Samsung PNxxF4500 Owners Thread - Page 46 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 02-25-2015, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Hey, man. No problem.

I'm using 1000 hour with no cinema smooth. I prefer to have the deeper blacks rather than smoother motion. I have some time today, so I think I will plug in the 2000 hour settings though.
I just went and looked at his 1000 hour settings again.

What does 10p White Balance do and I'm assuming yours is on? I've noticed some people leave it off, but he has them on.
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Old 02-25-2015, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Hey, man. No problem.

I'm using 1000 hour with no cinema smooth. I prefer to have the deeper blacks rather than smoother motion. I have some time today, so I think I will plug in the 2000 hour settings though.
Redone Movie calibration specificaly for people who want cinema smooth off (see pictures below).

Redone 3D for anyone with the F/H4900 (I previously used warm 2 and had to use the gains/offsets too much, this time I picked the closest colour temp preset to compensate for the 3D glasses tint, I thought it would be standard but it turned out to be warm 1).

Mainly did the 3D again because I found some in-store demo blurays for cheap (£11.45) on ebay.
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/05/06/...ents-mar-2012/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/06/05/...-blu-ray-disc/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2010/06/03/...ion-disc-v1-2/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/04/12/...stration-disc/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2013/05/14/...stration-disc/

And as a bonus, have some pictures of chameleons from this demo clip:
http://www.demo-world.eu/download-2d...ther_world.jpg
(shame my camera sucks so it can't show much better it looks).


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Last edited by 22point8; 02-25-2015 at 03:26 PM.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
Redone Movie calibration specificaly for people who want cinema smooth off (see pictures below).

Redone 3D for anyone with the F/H4900 (I previously used warm 2 and had to use the gains/offsets too much, this time I picked the closest colour temp preset to compensate for the 3D glasses tint, I thought it would be standard but it turned out to be warm 1).

Mainly did the 3D again because I found some in-store demo blurays for cheap (£11.45) on ebay.
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/05/06/...ents-mar-2012/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/06/05/...-blu-ray-disc/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2010/06/03/...ion-disc-v1-2/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2012/04/12/...stration-disc/
http://www.demo-world.eu/2013/05/14/...stration-disc/

And as a bonus, have some pictures of chameleons from this demo clip:
http://www.demo-world.eu/download-2d...ther_world.jpg
(shame my camera sucks so it can't show much better it looks).


Awesome! Thanks.

I did notice after checking my color bars in blue mode on avshd 709 that the color squares are blinking a darker shade. Should I back my color down or should I ignore it? If I did back my color down so that the color bars blended would it contradict the other settings?

Thanks again.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:17 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Awesome! Thanks.

I did notice after checking my color bars in blue mode on avshd 709 that the color squares are blinking a darker shade. Should I back my color down or should I ignore it? If I did back my color down so that the color bars blended would it contradict the other settings?

Thanks again.
I only bumped up the colour to get slightly better red saturation, if you used the colour bars it wouldn't make much of a real world difference, so see what you prefer. Also if you set colour to 0 you can check if there is any tint in the greyscale (on a tv show or film or whatever)
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by kantonburg View Post
I just went and looked at his 1000 hour settings again.

What does 10p White Balance do and I'm assuming yours is on? I've noticed some people leave it off, but he has them on.
10p white balance is just a way to further refine a calibration. Whether it's on or off depends on if the the video mode allows for the 10p scale to be calibrated. Some people just leave it at default and don't calibrate that far. It's not like an active setting, for instance a MPEG filter. So, whether the 10p is available to be calibrated or not (depending on picture modes) will not do anything to your picture unless you put numbers in there.
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Old 02-25-2015, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post
I only bumped up the colour to get slightly better red saturation, if you used the colour bars it wouldn't make much of a real world difference, so see what you prefer. Also if you set colour to 0 you can check if there is any tint in the greyscale (on a tv show or film or whatever)
Gotcha. Thanks again. I, like everyone else, appreciate all the hard work. If I had to describe these picture settings, I would have to say that it fools the eye as if you were looking through a window. Great work. I plan on getting a X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro and downloading HCFR late March. I found a guide here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 Is that a good workflow or do you know of anything better?
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Old 02-25-2015, 05:06 PM
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Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
Gotcha. Thanks again. I, like everyone else, appreciate all the hard work. If I had to describe these picture settings, I would have to say that it fools the eye as if you were looking through a window. Great work. I plan on getting a X-Rite EODIS3 i1Display Pro and downloading HCFR late March. I found a guide here: http://www.curtpalme.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10457 Is that a good workflow or do you know of anything better?
Yeah thats the guide I first used when I got an i1d2 lt, its old but still mostly relevant. HCFR can do lots more now and you don't have to worry about drivers with the eodis3. The stuff about set brightness so 10% equals 0.065% of 100% white to get 2.2 gamma is pointless though.

Anyway, I'll help out when you get round to it so I'll leave it for now or I could go on for ages.
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Old 02-25-2015, 07:01 PM
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10p white balance is just a way to further refine a calibration. Whether it's on or off depends on if the the video mode allows for the 10p scale to be calibrated. Some people just leave it at default and don't calibrate that far. It's not like an active setting, for instance a MPEG filter. So, whether the 10p is available to be calibrated or not (depending on picture modes) will not do anything to your picture unless you put numbers in there.
This setting is a new one for me. Say for instance I use @22point8 's settings for 10p. You mention video mode. If you don't mind could you explain that in a little more detail? Does that mean it may be active on Bluray, but not my cable box?
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:14 PM
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This setting is a new one for me. Say for instance I use @22point8 's settings for 10p. You mention video mode. If you don't mind could you explain that in a little more detail? Does that mean it may be active on Bluray, but not my cable box?
Instead of video mode I should have said Picture mode, which is how Samsung labels it. The 10 point greyscale is available to be calibrated using movie mode, but not in standard mode.

As far as active, I meant it's not a setting that you worry about if it's on or off like you would with Digital Clean View, Black Optimizer, ect; because it's not really on or off, its just a calibration setting. You either calibrate your 10 point greyscale or you don't. And in some cases like in Standard picture mode you can't calibrate it, because it's greyed out. So, it's not really off, it's just not able to be calibrated.

I hope this helps a little.
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Old 02-25-2015, 08:47 PM
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Instead of video mode I should have said Picture mode, which is how Samsung labels it. The 10 point greyscale is available to be calibrated using movie mode, but not in standard mode.

As far as active, I meant it's not a setting that you worry about if it's on or off like you would with Digital Clean View, Black Optimizer, ect; because it's not really on or off, its just a calibration setting. You either calibrate your 10 point greyscale or you don't. And in some cases like in Standard picture mode you can't calibrate it, because it's greyed out. So, it's not really off, it's just not able to be calibrated.

I hope this helps a little.
Sure does. I appreciate all your help.

My current Samsung Plasma doesn't have this setting, purchased in 2008. My new one is slated to arrive at the store tomorrow. We're expecting 3-8" of snow so I may wait till Friday afternoon to pick it up.
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Old 02-26-2015, 01:32 AM
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I have a PN43F4500 on its way to me now. Question: I'm going to be sitting without a couple feet, 2 or 3 at most. I'm going to use the tv for gaming, and only gaming. So my question is... How blurry or pixelized will it look sitting that close? And if it will look kinda bad, will putting it at 4:3 instead of its native widescreen make it look better since the image will be smaller (and thus need less pixels to look good?)
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:05 AM
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I have a PN43F4500 on its way to me now. Question: I'm going to be sitting without a couple feet, 2 or 3 at most. I'm going to use the tv for gaming, and only gaming. So my question is... How blurry or pixelized will it look sitting that close? And if it will look kinda bad, will putting it at 4:3 instead of its native widescreen make it look better since the image will be smaller (and thus need less pixels to look good?)
It will probably look sharper (visible pixels) than you are used to with some 1080p sets-- it definitely wont look blurrier. Here are some pictures I took of my 51", judge for yourself...

Full res album here> http://imgur.com/a/aT6lK









Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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Old 02-26-2015, 04:50 AM
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It will probably look sharper (visible pixels) than you are used to with some 1080p sets-- it definitely wont look blurrier. Here are some pictures I took of my 51", judge for yourself...


-snipped pics-
You said those are from a 51 inch. I assume those are pics from a 720p tv like the one I'm getting? If so, I should get at least better picture than that, the bigger the screen the bigger the gap between 1080p and 720p. A 43 inch 720 should look better than a 51 inch 720... If I understand tv's as well as I think I do.

So the tv should look at least okay sitting that close (2 feet or so)?
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Old 02-26-2015, 07:20 AM
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You said those are from a 51 inch. I assume those are pics from a 720p tv like the one I'm getting? If so, I should get at least better picture than that, the bigger the screen the bigger the gap between 1080p and 720p. A 43 inch 720 should look better than a 51 inch 720... If I understand tv's as well as I think I do.

So the tv should look at least okay sitting that close (2 feet or so)?
First, the pics are from the PN51F4500 BFXZA, the model this thread is about. I guess its all a matter of opinion, but this is the overall best looking display Ive personally witnessed for all game sources from 240p to 720p. For those sources, without the use of external video processors (not necessary, IMO) it is BETTER than the 1080p models.

The set looks fantastic, the pics dont even do it justice. A 43" wont look any better than this, at all. At closer distances, you will be able to distinguish individual pixels more easily, but thats it. X360, PS3 and lower systems look better on the 4500s than full 1080p sets IMO. The resolution is closer to native for those sources.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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Old 02-26-2015, 07:31 AM
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First, the pics are from the PN51F4500 BFXZA, the model this thread is about. I guess its all a matter of opinion, but this is the overall best looking display Ive personally witnessed for all game sources from 240p to 720p. For those sources, without the use of external video processors (not necessary, IMO) it is BETTER than the 1080p models.

The set looks fantastic, the pics dont even do it justice. A 43" wont look any better than this, at all. At closer distances, you will be able to distinguish individual pixels more easily, but thats it. X360, PS3 and lower systems look better on the 4500s than full 1080p sets IMO. The resolution is closer to native for those sources.
You seem to have gotten mad. I found this thread while googling about the tv model I mentioned and saw others specifically talking about the PN43 and not just the PN51. And I said mine might be better because a bigger screen equals more bloated pixels, like taking a screenshot of a 3DS game or something and blowing it up to 480p... It's the same reason I've heard that the difference between 720p and 1080p is pretty much nonexistent for an hdtv under 30 inches, smaller size makes resolution less significant. That's why I assume that being smaller should mean I can at least expect as good or better than those screenshots, my smaller screen won't need to enlarge the pixels as much as a 51 inch. Same resolution but different actual sizes should give an advantage to the smaller screen.

I'm not saying a thing about your tv or its quality. I'm just trying to figure out what mine will look like. So don't get mad or think I'm trying to be rude.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:20 AM
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You seem to have gotten mad.

I'm not saying a thing about your tv or its quality. I'm just trying to figure out what mine will look like. So don't get mad or think I'm trying to be rude.
Not at all, really--not sure how you took my response as having an angry tone. Sorry if I came off that way.

What Im trying to convey is, unless you are using a PS4/Xbone (true 1080p system), this set will create a much closer to native look for 480p and 720p systems-- and has nice interpolation for 240p as well.

A native 480p or 720p set using its respective resolution, will show some pixels-- this is not a bad thing-- its actually a good one. As for the set itself, yes, at 2 feet, on even the 43" you will be able to discern individual pixels. Again, my personal opinion is this is the best all around gaming set you can buy for image quality. Even better than the PNxxF5300 or F8500 series 1080p sets.

For a shipload of gaming pics of my 51" ers, see the following link>> http://josh128.imgur.com/all/

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA


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Old 02-26-2015, 10:35 AM
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Yeah thats the guide I first used when I got an i1d2 lt, its old but still mostly relevant. HCFR can do lots more now and you don't have to worry about drivers with the eodis3. The stuff about set brightness so 10% equals 0.065% of 100% white to get 2.2 gamma is pointless though.

Anyway, I'll help out when you get round to it so I'll leave it for now or I could go on for ages.
Sounds good thanks.
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Old 02-26-2015, 10:37 AM
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Sure does. I appreciate all your help.

My current Samsung Plasma doesn't have this setting, purchased in 2008. My new one is slated to arrive at the store tomorrow. We're expecting 3-8" of snow so I may wait till Friday afternoon to pick it up.
You will love it. The black levels are very good for this price or for any price for that matter. We just got 7.5 inches down her in North Carolina last night.
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Old 02-26-2015, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
I have a PN43F4500 on its way to me now. Question: I'm going to be sitting without a couple feet, 2 or 3 at most. I'm going to use the tv for gaming, and only gaming. So my question is... How blurry or pixelized will it look sitting that close? And if it will look kinda bad, will putting it at 4:3 instead of its native widescreen make it look better since the image will be smaller (and thus need less pixels to look good?)
Here is a good chart that I go by. Scroll down to Viewing Distance when Resolution becomes important. Chart Distance x Screen Size - Standards SMPTE and THX

That chart has been very accurate to my eyes. If you are going to be sitting 2-3 feet from the screen, I believe that it a bit too close for a 43 inch 720p set. I have the 51 inch screen and I can begin to see pixilation at around 8.5 feet. Which rings true with the chart as I would be past the full benefit of 720p for my distance. I currently sit 10.5 feet from the screen and see no pixelation.

I hope that helps.
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Old 02-26-2015, 04:35 PM
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Here is a good chart that I go by. Scroll down to Viewing Distance when Resolution becomes important.

That chart has been very accurate to my eyes. If you are going to be sitting 2-3 feet from the screen, I believe that it a bit too close for a 43 inch 720p set. I have the 51 inch screen and I can begin to see pixilation at around 8.5 feet. Which rings true with the chart as I would be past the full benefit of 720p for my distance. I currently sit 10.5 feet from the screen and see no pixelation.

I hope that helps.
Seems to me that I would need a very small tv to not have any problems sitting that close. But that's the price I guess, plasmas don't come that small and I'm not using anything less than a plasma again after realizing how crappy LEDs and LCDs are at getting you immersed in a game.
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Old 02-26-2015, 05:33 PM
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22point8-- in your 2000 hour settings I see you did not include one for component input. Do you have one, or should I just try the first HDMI one?

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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Old 02-26-2015, 05:52 PM
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22point8-- in your 2000 hour settings I see you did not include one for component input. Do you have one, or should I just try the first HDMI one?
I suppose I could hook up component cables to my ps3 and have a go, I used a pal dvd and a ps2 before. Its a chore to do without HCFRs internal pattern generator so I'll do the CMS in such a way that it has perfect primarys and secondarys but not bothering with saturation (basically a perfect cie chart but with who knows what inside) seeing as its for gaming where bright colours are a priority over absolute accuracy. I'll go for EBU colour rather than SMPTE (closer to REC709 and I don't like SMPTE red, it looks too orange for my liking!).
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Old 02-26-2015, 06:04 PM
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Thanks, looking forward to it!

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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Old 02-26-2015, 06:39 PM
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So the tv arrived... And I can't get the damn stand on. The screws that hold the base to the stand don't even remotely work, they screw in about a quarter and stop, the one time I connected the tv to the stand all it did was wobble and was literally lopsided. I suspect that the screws are wrong or something, because it just FLAT OUT doesn't make sense. Even screwing them directly into the base without the stand doesn't work, so it isn't a matter of misalignment something. And the base itself doesn't even appear to have screw grooves in the holes, which is even weirder. I'm stumped and infuriated.

I'm in a bad freaking mood tonight.
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Old 02-26-2015, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by andy6915 View Post
So the tv arrived... And I can't get the damn stand on. The screws that hold the base to the stand don't even remotely work, they screw in about a quarter and stop, the one time I connected the tv to the stand all it did was wobble and was literally lopsided. I suspect that the screws are wrong or something, because it just FLAT OUT doesn't make sense. Even screwing them directly into the base without the stand doesn't work, so it isn't a matter of misalignment something. And the base itself doesn't even appear to have screw grooves in the holes, which is even weirder. I'm stumped and infuriated.

I'm in a bad freaking mood tonight.
The "build quality" isn't superb on these TVs. The base should work fine though,... provided you can get it correctly assembled.

The base and frame on the TV are not made of hardened steel, so the screw holes can easily be stripped if you don't put the screws in straight, or if you attempt to over-tighten them. The screws need to be firmly and completely screwed into both parts though (without stripping the holes). If there's any play or "wobble" between the parts, then either the screws haven't been driven in far enough, or were driven in at a bad angle, or the screw holes have been stripped.

If this happens, my suggestion would be to back the screws out (carefully), and make sure they are going in at a perfectly straight angle. DO NOT attempt to over-tighten them though, or you'll strip the screw holes. When you feel a strong resistance, STOP TURNING! And just make sure the screws are seated firmly enough, that there is zero play between the parts. There should be notches in the parts to assist in getting them correctly lined up.

After you put the base together, make sure that the base is firmly and completely seated into the notch on the back of the TV, before you begin to screw it onto the TV, because you do not want the screws to be supporting any of the TV's weight.

All of the same caveats above apply when screwing the base into the TV. The metal frame on the TV is not made of hardened steel, so if you put the screws in at an angle or attempt to over-tighten them, then you'll probably strip the screw holes on the TV.

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Old 02-26-2015, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by ADU View Post
The "build quality" isn't superb on these TVs. The base should work fine though,... provided you can get it correctly assembled.

The base and frame on the TV are not made of hardened steel, so the screw holes can easily be stripped if you don't put the screws in straight, or if you attempt to over-tighten them. The screws need to be firmly and completely screwed into both parts though (without stripping the holes). If there's any play or "wobble" between the parts, then either the screws haven't been driven in far enough, or were driven in at a bad angle, or the screw holes have been stripped.

If this happens, my suggestion would be to back the screws out (carefully), and make sure they are going in at a perfectly straight angle. DO NOT attempt to over-tighten them though, or you'll strip the screw holes. When you feel a strong resistance, STOP TURNING! And just make sure the screws are seated firmly enough, that there is zero play between the parts. There should be notches in the parts to assist in getting them correctly lined up.

After you put the base together, make sure that the base is firmly and completely seated into the notch on the back of the TV, before you begin to screw it onto the TV, because you do not want the screws to be supporting any of the TV's weight.

All of the same caveats above apply when screwing the base into the TV. The metal frame on the TV is not made of hardened steel, so if you put the screws in at an angle or attempt to over-tighten them, then you'll probably strip the screw holes on the TV.
I put them in straight, and they only screw in a quarter... On all holes. They're so loose that the stand literally wobbles on the base when screwed in all the way (as in as far as they go without major forcing). There is no nero-play-between-parts when the screws are seated firmly.

The stand itself screws into the tv fine, no issues there.


I swear, if things go wrong and somehow the holes got stripped by me or they have a factory error... I'm drilling right through. I'll just screw right next to the holes I'm supposed to use. If that even works anyway. Or maybe I'll just buy a different stand separately.
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Old 02-27-2015, 04:03 AM
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Not 100% sure here, but if Im remembering correctly, dont those screws self-tap/thread themselves into smaller holes in the plastic? Can you tell if the holes they go in look strictly plastic, or are they threaded metal holes?

If you cant see any metal, they may thread themselves. They would be hard to start at first, then thread themselves in-- you should be OK to tighten them to the point where the bracket feels tight and firm on the panel.

I seem to remember something to that effect with most if not all 3 of my Samsung plasmas.

Displays: Samsung PN51F5300BFXA, PN51F4500AFXA, PN51F4500BFXA

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Old 02-27-2015, 04:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Josh128 View Post
Not 100% sure here, but if Im remembering correctly, dont those screws self-tap/thread themselves into smaller holes in the plastic? Can you tell if the holes they go in look strictly plastic, or are they threaded metal holes?

If you cant see any metal, they may thread themselves. They would be hard to start at first, then thread themselves in-- you should be OK to tighten them to the point where the bracket feels tight and firm on the panel.

I seem to remember something to that effect with most if not all 3 of my Samsung plasmas.
The base and the stand that attaches to the base are both plastic. I must admit, I know very little about stuff like this. I don't even fully know what threading is, though I can guess based on the wording.
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Old 02-27-2015, 05:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 22point8 View Post

Settings for HDMI 60HZ RGB/ PS3/ US TV (for 60i you might want film mode Auto 1)
Are these settings recommended for the PS3 while in PC picture mode?
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Old 02-27-2015, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by JnSJ View Post
Are these settings recommended for the PS3 while in PC picture mode?
Over at the shmups forum it was discovered that game mode does nothing (37ms input lag with leo bodnar tester) and PC was 38ms, so it depends whether you want the better black level from the black optimiser in standard, or lesser black level rise (MLL vs APL)with PC mode.

If you have an 'A' model PC is good 'out of the box', don't know about the 'B'.
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