in using those settings?

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #998 of 1213 Old 10-16-2014, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by jer88 View Post
I fiddled with the picture settings for months on my 43" and 51" 4500. I was having trouble because I copied the Custom Color Space and White Balance settings that have been posted to this thread. They looked awful at my home. All this plasma needs is a few minor tweaks for a gorgeous picture. Here are my final settings.


Picture Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast:95
Brightness: 48
Sharpness: 15
Color:50
Tint (G/R): G50/R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced Settings

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Color Space: Custom
R 40 3 2
G 25 49 2
B 0 2 47
Y 50 50 2
C 26 49 50
M 39 5 48
2pt White Balance: Default
Gamma: -1
Motion Lighting: Off

Picture Options

Color Tone: Warm 1
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter:Off
Film Mode: Off
Black Optimizer: Dark Room

Turn all Eco Settings to Off.
I used these settings and the image on my TV looks very solid. The only trouble I am having is when I watch hockey games which is fairly often. The whites on the jerseys are fine but the ice looks very dull and not as light/white as it does on my other plasma televisions. Does anyone have any ideas on how to fix this issue for me? Overall love the TV so far can't beat it for $399.
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post #999 of 1213 Old 10-16-2014, 05:07 PM
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If you change the Color Tone from Warm 1 to Standard, the ice will look bright white. For most content, it's recommended to leave it on Warm 1 or Warm 2.
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post #1000 of 1213 Old 10-16-2014, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
So which settings were the ones that produced the opaque dark grays in dark scenes? Was there something we were not doing right in using those settings?
I think it was because the set was still breaking in, its now at 160hrs, and that I was comparing the colors and black level PQ to my Panasonic HDTV CRT. The CRT appears to have better black, since the plasma screen always has a charge and it doesn't appear as pure black as the CRT.
But I tried 22point8's settings today and they look better now (probably since the set it more broken in) - or to use your setting recommendations.

Last edited by FAUguy; 10-18-2014 at 09:14 PM.
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post #1001 of 1213 Old 10-18-2014, 07:18 PM
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For those with new sets, let the tv settle for a few hundred hours before calibration.
On a lighter note if you are in this thread it's because you care about PQ so take a little time and download the free AVS 709 file to help in the picture settings setup.
Out of my own experience even if you copy someones setting the grayscale steps pattern in this file helps atleast to show how well the grayscale is. I stand to be corrected but if your greyscale is not right then your PQ will have issues.
After looking through this and other samsung plasma threads starting from 2012 I can see a pattern for what most people settings are.

Picture mode: Movie
Cell light: 20
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 44 to 46
Color: 50
Tint: 50/50
Colorspace: Auto/Custom
Color Temp: Warm 2 or Warm1
Gamma: -1 or 0
All the other picture enhancement settings off. Majority have come to agree that all what these settings do is to destroy the PQ instead of adding anything of value.
Now the 2 point white balance which I believe is one of the most important setting as it determines how your grayscale behaves, most say unless you have a meter leave it at default.
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post #1002 of 1213 Old 10-18-2014, 09:14 PM
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Between trying the two Picture Modes (Standard and Movie) even when using other suggested settings in here, it always seems that Standard produces a "cleaner" image, while Movie produced a softer "fuzzier" image. Is this intended?
For now, I'm using Standard when watching cable on HDMI 1, and Movie with BluRay on HDMI 2.
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post #1003 of 1213 Old 10-19-2014, 08:12 AM
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I also feel standard is sharper than movie mode.
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post #1004 of 1213 Old 10-19-2014, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by reds75 View Post
I also feel standard is sharper than movie mode.
It makes me wonder what does the "Movie" mode do to soften the image. Even if I turn up the sharpness setting, it still looks like there is a veil in front of the image making it look a bit soft and fuzzy.
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post #1005 of 1213 Old 10-19-2014, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by FAUguy View Post
It makes me wonder what does the "Movie" mode do to soften the image. Even if I turn up the sharpness setting, it still looks like there is a veil in front of the image making it look a bit soft and fuzzy.
I think it has to do with standard mode being inhertintly brighter which gives the impression of being sharper. Do you watch your set in a dark room? If you watch movie mode for a few days in the right viewing environment it appears incredibly sharp.
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post #1006 of 1213 Old 10-19-2014, 09:50 PM
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I don't notice any softness on my Movie mode setting, infact I have my Sharpness at 4 and sometimes I see as if I need to lower it.
Using movie mode setting for me means less drastic movement of the main settings.

Last edited by Lion Rider; 10-19-2014 at 10:30 PM.
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post #1007 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by jtmarten View Post
Pulled the trigger last night on the PN51F4500. Just a tad over $450 with a 3yr service contract ($38) and tax.
Will set it up tonight. I probably won't make any real display adjustments until it's had a couple hundred hours of burn in time, after that I'll peruse this entire thread for setup options.
The only spoiler will be if it has any buzz due to my elevation (7300ft).
Ok, I've had the 4500 for a while now. There is absolutely no buzz at 7300ft. The only picture adjustment I've made is increasing the cell brightness to 16. It has a very good picture as-is. The only thing I really......hate, is the lack of anti-reflective coating on the glass. My Panasonic Vierra had it, and it makes a huge difference if watching TV with moderate ambient light. My great room has three, roughly 6'x2' windows facing the West (nice view of Pikes Peak!), and it's difficult to keep the late afternoon sun out of the picture. I may end up sourcing a good HDMI board for the Panny, and relegating the 4500 to basement duty. I'll have the next 6-7mo of early darkness to decide. Interior lights aren't an issue; I have a few LED smart-lamps (programmable, Wi-Fi controlled), and have a program set for good TV ambiance.
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post #1008 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 12:39 PM
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I used Standard for a few months just because it was brighter. I recently switched to Movie and immediately noticed it was more accurate with deeper black levels.
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post #1009 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 03:36 PM
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The other day I spend the whole day experimenting with various test patterns to work out the best way to set the gamma (this is probably the cause of the mist of most effect you might be seeing). I think most of the problem was to do with the bt1886 gamma using the 10 point to alter gamma at each point and although it added a layer of detail over peoples faces where shadows fall and you can make out freckles, in other situations it does seem to mist things up.

I think the nature of plasma technology makes seeing gamma correctly virtually impossible. The best I could thing of was the PC mode at default looks best and the gamma is at 0.

Across any patterns colour reads the same, white balance is under 3dE in almost all circumstances too.

The patterns I used included 6.5% area windows on black background that THX apparently use, and a 5% area window on a 22% grey background (kind of a plasma torture test), both had a 2.22 gamma with the setting at 0. The difference being black measures 10 times lighter on the grey background (0.06 compared to 0.0068). 0.06 is pretty much good LCD black levels so I guess the 4500/4900 can maintain a 2.2 gamma across various situations but also behaves like a CRT.

The cinema smooth mode 96hz means you need to reduce brightness a few clicks, has horrible dithering and it's debatable whether it's better than just leaving it off and the panel displaying film like a CRT does. It also measured drastically worse white balance, but slightly better black (0.05) on the grey background patterns.

The bizarre thing is on a ANSI test which has 50% of the screen white can still have a black of 0.015cdm²

Apparently Samsungs behave this way but a Panasonic or Pioneer would measure the same black regardless of patterns used.

My advice is leave gamma at 0, and PC is the best preset out of the box (but then I mostly play PS3).
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post #1010 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 05:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

The other day I spend the whole day experimenting with various test patterns to work out the best way to set the gamma (this is probably the cause of the mist of most effect you might be seeing). I think most of the problem was to do with the bt1886 gamma using the 10 point to alter gamma at each point and although it added a layer of detail over peoples faces where shadows fall and you can make out freckles, in other situations it does seem to mist things up.

I think the nature of plasma technology makes seeing gamma correctly virtually impossible. The best I could thing of was the PC mode at default looks best and the gamma is at 0.

Across any patterns colour reads the same, white balance is under 3dE in almost all circumstances too.

The patterns I used included 6.5% area windows on black background that THX apparently use, and a 5% area window on a 22% grey background (kind of a plasma torture test), both had a 2.22 gamma with the setting at 0. The difference being black measures 10 times lighter on the grey background (0.06 compared to 0.0068). 0.06 is pretty much good LCD black levels so I guess the 4500/4900 can maintain a 2.2 gamma across various situations but also behaves like a CRT.

The cinema smooth mode 96hz means you need to reduce brightness a few clicks, has horrible dithering and it's debatable whether it's better than just leaving it off and the panel displaying film like a CRT does. It also measured drastically worse white balance, but slightly better black (0.05) on the grey background patterns.

The bizarre thing is on a ANSI test which has 50% of the screen white can still have a black of 0.015cdm²

Apparently Samsungs behave this way but a Panasonic or Pioneer would measure the same black regardless of patterns used.

My advice is leave gamma at 0, and PC is the best preset out of the box (but then I mostly play PS3).
I can't use PC mode when I watch ota since I have the cable go from the antenna directly into the TV

Do you think you will try to calibrate the set again with a 2.22 gamma target?
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post #1011 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 05:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
I can't use PC mode when I watch ota since I have the cable go from the antenna directly into the TV

Do you think you will try to calibrate the set again with a 2.22 gamma target?
Just leaving gamma at 0 would get you 2.22 with the 6.5% windows or 5% windows with 22% APL. PC mode has a gamma of 2.17 with 10% windows.
With OTA find a movie with black bars top and bottom and adjust the brightness so there isn't any dither in them.

I'll post some charts at some point and show the readings.

In movie mode I used the 10 point for white balance only (didn't adjust all three up/down together to change gamma).

Standard doesn't have 10 point so I only made a tiny gain adjustment.

Black optimiser auto has the best contrast ratio, but compromises 90 and 100% white, so if you don't need the extra light output use dark room, it also depends what you're watching, it might help people's Ice Hockey a bit but because of ABL a almost full white screen will always look dull.
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post #1012 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 05:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Just leaving gamma at 0 would get you 2.22 with the 6.5% windows or 5% windows with 22% APL. PC mode has a gamma of 2.17 with 10% windows.
With OTA find a movie with black bars top and bottom and adjust the brightness so there isn't any dither in them.

I'll post some charts at some point and show the readings.

In movie mode I used the 10 point for white balance only (didn't adjust all three up/down together to change gamma).

Standard doesn't have 10 point so I only made a tiny gain adjustment.

Black optimiser auto has the best contrast ratio, but compromises 90 and 100% white, so if you don't need the extra light output use dark room, it also depends what you're watching, it might help people's Ice Hockey a bit but because of ABL a almost full white screen will always look dull.
Okay so correct me of I'm wrong. Your movie settings are still valid, just change gamma from -1 to 0?
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post #1013 of 1213 Old 10-20-2014, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Michael Vincent Praino View Post
Okay so correct me of I'm wrong. Your movie settings are still valid, just change gamma from -1 to 0?
Just use standard for now, or disable 10 point and change gamma.
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post #1014 of 1213 Old 10-21-2014, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Just use standard for now, or disable 10 point and change gamma.
Standard seems to do the job for now, I assume you used Warm2 for color temp as well.

I want to thank you again for always being forthcoming with your settings/incites. I don't have much time or $ to learn how to properly calibrate a set and settings like yours provide me with a happy compromise of quality:effort
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post #1015 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 01:10 AM
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22point8 (& others),

I just picked up a PN51F4500BFXZA from BestBuy and so far am impressed for money!

I was wondering what your recommendation would be though..the TV will be hooked up to my Denon 1610 receiver and mostly Roku type streaming media will be played (some kids games as well) through the receiver, then to the TV obviously with HDMI.

Do you think I should go with Standard or Movie setting?
Should I adjust white balance like you said in an earlier post?
Adjust RGB?

Any specific recommendations that you have settled on would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much,
Dustin
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post #1016 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 07:03 AM
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Originally Posted by bltoe View Post
22point8 (& others),

I just picked up a PN51F4500BFXZA from BestBuy and so far am impressed for money!

I was wondering what your recommendation would be though..the TV will be hooked up to my Denon 1610 receiver and mostly Roku type streaming media will be played (some kids games as well) through the receiver, then to the TV obviously with HDMI.

Do you think I should go with Standard or Movie setting?
Should I adjust white balance like you said in an earlier post?
Adjust RGB?

Any specific recommendations that you have settled on would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks much,
Dustin
While 22Point8 is reworking his gamma/10 PWB settings, he recommended the following:

Picture Mode: Movie
Cell Light: 20
Contrast:95
Brightness: 45
Sharpness: 5
Colour:50
Tint (G/R): G50/R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced Settings

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone:-1
RGB Only Mode: Off
Colour Space: Custom

Custom:
Red: R47 G6 B0
Green: R13 G50 B0
Blue: R0 G02 B53
Yellow: R50 G51 B3
Cyan: R9 G48 B49
Magenta: R49 G5 B51

White Balance:
R Offset: 27
G Offset: 23
B Offset: 26
R Gain: 25
G Gain: 25
B Gain: 25

10p White Balance = off

Gamma: 0

Picture Options:
Colour Tone: Warm 2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter:Off
Film Mode: Auto 2
Black Optimiser: Auto


You can also try some other settings like Bizarro_Stormy's on page 8.
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post #1017 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 08:54 AM
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Thanks so much! I really appreciate you condensing that info for me. It was getting confusing

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post #1018 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by bltoe View Post
Thanks so much! I really appreciate you condensing that info for me. It was getting confusing

Dustin
On second thought, since you are using HDMI, you might have the best results with PC mode. On your remote press "source" -> navigate to the hdmi port in use -> press "tools" -> "edit" -> navigate to "PC." Then apply the following settings:

Picture Mode: Standard
Cell Light: 20
Contrast:95
Brightness: 47
Sharpness: 50
Colour:50
Tint (G/R): G50/R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit

Advanced Settings

Dynamic Contrast: Off
Black Tone: Off
Flesh Tone: 0
RGB Only Mode: Off
Colour Space: Native

White Balance:

R Offset: 24
G Offset: 23
B Offset: 25
R Gain: 24
G Gain: 25
B Gain: 25

Picture Options

Colour Tone: Warm 2
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Film Mode: Off
Black Optimiser: Off

Gamma: 0
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post #1019 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 10:35 AM
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Excellent thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely give those a try, see how things look, and report back..

Dustin
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post #1020 of 1213 Old 10-22-2014, 10:44 AM
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Excellent thanks for the suggestions! I will definitely give those a try, see how things look, and report back..

Dustin
Thank 22point8. I take no credit for these settings
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