Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 37 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1081 of 1529 Old 11-01-2014, 09:21 AM
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@22point8 , I believe these Tvs are underestimated & ignored for their perceived low resolution.
Reflection wise as long as there is no direct light hitting the screen for me it's not a problem. I have two side lamps with a dimmer and LED backlights and the effect on the tv is so awesome. No reflections and the contrast is really deep.
The secret here is no direct light to the screen which applies to all tvs with glass panels.
Have you also noted some crispness when watching during the day? It's something I can't get, maybe lack of the filters..
Have also noted, unless you have a very very good camera, any pics taken of tv in action during the day will exaggerate the reflections.
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post #1082 of 1529 Old 11-01-2014, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lion Rider View Post
@22point8 , I believe these Tvs are underestimated & ignored for their perceived low resolution.
Reflection wise as long as there is no direct light hitting the screen for me it's not a problem. I have two side lamps with a dimmer and LED backlights and the effect on the tv is so awesome. No reflections and the contrast is really deep.
The secret here is no direct light to the screen which applies to all tvs with glass panels.
Have you also noted some crispness when watching during the day? It's something I can't get, maybe lack of the filters..
Have also noted, unless you have a very very good camera, any pics taken of tv in action during the day will exaggerate the reflections.
This is the product page of the 4900
http://www.samsung.com/ie/consumer/t...PS43F4900AKXXU

The H4500
http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/t...PE43H4500AWXXU

I think the filter might be unique to the 4900, it's such a shame these excellent TV's are overlooked just based on resolution. If I ever saw a HD CRT, I imagine these TV's are the closest thing to them without the weight, depth and geometry problems. CRT consumer models couldn't resolve more than 300 lines of resolution, my 24 year old PVM with 600 line resolution can show any flaws in DVD.

The resolution is pretty much meaningless unless you're sat close enough to see individual pixels or the pixel structure.

Mine is just as clear in the day or with lights on as with the blind shut, curtains drawn and lights off.

Light On

Lights Off

Light On

Light Off

Light On

Light Off


Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Blu-ray

Last edited by 22point8; 11-01-2014 at 12:54 PM.
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post #1083 of 1529 Old 11-01-2014, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

I If I ever saw a HD CRT, I imagine these TV's are the closest thing to them without the weight, depth and geometry problems. CRT consumer models couldn't resolve more than 300 lines of resolution, my 24 year old PVM with 600 line resolution can show any flaws in DVD.
You are correct, and Ive said the same several times throughout this thread. Prior to my first F4500, my previous gaming and living room sets were goliath 32" and 36" HD CRT's. They put out phenomenal pictures, but the 4500's are even better due to the lack of color bleed and perfect uniformity. The 4500 more closely resembles their picture output than any other HD set Ive ever seen, and that includes Panasonics own 720p TC-P50X60.

I basically lucked out by picking my first 4500 from a local Walmart-- the size and price and the fact it was plasma is what lured me in, but the hook was what it looked like when I connected a Wii system via component video in the store. It blew all the 1080p LCDs that surrounded it away (and thats in the brightly lit store!). I actually WANTED something as close to my HD CRTs as possible, and it delivered-- I truly believe its the closest you can get in any plasma or LCD set.

When I got it home I was blown away, there was no going back to anything else. I made the perfect purchase for what I was looking for-- not even the high dollar plasmas looked as good with the retro-game systems as this baby. Such a shame they have ceased production as of this month....

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


Last edited by Josh128; 11-01-2014 at 02:19 PM.
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post #1084 of 1529 Old 11-02-2014, 06:30 AM
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Had a scare this morning on my original F4500. My daughter was playing NES on it, and I noticed the audio was cutting out briefly about every second or so. First thing I did was check the NES, which I heavy modified by installing a NESRGB board. Played with all the connections, no difference. Then I proceeded to fire up all the other systems in my TV stand-- they all had the audio blips.

The only thing common to all of them was my Audio Authority component switch and the TV itself. I eliminated the switch by plugging the audio from one of the systems direct to the TV. Same problem.

So I powered down the set, powered it back on. Audio ran good for 10 or 15 seconds, then started to blip again. At this point I started to panic. I then decided to switch inputs on the TV from component to HDMI and checked the audio from my HDMI OTA box. It was good. Switched back to component and held my breath-- audio sounded good, no more blips. My daughter played for an hour or so, no blips.

Hope this is just a glitch and not a sign of something worse. These come with a 1 year factory warranty right? I have about 20 days (Black Friday) left on the warranty. Hopefully it was just some sort of glitch.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1085 of 1529 Old 11-02-2014, 12:10 PM
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Latest e450 settings
Contrast 95-100 as long as it doesn't turn pink
Bright 47-50
Sharp 30-40 anything lower blurs it too much
Color51(edit about 50 for auto colorspace)
Tint 50/50
Colorspace native
White balance put screen washer up and made same color as iPad(edit ipad2 which is too blue) showing a d65 grayscale from google images,but reduced blue(Turns it more yellow) and add more red.Bias for darks and gain for brights.
Gamma 0
All the extra stuff turned off

Ycc 444 and native(1080i if you don't have native) from box ,and selecting 720p 480p 1080i.

Ive Tried every combination I can

Last edited by Vic12345; 11-07-2014 at 11:31 PM.
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post #1086 of 1529 Old 11-02-2014, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vic12345 View Post
Latest e450 settings
Contrast 95-100 as long as it doesn't turn pink
Bright 47-50
Sharp 30-40 anything lower blurs it too much
Color51
Tint 50/50
Colorspace native
White balance put screen washer up and made same color as iPad showing a d65 grayscale from google images,but reduced blue(Turns it more yellow) and add more red.Bias for darks and gain for brights.
Gamma 0
All the extra stuff turned off

Ycc 444 and native(1080i if you don't have native) from box ,and selecting 720p 480p 1080i.

Ive Tried every combination I can
I think you meant to post your settings on the thread for the E450.

Samsung 2012 PNxxE450 Thread
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post #1087 of 1529 Old 11-05-2014, 08:53 AM
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I agree the F4500 plasmas most closely resemble a widescreen version of an HD CRT, with the glossy glass screen. Which is what I like about them. I think the picture quality is excellent, and best for OTA antenna reception, as well as cable or satellite. And a great value for the price.
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post #1088 of 1529 Old 11-05-2014, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
You are correct, and Ive said the same several times throughout this thread. Prior to my first F4500, my previous gaming and living room sets were goliath 32" and 36" HD CRT's. They put out phenomenal pictures, but the 4500's are even better due to the lack of color bleed and perfect uniformity. The 4500 more closely resembles their picture output than any other HD set Ive ever seen, and that includes Panasonics own 720p TC-P50X60.

I basically lucked out by picking my first 4500 from a local Walmart-- the size and price and the fact it was plasma is what lured me in, but the hook was what it looked like when I connected a Wii system via component video in the store. It blew all the 1080p LCDs that surrounded it away (and thats in the brightly lit store!). I actually WANTED something as close to my HD CRTs as possible, and it delivered-- I truly believe its the closest you can get in any plasma or LCD set.

When I got it home I was blown away, there was no going back to anything else. I made the perfect purchase for what I was looking for-- not even the high dollar plasmas looked as good with the retro-game systems as this baby. Such a shame they have ceased production as of this month....
I see you have both an A and B version of the F4500. I believe the general consensus is that the B version has better picture quality and calibrations. Do you agree? I have the B version with the TS02 panel. What panel does the A version have?
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post #1089 of 1529 Old 11-05-2014, 10:48 AM
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I have a 43" A version and 51" B version of the 4500. I can't tell any difference in picture quality between the two. They are both outstanding for the ridiculously low price I paid for them.
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post #1090 of 1529 Old 11-05-2014, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tylerSC View Post
I see you have both an A and B version of the F4500. I believe the general consensus is that the B version has better picture quality and calibrations. Do you agree? I have the B version with the TS02 panel. What panel does the A version have?
I have not had pro-cals done, but I ran the Disney WOW DVD on both of them and they produced essentially identical settings.

Honestly, I have yet to see anything on the BFXA model that looks any better than the AFXA model I bought almost exactly a year ago (last years Black Friday). I have PCs, game systems, and OTA HD connected to both of them. The AFXA looks fantastic and is what really turned me on to plasma sets after I brought it home last year.

The ONLY difference I have noticed, strange as it sounds, is that the Samsung splash logo you see upon bootup somehow looks a little different on the BFXA model. Its the same splash logo, but its pixel structure appears every so slightly different, almost like some faint horizontal lines are visible in the B model that you dont see in the A model. Not sure why this is, but at least to me, its noticable, barely.

For real content though, I can see no difference whatsoever. As for the panels, I'll have to go check on that.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


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post #1091 of 1529 Old 11-06-2014, 06:29 AM
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Apparently the difference between the A and B models is more noticeable regarding picture quality on the F5300 models. I have a 60 inch version of the 5300 still new in the box, but I plan to get a B model soon and possibly sell the A model. And they say the 60 inch 5300s are a bit more similar to the 4500 because of the Pentile screen.
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post #1092 of 1529 Old 11-06-2014, 01:15 PM
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Clicking Noise

I've only had my PN51F4500 for 2 weeks. For the last week and a half, every once in a while, I've been hearing a clicking noise as if the TV is turning on even though it's already on. I called Samsung today and they are going to have someone come out and repair it. Have any of you experienced this?
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post #1093 of 1529 Old 11-06-2014, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
I've only had my PN51F4500 for 2 weeks. For the last week and a half, every once in a while, I've been hearing a clicking noise as if the TV is turning on even though it's already on. I called Samsung today and they are going to have someone come out and repair it. Have any of you experienced this?
I have 2 51's, one of them almost exactly a year old, and have never experienced such an issue.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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post #1094 of 1529 Old 11-07-2014, 06:52 AM
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As far as copying settings goes, patching them together and then tweaking them a little, these following ones has given me fairly pleasing results. Using them in standard mode as I wanna leave movie mode open for more foolish experimentation.

Picture Mode: Standard
Cell Light: 16
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0-10
Color: 44
Tint: G50/R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Film mode: Disabled
Black optimizer: Auto
HDMI black level: Low

Gamma: -1

Color tone: Standard
'Havent really been able to replicate the results of these using Warm2, so I left them as is.'

White Balance:
R-Offset: 23, G-Offset: 25, B-Offset: 8
R-Gain: 23, G-Gain: 29, B-Gain: 13

Color Space: Custom
Red: R:40,G:3,B:2
Green: R:25,G:49,B:2
Blue: R:0,G:2,B:47
Yellow: R:50,G:50,B:2
Cyan: R:26,G:49,B:50
Magenta: R:39,G:5,B:48

My UK model of the PN51F4500 has a heavy red push with any default settings using Warm 2. Took me a while to notice how severe it was, and
its especially noticeable using simple greyscale patterns.

Bizarro Stormy and EatStatic14 ( post 231 and 554 ) both share very similar settings and seem to deal with things being overly red, though it does
come across a bit on the green side instead. In the end I'll probably use a variation of their settings and call it a day.

Last edited by Zarlence; 11-10-2014 at 01:48 PM.
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post #1095 of 1529 Old 11-07-2014, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Zarlence View Post
As far as copying settings goes, patching them together and then tweaking them a little, these following ones has given me fairly pleasing results. Using them in standard mode as I wanna leave movie mode open for more foolish experimentation.

Picture Mode: Standard
Cell Light: 16
Contrast: 95
Brightness: 44
Sharpness: 0-10
Color: 44
Tint: G50/R50

Picture Size: Screen Fit
Dynamic contrast: Off
Black tone: Off
Flesh tone: 0
Digital Clean View: Off
MPEG Noise Filter: Off
Film mode: Disabled
Black optimizer: Auto
HDMI black level: Low

Gamma: -1

Color tone: Standard
'Havent really been able to replicate the results of these using Warm2, so I left them as is.'

White Balance:
R-Offset: 23, G-Offset: 25, B-Offset: 8
R-Gain: 23, G-Gain: 29, B-Gain: 13

Color Space: Custom
Red: R:40,G:3,B:2
Green: R:25,G:49,B:2
Blue: R:0,G:2,B:47
Yellow: R:50,G:50,B:2
Cyan: R:26,G:49,B:50
Magenta: R:39,G:5,B:48

My UK model of the PN51F4500 has a heavy red push with any default settings using Warm 2. Took me a while to notice out how severe it was, and
its especially noticeable using simple greyscale patterns.

Bizarro Stormy and EatStatic14 ( post 231 and 554 ) both share very similar settings and seem to deal with things being overly red, though it does
come across a bit on the green side instead. In the end I'll probably use a variation of their settings and call it a day.
The gains and offsets are wrongly named, try Warm 2 25/25/25/21/25/25, thats probably as close as you can get without a meter. Try using a grey steps pattern or the built in 'expert pattern 1' and see if Red Gain is altering the low end.

Those CMS settings look like they started at colour=50 in standard, what they should have done is start at 50 in movie, then reduce the colour control in standard mode either using the blue only mode or with a meter to determine what that number should be. If you try the other way round you would need to go up to 60+ in movie, and it still wouldn't track correctly.

Colour 51 (standard 44)/Flesh Tone -2
r49/10/6
g14/50/2
b7/9/50
y50/49/0
c12/49/49
m50/0/51

colorchecker type/average dE2000/max dE2000
SKIN (24 patches) 0.82/1.41
GCD (24 patches) 0.83/2.41
CCSG (96 patches) 1.00/2.85
USER (551 patches) 0.85/3.14

Alternatively, if you're using a PS3/PS4/PC/Chromecast or similar, just use the PC Mode with Warm 2 and 25/25/25/21/25/25. Then use the browser to visit http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/black.php and use brightness to make box 1 invisible. Depending on the device you might need to adjust [HDMI Black] Even though most of the options are greyed out I got these results (albeit with my own white balance settings of 25/24/26/22/26/25).

colorchecker type/average dE2000/max dE2000
SKIN (24 patches) 1.22/2.86
GCD (24 patches) 1.07/2.19
CCSG (96 patches) 1.11/2.27
USER (551 patches) 1.09/2.57

In conclusion: Warm 2 & 25/25/25/21/25/25 is the baseline (if red gain is altering to darker shades of grey because its misnamed), all the CMS Settings will mostly amount to the same results (depending on the 'colour' they were set at, the ones you posted above look fine if you have colour=50 in standard). 10 point white balance isn't as copyable a setting because its more of a fine tune.
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post #1096 of 1529 Old 11-07-2014, 08:40 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Colour 51 (standard 44)/Flesh Tone -2
r49/10/6
g14/50/2
b7/9/50
y50/49/0
c12/49/49
m50/0/51

(25/24/26/22/26/25).
These look different from your latest posted offsets - have you calibrated further?

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post #1097 of 1529 Old 11-07-2014, 10:19 AM
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I have had tv for a year now. Never any clicking sounds.
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post #1098 of 1529 Old 11-07-2014, 02:47 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
The gains and offsets are wrongly named, try Warm 2 25/25/25/21/25/25, thats probably as close as you can get without a meter. Try using a grey steps pattern or the built in 'expert pattern 1' and see if Red Gain is altering the low end.
The most straightforward way to mostly remove that red push I mentioned using Warm2, is if I lower the Red Offset to 13. The Red Gain doesnt do much to help here.

I think my set share characteristics with the plasmas owned by Bizzaro Stormy and Eatstatic14. That said, your CMS settings do work rather nicely with the settings I posted earlier. It certainly makes for a more vibrant look. Guess I'll continue to tinker... taking shots in the dark.
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post #1099 of 1529 Old 11-08-2014, 04:53 PM
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I have had tv for a year now. Never any clicking sounds.
If this is rare I'm debating on exchanging this tv for another brand new F4500 at bestbuy. I haven't had the TV more than 30 days.

Samsung is sending a TV repair Friday. Not sure how good or repetuble they are though.
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post #1100 of 1529 Old 11-08-2014, 10:28 PM
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Are you sure it's not the cablebox? Cable box here clicks but it's not any problem.
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post #1101 of 1529 Old 11-10-2014, 06:51 AM
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Are you sure it's not the cablebox? Cable box here clicks but it's not any problem.
Yeah, I'm sure it's not the Cable box.
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post #1102 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 12:45 PM
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Since this seems to be a rare occurrence I just went ahead and exchanged it for another 51F4500. Best Buy was kind enough to allow me too even though I was 2 days beyond the 15 day return policy.
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post #1103 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 12:52 PM
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This is kinda urgent. I somehow managed to change a setting(s) in the service menu of my PN51f4500. Everything was messed up for a while (the Type was changed resulting in everything garbled and flipped vertically), but I can at least read it now. Could somebody please take a photo or write down the settings on the main service menu screen, and also maybe the options screen? This is what mine looks like at the moment:

EDIT: Nevermind, can't post photos. Still, a photo of yours would be very much appreciated.

Thank you so much in advance. This is not what I wanted to deal with today, but it's my own fault for opening the service menu (I was only trying to see how many hours the unit had been in operation, which I didn't even find!).

PS I think the software model is def wrong. I switched it to PF4500, which sounds like my model.

Here's what the settings are now on the option screen:
Type: 51HFHc
Local Set: US
SW Model: PF4500
BOM Model: 4500
Tuner: S_TC

EDIT: I switched the Type to 51HHHc. My rationale is that there is a 43HHHc and 51HHHc, and there's a 51HFHc, 60HFHc, and 64HFHc. I think HHHc corresponds to 720p panels, while HFHc corresponds to 1080P panels.

I'd still love someone to take a picture of the main service menu. I'm pretty sure I only messed up the option menu.

Last edited by mgridgaway; 11-11-2014 at 06:08 PM.
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post #1104 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 01:24 PM
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22point8

How far off are the default settings on movie mode compared whit your calibrated settings?

Is there that much difference in picture quality?

and another question

what do you use for watching terrestrial television. the built in dvb-t tuner or a dedicated box?
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post #1105 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trelkovsky View Post
22point8

How far off are the default settings on movie mode compared whit your calibrated settings?

Is there that much difference in picture quality?

and another question

what do you use for watching terrestrial television. the built in dvb-t tuner or a dedicated box?
I use the built in tuner, the key reason I went for the F4900 over the slightly cheaper F4500 was that it had a DVB-T2 tuner so its more future proof and its the only way to get HD ota in the UK (H.264 1080 50i/25p). I think a dedicated box might be better if you can force it to 1080i though, that's because everything SD is overscanned (4.5% horizontal/3.5% vertical) with no option to disable like you can with over brands (e.g. Sony '+1', this also applies to component and RGB Scart, I haven't tested composite.

I don't watch any SDTV on it though, I find the really compressed MPEG-2 and overscan makes it virtually unwatchable, probably because SD was only ever designed to look good up to a screen size of 19" in the olden days, that's why the biggest most broadcast grade CRTs (Sony PVM/BVM, Ikegami, JVC, Barco) got were 19" 4:3.

On mine, movie mode out of the box had an average of 2.2 greyscale deltaE .
Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread that was 60hz

For 50hz (actually displayed at 100hz) out of the box has an average greyscale deltaE of 1.4 with a maximum of 2.3.

Custom colorspace is best even at default, auto has the luminance of each colour too high, but all deltaE are under 3 except red which is 6. Native is worst, except in PC mode where its the only option but by some miracle its better than the calibrated custom (<3dE even with 551 colour points measured).

I started on a guide the other day, but still need to gather more data, insert screenshots, make some graphs from the raw data etc.
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post #1106 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 06:26 PM
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Sorry to bug again, but would it be possible for anyone to post their service menu settings for at least the Option Menu? I'm pretty sure I got this straightened out, but I'd like to be positive. Thanks!
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post #1107 of 1529 Old 11-11-2014, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I started on a guide the other day, but still need to gather more data, insert screenshots, make some graphs from the raw data etc.
I am very excited for your guide.
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post #1108 of 1529 Old 11-12-2014, 06:21 AM
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I use the built in tuner, the key reason I went for the F4900 over the slightly cheaper F4500 was that it had a DVB-T2 tuner so its more future proof and its the only way to get HD ota in the UK (H.264 1080 50i/25p). I think a dedicated box might be better if you can force it to 1080i though, that's because everything SD is overscanned (4.5% horizontal/3.5% vertical) with no option to disable like you can with over brands (e.g. Sony '+1', this also applies to component and RGB Scart, I haven't tested composite.

I don't watch any SDTV on it though, I find the really compressed MPEG-2 and overscan makes it virtually unwatchable, probably because SD was only ever designed to look good up to a screen size of 19" in the olden days, that's why the biggest most broadcast grade CRTs (Sony PVM/BVM, Ikegami, JVC, Barco) got were 19" 4:3.
When i watch sd tv in total darkness, the defects of the signal stand out and the picture becomes grainy and harsh, whit some ambient light , the picture appears more sharp and vivid. I want to buy a led strip like this http://www.ebay.es/itm/261529316029?...84.m1438.l2649 to put it behind the tv.

Also, i have a hauppage pci dvb-tuner in my pc , ¿ its possible to get more picture quality whit this thing?


Sorry for my bad english.
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post #1109 of 1529 Old 11-12-2014, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

On mine, movie mode out of the box had an average of 2.2 greyscale deltaE .
Would be great if any other calibrators of the f4500 would post their out of the box measurement, for comparisons sake. Though now that I think about it, maybe Eatstatic14 did just that several pages back..

Did you figure out if there's an A or B model of the F4900 btw, and what panel you might have? I believe there are some reports of the F5300 B model looking great out of the box with warm 2, needing only small adjustments to hit the mark. The same could be said about your F4900, right? Of course every panel is different, but still.. Im curious
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post #1110 of 1529 Old 11-12-2014, 10:16 AM
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The F4900 only came in an 'A' model. The F series in now discontinued and unavailable to buy in the UK. The H4500 is available though, but has the same lack of DVB-T2 tuner as F4500, there's no excuse for that from a UK perspective. The F4900 is still listed as a current model in Republic of Ireland though. If I had the space I could have got another 43F4900 for only £270 in a clearance sale. Mine was made in Hungary.

I've made more progress on my guide today, still need to make some screenshots and then provide explanations but I've got how the settings work, just not the fine points.
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